Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Hotfeet444]

In most recent Zelda games staring Ganondorf, I'm thinking OoT and TP mainly here, Ganondorf is the main antagonist and appears several times (here I'm thinking OoT in particular seeing as Zant takes his sweet time getting the chop in TP). He's the big scary guy whose terrifying true nature isn't revealed until the end. I like that Brawl had him as a final smash, as Beast Ganon is demonstrably more powerful in the Zelda canon, appearing only when Ganondorf is at death's door. The current Ganondorf/Ganon relationship in Smash is similar to how the Zelda games portray it and that's how I'd like it to stay.

You could also include Wind Waker in there since it's technically the same Ganondorf, but I see what you're getting at. Ganondorf is still the most important part of the "Ganon-esque" category to represent, which is part of why I am literally questioning why when it comes to a Skyward Sword villain that people think Ghirahim has any chance over Demise, the main villain is always more important.

That Ridley again huh? Can he even fit into the thread?

Don't worry, the thread isn't canon.

 

[Opossum]

That Ridley again huh? Can he even fit into the thread? Well I'd like to back up my Chrom replacing Ike prediction since I just now noticed a FE awakening stage in the 3ds version.

The thing that really pokes a hole in the "Chrom replacing Ike" thing just because of the stage, is that Sakurai said in the most recent interview that he currently has not cut anyone, so any potential cuts would be from time constraints, not replacements. That being said, I think Chrom has an okay shot, but only in addition to Ike, not as a replacement.

 

[Silverjay323]

You could also include Wind Waker in there since it's technically the same Ganondorf, but I see what you're getting at. Ganondorf is still the most important part of the "Ganon-esque" category to represent, which is part of why I am literally questioning why when it comes to a Skyward Sword villain that people think Ghirahim has any chance over Demise, the main villain is always more important.

Can't we have Ganondorf and Ghirahim and just not have another Link?

The thing that really pokes a hole in the "Chrom replacing Ike" thing just because of the stage, is that Sakurai said in the most recent interview that he currently has not cut anyone, so any potential cuts would be from time constraints, not replacements. That being said, I think Chrom has an okay shot, but only in addition to Ike, not as a replacement.

"Currently" So that could still change. Plus having both Ike and Chrom is kinda redundant.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Can't we have Ganondorf and Ghirahim and just not have another Link?

I'd personally prefer Ganondorf and Demise, that way you can have both ultimate lords of evil duke it out to see who is truly the most powerful evil lord in the world. I know this is obvious, but Demise would probably win.

 

[Starbound]

I think it'd be awesome if Ganondorf took moves from his OoT Human form, Demise and used Pig Ganon's Trident.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Ganon never had a human form.

 

[Silverjay323]

Ganon never had a human form.

.....Ganondorf?

 

[FlareHabanero]

.....Ganondorf?

...

I'm still waiting for someone to point out the human form.

 

[Silverjay323]

...

I'm still waiting for someone to point out the human form.

Gerudo =/= to human? I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Hotfeet444]

.....Ganondorf?

Gerudo are not humans.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Gerudo =/= to human? I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

You got it, Gerudos and humans are not one in the same.

 

[Silverjay323]

Gerudo are not humans.

Humanoid then. -_-

 

[Hotfeet444]

You got it, Gerudos and humans are not one in the same.

Neither are Hylians...or Kokiri...or pretty much any other humanoid species in LoZ.

 

[Opossum]

"Currently" So that could still change. Plus having both Ike and Chrom is kinda redundant.

As in, he has no plans for cuts. Especially a really popular character for a character that isn't as highly regarded (and this is coming from a legitimate Chrom supporter: he's not gonna be in if it means cutting Ike).

Chrom and Ike can be rather easily differentiated. Chrom may not be the most exciting prospective character, but I'm still working on a Chrom moveset to show that. He could go a few ways: Pair-Up mechanic, Weapon Switch, using the Pedestal of Flames, etc. He can be plenty unique. Although, he'll probably just get a Counter Down+B like Marth, Ike, and Roy, but the rest can easily be different.

 

[AEMehr]

Ganon never had a human form.

Are you seriously going to go into technicalities.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Are you seriously going to go into technicalities.

If I wasn't being technical, you'd see me call Samus "Metroid" and think Marth is Ike's sister.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

So I've got a question for you all. Do any of you know if there is currently a podcast/video series highlighting Sm4sh, that specifically talks about reasons for a character's inclusion as well as chances? I've been kinda wanting to make a video series like that if that isn't really a thing yet, so I thought if it was a thing, the people here would know about it.

I guess the next question would be, would anyone watch/listen to something like that if it were a thing? Just an idea I was thinking about doing if there was any interest in the topic.

 

[IsmaR]

If I wasn't being technical, you'd see me call Samus "Metroid" and think Marth is Ike's sister.

To be fair, Samus is technically part Metroid.

Spoiler

 

[mimgrim]

As in, he has no plans for cuts. Especially a really popular character for a character that isn't as highly regarded (and this is coming from a legitimate Chrom supporter: he's not gonna be in if it means cutting Ike).

.....Do you actually know how popular Chrom is? I'm not talking about Smash popularity here but popularity among the FE fanbase. In the FEA gender poll Chrom was voted as most popular male lord for FEA, http://www.nintendo.co.jp/fe/kakusei_bk/kekka/index.html. Another thing to consider is the PoR and RD didn't do so great in Japan. The thing about Ike is that he is popular to people who have played SSB but not FE. But among the FE fanbase Chrom is pretty highly regarded and is much more popular than you think. I can't find any recent lord polls to show which lord is more popular but I think it would bet to say that Chrom is probably a bit more popular (and this is coming from a person who prefers Ike over Chrom).

 

[Opossum]

.....Do you actually know how popular Chrom is? I'm not talking about Smash popularity here but popularity among the FE fanbase. In the FEA gender poll Chrom was voted as most popular male lord for FEA, http://www.nintendo.co.jp/fe/kakusei_bk/kekka/index.html. Another thing to consider is the PoR and RD didn't do so great in Japan. The thing about Ike is that he is popular to people who have played SSB but not FE. But among the FE fanbase Chrom is pretty highly regarded and is much more popular than you think. I can't find any recent lord polls to show which lord is more popular but I think it would bet to say that Chrom is probably a bit more popular (and this is coming from a person who prefers Ike over Chrom).

I do know that Chrom is popular among the FE fanbase, trust me. However, as certain polls have shown (you can ask ManlySpirit for the link to his poll, or Chronobound for his various polls and resources), Ike is still pretty much the most popular lord in the Western fanbase for Fire Emblem, due to them having a larger affinity for really strong lords.

 

[FlareHabanero]

But among the FE fanbase Chrom is pretty highly regarded and is much more popular than you think.

I've seen him ranked lower on other polls, and I've seen opinions on him being rather mixed. He's generally claimed to be bland, but competent, among the fans of Fire Emblem. I've seen his daughter Lucina more highly regarded overall.

 

[mimgrim]

I do know that Chrom is popular among the FE fanbase, trust me. However, as certain polls have shown (you can ask ManlySpirit for the link to his poll, or Chronobound for his various polls and resources), Ike is still pretty much the most popular lord in the Western fanbase for Fire Emblem, due to them having a larger affinity for really strong lords.

Oh I won't deny the Ike is probably more popular in the western fanbase, but I think the Japanese gets a bit more priority over us here in the West. :L

I've seen him ranked lower on other polls, and I've seen opinions on him being rather mixed. He's generally claimed to be bland, but competent, among the fans of Fire Emblem. I've seen his daughter Lucina more highly regarded overall.

Western polls or Eastern polls? It does make a bit a of a difference you know, unfourtantly. x_x

 

[jaytalks]

here is that Manly Spirit poll for the popularity of all the lords:
http://www.easypolls.net/poll.html?p=51763efee4b0bd1609c69c04
Tied for first place is Ike from PoR and RD and the fan favorite lord from the most recent game in the series, Fire Emblem: Awakening, Lucina.
Both are tied with 13%.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

I think Awakening IS the most successful game in the series... from a Japanese perspective at least. It has sold half a million copies, and the fact that it did so well in Japan is the probably the sole reason that FE 13 will be the first in the series to eclipse 1 million sales. And yes, games like PoR and Radiant Dawn performed better in the West than in Japan. Chrom probably did make a better impression on the ***. gaming population than Ike, because his game is better known. Needless to say, I still view Ike as a more representative Fire Emblem figure than Chrom, regardless of how successful his games were.

 

[PlatinumGamer64]

I can't see Chrom replacing Ike at all even if he is the newest FE rep. It's just pointless.

 

[Silverjay323]

.....Do you actually know how popular Chrom is? I'm not talking about Smash popularity here but popularity among the FE fanbase. In the FEA gender poll Chrom was voted as most popular male lord for FEA, http://www.nintendo.co.jp/fe/kakusei_bk/kekka/index.html. Another thing to consider is the PoR and RD didn't do so great in Japan. The thing about Ike is that he is popular to people who have played SSB but not FE. But among the FE fanbase Chrom is pretty highly regarded and is much more popular than you think. I can't find any recent lord polls to show which lord is more popular but I think it would bet to say that Chrom is probably a bit more popular (and this is coming from a person who prefers Ike over Chrom).

I do know that Chrom is popular among the FE fanbase, trust me. However, as certain polls have shown (you can ask ManlySpirit for the link to his poll, or Chronobound for his various polls and resources), Ike is still pretty much the most popular lord in the Western fanbase for Fire Emblem, due to them having a larger affinity for really strong lords.

Has popularity even had that much of an influence on first party character inclusions? I mean, the choices for brawl weren't exactly on the top of the list.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

^Even third party. Sure Sonic was based on popularity... but Snake, was he even really wanted prior to Brawl's unveiling?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Has popularity even had that much of an influence on first party character inclusions? I mean, the choices for brawl weren't exactly on the top of the list.

UH.

Wario , Meta Knight, Dedede, Pit, etc... to name a few. They were some of the most popular choices for Brawl.

 

[IsmaR]

^Even third party. Sure Sonic was based on popularity... but Snake, was he even really wanted prior to Brawl's unveiling?

Considering Kojima wanted Sakurai to add him in Melee, there's always been some odd popularity for him. Most people just never take it seriously.

 

[Silverjay323]

UH.

Wario , Meta Knight, Dedede, Pit, etc... to name a few. They were some of the most popular choices for Brawl.

Pretty sure Pit wasn't requested...he was practically forgotten before brawl. MK and DDD mostly got in cause y'know Sakurai's a little biased. Wario...I didn't know people wanted him. I was talking about the most requested at the time. (when people were still asking for Ridley and K.Rool) They didn't make it. Of course the characters that did had SOME form of requests from fans and popularity matters, but in these lists of the most requested, people act as if just because polls say no.1 means they're guaranteed a spot, or characters below it don't have as much of a chance. So just because Chrom may have more or less popularity doesn't necessarily grant or neglect him a spot.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

Snake.... as much of a unique character he may be and as much as I and many others love him, is he even deserving to be in Smash? I mean, he isn't as iconic as Sonic or Megaman, and although the Metal Gear franchise is critically acclaimed, it stand nowhere near Sonic or Megaman. Plus, MGS 5 isn't even coming to Wii U, and Raiden was in Playstaion All Stars to rep Metal Gear. I honestly think that Snake should go, as I never really understood why he was there in the first place. Kojima's begging should not exactly warrant Snake as a playable character.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Snake.... as much of a unique character he may be and as much as I and many others love him, is he even deserving to be in Smash? I mean, he isn't as iconic as Sonic or Megaman, and although the Metal Gear franchise is critically acclaimed, it stand nowhere near Sonic or Megaman. Plus, MGS 5 isn't even coming to Wii U, and Raiden was in Playstaion All Stars to rep Metal Gear. I honestly think that Snake should go, as I never really understood why he was there in the first place. Kojima's begging should not exactly warrant Snake as a playable character.

If Snake goes, Sonic goes. Plain and simple. While it's a business, Sakurai surely wouldn't play favorites and pick Sonic and leave Snake out. That would just be a d*** move. If one of your closest friends asked you to do something similar, and it was well received afterward, why get rid of it? I could understand if he was the overall most hated character, but he isn't, by far.

 

[PlatinumGamer64]

Snake.... as much of a unique character he may be and as much as I and many others love him, is he even deserving to be in Smash? I mean, he isn't as iconic as Sonic or Megaman, and although the Metal Gear franchise is critically acclaimed, it stand nowhere near Sonic or Megaman. Plus, MGS 5 isn't even coming to Wii U, and Raiden was in Playstaion All Stars to rep Metal Gear. I honestly think that Snake should go, as I never really understood why he was there in the first place. Kojima's begging should not exactly warrant Snake as a playable character.

I don't think him OR Sonic will return. As crazy as that may seem (imagining the future of SSB without Sonic) to be fair Third-Party Characters may be removed to make room for more Nintendo characters. Sonic should step aside to give Mega Man a turn. I just predict any third-party characters will be a one time thing. But, Smash brothers doesn't come around very often so it may not be so.

However the possibility of cutting characters a mentioned by Masahiro Sakurai, it only makes sense to remove any non Nintendo characters (As beloved and long requested as Sonic is.)

 

[Silverjay323]

I don't think him OR Sonic will return. As crazy as that may seem (imagining the future of SSB without Sonic) to be fair Third-Party Characters may be removed to make room for more Nintendo characters. Sonic should step aside to give Mega Man a turn. I just predict any third-party characters will be a one time thing. But, Smash brothers doesn't come around very often so it may not be so.

However the possibility of cutting characters a mentioned by Masahiro Sakurai, it only makes sense to remove any non Nintendo characters (As beloved and long requested as Sonic is.)

Um Sonic isn't going anywhere with Nintendo's and SEGA current business relationship. Plus Sonic IS part of Nintendo's history, much more so than Snake. The old rivalry between him and Mario made him perfect for Smash Bros. If one third party has to leave, it'd be Snake. I don't think either is getting removed personally.

 

[PlatinumGamer64]

Um Sonic isn't going anywhere with Nintendo's and SEGA current business relationship. Plus Sonic IS part of Nintendo's history, much more so than Snake. The old rivalry between him and Mario made him perfect for Smash Bros. If one third party has to leave, it'd be Snake. I don't think either is getting removed personally.

Can't be too sure.

Gerudo are not humans.

But, they are Human FORM

 

[Sebz]

I really wouldn't mind it if Ike got the, uhm, axe . I remember playing PoR and thinking he was rather bland.

 

[ZeldaMaster]

I do think that third party characters should not exist in Smash in the first place because I believe Smash should be and only be a Nintendo All-Star Fighter. But if they are to exist in SSB4 as proven by Megaman, then Sonic is the most worthy third-party character to be included, because I believe him to be more iconic and influential to Nintendo then even Megaman (yes, I said it). Snake, on the other hand, hasn't had nearly the amount of influence as Sonic or Megaman, and in recent years, his relevance to Nintendo is steeply declining. A Metal Gear Game did not even exist on Wii, and with MGS 5 not being developed for Wii U, perhaps a game of his will never exist on the platform. And plus, Kojima requested Snake after The Twin Snakes on Gamecube... at a time when Metal Gear's future on the Wii was uncertain. Now, Metal Gear has found it's home on other consoles, specifically Playstation. Bear in mind that I do love Snake as a character, it's just the fact that I don't find him as deserving as characters such as Ike, Lucario, Toon Link, etc. to make a comeback, because he isn't a Nintendo character and is not as meaningful as a his other third party counterparts, Sonic and Megaman.

 

[PlatinumGamer64]

I really wouldn't mind it if Ike got the, uhm, axe . I remember playing PoR and thinking he was rather bland.

Only person worthy of replacing Ike is Roy. Otherwise Ike must stay.

Also the reason I don't think Sonic will return is because he already got a chance. It's Mega Man's turn.

...

I'm still waiting for someone to point out the human form.

 

[FalKoopa]

I really wouldn't mind it if Ike got the, uhm, axe . I remember playing PoR and thinking he was rather bland.

Eh, almost all FE Lords are bland, you know.

Welcome to SmashBoards by the way.

 

[PlatinumGamer64]

A few things need to be cleared about characters getting in because of popularity

1. Recent appearance does not equal popularity.
2. The characters appearing in SSB4 are NOT limited to the popular predictions of Smashfans nor the most desired.
3. Not appearing in a game for a while (or since) does not change how popular a character WAS and still IS.
4. Being recent does not override all flaws in a character choice. Being recent will NOT be an excuse for characters like Chrom or Dark Pit. (Not to mistakenly compare the choice of Chrom to the choice of Dark Pit. Also not saying Chrom isn't unique, but he will only get in if he's unique enough and NOT because when Fire Emblem Awakening came out)

A character is chosen based on Popularity and potential. Not recency or lack of recency. Dillon won't get in because he had 2 eShop games that just came out. And characters can't be immediately denied because they haven't appeared in the latest installment of a game.

There is a difference between recency and obscurity.
There are some people who will pick and reject characters based solely on when their games came out and nothing else.