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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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Robert of Normandy

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Alright @ Robert of Normandy Robert of Normandy .
I still don't find Robin likely though. If Sakurai goes to IS like he always does, they will almost definitely recommend Chrom, Lucina, or Chromcina.
Assuming he goes to them. He's not bound to ask them for approval like he is for Game freak/TPC. Never forget that he managed to add Marth without asking them who to add first.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Any evidence for why Sakurai won't or can't add a "Lord" aside from patterns? Or, for that matter, why Robin doesn't qualify as a "Lord"? He's a character that's central to the plot and who causes a Game Over when he dies, just like every other "Lord" in the history of Fire Emblem.

-Is it because he isn't called a Lord? That can't be it because then Micaiah, Alm, and Celica wouldn't be Lords either. Hell, Ike isn't called a Lord at all in RD.
-Is it because he isn't forced in every chapter? In that case, Hector wouldn't be a proper Lord because he is optional throughout most of FE7 unless you're playing on Hector mode(which you have to beat Eliwoood mode to get). Same goes for Ephraim, who is forced in ~2 chapters if you don't take his route in FE8? Also, if you want to get technical, then Sigurd and Seliph are only "forced" in FE4 by nature of you not being able to complete Chapters without them. Additionally, does this criteria mean that any character who is forced(i.e. Athos, Nils, Ena) could qualify as a Lord?

Plus, Lord is just a fan term used to refer to the main characters of each FE game. I've never seen evidence that the term is used officially by IS or anyone else at Nintendo.
I think what we're all referring to, is the small percentage of FE characters that have any chance of getting picked. Nobody but three people from Awakening have any sort of shot. That is in my opinion irrefutable.

The characters in question are main/major characters. Personally I think Chrom and Robin are the only ones with a chance. It's not so much if they're a lord as much as they are main character material, marketable, etc...

Really though, let's not beat around the bush. FE is a franchise that has a new cast almost every single game. In my opinion, there isn't a shot in hell for any other character from any other FE game. It's a series that should be keeping up with the times, not sticking in the past.

This is why Roy has less of a chance than I think people actually expect.

It will be either Chrom or Robin, and I must side with Chrom, not because I like him, but because he is relevant to advertisements, promotions, you name it, not the Avatar. That is the major difference between them. Chrom is much more iconic because of this.

That's why I say they are even. Chrom has the starpower, Avatar has the uniqueness. That's about as black and white as I can get it. Smash is about "all-stars". I just don't think uniqueness is enough for the avatar.
 

DarrylTrainer

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Hmmm
if you guys had to chose 20 3rd party's who would they be...?
1. Sonic
2. Snake
3. Mega Man
4. Pac-Man
5. Sora
6. Banjo & Kazooie
7. Spyro
8. Desmond Miles/Ezio Auditore
9. Cooking Mama
10. Bayonetta
11. Cloud
12. Knuckles
13. Amy Rose
14. Tails
15. Epic Mickey
16. Bomberman
17. Dr. Eggman
18. Riku
19. Roxas
20. Kairi
 

Louie G.

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We have no idea what Sakurai thinks about a Robin esque character.
We've never had one before.
That's assuming quite a bit, isn't it?
We have. His name is Villager.
And it was basically a joke saying how Sakurai has only used swords for Fire Emblem movesets. Sakurai seems to be a FE fan actually.
Assuming he goes to them. He's not bound to ask them for approval like he is for Game freak/TPC. Never forget that he managed to add Marth without asking them who to add first.
Sure, but I doubt that with an important game like Awakening that Sakurai wouldn't ask.
Marth is an obvious choice due to his overall importance to the franchise.
Chrom nor Robin are extremely important yet. They aren't obvious choices or mascots to the franchise.
 
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Morbi

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Seemingly a jealous one, to boot. If I can't have what I want, then no one can.
That isn't my mentality. I do not know where that is implied in anything I stated (it is merely an assumption). I already have characters that I like in the game, I have survived without my favorites for a long time. It is more about laughing at people. I mean, if I am not interested in having characters that everyone else wants... I am jealous? That is an odd proclamation; however, it is fine. It is to be expected, one does not simply laugh at the established "ideal" choices and expect to walk away unscathed.
 

Mega Bidoof

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Alright @ Robert of Normandy Robert of Normandy .
I still don't find Robin likely though. If Sakurai goes to IS like he always does, they will almost definitely recommend Chrom, Lucina, or Chromcina.
Or they will recommend Tharja, since the favorite character among the developers is always voted Tharja.
But I doubt Sakurai will add Tharja by herself.
 

Reznor

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so im bored if Sakurai wanted to add another 3rd party character from one of these games which one would you pick
extra Megaman character or extra Sonic character
 

Louie G.

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Or they will recommend Tharja, since the favorite character among the developers is always voted Tharja.
But I doubt Sakurai will add Tharja by herself.
No Tharja. She's not important enough to the game, dev favorite or not.
so im bored if Sakurai wanted to add another 3rd party character from one of these games which one would you pick
extra Megaman character or extra Sonic character
Sonic.
Because my man Knuckles.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Now, let's be serious for a second.
I am not singling you out on this, but since you brought up Chrom, I think I should mention this.

A lot of people in the Smash fan base are "in denial" about certain characters they do not like.
Specifically, Chrom and Pac-Man.

•For Chrom, people think he cannot be unique for some reason.
JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE DOESNT HAVE A SWORD, DOESNT MEAN HE/SHE CANT BE UNIQUE!
He could use the Falchion not only as a sword, but.......
Wait for it....

A MAGIC SWORD!

He doesn't have to be restricted to the Falchion. He can use lances, spears, and axes.
He can be unique, it depends how Sakurai works him.
Every newcomer we have gotten so far, Sakurai has made work in a way we didn't expect (we didn't expect WFT at all).

•For Pac Man, people just hate the modern Pac Man. So do I.
But Sakurai said 3rd parties have to be gaming all stars.
I think after Mario, Mega Man, and Sonic, Pac Man is the definition of Gaming All Star.
He can look like his modern self, but not speak and just make classic sound effects and use classic moves.
I think Chrom is one of the coolest Fire Emblem characters, but your reasons aren't why he will work, but why he CAN work...and not in a good way.

It's not the fact that Chrom can't be unique because he has a sword, but rather that his sword is basically the same as Marth's.

You keep saying what he CAN use, but never focus on what he most likely WILL use. Using his sword to perform magic is not something Chrom is known for any more than Marth or Ike. You keep saying he CAN use Lances and Axes, but does he hardly ever?

I mean Sakurai could have made Falco unique in tons of ways. Star Fox Assualt had Bazookas, grenades, and machine guns. But, instead Sakurai made him a clone of Fox. This is most likely because he's MEANT to be a clone of Fox and that would be more true to his character than a bunch of insignificant items that he technically has used before. Yeah, Sakurai COULD give Falco all those weapons, but he's not going to.

And what is this claim that Sakurai makes newcomers work in ways we didn't expect. Is that you're way of justifying making a move set that doesn't make sense? What if we DID expect it? At least what we didn't expect made sense. Just because it's unexpected doesn't mean the move set making process is completely out of whack and unorganized.

Like you said: It depends on how Sakurai works on him. Well, maybe you should focus on how Sakurai has worked on past characters and not how YOU and other Smash fans would work on characters if you were in his place. When we come up with move sets it's not always logical to assume he has the same thing in mind. Most likely due to Sakurai having criteria for what characters become clones and what characters don't, the LIKELY outcome is that Chrom would be seen as "Marth clone". Whether or not you see that as "fair" or "justified" will not matter to Sakurai if he sees it that way. He's made many unfair and unjustified decisions on characters.

And Pac-Man is another example. People call bull**** when we say "Oh, Pac-Man has no move potential. He's not interesting". Then comes the defenses of "Oh, Pac-Man can have stuff from Pac-Man World!" "Sakurai made Falcon work so he can make ANYBODY work".

Again, just because he CAN doesn't mean he will. I believe that Sakurai wants Third-Parties that ALREADY have promising results if put in the game. Not ones that require him to improvise and invent his own things. Especially when we're talking about a non nintendo character that is going to take up a slot.

We need to remember that how WE would make a character work is not the same as how SAKURAI would make a character work. So bringing up all this insignificant and/or trivial source material is a weak defense to back up your character.

You shouldn't add stuff that's barely significant JUST because it makes a character unique.

Yes, Chrom uses Lances (and axes?), but if Chrom is brought to Sakurai's attention, but I don't think he's gonna say "Okay, this guy is a lot like Chrom. So what can we do to make him ANY different?". That's not what he did with Leif, the protagonist of 2 Fire Emblem games. He passed on to the next character suggestion. The lances and axes aren't iconic to Chrom's character like King Dedede's Hammer or Roy's fire. Unless Chrom is essential like Mario or Captain Falcon then I don't think he's gonna try very hard to make him unique before realizing there is probably a better character to choose from. I'm just basing that on how he's done stuff before.
 

Morbi

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Sakurai doesn't even need to go to Intelligent Systems to understand that Chrom is the most ideal choice, so the notion is moot. He isn't as incompetent as many (even myself) assert. I am sure that he understands that Chrom is going to be the character that everyone expects. This isn't to say that Roy couldn't return. It is entirely possible, in fact, I would assume that this is the most likely scenario. Roy is an easy to develop clone that is near the top of the request chart. If it comes down to only one though, it will probably depend on development time. Roy if he is running behind, or Chrom if he is on-schedule.
 

TheLastJinjo

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@ Louie G. Louie G. Robin is more likely than Chrom because he serves more importance to Awakening than Chrom and would actually be different from Marth. Heck he'd be one of the most unique choices available.

Also, no need for the avatar prejudice.
 

BKupa666

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That isn't my mentality. I do not know where that is implied in anything I stated (it is merely an assumption). I already have characters that I like in the game, I have survived without my favorites for a long time. It is more about laughing at people. I mean, if I am not interested in having characters that everyone else wants... I am jealous? That is an odd proclamation; however, it is fine. It is to be expected, one does not simply laugh at the established "ideal" choices and expect to walk away unscathed.
Well, there has to be some reason you "have a lot of salt," unless that was just part of an extended cooking metaphor, and presumably, that would be because "so many people support fan favorites" instead of the hipster choices. Substitute 'jealous' for 'petty' if you so choose.
 

Robert of Normandy

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Sure, but I doubt that with an important game like Awakening that Sakurai wouldn't ask.
Why would he have to? Can't he make a decision on who to include on his own?

I swear, some people think that Sakurai wouldn't take a s*** unless he walked over to the IS office and asked them if they'd allow it first.
Chrom nor Robin are extremely important yet. They aren't obvious choices or mascots to the franchise.
If neither of them are that important, why the rush in including either of them?

And if, in all other aspects, Chrom and Robin are equal, why wouldn't Robin's uniqueness give him an edge?
 

Louie G.

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@ Louie G. Louie G. Robin is more likely than Chrom because he serves more importance to Awakening than Chrom and would actually be different from Marth. Heck he'd be one of the most unique choices available.

Also, no need for the avatar prejudice.
Hey Saturn, can you please explain to me what it is exactly that makes Robin so unique?

And what do you mean by avatar prejudice? Speaking of I am liking yours.
 

Morbi

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Well, there has to be some reason you "have a lot of salt," unless that was just part of an extended cooking metaphor, and presumably, that would be because "so many people support fan favorites," like you claimed. Substitute 'jealous' for 'petty' if you so choose.
Yes, I would prefer the most accurate insult, one that actually pertains to my statements. Thank you very much.

Why would he have to? Can't he make a decision on who to include on his own?

I swear, some people think that Sakurai wouldn't take a s*** unless he walked over to the IS office and asked them if they'd allow it first.

If neither of them are that important, why the rush in including either of them?

And if, in all other aspects, Chrom and Robin are equal, why wouldn't Robin's uniqueness give him an edge?
It isn't about what they would allow, it is about their suggestion. Maybe you didn't notice what Smash is and how it is marketed. Perhaps you missed the entire point of Sakurai consulting with other development companies. Maybe you cannot comprehend the notion that he CAN add whoever the hell he wants, that doesn't mean he should. He needs to speak with Intelligent Systems to understand what they are promoting so that Smash stays relevant for more than a year. He needs a more thorough understanding of who is ideal based on the actual developers opinion as opposed to generic Miiverse accounts and insignificant polls. Speaking with them is beneficial to Smash, it is beneficial to Intelligent Systems, and most importantly, it is important to Nintendo.
 

Robert of Normandy

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It's not the fact that Chrom can't be unique because he has a sword, but rather that his sword is basically the same as Marth's.
That's not actually true.
[collapse="Maarth holding his Falchion"]
[/collapse]
[collapse="Chrom holding his Falchion"]
[/collapse]
Falchion was reforged in between FE3 and Awkanening. Chrom carries his Falchion differently from Marth, and is honestly closer to Ike.
 

Mega Bidoof

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I think Chrom is one of the coolest Fire Emblem characters, but your reasons aren't why he will work, but why he CAN work...and not in a good way.

It's not the fact that Chrom can't be unique because he has a sword, but rather that his sword is basically the same as Marth's.

You keep saying what he CAN use, but never focus on what he most likely WILL use. Using his sword to perform magic is not something Chrom is known for any more than Marth or Ike. You keep saying he CAN use Lances and Axes, but does he hardly ever?

I mean Sakurai could have made Falco unique in tons of ways. Star Fox Assualt had Bazookas, grenades, and machine guns. But, instead Sakurai made him a clone of Fox. This is most likely because he's MEANT to be a clone of Fox and that would be more true to his character than a bunch of insignificant items that he technically has used before. Yeah, Sakurai COULD give Falco all those weapons, but he's not going to.

And what is this claim that Sakurai makes newcomers work in ways we didn't expect. Is that you're way of justifying making a move set that doesn't make sense? What if we DID expect it? At least what we didn't expect made sense. Just because it's unexpected doesn't mean the move set making process is completely out of whack and unorganized.

Like you said: It depends on how Sakurai works on him. Well, maybe you should focus on how Sakurai has worked on past characters and not how YOU and other Smash fans would work on characters if you were in his place. When we come up with move sets it's not always logical to assume he has the same thing in mind. Most likely due to Sakurai having criteria for what characters become clones and what characters don't, the LIKELY outcome is that Chrom would be seen as "Marth clone". Whether or not you see that as "fair" or "justified" will not matter to Sakurai if he sees it that way. He's made many unfair and unjustified decisions on characters.

And Pac-Man is another example. People call bull**** when we say "Oh, Pac-Man has no move potential. He's not interesting". Then comes the defenses of "Oh, Pac-Man can have stuff from Pac-Man World!" "Sakurai made Falcon work so he can make ANYBODY work".

Again, just because he CAN doesn't mean he will. I believe that Sakurai wants Third-Parties that ALREADY have promising results if put in the game. Not ones that require him to improvise and invent his own things. Especially when we're talking about a non nintendo character that is going to take up a slot.

We need to remember that how WE would make a character work is not the same as how SAKURAI would make a character work. So bringing up all this insignificant and/or trivial source material is a weak defense to back up your character.

You shouldn't add stuff that's barely significant JUST because it makes a character unique.

Yes, Chrom uses Lances (and axes?), but if Chrom is brought to Sakurai's attention, but I don't think he's gonna say "Okay, this guy is a lot like Chrom. So what can we do to make him ANY different?". That's not what he did with Leif, the protagonist of 2 Fire Emblem games. He passed on to the next character suggestion. The lances and axes aren't iconic to Chrom's character like King Dedede's Hammer or Roy's fire. Unless Chrom is essential like Mario or Captain Falcon then I don't think he's gonna try very hard to make him unique before realizing there is probably a better character to choose from. I'm just basing that on how he's done stuff before.
Let me rephrase my statement.
Axes and lances etc. would be a last shot resort for Chrom not to be a clone.
I have no clue how, but Chrom can be unique from Marth, I just know it.
Sakurai can make it work.

With Pac-Man, he has so much moveset potential. In fact, I will make up a moveset right here, on the spot.

B- Pac Bite: self-explanatory, works like Wario's Chimp

Side B- Rev Roll: again, self-explanatory.

Up B- Dot Chain: he freezes if in air, and a chain of dots starts coming out of Pac-Man, and you can control were it goes (like PK Thunder) and then Pac-Man follows the trailer you made with his mouth. When you draw the trail, if the end touches someone, they get stuck there until Pac-Man bite them.
And both his arms and legs will contract into his body for a classic feel during this attack too.

Down B- Cherry : holds up a cherry which is a deflector. I couldn't think of a lot of things for his Down B, and I didn't want to use his Butt Bounce, that should be a down-air.

Final Smash- Power Pellet: Everyone has said this over 9,000 times. I don't even need to explain it.
 

Robert of Normandy

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It isn't about what they would allow, it is about their suggestion. Maybe you didn't notice what Smash is and how it is marketed. Perhaps you missed the entire point of Sakurai consulting with other development companies. Maybe you cannot comprehend the notion that he CAN add whoever the hell he wants, that doesn't mean he should. He needs to speak with Intelligent Systems to understand what they are promoting so that Smash stays relevant for more than a year. He needs a more thorough understanding of who is ideal based on the actual developers opinion as opposed to generic Miiverse accounts and insignificant polls. Speaking with them is beneficial to Smash, it is beneficial to Intelligent Systems, and most importantly, it is important to Nintendo.
I'm sorry, I must have missed how much marketing IS was doing for Marth's games during Melee's development.

And again, SAKURAI IS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO ASK INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS WHO TO ADD. He has ONLY asked for their help when he didn't have a good idea on who to include.
 

TheLastJinjo

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The most likely outcome is that Sakurai will start off with the idea of bringing back Roy before seeing if IS can suggest something better. This means Chrom would have to outdo Roy. Currently Roy has fire and in Awakening DLC he has axes. So Chrom would have to have some sort of weapon or special ability that is more unique than that or that Roy couldn't physically perform himself. And Chrom's not looking too strong in that situation.
 

Louie G.

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The most likely outcome is that Sakurai will start off with the idea of bringing back Roy before seeing if IS can suggest something better. This means Chrom would have to outdo Roy. Currently Roy has fire and in Awakening DLC he has axes. So Chrom would have to have some sort of weapon or special ability that is more unique than that or that Roy couldn't physically perform himself. And Chrom's not looking too strong in that situation.
Wait, so...
Roy can use an axe...
But Chrom can't use a javelin....
:urg:
 

Morbi

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I'm sorry, I must have missed how much marketing IS was doing for Marth's games during Melee's development.

And again, SAKURAI IS UNDER NO OBLIGATION TO ASK INTELLIGENT SYSTEMS WHO TO ADD. He has ONLY asked for their help when he didn't have a good idea on who to include.
Um. Okay, if you don't understand, that is fine. I can't make it much more concise without berating you.
 

Robert of Normandy

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The most likely outcome is that Sakurai will start off with the idea of bringing back Roy before seeing if IS can suggest something better.
Why is that the most likely scenario? I think it's honestly just as likely that he'd just decide to bring back Roy, or would just pick an Awakening character right off the bat.

Tl;dr : we don't know what Sakurai will do with regards to Fire Emblem.
 

BluePikmin11

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I just simply imagine Chrom as a balance between Marth's speed and Ike's power.
The most likely outcome is that Sakurai will start off with the idea of bringing back Roy before seeing if IS can suggest something better. This means Chrom would have to outdo Roy. Currently Roy has fire and in Awakening DLC he has axes. So Chrom would have to have some sort of weapon or special ability that is more unique than that or that Roy couldn't physically perform himself. And Chrom's not looking too strong in that situation.
Give Chrom's sword electricity.
Now that would be badass. :troll:
 

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Between Chrom and the Avatar, I'd say both are likely, but each has his own reasons to be in. I do admit that the idea of a tag team consisting of both would be interesting.

Now, let me be clear on this one: Tharja will definitely not be a character. The best she may be is an Assist Trophy, but I wouldn't count on her being anything more than a normal trophy.
 

TheLastJinjo

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With Pac-Man, he has so much moveset potential. In fact, I will make up a moveset right here, on the spot.

B- Pac Bite: self-explanatory, works like Wario's Chimp

Side B- Rev Roll: again, self-explanatory.

Up B- Dot Chain: he freezes if in air, and a chain of dots starts coming out of Pac-Man, and you can control were it goes (like PK Thunder) and then Pac-Man follows the trailer you made with his mouth. When you draw the trail, if the end touches someone, they get stuck there until Pac-Man bite them.
And both his arms and legs will contract into his body for a classic feel during this attack too.

Down B- Cherry : holds up a cherry which is a deflector. I couldn't think of a lot of things for his Down B, and I didn't want to use his Butt Bounce, that should be a down-air.

Final Smash- Power Pellet: Everyone has said this over 9,000 times. I don't even need to explain it.
Considering how unoriginal that move set is and that you admit you came up with it right on the spot, I would NOT use that when defending that Pac-Man can be interesting and unique.

I know I won't offend you since you didn't invent the majority of the move set, but whoever did clearly proved that even putting your best into it can't make Pac-Man unique. That move set was phoned in beyond belief. I mean, biting and ROLLING? Maybe try to find a way to implement the ghosts, but even that's pushing it.
 

Mega Bidoof

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Considering how unoriginal that move set is and that you admit you came up with it right on the spot, I would NOT use that when defending that Pac-Man can be interesting and unique.

I know I won't offend you since you didn't invent the majority of the move set, but whoever did clearly proved that even putting your best into it can't make Pac-Man unique. That move set was phoned in beyond belief. I mean, biting and ROLLING? Maybe try to find a way to implement the ghosts, but even that's pushing it.
I just kind of did that so people can't say Pac-Man has NO potential.
If I tried hard enough, I could have a half-decent one.
 
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