Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Starcutter]

I meant to reply to ScatmansWorld25

There is an edit post button, use it!

 

[Autumn ♫]

I'm unsure of Vaati's chances since he wasn't even a sticker in Brawl. Nintendo really dropped the ball with that one...

Not very many big characters got much of anything, most of the Zelda things were ripped from Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. But, with Vaati's being remade and having a 3DS ambassador at the time Sakurai was considering the roster really seems to help his chances.

 

[Arcadenik]

I wouldn't mind Impa as the 5th Zelda character if they separate Zelda and Sheik... and replaced Sheik with Impa... but I also wouldn't mind Tingle as the 5th Zelda character if they kept Zelda / Sheik together.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Haha. It is so funny how everyone was pretending to be excited for Dedede.

Dedede is one of my mains, so I was very excited to see him. I still am, actually.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

See, the whole replacing veterans with Newcomers idea doesn't make a lick of sense.

Is giving Impa Sheik's moveset worthy of deeming Impa a "Newcomer"? **** no. Of course not. She's not even important.

Not to mention, Sheik being irrelevant in itself is irrelevant. That isn't why she got in, and if it was a reason to remove her, she would have been dropped for Brawl. She got in because it was a gimmick to be given to Zelda to make her unique and because Sheik was an alternate identity.

Obviously, Impa will not be a part of Zelda's moveset because that wouldn't make any sense. I also see the idea of Sakurai getting rid of Sheik for one move as a terrible assumption. Why would Sakurai, the guy who decided to add Sheik, which turned out to be a fan favorite character for a lot of people, drop Sheik for one move? Spoiler alert, he isn't going to do that. Otherwise he's an idiot.

Really though, Impa is not important. Sure, she protects Zelda. But as I've said before, that's as far as she goes. Maybe she reappears, but so do a lot of things in the Zelda Universe.

That painting in WW? As I've said, she's just a sage, and is therefore important as the rest of them, and no more in this instance. This is the same for every title she appears in, save for SS.

The whole sentiment has never existed in Smash. Not a single character has been deliberately replaced with a character who then retains the former character's moveset. Lucario is not a clone of Mewtwo before anybody says it. It has never happened, and with Sakurai looking to cut as few as possible, it isn't likely to happen this time either.

Characters need to be able to catch Sakurai's eye with something that they can provide, not something that requires a different character to be given up. Many proposed characters fit this bill, including many of the top choices.

This is why I am against Chrom replacing Ike as well. It's just stupid. If the character cannot provide something without having an already present character remain, then that character should not be added in the first place.

 

[andimidna]

Wasn't the 3ds thing just a remake? I mean, Capcom made both of Vaati's major appearances. I'm just unsure because of all of the Zelda games since Brawl, and the upcoming Zelda U. I just want to add I definitely hope Zelda gets a 5th and deserves it, Zelda got more games than any Nintendo series since Brawl except Mario, right? Plus, the return of Trainer, Lucario, and Mewtwo seem likely. I'm expecting 5 for Pokemon. Mario has 5. I think Zelda needs 5. And I'm pretty sure Shiek is returning.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Wasn't the 3ds thing just a remake? I mean, Capcom made both of Vaati's major appearances. I'm just unsure because of all of the Zelda games since Brawl, and the upcoming Zelda U. I just want to add I definitely hope Zelda gets a 5th and deserves it, Zelda got more games than any Nintendo series since Brawl except Mario, right? Plus, the return of Trainer, Lucario, and Mewtwo seem likely. I'm expecting 5 for Pokemon. Mario has 5. I think Zelda needs 5. And I'm pretty sure Shiek is returning.

The 3DS thing was an Ambassador, I'm not sure what 4 Swords Anniversary edition was for though, and Nintendo made Vaati's first major appearence, in 4-Swords.

 

[NickerBocker]

The 3DS thing was an Ambassador, I'm not sure what 4 Swords Anniversary edition was for though, and Nintendo made Vaati's first major appearence, in 4-Swords.

The anniversary was just for the Zelda series in general, i believe. They offered Four Swords Anniversary Edition for free to anyone who owned a 3DS to celebrate 25 years of Zelda. The Four Swords game had additional content when compared to the original version.

I don't believe that it had anything to do with being an ambassador, but I could be wrong because I was fortunate enough to claim such a title

 

[Richard Nixon]

Zelda's a difficult subject. It's obvious that it warrants a fifth slot, but there's so many potential characters that could fill that slot, and none of them stand out in particular. It probably just comes down to whichever character appeals most to Sakurai's imagination. Then again, pretty much any newcomer at this point comes down to that.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see Zelda not get a newcomer at all, though that would be kinda disappointing.

 

[Morbi]

Zelda's a difficult subject. It's obvious that it warrants a fifth slot, but there's so many potential characters that could fill that slot, and none of them stand out in particular. It probably just comes down to whichever character appeals most to Sakurai's imagination. Then again, pretty much any newcomer at this point comes down to that.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see Zelda not get a newcomer at all, though that would be kinda disappointing.

I would be pretty surprised considering the the series has only really grown since pre-Brawl and Sakurai was already planning on adding 2 Zelda Newcomers for Brawl.

 

[Arcadenik]

The whole sentiment has never existed in Smash. Not a single character has been deliberately replaced with a character who then retains the former character's moveset. Lucario is not a clone of Mewtwo before anybody says it. It has never happened, and with Sakurai looking to cut as few as possible, it isn't likely to happen this time either.

It's already happened in Brawl. Toon Link replaced Young Link... they are both child Links... so why does Impa replacing Sheik not make sense? They are both Sheikahs.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Toon Link replaced Young Link... they are both child Links... so why does Impa replacing Sheik not make sense? They are both Sheikahs.

Toon Link and Impa are completely different situations.

Sheik IS Zelda. Toon Link was basically just a graphical upgrade to Young Link, hardly being his own character. There is also no reason to replace Sheik as it is.

 

[Morbi]

Toon Link replaced Young Link... they are both child Links... so why does Impa replacing Sheik not make sense? They are both Sheikahs.

That is pretty much the perfect example that refutes the claim that it has never been happened before. However, I am sure we will get the generic "he is still young Link" BS. The fact of the matter is that a newcomer did replace a veteran with a congruent move-set. Obviously minor changes occurred like the omission of fire arrows. Why? Because Toon Link is more iconic, relevant, and important. It doesn't matter though, if the notion doesn't make sense to them, they will never understand what it is about (making the roster more cohesive). I do agree with the core of their argument though, Zelda was meant to be with Sheik. I honestly don't want that to change.

Edit: See what I mean? He is a "graphical update". Whatever.

 

[N3ON]

From a Zelda series perspective Impa replacing Sheik makes a lot of sense, but from a Smash perspective Sheik sticking around makes more sense at this point.

 

[Morbi]

From a Zelda series perspective Impa replacing Sheik makes a lot of sense, but from a Smash perspective Sheik sticking around makes more sense at this point.

This. This soooooo much.

Thank you, for some reason I was never able to convey this properly.

 

[NickerBocker]

That is pretty much the perfect example that refutes the claim that it has never been happened before. However, I am sure we will get the generic "he is still young Link" BS. The fact of the matter is that a newcomer did replace a veteran with a congruent move-set. Obviously minor changes occurred like the omission of fire arrows. Why? Because Toon Link is more iconic, relevant, and important. It doesn't matter though, if the notion doesn't make sense to them, they will never understand what it is about (making the roster more cohesive). I do agree with the core of their argument though, Zelda was meant to be with Sheik. I honestly don't want that to change.

Edit: See what I mean? He is a "graphical update". Whatever.

He may be referring to completely different characters, because Link is still Link. Toon Link could have technically taken Link's moveset (not YL) as a clone and Young Link may have been cut.

 

[Arcadenik]

Toon Link and Impa are completely different situations.

Sheik IS Zelda. Toon Link was basically just a graphical upgrade to Young Link, hardly being his own character. There is also no reason to replace Sheik as it is.

Sheik is Zelda, yes... no one is arguing that... and we already have Zelda in Smash... and I would like to separate Zelda and Sheik... give Zelda a new Down+B move... and replace Sheik with Impa... it doesn't make sense for Sheik to be not able to transform into Zelda if she and Zelda are suddenly two separate people in SSB4... so replace Sheik with Impa and retain Sheik's moveset and give her new Down+B and Final Smash moves... so even if we don't have Sheik, we still have Zelda... she is the important one.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

See, the whole replacing veterans with Newcomers idea doesn't make a lick of sense.

Is giving Impa Sheik's moveset worthy of deeming Impa a "Newcomer"? **** no. Of course not. She's not even important.

Not to mention, Sheik being irrelevant in itself is irrelevant. That isn't why she got in, and if it was a reason to remove her, she would have been dropped for Brawl. She got in because it was a gimmick to be given to Zelda to make her unique and because Sheik was an alternate identity.

Obviously, Impa will not be a part of Zelda's moveset because that wouldn't make any sense. I also see the idea of Sakurai getting rid of Sheik for one move as a terrible assumption. Why would Sakurai, the guy who decided to add Sheik, which turned out to be a fan favorite character for a lot of people, drop Sheik for one move? Spoiler alert, he isn't going to do that. Otherwise he's an idiot.

Really though, Impa is not important. Sure, she protects Zelda. But as I've said before, that's as far as she goes. Maybe she reappears, but so do a lot of things in the Zelda Universe.

That painting in WW? As I've said, she's just a sage, and is therefore important as the rest of them, and no more in this instance. This is the same for every title she appears in, save for SS.

The whole sentiment has never existed in Smash. Not a single character has been deliberately replaced with a character who then retains the former character's moveset. Lucario is not a clone of Mewtwo before anybody says it. It has never happened, and with Sakurai looking to cut as few as possible, it isn't likely to happen this time either.

Characters need to be able to catch Sakurai's eye with something that they can provide, not something that requires a different character to be given up. Many proposed characters fit this bill, including many of the top choices.

Not saying impa is likely, but doesn't toon link fall right into what you described? He's basically young link but he was introduced as a newcomer to replace him with minimal changes. I just don't think it would be bad, I'm for the change it would bring, it can be argued to hell and back sure, but we can only stick to tradition for traditions sake for only so long.

Edit: I see others beat me to the punch while I typed this on my phone.

 

[Morbi]

He may be referring to completely different characters, because Link is still Link. Toon Link could have technically taken Link's moveset (not YL) as a clone and Young Link may have been cut.

Toon Link isn't Conductor Link which isn't OoT Link. They are different characters with the same name and essence. I do know what he meant though.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

That is pretty much the perfect example that refutes the claim that it has never been happened before. However, I am sure we will get the generic "he is still young Link" BS. The fact of the matter is that a newcomer did replace a veteran with a congruent move-set. Obviously minor changes occurred like the omission of fire arrows. Why? Because Toon Link is more iconic, relevant, and important. It doesn't matter though, if the notion doesn't make sense to them, they will never understand what it is about (making the roster more cohesive). I do agree with the core of their argument though, Zelda was meant to be with Sheik. I honestly don't want that to change.

Edit: See what I mean? He is a "graphical update". Whatever.

...that's basically all he is. It's the same damn character! He represents the exact same thing, besides a game or two different.

Why would it make sense to not update Young Link with a more relevant style? It wouldn't make sense not to do that. Why would Toon Link use Fire Arrows? It's completely different.

Impa is a character that has always been there, but has ONE game with a big role. She wouldn't and shouldn't replace Sheik because of one appearance that makes people get a hard on.

Sheik is a part of Zelda's moveset because she is Zelda. There is no reason to derail that feature. If it's broken, fix it. Why replace a character that has been there for awhile?

Recency and relevancy aren't going to get Impa in over Sheik. It just isn't a strong argument. It happened with one character that actually made sense to do that with.

Sheik is Zelda, yes... no one is arguing that... and we already have Zelda in Smash... and I would like to separate Zelda and Sheik... give Zelda a new Down+B move... and replace Sheik with Impa... it doesn't make sense for Sheik to be not able to transform into Zelda if she and Zelda are suddenly two separate people in SSB4... so replace Sheik with Impa and retain Sheik's moveset and give her new Down+B and Final Smash moves... so even if we don't have Sheik, we still have Zelda... she is the important one.

Or, just keep the movesets as they are and just fix it to be effective.

 

[Morbi]

...that's basically all he is. It's the same damn character! He represents the exact same thing, besides a game or two different.

Why would it make sense to not update Young Link with a more relevant style? It wouldn't make sense not to do that. Why would Toon Link use Fire Arrows? It's completely different.

Impa is a character that has always been there, but has ONE game with a big role. She wouldn't and shouldn't replace Sheik because of one appearance that makes people get a hard on.

Sheik is a part of Zelda's moveset because she is Zelda. There is no reason to derail that feature. If it's broken, fix it. Why replace a character that has been there for awhile?

Recency and relevancy aren't going to get Impa in over Sheik. It just isn't a strong argument. It happened with one character that actually made sense to do that with.

No. Young Link represents the child aspect of OoT whilst Link represents the adult portion of the game. Together, they represent the hero of time. Toon Link represents the handheld games/Wind Waker's very own "Cat-eyed Link", they are not the same characters.

It does make sense.

That is enough from the Zelda series perspective. She is more important, more iconic, more relevant, and she offers something new aesthetically. As Neon stated, it doesn't make sense for Smash, and I completely and utterly agree.

Yes.

Of course not, but it should (in my opinion).

 

[NickerBocker]

Toon Link isn't Conductor Link which isn't OoT Link. They are different characters with the same name and essence. I do know what he meant though.

The Link part was sort of sarcasm, but yes, every Link is different unless they are direct sequels and intended to be so.

Completely different characters shouldn't take on movesets of characters that aren't related. Impa taking Shieks place could work though, but there wouldnt be much point. Shiek is literally Zelda trying to impersonate a Shiekah, and therefore, Impa. So you might as well leave it how it is to avoid alienating fans that might play as Shiek but know little or nothing about The Legend of Zelda

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

My problem, as I already stated, with replacing Sheik with Impa, is that it doesn't provide anything new for Impa as a newcomer.

Again. If the character in question requires a previous character to be cut, then they shouldn't be added at all. In my eyes, Toon Link is an exception because it made sense to update the appearance of a character. They may be named something different, and represent something different, but it fills the same niche in Smash.

 

[Morbi]

The Link part was sort of sarcasm, but he's an exception to the rule.

Completely different characters shouldn't take on movesets of characters that aren't relatated. Impa taking Shieks place could work though, but there wouldnt be much point. Shiek is literally Zelda trying to impersonate a Shiekah, and therefore, Impa. So you might as well leave it how it is to avoid alienating fans that might play as Shiek but know nothing about Zelda.

I main Sheik, she is certainly one of my favorite characters, so I definitely know the feeling. I do not want Impa to replace one of my favorite characters, I just think that it makes the roster more ideal and cohesive.

Edit: I agree with you, Booker.

 

[Arcadenik]

If it is broken, fix it... yes, I agree... and there's a way to fix it... by separating Zelda and Sheik, buff Zelda's moves and give her a new Down+B... so Zelda doesn't suck as bad as she did in Brawl when it took too damn long for her to complete her transformation... and replace Sheik with Impa because it doesn't make sense for Sheik and Zelda to be two separate individuals in Smash if they are the same person... so replace Sheik with Impa, have Impa retain Sheik's moveset and give her new Down+B and Final Smash moves.

Also, it makes sense for Toon Link to shoot fire arrows... Toon Link did that in The Wind Waker.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I main Sheik, she is certainly one of my favorite characters, so I definitely know the feeling. I do not want Impa to replace one of my favorite characters, I just think that it makes the roster more ideal and cohesive.

Edit: I agree with you, Booker.

I disagree.

The purpose of Smash Bros. as we know it is including Nintendo icons with unique movesets. Zelda's unique feature was being able to transform into an alternate persona, with a completely different moveset from her own.

While the execution was not all that great, there is room for improvement. Taking away Sheik and adding Impa is taking a step backwards. If we're adding Newcomers, then they should be actually new. I think we're past the point in Smashbros of adding characters that have adopted other movesets.

I don't think Impa is necessary to Smash at this point in time. I just don't.

 

[Morbi]

If it is broken, fix it... yes, I agree... and there's a way to fix it... by separating Zelda and Sheik, buff Zelda's moves and give her a new Down+B... so Zelda doesn't suck as bad as she did in Brawl when it took too damn long for her to complete her transformation... and replace Sheik with Impa because it doesn't make sense for Sheik and Zelda to be two separate individuals in Smash if they are the same person... so replace Sheik with Impa, have Impa retain Sheik's moveset and give her new Down+B and Final Smash moves.

Also, it makes sense for Toon Link to shoot fire arrows... Toon Link did that in The Wind Waker.

I completely and utterly agree. If they do separate the two characters, the replacement is literally the only option that I can fathom. If Phantom isn't her replacing her transformation, Sheik should stay.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

From a Zelda series perspective Impa replacing Sheik makes a lot of sense, but from a Smash perspective Sheik sticking around makes more sense at this point.

Basically just this. I'm going to bed, and I don't like to talk about Impa because I overall think she would be a waste of space in Smash. So I agree with N3ON.

 

[NickerBocker]

My problem, as I already stated, with replacing Sheik with Impa, is that it doesn't provide anything new for Impa as a newcomer.

Again. If the character in question requires a previous character to be cut, then they shouldn't be added at all. In my eyes, Toon Link is an exception because it made sense to update the appearance of a character. They may be named something different, and represent something different, but it fills the same niche in Smash.

All I'm saying is that Sakurai COULD technically do this, but there is no point. It would disguise the game as new when really you're recycling old features.

 

[Arcadenik]

What's wrong with keeping Sheik and changing her model to resemble Impa and renaming her "Impa"? You are still playing with Sheik.

 

[Starcutter]

Diddy isn't even here.

Why the hell are we talking about Impa?

 

[Morbi]

What's wrong with keeping Sheik and changing her model to resemble Impa and renaming her "Impa"? You are still playing with Sheik.

Sheik could always be an alternate costume too. Just in the end, it doesn't even matter to me. Whatever they decide to do is fine with me.

 

[Arcadenik]

Diddy isn't even here.

Why the hell are we talking about Impa?

It's a long weekend... Sakurai needs to give us some insight about the Phantom Knight already... but Sakurai is clearly trolling us with these pictures of Zelda making that same pose she did with the Phantom Knight...

 

[Morbi]

It's a long weekend... Sakurai needs to give us some insight about the Phantom Knight already... but Sakurai is clearly trolling us with these pictures of Zelda making that same pose she did with the Phantom Knight...

It could honestly go either way. There aren't any solid or decisive arguments that allude to Phantom being an assist trophy, and there aren't any feasible arguments that illustrate that Phantom is a part of Zelda's move-set. Personally, I find that there is a lot more on the side of Phantom as a move or new mechanic as many who think it is an assist trophy leave it at that. Sakurai should really chime in.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Hopefully we get something juicy this morning so we can talk about it...

Like an Impa Assist Trophy

Goodnight y'all!

 

[Starcutter]

It's a long weekend... Sakurai needs to give us some insight about the Phantom Knight already... but Sakurai is clearly trolling us with these pictures of Zelda making that same pose she did with the Phantom Knight...

As well as

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Diddy isn't even here.

Why the hell are we talking about Impa?

Because without him we can accomplish some discussion about her without raising everyone's blood pressure due to the way he presents her inclusion. There's potential there, it just has to be handled in the right way.

 

[Morbi]

Hopefully we get something juicy this morning so we can talk about it...

Like an Impa Assist Trophy

Goodnight y'all!

Goodnight, Booker.

 

[Starcutter]

It could honestly go either way. There aren't any solid or decisive arguments that allude to Phantom being an assist trophy, and there aren't any feasible arguments that illustrate that Phantom is a part of Zelda's move-set. Personally, I find that there is a lot more on the side of Phantom as a move or new mechanic as many who think it is an assist trophy leave it at that. Sakurai should really chime in.

Wasn't there that one pic that showed that in brawl that pose Zelda is doing is from after she summons an assist?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Wasn't there that one pic that showed that in brawl that pose Zelda is doing is from after she summons an assist?

The thing was that she does the same pose in other pictures with no sign of the Phantom. So until we know more, it is essentially inconclusive.

I for one think it's an assist. But what evs bros. I need muh sleep so my beard can get it's rest