Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[3Bismyname]

Your jsut proving my point more and more.



There is one legitamate arguemnt I can think of against Ridley. Ther common arguments however..... They have almopst no legitmacy. The "too big" argument is flawed Since Ridely has had different size and can get downscaled. The he has no "character or personality" argument is also flawed as SSB can easily give him personality he already has just liek they have done with other characters in their games. Humanoid or not.


Since people seem to be unable to use the actual legitate argument against Ridley I will state what it is BUT I want to make clear that I am all for Ridley getting in, but I also am not so far blinded to realize that there is at least one reason while Ridley might not be able to get in.

Ridley would be hard to implement. Not because of size or lack of character. It's the way Ridely is portrayed with the way he moves on ground and how he is reliant on flight. Whle generally on the ground Ridley is on all 4s, though there are instances where he is upright though I don't think he ever walked much upright, and just generally how he moves on the ground, which he will need to do in SSB. The other problem is that in the Metroid games his dominat feature is him flying. Just give him multiple jumps and a glide wouldn't feel right for Ridley. Sakurai said himself Ridley would be a difficult character to implement. Most people take this to mean he is talking about size but honestly size would hardly affect it. The problem is the way Ridley generally moves on the ground and how he is so reliant on flight. Making Ridley hard to implement, hard but not impossible. There is also the fact that he isn't humanoid and has a awkward body structure for SSB adding onto the fact that he will be hard to implement into SSB.

Now the above arguemnt is actually legitamte and can show that Ridley might not get on SSB4 BUT Ridley wouldn't be impossible to implement and he has the support and iconicness to all be a highley possible canidate for SSB4.

And again let me state that I am in full support of Ridley getting in and thinking he has quite the good chance of getting in. But I'm not so blinded as I know there are a few reasons as to why he might not get in either.

there u go. finally someone understands a real reason he couldnt make it. that seems more likely the reason Sakurai didnt consider him for Brawl

 

[Silverjay323]

Your jsut proving my point more and more.



There is one legitamate arguemnt I can think of against Ridley. Ther common arguments however..... They have almopst no legitmacy. The "too big" argument is flawed Since Ridely has had different size and can get downscaled. The he has no "character or personality" argument is also flawed as SSB can easily give him personality he already has just liek they have done with other characters in their games. Humanoid or not.


Since people seem to be unable to use the actual legitate argument against Ridley I will state what it is BUT I want to make clear that I am all for Ridley getting in, but I also am not so far blinded to realize that there is at least one reason while Ridley might not be able to get in.

Ridley would be hard to implement. Not because of size or lack of character. It's the way Ridely is portrayed with the way he moves on ground and how he is reliant on flight. Whle generally on the ground Ridley is on all 4s, though there are instances where he is upright though I don't think he ever walked much upright, and just generally how he moves on the ground, which he will need to do in SSB. The other problem is that in the Metroid games his dominat feature is him flying. Just give him multiple jumps and a glide wouldn't feel right for Ridley. Sakurai said himself Ridley would be a difficult character to implement. Most people take this to mean he is talking about size but honestly size would hardly affect it. The problem is the way Ridley generally moves on the ground and how he is so reliant on flight. Making Ridley hard to implement, hard but not impossible. There is also the fact that he isn't humanoid and has a awkward body structure for SSB adding onto the fact that he will be hard to implement into SSB.

Now the above arguemnt is actually legitamte and can show that Ridley might not get on SSB4 BUT Ridley wouldn't be impossible to implement and he has the support and iconicness to all be a highley possible canidate for SSB4.

And again let me state that I am in full support of Ridley getting in and thinking he has quite the good chance of getting in. But I'm not so blinded as I know there are a few reasons as to why he might not get in either.

Did I not quote said conversation involving Sakurai and Nintendo Power earlier?

 

[mimgrim]

Did I not quote said conversation involving Sakurai and Nintendo Power earlier?

You said Sakurai said that because Ridley is to big. Making your point invalid. Did you even read what I typed aside from the part of what Sakurai said? -_-

 

[FalKoopa]

I suppose Ridley could use Bowser's feral attack style (the normal attacks and tilts in particular.)

As for his stance, I'm expecting a mix between Charizard and DK, whatever that may be.

 

[Silverjay323]

You said Sakurai said that because Ridley is to big. Making your point invalid. Did you even read what I typed aside from the part of what Sakurai said? -_-

Course I did. I didn't need to restate that Sakurai said it would be too hard, cause well, he already said it. The "too big" thing was an inference. His design and the way he moved on a downscaled angle has been mentioned before.

 

[MagnesD3]

God this thread has tanked.

 

[mimgrim]

Course I did. I didn't need to restate that Sakurai said it would be too hard, cause well, he already said it. The "too big" thing was an inference. His design and the way he moved on a downscaled angle has been mentioned before.

I don't recall his stance being brought up before. I recall his size and character being brought as arguements against his inclusiong. Nothing else.

 

[3Bismyname]

I don't recall his stance being brought up before. I recall his size and character being brought as arguements against his inclusiong. Nothing else.

oh and his personality. thats another dumb one that was brought up. :D

Edit: Sorry i just skimmed it and missed the character part

 

[BluePikmin11]

Course I did. I didn't need to restate that Sakurai said it would be too hard, cause well, he already said it. The "too big" thing was an inference. His design and the way he moved on a downscaled angle has been mentioned before.

Don't you think the sentence was a small quick joke?

 

[jaytalks]

I think Ridley would be a great addition but I don't think he's going to be in it. I don't think it's due to size. People keep saying Sakurai gives fans what they want and use that (and Megaman) as proof that we will get Ridley. While that's entirely possible, it's definitely not a sure thing. So bashing anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view is really unnecessary. There is not some special pass that makes discussing the pros and cons of Ridely. There are many more pros, but there is still some reason to have doubt, as he still hasnt been in Smashyet. I don't why Sakurai hasnt included Ridley in the past, including why it would be difficult to implement him, but I'm not aware of any changes to his character that makes him a more viable character.

I would loved to be proved wrong and I think he'd make a great Metroid rep. But as it stands now, he's not in my predictions.

 

[TheTuninator]

Arguments against Ridley:
-Too big (debunked by a certain video known as the Melee intro)
-Bowser is already the "feral beast" (if we can have two psychic kids or four swordsmen or three blaster-wielding commandos, why can't we have two feral beasts?)
-???

I think Ridley would be a great addition but I don't think he's going to be in it. I don't think it's due to size. People keep saying Sakurai gives fans what they want and use that (and Megaman) as proof that we will get Ridley. While that's entirely possible, it's definitely not a sure thing. So bashing anyone who doesn't agree with your point of view is really unnecessary. There is not some special pass that makes discussing the pros and cons of Ridely. There are many more pros, but there is still some reason to have doubt, as he still hasnt been in Smashyet. I don't why Sakurai hasnt included Ridley in the past, including why it would be difficult to implement him, but I'm not aware of any changes to his character that makes him a more viable character.

I would loved to be proved wrong and I think he'd make a great Metroid rep. But as it stands now, he's not in my predictions.

I find Ridley and K. Rool to be quite likely, but I do not think that overwhelming popularity is a guarantee that we will see them. Sakurai's not going to give us every popular request.

 

[mimgrim]

Arguments against Ridley:
-Too big (debunked by a certain video known as the Melee intro)
-Bowser is already the "feral beast" (if we can have two psychic kids or four swordsmen or three blaster-wielding commandos, why can't we have two feral beasts?)
-???

You forgot lack of character/personality.

 

[TheTuninator]

You forgot lack of character/personality.

Well, that's Mario knackered then.

 

[jaytalks]

Arguments against Ridley:
-Too big (debunked by a certain video known as the Melee intro)
-Bowser is already the "feral beast" (if we can have two psychic kids or four swordsmen or three blaster-wielding commandos, why can't we have two feral beasts?)
-???



I find Ridley and K. Rool to be quite likely, but I do not think that overwhelming popularity is a guarantee that we will see them. Sakurai's not going to give us every popular request.

Agreed. The reason I don't include him in predictions is that if I did, I would have to shorten my list, which is already seeing fighters fight for a spot (I keep removing and readding Shulk and Isaac). Sakurai has said that the character is difficult to implement, and I have to take him at his word. Difficult characters can shorten the roster. I'm not completely sure if Ridley would be hard as developing Pokemon Trainer (whose basically three characters), but if you designed a smaller roster, I think Ridley should be on it. But the way Ridley moves is his biggest hindrance. RIdley never stays on the ground. In his Super Metroid appearance, I can't recall him ever even touching the ground.

 

[Silverjay323]

I don't recall his stance being brought up before. I recall his size and character being brought as arguements against his inclusiong. Nothing else.

I'd imagine he was referring to how Ridley has a fairly awkward body structure in some parts. At least when compared to any existing character in Smash. At least that's how I interpret it. But having such a bigger team this time around is why many, including myself, think this isn't that big a problem anymore.

​

They managed to just get his design right as a boss character..., but maybe it was design on a downscaled model that proved to be too hard.

​

quote myself and shrooby on pg 193

God this thread has tanked.

I'm all for changing the topic.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

There are many more pros, but there is still some reason to have doubt, as he still hasnt been in Smashyet. I don't why Sakurai hasnt included Ridley in the past, including why it would be difficult to implement him, but I'm not aware of any changes to his character that makes him a more viable character.\

You could make this point about every character that hasn't been in Smash yet. Hell, pre-Brawl it could've been said about some of the characters included in Brawl.

 

[Sebz]

Ridley has no personality? Wow, just because he comes off as a beast doesn't mean he has no personality. Here, a quick excerpt from Wikitroid:

"Despite his bloodthirsty tendencies, Ridley has shown to be an intelligent and competent battle tactician, orchestrating a great many successful battles, as well as proving a serious threat on his own. Interestingly, his traits as a competent leader seem to even be on a genetic level, as his clone, who was raised without any education (making him feral), was seemingly leading various creatures into attacking Adam Malkovich's squad while he handled Samus alone in his adolescent form. However, his quick temper and his arrogant belief that nothing can defeat him often undermines these qualities, leading to a great many defeats for him as well.
...
He has also frequently displayed a very sadistic sense of humor, evidenced by his various comments against Samus upon their first meeting since K2-L. Ridley even goes so far as to taunt her by saying that he may have eaten and incorporated the cells of her mother's corpse into his body and sardonically wonders what part her cells reside in. He then proceeds to bring his foot down on Samus, angrily saying "At least pay your respects!"; referring to her dead mother, showing just how much joy he takes in the suffering of others. This sadism can also be seen in Other M, as Ridley toys with Samus before being interrupted by Anthony. "

 

[TheTuninator]

Despite his bloodthirsty tendencies, Ridley has shown to be an intelligent and competent battle tactician, orchestrating a great many successful battles

successful

They lost me there.

 

[jaytalks]

You could make this point about every character that hasn't been in Smash yet. Hell, pre-Brawl it could've been said about some of the characters included in Brawl.

The difference is that the general feeling on this thread has been that he is almost inevitable. There's been no changes to the character that make him such a shoe-in. The changes have been external: Ridley is the most requested newcomer in Smash. Which is a very good reason to include him, should he not limit the roster of characters.

 

[Sebz]

They lost me there.

His battles against Samus are only a small percentage of his battles! He swears! IT'S NOT A PERFORMANCE ISSUE!!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

They lost me there.

He's only lost to Samus you know.

Then again, losing to a walking tank feels somewhat justified.

 

[IsmaR]

Bowser was only that size without any type of magic in 64. Just as the only time Ridley wasn't huge was in the original Metroid

[collapse=Not one of these was magic, and not a single f*** was given in consideration to making Bowser playable.]Super Mario World

Super Mario 64/DS

Super Mario Sunshine

New Super Mario Bros.

Super Mario Galaxy

Super Mario 3D Land

Yoshi Topsy-Turvy

Mario Party 2

Paper Mario

Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time

Super Mario Strikers

[/collapse]

Now unless you have a real argument, go enjoy the rest of your day instead of poking at a relic argument killed 10x over.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Just resize him, and you'll grant yourself a purple flying monster you guys might actually like when you play as him.

 

[TheTuninator]

His battles against Samus are only a small percentage of his battles! He swears! IT'S NOT A PERFORMANCE ISSUE!!

I'd be more willing to give him a pass if he didn't keep placing such an emphasis on taking her on face-to-face instead of packing up the whole operation and running for a good, long while.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I was just thinking... what if Mii is revealed, as a casual friendly character?

Meaning.. his attacks are really random, so he'd be too unstable for the competitive scene, but on the other hand, his attack range from weak to very strong so that more casual players get a lot more laughs and lucky wins with him?

He'd be really hard to master because of his randomness, but easy to pick up for new players and have a good time with Mii. Would it be a good idea? Considering the skill ceiling will be met once the metagame for every character starts to develop.

I think of Toon Link's arrows from Brawl- to give one example. Or Game & Watch's Side+B.

 

[FalKoopa]

I dislike the idea Miis being playable, tbh.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I was just thinking... what if Mii is revealed, as a casual friendly character?

Meaning.. his attacks are really random, so he'd be too unstable for the competitive scene, but on the other hand, his attack range from weak to very strong so that more casual players get a lot more laughs and lucky wins with him?

He'd be really hard to master because of his randomness, but easy to pick up for new players and have a good time with Mii. Would it be a good idea? Considering the skill ceiling will be met once the metagame for every character starts to develop.

I think of Toon Link's arrows from Brawl- to give one example. Or Game & Watch's Side+B.

I think Miis are suppose to be the customization character here.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I would sooner play as customizable Primids than Miis, to be honest.

Seriously, they have no background. No story. No goals, accomplishments, purpose. They are literally just avatars for humans in real life, not characters. We already have Wii Fit Trainer to represent the casual demographic of Nintendo, and Game & Watch and Villager to represent the "pulling out everything out of hammerspace" niche. You can't give Miis any sort of credibility compared to characters that have saved worlds, enslaved dimensions, and brought championship status upon themselves. Even WFT, an individual, has credibility in the form of "making millions more fit" as that's a consistent canon to her history and purpose. Miis do not have a single notable role to speak of beyond linking the player to the game, something Link already does in name and history.

Customizable Primids at least work within the context of Smash Bros. Adding Miis would be a giant ass-pull to appeal to masses that would rather play as themselves than someone else in a fighting game all about Nintendo characters. There is literally no reason to add Miis besides to detract players from getting familiar with other characters, the complete antithesis of Smash Bros.'s purpose.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Miis are like species of Yoshis

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Mii has about as many accomplishments as R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch. Regardless, that doesn't really matter when picking characters.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd rather have the option to play as my Mii than a ****ing Primid.
And I really don't care whether Miis are in or not.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Reggie Mii vs. Mario, you would not enjoy that?!?!?!!?

 

[Deleted member]

When it comes to Reggie, I'd rather have the real deal.

 

[mimgrim]

Just you wait. One day the Miis shall rule the world. That friendly smiling nature of theirs is just a disguise. Behind that they are pur evil. They are constantly watching you, even when their system(s) are turned off. They are figuring out a way to get out of the virtual world. We created them, pure evil, and they will turn their backs on us and dominate us. They willrape the woman and men of this world. They will treat as nothing more then animals. They are watching us, they are waiting for the oprotune moment to streak, and they are pure evil. The Miis far out number us humans as us humans have created more then one Mii. When they come to our worl, and they will, you had best be prepared to get dominated. Watch out for the Miis.

 

[Deleted member]

Preeeety sure Villager will beat them to it. Him alone is 10X worse than an army of evil Miis.

 

[mimgrim]

Preeeety sure Villager will beat them to it. Him alone is 10X worse than an army of evil Miis.

Villager only has been watching and learning how the Smash Bros fight. That is all. He doesn't have anything against his creators, he has something against the other nintendo characters. The Miis want to enslave all of humanity and will suceede. There are twice as many Miis as there are humans and every Mii born evil. The Miis will find a way ino our worl and enslave and dominate us. Just you wait, it will happen.

 

[zauberdragon]

SSB isn't some sweeping narrative game, it's a fighting game. If personality ever mattered, which it doesn't, Ridley would've made it in ahead of R.O.B., G+W and probably half the Brawl roster. Ridley is a major antagonist from one of the few Nintendo franchises with a coherent, chronological storyline. He has a personality which develops throughout the series as does his relationship with Samus.

 

[Frostwraith]

Ew, more Ridley size bull****...

Oh, and if Bowser has magic to resize, so why wouldn't Ridley have science? See how absurd this sounds?

Sizes don't matter: Bowser, Pikachu, Olimar are proof enough that sizes are not a problem when including characters.

Bleh, this size thing has been done to death so many times, it's tiresome. This said, I'm outta here.

 

[Silverjay323]

[collapse=Not one of these was magic, and not a single f*** was given in consideration to making Bowser playable.]Super Mario World

Super Mario 64/DS

Super Mario Sunshine

New Super Mario Bros.

Super Mario Galaxy

Super Mario 3D Land

Yoshi Topsy-Turvy

Mario Party 2

Paper Mario

Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time

Super Mario Strikers

[/collapse]

Now unless you have a real argument, go enjoy the rest of your day instead of poking at a relic argument killed 10x over.

Even with this, you could say Bowser's size is not constant, which you've obviously shown it isn't, Ridley has still always been big except in the original Metroid and that Melee intro people seem to bring up. Plus he is the main Mario, the face of nintendo, bad guy and how could they not put him in? You still haven't seemed to address how he would work gameplay wise or how resizing a character like Ridley, who is canonically big, differs from Bowser, who has changed size repeatedly. Try tackling that instead of bringing up the same counter argument over and over. I thought we were done with this.

 

[FalKoopa]

If he's big, let him be big. It only adds to his uniqueness.