Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Morbi]

It's the presentation. The point it that he is the size of the quarter, the the game is trying to make the player feel small in a huge world giving them the feel that their size is normal in comparison. Ridley is just big for the sake of being big, no twists or gimmicks involved.

It doesn't matter. I read the manual first. I knew we were small. At the same time I am pretty sure there was giant trash everywhere we looked. Which would further indicate to anyone who didn't read the manual that you were indeed a ******.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Size doesn't matter, even if it doesn't feel right, they still want a character to be in Smash despite it.

 

[Frostwraith]

You know, the more I hear this same size bull**** about Ridley, the more I want him playable to prove them wrong... >_>

 

[Silverjay323]

It doesn't matter. I read the manual first. I knew we were small. At the same time I am pretty sure there was giant trash everywhere we looked. Which would further indicate to anyone who didn't read the manual that you were indeed a ******.

Actually yes it does. Olimar's size is meant to be a subject of controversy to the player. The "small" the is supposed to be a shocker, but I digress.

And yet he's still canonically small. He was resized for Brawl. Ridley can be resized as well. Being large was never Ridley's defining characteristic. That would be Kraid.

He can. But I don't think he will. That is all.

​

 

[zauberdragon]

We're still talking about Ridley?
To put it in perspective, do people really think Sakurai sits at his desk contemplating Ridley before scraping him because he's too big? If a usually quarter sized Olimar can fight a usually sized 7 foot 6 Ganondorf while 8 inch Kirby and Bowser, whose height ranges from human to house sized watches on, Ridley can be in the game.

 

[Hotfeet444]

You know, the more I hear this same size bull**** about Ridley, the more I want him playable to prove them wrong... >_>

This...just this...

 

[mimgrim]

Well all of that escalated rather quickly. o.o

Just get over the damnes size argument. Smash has never and will never follow canon. End of story, good bye, the end.

If we end up getting Geno in the cast, which I very highly doubt will happen, unfourtantly, we need this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lni0rfv_CHA and this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_q9y5vSIrw put into the song track. :L

 

[jaytalks]

Well I wasn't comparing him to the other Veterans.
To be fair, we've had stages before that didn't exactly favor a specific character from a franchise. I mean we had Delfino Plaza without Bowser Junior. Hanenbow, Smashville, Pictochat without a character from their respective franchises. We might not get a Nintendog now that we have a Nintendog stage. A stage doesn't confirm anything. The Spirit Train stage and Sakurai stating that no cuts have been made prove that.


Well we don't know that yet, so it isn't safe to make assumptions just yet.

Oh, I knew you werent comparing him to other veterans. I just think Roy should be compared to other Smash veterans. Much like them, his popularity in a Smash poll comes from being a Smash game. Which is something that Lyn and Chrom don't have. People want Roy back like they want Ike back.

With Delfino Plaza, it could be said that it was for Mario, considering he was the playable character from the game. It's true that Hanenbow, Smashville, Pictochat did not have character representation, but there's never been a stage for a series with characters that didnt reflect the characters in the game somehow. The stages for the series with characters reflect the roster. Arena Ferox is the first FE stage geared toward a specific game. It doesn't confirm anything, but I think it adds to the chances of an Awakening rep.
The Link in the Spirit Tracks stage is different than Toon Link. He is Toon Link's grandson, so him being in the stage doesn't mean we won't have Toon Link anyways.

I do think that Sakurai is relatively unaffected by fan response to Mewtwo like that. I think the alternate costume DLC would definitely placate people who want him as his generation form.

I think alternate costume rewards system would be a perfect way to reward player for their single player experience, as indicated in the article. It's much better than cutscenes.
List of costumes:
Mewtwo = Generation 1 form
Marth = SNES look
Link = SS Link
Mario = Dr. Mario
Toon Link = Outset Island Look
Mega Man = Complete Proto Man look
Villager = Female Villager
Ike = RD or PoR look (whichever isn't used in the game)
Lucas = Masked Man
Pokemon Trainer Red = Female Trainer Green of Leaf
Zelda = OOT Zelda and Sheik
Snake = Old Snake
Sonic = Shadow
Metroid = Super Metroid or Metroid Fusion outfit
etc

 

[Morbi]

Actually yes it does. Olimar's size is meant to be a subject of controversy to the player. The "small" the is supposed to be a shocker, but I digress.

He can. But I don't think he will. That is all.

What? If they wanted it to be a shocker they wouldn't allude to his size 24/7. Or put his true size in the manual. I went in the game with the notion already being known... how is it supposed to shock me or anyone else competent enough to realize the direction the game is going in. Bioshock Infinites ending was great and all... but if you were paying attention to the clues they gave you the entire game the ending was fairly predictable and expected. If they wanted to shock you... they would make it more like Bioshock 1. However, they wanted to lead you. Just like Pikmin did. If you weren't paying attention to all of the clues... if you didn't read the manual... that is on you. That doesn't mean that they intended your experience to be the OBJECTIVE experience.

 

[TumblrFamous]

This whole argument... we are talking about Masahiro Sakurai, the man who could make a bottle of water fit into Smash. I think a little bit of downsizing will be easy.

 

[UberMadman]

Ghirahim BETTER be in this game, or you know how that will make me feel inside?

 

[cephalopod17]

Smash exists outside of all series. Olimar can be normal sized. Bowser can be small. Character hacks have shown us Ridley can be in it. End of story. I would say Ridley will appear. In my opinion he was more likely than Megaman, Villager and Wii Fit Trainer.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Oh hi Zant!

 

[Morbi]

Oh, I knew you werent comparing him to other veterans. I just think Roy should be compared to other Smash veterans. Much like them, his popularity in a Smash poll comes from being a Smash game. Which is something that Lyn and Chrom don't have. People want Roy back like they want Ike back.

With Delfino Plaza, it could be said that it was for Mario, considering he was the playable character from the game. It's true that Hanenbow, Smashville, Pictochat did not have character representation, but there's never been a stage for a series with characters that didnt reflect the characters in the game somehow. The stages for the series with characters reflect the roster. Arena Ferox is the first FE stage geared toward a specific game. It doesn't confirm anything, but I think it adds to the chances of an Awakening rep.
The Link in the Spirit Tracks stage is different than Toon Link. He is Toon Link's grandson, so him being in the stage doesn't mean we won't have Toon Link anyways.

I do think that Sakurai is relatively unaffected by fan response to Mewtwo like that. I think the alternate costume DLC would definitely placate people who want him as his generation form.

I think alternate costume rewards system would be a perfect way to reward player for their single player experience, as indicated in the article. It's much better than cutscenes.
List of costumes:
Mewtwo = Generation 1 form
Marth = SNES look
Link = SS Link
Mario = Dr. Mario
Toon Link = Outset Island Look
Mega Man = Complete Proto Man look
Villager = Female Villager
Ike = RD or PoR look (whichever isn't used in the game)
Lucas = Masked Man
Pokemon Trainer Red = Female Trainer Green of Leaf
Zelda = OOT Zelda and Sheik
Snake = Old Snake
Sonic = Shadow
Metroid = Super Metroid or Metroid Fusion outfit
etc

You never really responded to me regarding why Mewtwo should be a costume as opposed to Majin Mewbuu being a Final Smash.

IF Smash had costumes I would agree with you. However, this isn't PSASBR. This is SSB Pallet Swaps Among Us.

Edit- HOLY JESUS ON A STICK DID YOU JUST CALL BLUE LEAF? OMG. POKEMON NERD RAGE!!!!!

 

[jaytalks]

Why do you suppose Ridley was not playable in Brawl and what has changed since then besides a bit more fan support than he had for Brawl?

No matter how many fans want it, I'm not convinced Ridley will be playable.

I think this is the point people are trying to get at. Ridley is by no means a guarantee, so it's understandable to leave him off a roster prediction. Sakurai has said that developing him would take more time and effort, so usually if I include him I make a concerted effort to make the roster smaller than I originally had it. Just because he has fan support does not mean he is the most likely character. Because he has had fan support before.

You never really responded to me regarding why Mewtwo should be a costume as opposed to Majin Mewbuu being a Final Smash.

IF Smash had costumes I would agree with you. However, this isn't PSASBR. This is SSB Pallet Swaps Among Us.

I thought I did. I think it would be best for him to represent Generation 6 this way. If he was in his generation 1 form, the Pokemon reps would be to Gen 1 heavy. That's also why I usually predict the Unova starters for Pokemon Trainer as well. I don't really have a personal interest in Mewtwo being included if he's not in his awakened form.

And I was suggesting the costumes based on comments of Sakurai in the IGN article. Costumes would be awards for each character completing single player, much better than cutscenes, and much better than paying DLC.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Oh hi Zant!

Oh come now, give Ghirahim more credit than that...at least he isn't pretending to be something he isn't. And those awesome dance skills...

Please tell me I wasn't the only one dying of laughter at this point in the game...

 

[Morbi]

I think this is the point people are trying to get at. Ridley is by no means a guarantee, so it's understandable to leave him off a roster prediction. Sakurai has said that developing him would take more time and effort, so usually if I include him I make a concerted effort to make the roster smaller than I originally had it. Just because he has fan support does not mean he is the most likely character. Because he has had fan support before.

This is precisely why I leave Pokemon Trainer off of my Roster Prediction lists...

 

[Frostwraith]

Oh come now, give Ghirahim more credit than that...at least he isn't pretending to be something he isn't. And those awesome dance skills...

Please tell me I wasn't the only one dying of laughter at this point in the game...

It was hilarious seeing that. Despite being a funny moment, the whole scene wasn't ruined, since that dance was very much in-character for Ghirahim.

I don't have high hopes for him, but I would really like to see him playable in Smash. Still one of my favorite villains of all time, only surpassed by Hades from Kid Icarus: Uprising, Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars and a few others.

 

[cephalopod17]

They did say that SSB4 is getting more developing time however. I would agree though to that. They would have to "redesign" Ridley so to speak to make him look not ugly, which takes time.

 

[Morbi]

It was hilarious seeing that. Despite being a funny moment, the whole scene wasn't ruined, since that dance was very much in-character for Ghirahim.

I don't have high hopes for him, but I would really like to see him playable in Smash. Still one of my favorite villains of all time, only surpassed by Hades from Kid Icarus: Uprising, Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars and a few others.

Another Hades fan? Yes! I actually kind of want Hades in Smash. It would be pretty hilarious.

 

[jaytalks]

You never really responded to me regarding why Mewtwo should be a costume as opposed to Majin Mewbuu being a Final Smash.

IF Smash had costumes I would agree with you. However, this isn't PSASBR. This is SSB Pallet Swaps Among Us.

Edit- HOLY JESUS ON A STICK DID YOU JUST CALL BLUE LEAF? OMG. POKEMON NERD RAGE!!!!!

Based on her inclusion in Leaf Green as a playable character and the generally accepted name in both the manga and game. Blue is now reserved for the rival character (the Gary person). http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Leaf

Check above for Mewtwo thoughts.

 

[Hotfeet444]

It was hilarious seeing that. Despite being a funny moment, the whole scene wasn't ruined, since that dance was very much in-character for Ghirahim.

I don't have high hopes for him, but I would really like to see him playable in Smash. Still one of my favorite villains of all time, only surpassed by Hades from Kid Icarus: Uprising, Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars and a few others.

HAAAAADDDEEES!
PIIIIIIIITTTT!!
HAAAAAAAADDEEEESSSS!!
PIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTT!!
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADEEEEEEEES!!
PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTT!!

Sorry, I love Hades as a villain as well. The ******* child of Hazama and Kefka is what I like to describe him as.

 

[Morbi]

Based on her inclusion in Leaf Green as a playable character and the generally accepted name in both the manga and game. Blue is now reserved for the rival character (the Gary person). http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Leaf

Check above for Mewtwo thoughts.

I read your thoughts. I wrote a response though. I can find it again. Here... (it was post 8118 for context)


Actually it would be better to have his Awakened form as a Final Smash. I mean that is essentially how she uses in the movie as far as I am aware. That would be like only having Sheik because she is more powerful. Why can we even change back to Zelda? It isn't a relevant argument in my opinion. The point of bringing back the character is too PLEASE THE FANS. They aren't just putting him in because he is current. It is obviously a contributing factor of course. I think you are forgetting that Mewtwo is a Smash veteran. So completely replacing him would piss of more than the butt-hurt Gen 1 fans. It would also disappoint Smash fans. This is a smash game.

That would be like putting ssj3 Goku in the game without having Goku... it doesn't make sense.

Anyways. I thought you mean't Blue from the Manga. Not the game character. I guess in Murica she was renamed because of the game. I just stick with her original name though.

 

[cephalopod17]

Concerning Ghirahim he is a awesome Zelda villain, but he is one of the many. Zelda has a ton of side characters to offer like Midna, Skull Kid, Twinrova, Vaati and the many incarnations of Ganon.

Hades would make a interesting Kid Icarus rep,and even though I would prefer Palutena or Medusa as reps he would be awesome!

 

[mimgrim]

Hades should NOT be a playable character in Smash as there is a MUCH BETTER role for him. Put Hades as a stage background for a KIU stage and have him do most awesome commentary while causing havoc for everyone. That's how Hades should be in Smash 4 without a doubt.

On the subject of villians though, what villians does everyone want in the game? You don't have to be realistic about it, they jsut need to be from a Nintendo game.

I would want;

Sho_Minamimoto
Axem Rangers
King Boo
Black Knight
Ashnard

 

[BluePikmin11]

Hades could be like Ganondorf, only faster to troll people.

 

[Morbi]

Concerning Ghirahim he is a awesome Zelda villain, but he is one of the many. Zelda has a ton of side characters to offer like Midna, Skull Kid, Twinrova, Vaati and the many incarnations of Ganon.

Hades would make a interesting Kid Icarus rep,and even though I would prefer Palutena or Medusa as reps he would be awesome!

I know everyone says Medusa. Once I actually watched Kid Icarus: Uprising I figured out that she wasn't nearly as likely as everyone was letting on. Viridi or Hades are WAY more likely. I actually became a huge Hades fan. His design is really unique too. So he has that going for him.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Concerning Ghirahim he is a awesome Zelda villain, but he is one of the many. Zelda has a ton of side characters to offer like Midna, Skull Kid, Twinrova, Vaati and the many incarnations of Ganon.

Hades would make a interesting Kid Icarus rep,and even though I would prefer Palutena or Medusa as reps he would be awesome!

I'd like to also add in that Ghirahim is easily the most likeable Legend of Zelda character made...ever...I mean seriously, what's not to love about the guy? He's insane, he's funny, he can dance, and more! I personally love Midna alot more...but that's just me and I'm sure it's just me, but Ghirahim is a special case. He's a character people REALLY want to come back some way/shape/or form. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a petition on the internet to include Ghirahim in A Link Between Worlds or the new Zelda U title.

 

[Silverjay323]

What? If they wanted it to be a shocker they wouldn't allude to his size 24/7. Or put his true size in the manual. I went in the game with the notion already being known... how is it supposed to shock me or anyone else competent enough to realize the direction the game is going in. Bioshock Infinites ending was great and all... but if you were paying attention to the clues they gave you the entire game the ending was fairly predictable and expected. If they wanted to shock you... they would make it more like Bioshock 1. However, they wanted to lead you. Just like Pikmin did. If you weren't paying attention to all of the clues... if you didn't read the manual... that is on you. That doesn't mean that they intended your experience to be the OBJECTIVE experience.

Bioshock comparisons I don't even know the plot of that series...You basically confirmed my point about Pikmin's perspective. Whether it was to shock or to lead, it doesn't change that it was, in a sense, what they were going for. Moving on with life...

 

[MagnesD3]

Demise, demise would be a big win for me.

 

[AEMehr]

I always thought Toon Link was the most likable Zelda character ever made.

 

[mimgrim]

I know everyone says Medusa. Once I actually watched Kid Icarus: Uprising I figured out that she wasn't nearly as likely as everyone was letting on. Viridi or Hades are WAY more likely. I actually became a huge Hades fan. His design is really unique too. So he has that going for him.

All the KIU characters are awesome with the incredible dialouge all of them have. lol

But for me Viridi comes out on top with Hades being a close second. Viridi all the way~ To bad Palutena has a better chance of getting in, well at least she comes out in 3rd for me. lol

 

[Morbi]

I'd like to also add in that Ghirahim is easily the most likeable Legend of Zelda character made...ever...I mean seriously, what's not to love about the guy? He's insane, he's funny, he can dance, and more! I personally love Midna alot more...but that's just me and I'm sure it's just me, but Ghirahim is a special case. He's a character people REALLY want to come back some way/shape/or form. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a petition on the internet to include Ghirahim in A Link Between Worlds or the new Zelda U title.

I actually like the Owl from Ocarina of Time. He is the biggest video game troll EVER. So he is pretty likable.

Hades should NOT be a playable character in Smash as there is a MUCH BETTER role for him. Put Hades as a stage background for a KIU stage and have him do most awesome commentary while causing havoc for everyone. That's how Hades should be in Smash 4 without a doubt.

On the subject of villians though, what villians does everyone want in the game? You don't have to be realistic about it, they jsut need to be from a Nintendo game.

I would want;

Sho_Minamimoto
Axem Rangers
King Boo
Black Knight
Ashnard

1. Wolf
2. Mewtwo
3. Black Shadow
4. Hades
5. Ridley
6. King K. Rool
7. King Boo

I actually also have to agree with you on King Boo. I am a huge Luigi fan. Which means I am a huge fan of Luigi's Mansion. King Boo is totally epic. My favorite Mario villain BY FAR.

 

[mimgrim]

I actually like the Owl from Ocarina of Time. He is the biggest video game troll EVER. So he is pretty likable.



1. Wolf
2. Mewtwo
3. Black Shadow
4. Hades
5. Ridley
6. King K. Rool
7. King Boo

I actually also have to agree with you on King Boo. I am a huge Luigi fan. Which means I am a huge fan of Luigi's Mansion. King Boo is totally epic. My favorite Mario villain BY FAR.

I really wouldn't consider Mewtwo a villain. o.O But dangit I forgot Ridley. I didn't include Wolf in mine as he has already been in at least 1 Smash game. But yea I want him back to. lol

 

[Morbi]

Bioshock comparisons I don't even know the plot of that series...You basically confirmed my point about Pikmin's perspective. Whether it was to shock or to lead, it doesn't change that it was, in a sense, what they were going for. Moving on with life...

Bioshock was probably the best example. They are credited with some of the best plots and video game writing across the board. So I just used it as an example. People consider their twist endings as some of the most creative and innovative. Infinites is implied with the name. It just gets into a lot of multi-verse theory.

All the KIU characters are awesome with the incredible dialouge all of them have. lol

But for me Viridi comes out on top with Hades being a close second. Viridi all the way~ To bad Palutena has a better chance of getting in, well at least she comes out in 3rd for me. lol

Yeah. I liked Viridi's dialogue the most as well. Hades was pretty close though. All things considered I think he has a decent chance. We already know a new Uprising rep will be included in the game. So why not the villain? I have to agree though. I liked all of the dialogue in the game, so many great characters.

 

[Sebz]

It could be argued that Genesect is now more of a villain while Mewtwo has become something of an anti-hero.

 

[cephalopod17]

I know everyone says Medusa. Once I actually watched Kid Icarus: Uprising I figured out that she wasn't nearly as likely as everyone was letting on. Viridi or Hades are WAY more likely. I actually became a huge Hades fan. His design is really unique too. So he has that going for him.

I know, in Uprising she was a puppet for Hades and Hades has a good personality and yeah his design is awesome. There is one thing going or Medusa though, she has appeared in the KI franchise a lot longer than Hades. Also more people would recognize her than Hades. I like Hades a little more than Medusa.

I'd like to also add in that Ghirahim is easily the most likeable Legend of Zelda character made...ever...I mean seriously, what's not to love about the guy? He's insane, he's funny, he can dance, and more! I personally love Midna alot more...but that's just me and I'm sure it's just me, but Ghirahim is a special case. He's a character people REALLY want to come back some way/shape/or form. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a petition on the internet to include Ghirahim in A Link Between Worlds or the new Zelda U title.

Ghirahim is awesome. However given that Midna was popular as well during Brawl's development, and she was only featured as a trophy and sticker. That's the thing with Zelda,most of the characters only appear once, now if Ghirahim was a character that would be awesome. In my opinon the only reason he could appear is if he waI'd like to also add in that Ghirahim is easily the most likeable Legend of Zelda character made...ever...I mean seriously, what's not to love about the guy? He's insane, he's funny, he can dance, and more! I personally love Midna alot more...but that's just me and I'm sure it's just me, but Ghirahim is a special case. He's a character people REALLY want to come back some way/shape/or form. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a petition on the internet to include Ghirahim in A Link Between Worlds or the new Zelda U title. s in Zelda Wii U or a Link Between Worlds.

Also my villain list (Not including playable vetrans)
Ridley
King K. Rool
Hades
King Boo
Kamek
Vaati
Ghirahim
Skull Kid

 

[Hyper Luigi]

Charizard wasn't playable in Melee. Olimar is the size of a quarter, and Pikachu's a foot tall. Bing, bang, boom.

I'm not arguing size

Why do you suppose Charizard was playable while Ridley was not?

 

[Silverjay323]

Bioshock was probably the best example. They are credited with some of the best plots and video game writing across the board. So I just used it as an example. People consider their twist endings as some of the most creative and innovative. Infinites is implied with the name. It just gets into a lot of multi-verse theory.



Yeah. I liked Viridi's dialogue the most as well. Hades was pretty close though. All things considered I think he has a decent chance. We already know a new Uprising rep will be included in the game. So why not the villain? I have to agree though. I liked all of the dialogue in the game, so many great characters.

Wasn't it something objectivism with anagrams of the name of some dude all over?
I wouldn't put it past Sakurai to include a third KI rep...

 

[Hotfeet444]

I actually also have to agree with you on King Boo. I am a huge Luigi fan. Which means I am a huge fan of Luigi's Mansion. King Boo is totally epic. My favorite Mario villain BY FAR.

If we're going by favorite Mario villains...there's only one for me...

Eat your heart out Fawful, this is something you'll never be good enough to become.