Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[UltimateWario]

Doritos are gross. I'd rather not taste something I've eaten for the next day or two regardless of how many times I brush my teeth.

 

[Will]

Doritos are gross. I'd rather not taste something I've eaten for the next day or two regardless of how many times I brush my teeth.

Don't make me say Bag of Doritos as an item for smash.
Oh wait,I just did....fu-

 

[Louie G.]

I'd rather talk about Smash Bros (as delicious as Doritos may be).

 

[Knight Dude]

Sakurai would have thrown away Ganondorf's old move-set in Brawl if it wasn't a legitimate play-style that he introduced. He is not going to just desecrate the play-style because Ganondorf fans want him to have a more Legend of Zelda inspired move-set. So that only way to retain it and de-clone Ganondorf is to impute it to someone else. Black Shadow happens to have an immaculate build for such a notion. Not only that, but the F-Zero clone would have an F-Zero "inspired" move-set. Something many people complained about (Ganon being a clone from an entirely different series).

Well, the way you explained it was much better than mine.

Cool Ranch is best Dorito

Clearly.

I believe Ganondorf will be given some more magic related twists, but still retain the same basic play style based on Captain Falcon and that Samurai Goroh will be a little more of a mix between the two. Perhaps a faster Punch similar to the falcon punch in Smash 64, a raptor boost that uses the katana, a kick that goes straight down and bounces you up when you're already on the ground, and maybe a Samurai Dive that grabs you, but pushes you downwards.

But, Sakurai will probably think of something much better. It's a very basic move set anyway so adding twists is not difficult. I'm just being lazy.

No to him using a "Pawnch". He should use something relating to his blade.

 

[Morbi]

It's that vision that makes these games as awesome as they are. Removing characters seems to be detrimental to Sakurai's health. I rather see SSB5 & 6 include only 6 newcomers than see fighters cut. Hell, I'm more interested to see who's returning than the newcomers

Sure, that is certainly believable.

 

[Will]

I'd rather talk about Smash Bros (as delicious as Doritos may be).

We're discussing Black Shadow.
Sit down,take a dorito from our Dorito basket.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

No to him using a "Pawnch". He should use something relating to his blade.

Should, but most likely won't.

 

[BKupa666]

It's that vision that makes these games as awesome as they are. Removing characters seems to be detrimental to Sakurai's health. I rather see SSB5 & 6 include only 6 newcomers than see fighters cut. Hell, I'm more interested to see who's returning than the newcomers

That vision has made the games awesome up until now because the roster is still small enough that it can be grown without cuts, or with very few cuts. With the game's roster nearing 50 this time around, that's no longer going to be possible in the future. Add six characters to SSB6, whatever, then what are you going to do with SSB7 or 8? The roster cannot and will not expand infinitely; keeping the same cast with no character or moveset changes, sans 4-5 newcomers and some mediocre game modes certainly won't cut it.

 

[Morbi]

Should, but most likely won't.

Why can't he essentially use a Warlock Punch... but with his blade?

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Sure, that is certainly believable.

I mean come on, he apologizes thirty times in advance if he had to cut any and always states he tries his hardest to create fighters

 

[Will]

Should, but most likely won't.

You have a point. If he were to only use a sword,the only thing available for a special is just the magic electric ball.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Why can't he essentially use a Warlock Punch... but with his blade?

In his hand? Sure. Whatever makes the sword whores more pissed. Still wouldn't be as trollish as giving Goroh a sword instead of Ganondorf.

You have a point. If he were to only use a sword,the only thing available for a special is just the magic electric ball.

I was referring to Samurai Goroh.

 

[Reznor]

I'd rather talk about Smash Bros (as delicious as Doritos may be).

hes right this isn't a xbox thread

 

[Hotfeet444]

You have a point. If he were to only use a sword,the only thing available for a special is just the magic electric ball.

I think he was referencing Goroh, that and there's much more than that for Ganondorf's special set. Dead Man's Volley, Tremor Fist and Floating/Hovering are fine, while Flame Choke and his final smash is already good enough for Ganondorf.

 

[Will]

I think he was referencing Goroh, that and there's much more than that for Ganondorf's special set. Dead Man's Volley, Tremor Fist and Floating/Hovering are fine, while Flame Choke and his final smash is already good enough for Ganondorf.

I liked Flame Choke in Brawl,it was very well put for an evil and brutal villian. Okay,maybe he's not brutal,but he sure puts it up for that title.

 

[andimidna]

There's a SS stage, PH Stage, OoT Stage and MM Assist Trophy. Saying that only TP and WW is represented is not true.

You know very well I meant character-wise. Don't even...
PS... the Spirit Train is from Spirit Tracks, not Phantom Hourglass.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I liked Flame Choke in Brawl,it was very well put for an evil and brutal villian. Okay,maybe he's not brutal,but he sure puts it up for that title.

I wouldn't say Ganondorf's not brutal, seeing as he's very ruthless and has killed countless people, including one of the seven sages, which is where the inspiration for Flame Choke came from.

 

[Morbi]

You know very well I meant character-wise. Don't even...
PS... the Spirit Train is from Spirit Tracks, not Phantom Hourglass.

OoT is represented just fine with Sheik.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Phantom Hourglass stage? Where?

 

[NickerBocker]

Okay, so I have made a new roster, let me know what you guys think

Reasoning:

• Charizard - I know what you're thinking, why cut Pokemon Trainer and put in Charizard? It boils down to allocating development time, and priorities. Is it worth pouring so much time and effort to design a character? My reasoning is no it isn't. Pokemon Trainer would take the time of several characters to make again, due to the balance. I will explain in further detail if I must, but it takes a while to explain. Also, Charizard being the most popular of the three, his return makes sense in the light of Pokemon Trainer being cut.
• Shulk - I previously had Isaac on here, but I am constantly jumping between them for the most part. Isaac has more games, but Shulk has the Muhrecency.
• Robin - Uniqueness, i feel, is key this time around. Robin fits the bill perfectly, especially from a game where most of the reps have all been a "Lord with the Sword." It's getting redundant and would be a nice switchup.
• Vaati - He's one of the few recurring characters in Zelda games, other than Impa. He's got plenty to draw from for a moveset, so it won't be difficult to make him unique.
  
  There's my roster guys, what do you think?

 

[Hotfeet444]

Okay, so I have made a new roster, let me know what you guys think

View attachment 7370

Reasoning:

• Charizard - I know what you're thinking, why cut Pokemon Trainer and put in Charizard? It boils down to allocating development time, and priorities. Is it worth pouring some much time and effort to design a character? My reasoning is no it isn't. Pokemon Trainer would take the time of several characters to make again, due to the balance. I will explain in further detail if I must, but it takes a while to explain. Also, Charizard being the most popular of the three, his return makes sense in the light of Pokemon Trainer being cut.
• Shulk - I previously had Isaac on here, but I am constantly jumping between them for the most part. Isaac has more games, but Shulk has the Muhrecency.
• Robin - Uniqueness, i feel, is key this time around. Robin fits the bill perfectly, especially from a game where most of the reps have all been a "Lord with the Sword." It's getting redundant and would be a nice switchup.
• Vaati - He's one of the few recurring characters in Zelda games, other than Impa. He's got plenty to draw from for a moveset, so it won't be difficult to make him unique.
  
  There's my roster guys, what do you think?

It has Mewtwo, it has Ridley, it has Shulk, I am pleased. Although I'd like to say Shulk has alot more going for him than just recency.

 

[Morbi]

Okay, so I have made a new roster, let me know what you guys think

View attachment 7370

Reasoning:

• Charizard - I know what you're thinking, why cut Pokemon Trainer and put in Charizard? It boils down to allocating development time, and priorities. Is it worth pouring so much time and effort to design a character? My reasoning is no it isn't. Pokemon Trainer would take the time of several characters to make again, due to the balance. I will explain in further detail if I must, but it takes a while to explain. Also, Charizard being the most popular of the three, his return makes sense in the light of Pokemon Trainer being cut.
• Shulk - I previously had Isaac on here, but I am constantly jumping between them for the most part. Isaac has more games, but Shulk has the Muhrecency.
• Robin - Uniqueness, i feel, is key this time around. Robin fits the bill perfectly, especially from a game where most of the reps have all been a "Lord with the Sword." It's getting redundant and would be a nice switchup.
• Vaati - He's one of the few recurring characters in Zelda games, other than Impa. He's got plenty to draw from for a moveset, so it won't be difficult to make him unique.
  
  There's my roster guys, what do you think?

Thank the lord someone else uses logic to cut Pokemon Trainer. I was beginning to believe that I was the only one.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Okay, so I have made a new roster, let me know what you guys think

View attachment 7370

I think Charizard is just as important as the other 2 starters. Pokemon Trainer wasn't added just because of Charizard and I seriously doubt Sakurai is going to remove or tear apart the concept of the character. Removing characters with different game mechanics is not something I see happening.

Thank the lord someone else uses logic to cut Pokemon Trainer. I was beginning to believe that I was the only one.

You can do that?

 

[Will]

Okay, so I have made a new roster, let me know what you guys think

View attachment 7370

Reasoning:

• Charizard - I know what you're thinking, why cut Pokemon Trainer and put in Charizard? It boils down to allocating development time, and priorities. Is it worth pouring so much time and effort to design a character? My reasoning is no it isn't. Pokemon Trainer would take the time of several characters to make again, due to the balance. I will explain in further detail if I must, but it takes a while to explain. Also, Charizard being the most popular of the three, his return makes sense in the light of Pokemon Trainer being cut.
• Shulk - I previously had Isaac on here, but I am constantly jumping between them for the most part. Isaac has more games, but Shulk has the Muhrecency.
• Robin - Uniqueness, i feel, is key this time around. Robin fits the bill perfectly, especially from a game where most of the reps have all been a "Lord with the Sword." It's getting redundant and would be a nice switchup.
• Vaati - He's one of the few recurring characters in Zelda games, other than Impa. He's got plenty to draw from for a moveset, so it won't be difficult to make him unique.
  
  There's my roster guys, what do you think?

No waluigi,0/10

 

[IsmaR]

Boomburst would be cool, but I just felt Uproar fit Jigglypuff better.

I don't disagree, I just find it ironic that Uproar pretty much does the opposite of what Jigglypuff is known for (prevent sleep entirely).

I also think it would be cool to incorporate something like Wake-Up Slap, which does double damage on sleeping opponents.

Then there's what Morbid said. I wouldn't mind no changes at all so long as they buffed her back to at least being decent.

 

[Hotfeet444]

I don't disagree, I just find it ironic that Uproar pretty much does the opposite of what Jigglypuff is known for (prevent sleep entirely).

I also think it would be cool to incorporate something like Wake-Up Slap, which does double damage on sleeping opponents.

Then there's what Morbid said. I wouldn't mind no changes at all so long as they buffed her back to at least being decent.

Well Jigglypuff doesn't like it when you fall asleep. Maybe I can add in Sing as a first-part to the final smash, then she gets angry as anyone close falls asleep, and lets out an Uproar to deal big damage. And Jiggs has the problem of either being mediocre or being absolutely incredible in every game she's in...there's never been a fine line between the two extremes sadly.

 

[NickerBocker]

I think Charizard is just as important as the other 2 starters. Pokemon Trainer wasn't added just because of Charizard and I seriously doubt Sakurai is going to remove or tear apart the concept of the character. Removing characters with different game mechanics is not something I see happening.

Charizard is more popular than than the other 2, by far. I figured don't take away everything that the Pokemon Trainer had, but if he was cut i find Charizard to be more likely. I would personally rather have all 3 return, as individuals, and would actually be easier from a programming standpoint.

It has Mewtwo, it has Ridley, it has Shulk, I am pleased. Although I'd like to say Shulk has alot more going for him than just recency.

He does, but i find him very similar to Isaac in that they are fighting for the same slot. Those features are what seperates them.

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

That vision has made the games awesome up until now because the roster is still small enough that it can be grown without cuts, or with very few cuts. With the game's roster nearing 50 this time around, that's no longer going to be possible in the future. Add six characters to SSB6, whatever, then what are you going to do with SSB7 or 8? The roster cannot and will not expand infinitely; keeping the same cast with no character or moveset changes, sans 4-5 newcomers and some mediocre game modes certainly won't cut it.

That argument only stands since we don't know anything about the future. You talk about SSB8 so casually when its a good 25 years away. Technology is developing so quickly that its entirely possible for there to be a 70 character roster. My original point was that it is interesting to see what they do when they reach a plateau where the only choices of newcomers are from the realm of obscurity. Marvel VS Capcom 2 had a huge roster of characters and was created over ten years ago. Its entirely possible

 

[Knight Dude]

That vision has made the games awesome up until now because the roster is still small enough that it can be grown without cuts, or with very few cuts. With the game's roster nearing 50 this time around, that's no longer going to be possible in the future. Add six characters to SSB6, whatever, then what are you going to do with SSB7 or 8? The roster cannot and will not expand infinitely; keeping the same cast with no character or moveset changes, sans 4-5 newcomers and some mediocre game modes certainly won't cut it.

Blood must be shed. Certain warriors will only be given a single chance to battle. Blood must be shed for the Brotherhood of Smash. We are those, guided by the Hand. May we send our enemies flying out of the boundaries of this mortal realm. Dark forces that would call upon then Hand's vile Brother. Only then may we find our calling. Through the Battlefield and towards the Final Destination.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Charizard is more popular than than the other 2, by far. I figured don't take away everything that the Pokemon Trainer had, but if he was cut i find Charizard to be more likely.

I don't think Squirtle and Ivysaur will be cut regardless of popularity. Same goes for Sheik. If you don't have the Pokemon Trainer, then you need the Pokemon Trainer. If that means leaving out Mewtwo then so be it. I don't see Sakurai removing Pokemon Trainer for Shulk. That's very strange.

 

[No Control]

Charizard is more popular than than the other 2, by far. I figured don't take away everything that the Pokemon Trainer had, but if he was cut i find Charizard to be more likely. I would personally rather have all 3 return, as individuals, and would actually be easier from a programming standpoint.

Yeah Charizard's definitely the most popular of the 3. Personally I want to see the whole character return, though.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Charizard is more popular than than the other 2, by far. I figured don't take away everything that the Pokemon Trainer had, but if he was cut i find Charizard to be more likely. I would personally rather have all 3 return, as individuals, and would actually be easier from a programming standpoint.




He does, but i find him very similar to Isaac in that they are fighting for the same slot. Those features are what seperates them.

Well, the thing is Shulk already has something he can definitely use to make him completely different from the roster while Isaac would just be swordplay and Magic, basically Robin without the Grima transformation and stance changing. Shulk, however, could use a level-up system that's unlike anything seen in Smash Bros before. Dealing enough damage would make you go up a level, starting at level 0, level 1 activates the Monado's power and lets you use special moves, and every increase in level increases the power of your moves, but decreases the range, so it's high risk high reward. Every time you're KOd, you go back to level 0, it's kind of like Frank West from Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, which was one of my favorite fighting styles in said game.

 

[BKupa666]

That argument only stands since we don't know anything about the future. You talk about SSB8 so casually when its a good 25 years away. Technology is developing so quickly that its entirely possible for there to be a 70 character roster. My original point was that it is interesting to see what they do when they reach a plateau where the only choices of newcomers are from the realm of obscurity. Marvel VS Capcom 2 had a huge roster of characters and was created over ten years ago. Its entirely possible

Technology doesn't solve the balance problems inherent in adding characters to a game like Smash. As Sakurai correctly claims, it's multiplication of the time and energy needed in development, not addition. There's also this pre-existing notion that each Smash game has to bring something drastically new to the table. Barring some sort of out-of-this-world holograph option, eventually, a roster revamp is by far the best thing they could do to revitalize the series once it has reached the plateau you mentioned. Much better than some single player mode that no one uses after week one or the stickers.

 

[NickerBocker]

I don't think Squirtle and Ivysaur will be cut regardless of popularity. Same goes for Sheik. If you don't have the Pokemon Trainer, then you need the Pokemon Trainer. If that means leaving out Mewtwo then so be it. I don't see Sakurai removing Pokemon Trainer for Shulk. That's very strange.

Squirtle and Ivysaur won't be cut due to popularity. Pokemon Trainer as a whole will be removed, and Charizard will be brought back due to his immense popularity and would satisfy more people than bringing back Squirtle or Ivysaur Also, Pokemon Trainer won't be cut for Shulk(?) Theyre completely separate equations, IMO. Frankly, people just don't like cuts (me neither) but if any character will be cut due to time constraints, its the one that takes the most time to develop with the least amount of payout (Work equal to 4+ characters amounting to 1 slot)

 

[SuperNintendoDisney]

Technology doesn't solve the balance problems inherent in adding characters to a game like Smash. As Sakurai correctly claims, it's multiplication of the time and energy needed in development, not addition. There's also this pre-existing notion that each Smash game has to bring something drastically new to the table. Barring some sort of out-of-this-world holograph option, eventually, a roster revamp is by far the best thing they could do to revitalize the series once it has reached the plateau you mentioned. Much better than some single player mode that no one uses after week one or the stickers.

Oh, I agree that single player modes are the big draw. I just don't feel they need to revamp characters and drastically change the move-set. It would take away time they could use to create new characters and its much easier to bring back veterans since they require less planning and work.

Allow me to highlight who I think is an essential cast for Smash Bros.

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser
Yoshi, Wario, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong
Link, Zelda, Ganondorf
Samus, Ridley, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo
Pit, Ice Climbers, R.O.B, Mr. Game & Watch
Olimar, C. Falcon, Ness, Marth
Kirby, King Dedede, Meta Knight
Fox, Falco, Wolf

30 essential characters. All the major series well represented including the long-time veterans who are grand fathered in starting from Brawl, with the inclusion of Ridley. All the characters Sakurai originally wanted in both Smash 64 and Melee are present.

I believe that in the future it will be entirely possible for huge character rosters, plus, I agree with you that they need to do very little to the game-play in the series to make a new entry attractive. I feel they could just make a future-proof Smash Bros. game somewhere down the line where they just keep adding to it

 

[BKupa666]

Whether a character should be given tweaks or a revamp is probably best decided on a character-by-character basis. It's just a personal thought that the older veterans' movesets pale in comparison to the newer characters', and that need not be the case. Mario and DK can be made to stand out just as much as Rosalina and Mega Man, but are instead stuck performing bland punches and kicks on the vast majority of their moves, just because they had the bad fortune of having their movesets made in 1999. I wish that would change, and that this change would be the "new approach" taken with a future Smash game, rather than some superfluous game mode.

My list of essentials is that list, minus Falco, Wolf, the retro characters, and Jigglypuff. Maybe with Little Mac added on, and K. Rool too if I'm being biased.

 

[Reznor]

Whether a character should be given tweaks or a revamp is probably best decided on a character-by-character basis. It's just a personal thought that the older veterans' movesets pale in comparison to the newer characters', and that need not be the case. Mario and DK can be made to stand out just as much as Rosalina and Mega Man, but are instead stuck performing bland punches and kicks on the vast majority of their moves, just because they had the bad fortune of originating in a game made in 1999. I wish that would change, and that this change would be the "new approach" taken with a future Smash game, rather than some superfluous game mode.

Also, cut out Falco, Wolf, the retro characters and Jigglypuff, and I agree with that list of essentials. Maybe add Little Mac or somebody too.

he didn't even give Luigi his Poltergust

 

[Gunla]

Marvel VS Capcom 2 had a huge roster of characters and was created over ten years ago. Its entirely possible

MVC2 may be groundbreaking, but the issue is that many characters are clones or are simply underdeveloped in that game.

 

[Hotfeet444]

MVC2 may be groundbreaking, but the issue is that many characters are clones or are simply underdeveloped in that game.

Marvel vs. Capcom 2 was cut and paste from other games, very few original characters actually being designed for said game. Besides, half the Capcom roster was Street Fighter characters, what an absolute joy that is. Not to mention it's even more unbalanced than Brawl, considering everyone choses the same three characters and there are characters in the game that have literally NO chance of beating others. What an absolute Gem...

Sorry, that's me going off on a tangent of how overrated MVC2 is.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Squirtle and Ivysaur won't be cut due to popularity. Pokemon Trainer as a whole will be removed

Lol, not happening. Especially not for the characters on your roster.

and Charizard will be brought back due to his immense popularity and would satisfy more people than bringing back Squirtle or Ivysaur Also, Pokemon Trainer won't be cut for Shulk(?) Theyre completely separate equations, IMO.

Because Shulk is hardly even important and Pokemon Trainer IS.

Frankly, people just don't like cuts (me neither) but if any character will be cut due to time constraints, its the one that takes the most time to develop

Uh, no. That is NOT how it works. If anything it's the other way around. Sakurai does not remove characters because they take long to develop. You know it takes a long time to develop 3 Kirby characters. How does that make them low priority. Same goes for Zelda and Sheik. Characters being integrated into one does not make you low priority either. They are each individual characters just like everyone else. Again, if anything that makes them higher priority.

(Work equal to 4+ characters amounting to 1 slot)

How is 3 characters equal to 4 characters? Last time I checked you couldn't play as the Trainer himself. And again even if they are together as one slot, they are still 3 characters not 1. Even if it was 1 character your idea of characters being low priority because they take long to develop is proposterous. Let alone the idea that because 3 characters take as long to develop as any other character it makes them low priority. I guess Ike, King Dedede, and Captain Falcon should be low priority. Because it takes so long to develop all of them.