Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Rebellious Treecko]

Alright you guys, I think I've managed to pick Sakurai's brain and come up with the most realistic roster.

Thoughts?

I love how Captain Rainbow is grouped in with the F-Zero characters. XD

-Replace Paper Bowser with Baby Bowser. I've noticed that you don't have any Yoshi reps anyway.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I love how Captain Rainbow is grouped in with the F-Zero characters. XD

-Replace Paper Bowser with Baby Bowser. I've noticed that you don't have any Yoshi reps anyway.

Needs more Pak E. Derm.

 

[Banjodorf]

I love how Captain Rainbow is grouped in with the F-Zero characters. XD

-Replace Paper Bowser with Baby Bowser. I've noticed that you don't have any Yoshi reps anyway.

Yoshi? What's that? And Captain Rainbow *isn't* an F-Zero character? Is my life a lie?

Damn it, I knew I forgot something...

 

[BluePikmin11]

Alright you guys, I think I've managed to pick Sakurai's brain and come up with the most realistic roster.

Thoughts?

God, not this again. Sakurai isn't Nintendo, and even then, we don't know if he's not in Tropical Freeze considering all the fanservice Retro is pumping into the game. Even then, it's Retro that chose not to have Kremlings in either game if he isn't, not Nintendo. If Nintendo really didn't want Kremlings, they'd have commented on it by now. Even then, you people overreact. I feel like I'm gonna have to lay the smack down soon...

It's missing something..
It needs:

 

[mimgrim]

It's missing something..
It needs:

Jack Black? Thats who the guy looks like in that pic.

 

[BluePikmin11]

 

[yummyorange]

Alright you guys, I think I've managed to pick Sakurai's brain and come up with the most realistic roster.

Thoughts?

No Yoshi!

 

[mimgrim]

Jack Black for SSB4!

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Yoshi? What's that? And Captain Rainbow *isn't* an F-Zero character? Is my life a lie?

Damn it, I knew I forgot something...

It's okay man, the eyes on the helmet and the name are deceiving.
I'll buy you an ice cream.

 

[8-peacock-8]

I actually agree. Nintendo probably doesn't have much intention of the Kremlings returning, since they've replaced them with the Tikis in DKCR and now the arctic creatures in Tropical Freeze. I'd say K. Rool's chances are slim. Ridley is big. Aside from that he has no character, aside from being the space pirate that MURDERED Samus' parents, and the monster she has a personal vendetta against. Them both being in Smash is odd.

I think you missed the part where he claims that they're too big to fit in the game...

 

[Silverjay323]

God, not this again. Sakurai isn't Nintendo, and even then, we don't know if he's not in Tropical Freeze considering all the fanservice Retro is pumping into the game.

So after we put in the seals, walruses, and polar bears, we'll throw in the gator.

Even then, it's Retro that chose not to have Kremlings in either game if he isn't, not Nintendo. If Nintendo really didn't want Kremlings, they'd have commented on it by now. Even then, you people overreact. I feel like I'm gonna have to lay the smack down soon...

Nintendo agreed with Retro's decision, and even if they haven't said anything, they've shown it. The new DKC games seem to be moving forward not back.

The reason the guy lost credibility calimed that Rool and Ridley are to big to be in Smash. Which is an entirely untrue statement. Rool is the size of Bowser for crying out loud and Bowser isn't to big for Smash. Ridley can easily be made to fit the SSB4 roster, just look at his size in some of the Nes or Snes games he was in or at the intro theme to Melee. He could be resized to fit with the character pretty well. You say that Ridley has no character yet at the same time say that he is a murderer and a monster whihc is where his character is at. And since does having character actually matter? Before Uprising was released it could be argued the Pit has no character. And it can still be argued today that G&W has no character, ICs have no character, ROB has no character. Yet Brawl gave them character. Making the having no character argument rather invalid tbh.

Why make Ridley Snes size, when Samus now has her Other M design? It'd be tacky, like putting Skyward Link with Twilight Zelda. Also "monster" as in species, not character,so just saying he's this murderer is hardly anything. The story of Kid Icarus implies Pit has plenty of character if you look into the story of Kid Icarus, being a servant to the gods and rescuing Palutena. R.O.B and Mr. Game & Watch don't need character for obvious reasons.

I think you missed the part where he claims that they're too big to fit in the game...

Ridley is

 

[8-peacock-8]

Ridley is

No....no he's not. I'm not getting into this argument either since it leads to flame wars.

 

[Silverjay323]

No....no he's not. I'm not getting into this argument either since it leads to flame wars.

How so? It's just a character. Downscaling Ridley wouldn't work, and would be awkward due to Samus now being Other M based.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

I don't know where this talk about Ridley not having character is coming from. Ruthlessness, for one, is indeed character. Having the sheer ferocity to slaughter a little girl's parents and everyone she ever knew without a moment of hesitation definitely speaks miles of how villainous Ridley is compared to more empathetic villains like Bowser.

There's also the fact that the combination of being first-in-command of the Space Pirates (Primes 1 and 3), being able to fly a space craft (Zero Mission), and being able to manipulate, slaughter and evade scientists in a weaker physical state (Other M) shows that Ridley has quite a bit of intelligence as well. So to be a giant frickin' space dragon that could beat you at chess is anything but characterless, I would say.

 

[Opossum]

How so? It's just a character. Downscaling Ridley wouldn't work, and would be awkward due to Samus now being Other M based.

It baffles me that people say that downscaling Ridley wouldn't work, but yet upscaling Olimar to 100x his normal size in Brawl was just fine...

 

[MagnesD3]

Bowser is being removed due to being too big.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Wario is too fat big.

 

[Silverjay323]

It baffles me that people say that downscaling Ridley wouldn't work, but yet upscaling Olimar to 100x his normal size in Brawl was just fine...

Not the downscaling in general, but in comparison to Samus. Olimar does not have this dilemma.

I don't know where this talk about Ridley not having character is coming from. Ruthlessness, for one, is indeed character. Having the sheer ferocity to slaughter a little girl's parents and everyone she ever knew without a moment of hesitation definitely speaks miles of how villainous Ridley is compared to more empathetic villains like Bowser.

There's also the fact that the combination of being first-in-command of the Space Pirates (Primes 1 and 3), being able to fly a space craft (Zero Mission), and being able to manipulate, slaughter and evade scientists in a weaker physical state (Other M) shows that Ridley has quite a bit of intelligence as well. So to be a giant frickin' space dragon that could beat you at chess is anything but characterless, I would say.​

Yes, but still too big. And having it out there casually duking it out there with Samus for fun after said villainous acts is not very practical.​

 

[FlareHabanero]

Wario is too fat.

What!?!? You say I look fat and my quadruple chin looks like a waterfall of flab? Shut up! That's just because you have your television set up on widescreen display!

 

[Opossum]

Not the downscaling in general, but in comparison to Samus. Olimar does not have this dilemma.

Yes, but still too big. And having it out there casually duking it out there with Samus for fun after said villainous acts is not very practical.​

Actually, Olimar does. In Pikmin 2, one of the things you collect is the severed head of a ROB. Olimar is as big as ROB's eye socket in that game.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Yes, but still too big. And having it out there casually duking it out there with Samus for fun after said villainous acts is not very practical.

Thats not a very good argument you know....it really doesn't matter what he did. Especially when Ganondorf is in the game.

 

[shrooby]

It baffles me that people say that downscaling Ridley wouldn't work, but yet upscaling Olimar to 100x his normal size in Brawl was just fine...

I'm sure back in pre-Brawl discussion people said that Olimar's size is a HUGE issue (or rather a tiny penny-sized issue). Course, now that we HAVE Olimar nobody really cares anymore since the freakish size adjustment already happened. People are going to say Olimar's different (and he is but only because he had to be enlarged and not shrunk), but really all that means is that it happened and we're used to it now...but we don't want it to happen again! Same will happen with every other character that gets a size adjustment.

 

[jaytalks]

I don't think that Ridley should be in because he is too big, but I can understand others saying that considering Sakurai has said that. We have seen anything from Sakurai to indicate he's changed his mind on Ridley and resizing him or characters like him, so he is far from a sure thing. He's been a popular choice for awhile but still hasnt made it it. I'm not saying he won't be in it, but I can understand someone using that reasoning. If you are trying to make a prediction about the character's likelihood, it's better to go off what Sakurai has said in the past rather than not.

I think they could resize Ridley if they wanted but they haven't yet but what's holding him back is the fact that he is not Metroid's big bad. So haven't felt the need to add him in the character capacity. They are content with keeping as a boss in single player.

 

[Silverjay323]

Actually, Olimar does. In Pikmin 2, one of the things you collect is the severed head of a ROB. Olimar is as big as ROB's eye socket in that game.

There are multiple R.O.Bs however. May have been a giant one idk. Upscaling and Downscaling aren't exactly the same thing.

Thats not a very good argument you know....it really doesn't matter what he did. Especially when Ganondorf is in the game.

Link and Ganon's fight has been going on for generations and will continue to, so that's different. Plus, even though he's the King of Evil, Ganondorf didn't murder any parents....except in Link to the Past, but if that isn't a valid enough argument, then here:

Doesn't look any better compared to a Wii U box, and don't even get me started on the 3ds version. Image also too big.

​

 

[Opossum]

There are multiple R.O.Bs however. May have been a giant one idk. Upscaling and Downscaling aren't exactly the same thing.

While there are multiple ROBs, this one wasn't giant, considering Olimar's canonical size. Did I mention he's the size of a quarter?


And of course they're not the same, they're opposites. However, saying that one can be done and the other cannot is a double standard.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Why are we really discussing the non-existent issue of Ridley's size?

 

[Opossum]

Why are we really discussing the non-existent issue of Ridley's size?

Because some people like to be difficult, apparently...

 

[Banjodorf]

Not the downscaling in general, but in comparison to Samus. Olimar does not have this dilemma.

Yes, but still too big. And having it out there casually duking it out there with Samus for fun after said villainous acts is not very practical.​

Yes, just like downscaling Bowser to Mario is a big deal. Look at the size in Galaxy 1+2. Come on now, these are old arguments that hold little to no water over others you can choose. And it still doesn't help the fact that fans are overanalyzing the **** out of the fate of the Kremlings in particular.

When Miyamoto discussed DKCR with Retro, he left all developmental decisions up to them, save for the inclusion of Diddy and Cranky. If he were to ask them not to include the Kremlings, it would have been stated in some way at some point. I'm going to go into this in-depth at one point in a full post because I'm tired of people making posts like that. In fact, it seems more likely that Retro just continually decides to not use Kremlings. They've been known to deviate from the main villains of franchises before.

For example, Ridley did not appear in Prime 2, and Mother Brain/Ridley were not the final bosses of Prime 1 or, iirc Prime 3. Kraid didn't appear at all. I see the same principle with Donkey Kong. Retro wanted to make themselves different, and make their own mark. I expect *some* variety of Kremling mention to some degree in TF. If there isn't one, there's going to be hell raised on Miiverse, and someone is going to have to finally take notice of it.

Even then, I reiterate again that Sakurai is not Nintendo. Sakurai has a very obvious amount of care for the DKC franchise, and as Smash is about Nintendo history, not necessarily Nintendo present, and Sakurai regarded K. Rool as the main villain of the DK franchise in Brawl, I don't expect this to change, especially since he is also most recurring. Once again, I'm going to try and put all this silliness to bed soon.

 

[mimgrim]

Why make Ridley Snes size, when Samus now has her Other M design? It'd be tacky, like putting Skyward Link with Twilight Zelda. Also "monster" as in species, not character,so just saying he's this murderer is hardly anything. The story of Kid Icarus implies Pit has plenty of character if you look into the story of Kid Icarus, being a servant to the gods and rescuing Palutena. R.O.B and Mr. Game & Watch don't need character for obvious reasons.

Did I say to give Ridley is Snes design? No I did not, and size =/= design. You could easily shrink a new design to a proper size for SSB, the argument of him being to big is just aa desperate attempt to try and find a excuse for him t not be in there. Characters change size all the time, look at how many different sizes Bowser with some being where he is even bigger then Ridley yet he ain't to big for Smash. Pit is a servant to Palutena not the gods, just Palutena, and just because he is a servant and rescues a damsel in distress doesn't mean he has character, he shows no character in the older retro games. G&W and ROB HAD no character before they were in SSB, but SSB actually GAVE them character along with Pit and Ice climbers. Also just because Ridley isn't human makes him a monster? I think the correct term would be Extra Terrestial also known as an Alien. If he were a monster as in spiecies then he wouldn't be as great as he is and a heck of allot dumber. Ridley is the leader of the Space Pirates and to be able to stay in comman of the Space Pirates for so long he's gotta be pretty damned inteligint.

 

[Silverjay323]

Yes, just like downscaling Bowser to Mario is a big deal. Look at the size in Galaxy 1+2. Come on now, these are old arguments that hold little to no water over others you can choose.

Bowser was upscaled for galaxy, not downscaled for brawl.

If he were to ask them not to include the Kremlings, it would have been stated in some way at some point. I'm going to go into this in-depth at one point in a full post because I'm tired of people making posts like that.

Not saying he did ask, but their exclusion must've been agreed upon in the end.

Even then, I reiterate again that Sakurai is not Nintendo. Sakurai has a very obvious amount of care for the DKC franchise, and as Smash is about Nintendo history, not necessarily Nintendo present, and Sakurai regarded K. Rool as the main villain of the DK franchise in Brawl, I don't expect this to change, especially since he is also most recurring. Once again, I'm going to try and put all this silliness to bed soon.

This does not cement him a spot in the roster, was my point. Sakurai most likely cares for all franchises in Smash. DK isn't that special, and while K.Rool was probably considered the main villain at the time, there were no new main series Donkey Kong games at the time, so who else would he use? There's most likely to be two more reps for DK in smash, Dixie, and possibly the other playable kong in DKCTP, but just my opinion. again.

Did I say to give Ridley is Snes design?

I didn't either. I said size. I referenced Samus' design.

Pit is a servant to Palutena not the gods, just Palutena, and just because he is a servant and rescues a damsel in distress doesn't mean he has character

See Mario

Also just because Ridley isn't human makes him a monster? I think the correct term would be Extra Terrestial also known as an Alien. If he were a monster as in spiecies then he wouldn't be as great as he is and a heck of allot dumber. Ridley is the leader of the Space Pirates and to be able to stay in comman of the Space Pirates for so long he's gotta be pretty damned inteligint.

Pardon me.

 

[josh bones]

Olimar is cut for being too big

 

[Banjodorf]

Anybody else want to handle this one, or is this person the new Noah? I've got important work to do. Yes, I'm sure Sakurai is going to completely ignore all fan suggestion, and simply update the DK franchise because Smash is simply a game of relevancy. That's why Mega Man is in the game, in his original design. K. Rool is among the most popular characters, and is arguably the most popular "newcomer" in both Japan and the US (although Ridley might give him competition) and whether Nintendo notices that or not, Sakurai will and since K. Rool is 1st Party, he doesn't have to ask for rights in order to add him.

You misunderstand the fact that Miyamoto probably just doesn't think here nor there about the Kremlings. It doesn't speak to his opinion on them in any way other than he doesn't really care. He clearly doesn't hate them.

Also, if Nintendo was removing them, and were "removing all traces" of their existence like paranoid fans speculate, they wouldn't lisence this product.

Laugh or don't laugh, but that series was popular in Japan, as is K. Rool. Sakurai even used part of it for reference in designing aspects of DK. The easiest way to remove characters from existence is to never lisence or even allow the creation of products with them again. And you know what? Why didn't they do that when fans thought they originally did in 2003? Why allow him in the Paon trilogy and Super Sluggers, anyway?

I feel like there's no reasoning with this person though.

 

[TheTuninator]

Why are we really discussing the non-existent issue of Ridley's size?

Apparently it's a big issue.

 

[mimgrim]

I didn't either. I said size. I referenced Samus' design.
See Mario
Pardon me.

You said making him Snes size would counter against Samus Desing, which it wouldn't because size =/= design.

You wanna know something about Mario? Back then he could have also been argued to not have any character.

You are pardoned.

 

[Banjodorf]

You wanna know something about Mario? Back then he could have also been argued to not have any character.

Y'know, I'd still honestly argue he's got no character. Even in the Paper Mario games, his character is just...non-existant. It's a good thing those games pull on all the other characters!

Seriously, I'm glad Weegee has one, to balance that out!

 

[Silverjay323]

Anybody else want to handle this one, or is this person the new Noah? I've got important work to do. Yes, I'm sure Sakurai is going to completely ignore all fan suggestion, and simply update the DK franchise because Smash is simply a game of relevancy. That's why Mega Man is in the game, in his original design. K. Rool is among the most popular characters, and is arguably the most popular "newcomer" in both Japan and the US (although Ridley might give him competition) and whether Nintendo notices that or not, Sakurai will and since K. Rool is 1st Party, he doesn't have to ask for rights in order to add him.

You misunderstand the fact that Miyamoto probably just doesn't think here nor there about the Kremlings. It doesn't speak to his opinion on them in any way other than he doesn't really care. He clearly doesn't hate them.

Also, if Nintendo was removing them, and were "removing all traces" of their existence like paranoid fans speculate, they wouldn't lisence this product.

Laugh or don't laugh, but that series was popular in Japan, as is K. Rool. Sakurai even used part of it for reference in designing aspects of DK. The easiest way to remove characters from existence is to never lisence or even allow the creation of products with them again. And you know what? Why didn't they do that when fans thought they originally did in 2003? Why allow him in the Paon trilogy and Super Sluggers, anyway?

I feel like there's no reasoning with this person though.

Who's Noah? I just have a different opinion There are probably ALOT of fan suggestions though. And even if they may be the most popular, doesn't mean they're getting in. Didn't say the Kremlings would be removed either, or that I didn't like DK, so no real reason to laugh, and if Miyamo doesn't care, (I'm assuming that's what you meant by there) why would Sakurai? It's not that he's never going to appear again, I just don't think he'll be playable. No reasoning? What exactly have I done to prove to be a hopeless case aside from uphold my argument as you do yours? It is a discussion after all. Everyone doesn't agree with everything, even if it is the popular opinion. Not like I'm being aggressive.

You said making him Snes size would counter against Samus Desing, which it wouldn't because size =/= design.

It kinda does. Like having Demise Ganon with Zelda 2 Link. Maybe just in my
eyes

You wanna know something about Mario? Back then he could have also been argued to not have any character.

That is true. But no character protagonists differ from antagonists. Even if Ridley has some form of character, it's not much compared to Bowser/Ganondorf.

 

[Banjodorf]

Who's Noah? I just have a different opinion There are probably ALOT of fan suggestions though. And even if they may be the most popular, doesn't mean they're getting in. Didn't say the Kremlings would be removed either, or that I didn't like DK, so no real reason to laugh, and if Miyamo doesn't care, (I'm assuming that's what you meant by there) why would Sakurai? It's not that he's never going to appear again, I just don't think he'll be playable. No reasoning? What exactly have I done to prove to be a hopeless case aside from uphold my argument as you do yours? It is a discussion after all. Everyone doesn't agree with everything, even if it is the popular opinion.

Spoiler

Look, I mean no offense, really, but these are arguments that are pushed by new users time and time again, and it gets a little tiring to see other new people come in again and again, saying the same things. In additon, even people that think very much like myself that he'll be playable have doubts about pretty much every character, or Sakurai including him for reasons you've named. I just understand them differently.

Let's just say it doesn't do just to hear the same "Eh, he's been forgotten" over and over again when I already consider that all the time. Understand that. However, once again, Sakurai has proven to be a more fan-oriented developer than Nintendo EAD and the rest of Nintendo in general. He's a person who, unlike much of Nintendo, makes noticable effort to understand what fans want. Looking at the roster for Brawl, even if those characters were chosen for one reason or another, the majority of them (Ike, Olimar, Diddy, Wolf) represented the most popular choices worldwide.

And why wouldn't you go with the most popular choices? He's already shown his wildcards (Wii Fit Trainer he said was chosen specifically for that purpose) And if you think K. Rool isn't more popular than most other suggestions across the net, I think you'd be very surprised. Look, As for why Sakurai matters, he did all the trophies in Melee. He noticed K. Rool's fanbase in Melee, and he's not going to *stop* noticing that because things are more widespread. Also, K. Rool laid on the DKC fanservice pretty hard with Diddy's moveset in Brawl, and made numerous references to DK64, a game all but forgotten by everyone but Sakurai and Camelot at this point.

 

[Silverjay323]

Spoiler

Look, I mean no offense, really, but these are arguments that are pushed by new users time and time again, and it gets a little tiring to see other new people come in again and again, saying the same things. In additon, even people that think very much like myself that he'll be playable have doubts about pretty much every character, or Sakurai including him for reasons you've named. I just understand them differently.

Let's just say it doesn't do just to hear the same "Eh, he's been forgotten" over and over again when I already consider that all the time. Understand that. However, once again, Sakurai has proven to be a more fan-oriented developer than Nintendo EAD and the rest of Nintendo in general. He's a person who, unlike much of Nintendo, makes noticable effort to understand what fans want. Looking at the roster for Brawl, even if those characters were chosen for one reason or another, the majority of them (Ike, Olimar, Diddy, Wolf) represented the most popular choices worldwide.And why wouldn't you go with the most popular choices? He's already shown his wildcards (Wii Fit Trainer he said was chosen specifically for that purpose) And if you think K. Rool isn't more popular than most other suggestions across the net, I think you'd be very surprised. Look, As for why Sakurai matters, he did all the trophies in Melee. He noticed K. Rool's fanbase in Melee, and he's not going to *stop* noticing that because things are more widespread. Also, K. Rool laid on the DKC fanservice pretty hard with Diddy's moveset in Brawl, and made numerous references to DK64, a game all but forgotten by everyone but Sakurai and Camelot at this point.

I can see what you mean and I honestly feel the same way about Mother. It's not too far fetched, but I still have my doubts. I just saw the two in practically every roster and I really couldn't see it myself.

....but srsly tho who is Noah?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

....but srsly tho who is Noah?

You don't want to know.

Let's not bring Noah up. Okay guys?

 

[Deleted member]

Why are we really discussing the non-existent issue of Ridley's size?

Because people don't realize that Sakurai never said anything about size.