Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[BluePikmin11]

You should chop down Luigi, Lucas, and Lucario if you really think Falco is a clone and should be cut.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Here is my super lean realistic list if sakurai runs out of time.

If time is was concern, I don't think he would add Diddy/Dixie (on part of the complications already experienced with Ice Climbers) and a second form to Bowser Jr. Beyond that, however, it's a modest roster that definitely seems feasible enough.

How is it an exception?

...Because it doesn't follow the pattern Mario and Zelda did in Melee and Kirby did in Brawl? I feel like this question is supposed to be less literal than I'm interpreting it.

 

[3Bismyname]

i personally hope Snake and Sonic get dropped for Megaman and Pac-Man. to make their appearances in their individual Smash games more meaningful. plus i hate Sonic with a passion

 

[MagnesD3]

You should chop down Luigi, Lucas, and Lucario if you really think Falco is a clone and should be cut.

Those are semi clones (except lucario who shouldnt be listed) and falco is one of the few true clones left (falco, toon link, (ganon but hopefully they fix this atrocity this time since there is no excuse but laziness.))

i personally hope Snake and Sonic get dropped for Megaman and Pac-Man. to make their appearances in their individual Smash games more meaningful. plus i hate Sonic with a passion

Sonic is awesome so no, never, nuh uh.

 

[mimgrim]

When did brand loyalty become a factor for 3rd parties though? It didnt stop him from getting in before, and it shouldnt stop him this time. Sonic's 3 game deal may have no impact at all on this game, people are just assuming since that and "the rivalry" are sure things for sonic's inclusion. No one can say with any definite fact that sonic has better chances than snake, anytime this is brought up people automatically make that assumption when there is no basis for it other than people thinking snake didnt fit or his ties arent strong enough, when if sakurai wants him in, hes gonna be in. Dont you guys think sakurai wouldnt just ditch one and keep the other? Id say if anything theres a bigger chance of them both not returning, it would at least respect both series and their characters if they were treated in the same respect as guests, while they bring in two new characters.

The only reason he got in though was as a favor of the person who created him. I never said Sonic was a shoe-in either only that he had a much better chance of staying than Snake for various reasons., I also never said Sonic was a sure thing either. However when comparing Sonic and Snake one he a considerably higher chance of getting in over the other. For reasons I listed earlier.

 

[Banjodorf]

Ridley? K.Rool? Don't make me laugh! They'd be so huge in size compared to all other fighters!
Nabooru could join because of her potential moves...
Star Fox: I still don't think Falco will make it to SSB4 because of what Sakurai said; he wants less clones. Falco is one best clone I can find that might get cut.
ROB 64 is R.O.B.'s successor.

I'll admit, it's a very...interesting roster. I've literally never seen Nabooru+Iron Knuckle combination suggested. However, to be blunt, it's more random and less interesting than WFT already, and I don't expect any other unexpected characters, and if we do get them, it won't be that one.

Same goes for ROB 64. Uh...what? Admittedly, I thought we got him back when ROB was confirmed, but seriously, no. Especially not if you replace Falco with him and add Krystal. I don't get what people see in her. I'd take Nabooru over her, but that's my opinion and honestly that doesn't matter.

But then there's the bold bit. The mere suggestion that K. Rool, who's been shown to be no bigger than Bowser in Super Sluggers, and barely bigger than DK in KoS and I believe Jungle Climber (Except for the final boss fight) is laughable. Ridley, he can be resized, and it's an age-old argument that doesn't hold any water if you're intelligent. Also the fact that over the course of Brawl's storymode he changed size three times.

The nerve of some people.

Also, come on people, he's not going to add Tom Nook (much as I'd like it) because he would likely just share most of the Villager's moves, and it doesn't do to take away from Villager's gimmickyness. It makes as much sense as adding/replacing PT with another one.

I do appreciate that both Lucario and Ike are there, in addition to Mewtwo though. For real.

 

[MagnesD3]

If time is was concern, I don't think he would add Diddy/Dixie (on part of the complications already experienced with Ice Climbers) and a second form to Bowser Jr. Beyond that, however, it's a modest roster that definitely seems feasible enough.

...Because it doesn't follow the pattern Mario and Zelda did in Melee and Kirby did in Brawl? I feel like this question is supposed to be less literal than I'm interpreting it.

your probably right but im really just hoping sakurai works his ass off this time.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Ok Villager was planned to be in Brawl, probably at the time Animal Crossing had reached a peak of Popularity, but he couldn't be in the game because Sakurai he couldn't fight in his games. Now today, Animal Crossing is extremely popular now, it hasn't got a character in Smash till now, since probably it's time to have more unique characters in Smash. Now that it's extremely popular, I think Animal Crossing deserves two reps for waiting this long, the most obvious choices are Villager and Tom Nook.

Those are semi clones and falco is one of the few true clones left (falco, toon link, (ganon but hopefully they fix this atrocity this time since there is no excuse but laziness.))



Sonic is awesome so no, never, nuh uh.

Ok make Falco more different than Fox, and it won't be a problem.

 

[MagnesD3]

Ok make Falco more different than Fox, and it won't be a problem.

But thats the thing if sakurai hasnt done that yet with ganondorf after two games who is way more important than falco what are the odds sakurai will fix falco?

 

[mimgrim]

Those are semi clones and falco is one of the few true clones left (falco, toon link, (ganon but hopefully they fix this atrocity this time since there is no excuse but laziness.))

Ugh.... Falco is no longer a true clone anymore -_- He barely meets the requirements of a Semi-Clon in Brawl, if your gonna go as far as call Falco a true clone then call Lucas on as well. Falco's attacks in Brawl work and work differently then they did in Melee. His Specials only 2 can be argued as clone attacks and that is Side and Up Specials as is Nautral and Down specials have different factors to them making them non-clonish. So like really even calling Falco a semi-clone is stretching it.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

The only reason he got in though was as a favor of the person who created him. I never said Sonic was a shoe-in either only that he had a much better chance of staying than Snake for various reasons., I also never said Sonic was a sure thing either. However when comparing Sonic and Snake one he a considerably higher chance of getting in over the other. For reasons I listed earlier.

Those are your reasons though, if they are based on your personal beliefs how does it make his chances better when there is absolutely no way of know if thats what the smash bros team thinks or will do. Theres no reason to say his chances are better, because there is no actual proof to back it up other than random assumption based on your beliefs.

I dont mean to bite your head off, but i feel like this is something that is ongoing with many fans in the fanbase, snake gets thrown to the wayside, while sonic gets a bigger chance based on some other hypothetical factors. Just because he was in as a favor doesnt mean his inclusion has no merit or that it shouldnt happen anymore after that. Sonic got in at the last second, but it also doesnt mean his inclusion wasnt justified either.

 

[Banjodorf]

You should chop down Luigi,

That will literally never happen. He's like, the Ken to Mario's Ryu and everyone knows it.

Don't get rid of any of them. Especially not Falco though.

 

[BluePikmin11]

That will literally never happen. He's like, the Ken to Mario's Ryu and everyone knows it.

Don't get rid of any of them. Especially not Falco though.

I am trying to complement him about the clone issue

 

[jaytalks]

Am I the only person who thunks the 3DS limitations comment makes pair characters more likely? As in they are making them and running into problems. I'm more confident they won't cut characters they are already testing and having issues with and instead just find a way around the 3DS limitations in some way. I don't know much about awakening but if there is pair potential i feel like it might happen, just like diddy/dixie i feel is likely. reason being it gets more reps in a limited number of spaces and from what we know of brawl cuts (diddy/dixie, toon zelda) and stuff like pokemon trainer and zero suit samus sakurai is a fan of getting many characters under one selection spot.

and again the fact he's run into problems with characters LIKE ice climbers should really confirm he's making characters LIKE ice climbers.

That actually makes sense. Although its not necessarily FE or Diddy and Dixie, the fact there are problems means that they are working on characters of those type. I think we are using the limitations of 3DS to not come up with the type of innovative characters Sakurai might have selected.

How is it an exception?

It's the exception because if you look at the franchises added post Melee and Brawl, there is usually only one character added per franchise:
(Not including FE)
Ice Climbers: Ice Climbers
Game and Watch series: Mr. Game and Watch
Wario series: Wario
Kid Icarus: Pit
ROB peripheral: ROB
Pikmin: Olimar
Snake and Sonic are third party.

And in the first game, every franchise got one except Mario and Pokemon.

When did brand loyalty become a factor for 3rd parties though? It didnt stop him from getting in before, and it shouldnt stop him this time. Sonic's 3 game deal may have no impact at all on this game, people are just assuming since that and "the rivalry" are sure things for sonic's inclusion. No one can say with any definite fact that sonic has better chances than snake, anytime this is brought up people automatically make that assumption when there is no basis for it other than people thinking snake didnt fit or his ties arent strong enough, when if sakurai wants him in, hes gonna be in. Dont you guys think sakurai wouldnt just ditch one and keep the other? Id say if anything theres a bigger chance of them both not returning, it would at least respect both series and their characters if they were treated in the same respect as guests, while they bring in two new characters.

I think it has to do more with the relationship with the companies. Sega and Nintendo seem to be on great terms, but Konami has had some harsh comments for the Wii U. None of this may affect Sakurai's decisions, but there is more against Snake than Sonic.

Admittedly, there is still more appeal due to Sega's rivalry with Nintendo in seeing Sonic in Smash 4. In sheer business terms, that can sell more copies of the game. I can see Sakurai ditching one based on the idea he want to emphasize less on third parties. I can also see him ditching both based on those statements. But neither is more likely than the other.

 

[MagnesD3]

Ugh.... Falco is no longer a true clone anymore -_- He barely meets the requirements of a Semi-Clon in Brawl, if your gonna go as far as call Falco a true clone then call Lucas on as well. Falco's attacks in Brawl work and work differently then they did in Melee. His Specials only 2 can be argued as clone attacks and that is Side and Up Specials as is Nautral and Down specials have different factors to them making them non-clonish. So like really even calling Falco a semi-clone is stretching it.

falco has several normals that have similar animations although different hitboxes, his specials are barely different from foxes only in certain properties while almost all of lucas's normals are unique and only 3 of his specials are cloney. (even though falco and lucas's b down I can accept.)

 

[BluePikmin11]

I was talking how Fire Emblem was an exception to add two characters in Melee.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Ridley? K.Rool? Don't make me laugh! They'd be so huge in size compared to all other fighters!

And you lose all credibility here. Good job. Now most people wont be able to take you seriously.

 

[mimgrim]

falco has several normals that have similar animations although different hitboxes, his specials are barely different from foxes only in certain properties while almost all of lucas's normals are unique and only 3 of his specials are cloney. (even though falco and lucas's b down I can accept.)

I don't even see the whole simmalir animation thing aside for a few moves. For the most part Falco uses his arms instead of his legs in Brawl whereas Fox use almost nothing but legs. And only 3 of Falco moves are really cloney and even then 1 of them works differently from Fox's Special that it can honestly not be considered cloney. So again, if your gonna call Falco a true clone might as well call Lucas one to.

 

[MagnesD3]

Well anyway here are the two choices together

and

 

[BluePikmin11]

Now it's an ol regular roster I see everyday to even discuss..

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

I can also see him ditching both based on those statements. But neither is more likely than the other.

Thats all im trying to say, even if people tried to connect possibility to company relations theres still no way to know if that will impact anything, or if its just assumption based on what people want to believe. Neither has a chance over the other right now.

 

[Banjodorf]

Now it's an ol regular roster I see everyday to even discuss..

I could discuss the fact that I dislike Krystal, but I guess that's pretty irrelevant.

I could always make a new roster...

 

[MagnesD3]

I don't even see the whole simmalir animation thing aside for a few moves. For the most part Falco uses his arms instead of his legs in Brawl whereas Fox use almost nothing but legs. And only 3 of Falco moves are really cloney and even then 1 of them works differently from Fox's Special that it can honestly not be considered cloney. So again, if your gonna call Falco a true clone might as well call Lucas one to.

the thing is even though the animations are slightly different all of their moves are there for the almost exact same purposes, they should work more on falco just look at how different wolf is, that is is what effort looks like, when you look at lucas I see the same thing but when it comes to falco he is just lazily design and just stole some of fox's old properties such as the slow blaster when fox should just be able to do both, why dont they give falco a double blaster or something, idk get creative, they gave wolf a lunge attack and interesting tilts, I just want sakurai to put some effort into him or cut him.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yeah let's see a roster in different shapes, try doing it in an octagon formation.

 

[MagnesD3]

Now it's an ol regular roster I see everyday to even discuss..

Its a prediction thread, we arent supposed to throw in the most unlikely characters like goku or something.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Ok Villager was planned to be in Brawl, probably at the time Animal Crossing had reached a peak of Popularity, but he couldn't be in the game because Sakurai he couldn't fight in his games. Now today, Animal Crossing is extremely popular now, it hasn't got a character in Smash till now, since probably it's time to have more unique characters in Smash. Now that it's extremely popular, I think Animal Crossing deserves two reps for waiting this long, the most obvious choices are Villager and Tom Nook.

I'd like to see a citation for that. All I recall is Sakurai saying that characters like Nintendog and Villager can't happen on part of neither of them having fighter potential, which completely contradicts the statement that he was planned to be in Brawl in the first place.

Regardless of whether or not they deserve a spot, you can't add characters in a vacuum. Adding one affects the entire roster, the room left in it, the balance, the diversity--everything is affected just from one character being added. If Tom Nook suddenly gets in alongside the Villager, that's going to throw the balance out, because now a brand new series is getting two new reps while a more veteran series like Donkey Kong or Metroid or even a new series entirely will lose the chance to add a much deserved character.

I'm not saying Tom Nook is impossible for Smash Bros., but I don't see him being add to the initial roster this time. DLC at best, a future Smash Bros. at worst.

 

[MagnesD3]

I'd like to see a citation for that. All I recall is Sakurai saying that characters like Nintendog and Villager can't happen on part of neither of them having fighter potential, which completely contradicts the statement that he was planned to be in Brawl in the first place.

Regardless of whether or not they deserve a spot, you can't add characters in a vacuum. Adding one affects the entire roster, the room left in it, the balance, the diversity--everything is affected just from one character being added. If Tom Nook suddenly gets in alongside the Villager, that's going to throw the balance out, because now a brand new series is getting two new reps while a more veteran series like Donkey Kong or Metroid or even a new series entirely will lose the chance to add a much deserved character.

I'm not saying Tom Nook is impossible for Smash Bros., but I don't see him being add to the initial roster this time. DLC at best, a future Smash Bros. at worst.

Thats why it was bitter sweet seeing villager in instead of tom, since it made tom's chances of getting in this time very slim.

 

[BluePikmin11]

http://smashboards.com/threads/saku...lks-character-decisions.337935/#post-15628492
Also, how does Tom Nook balance off the roster? I really think Sakurai is going for characters who can't fight, but have something unique that could make them a fighter.

 

[mimgrim]

the thing is even though the animations are slightly different all of their moves are there for the almost exact same purposes, they should work more on falco just look at how different wolf is, that is is what effort looks like, when you look at lucas I see the same thing but when it comes to falco he is just lazily design and just stole some of fox's old properties such as the slow blaster when fox should just be able to do both, why dont they give falco a double blaster or something, idk get creative, they gave wolf a lunge attack and interesting tilts, I just want sakurai to put some effort into him or cut him.

Except they Aren't there for the same purpose. If the moves were there for the same purpose then Falco would play more like Fox, whihc he doesn't. Fox is all about comboing and combos and even more combos. Falco is more about CG and air combat. So yes their moves work differently in that respect also. The fact that they have totally different play styles should make it obvious that their moves have different purposes.

 

[papagenos]

When did brand loyalty become a factor for 3rd parties though? It didnt stop him from getting in before, and it shouldnt stop him this time. Sonic's 3 game deal may have no impact at all on this game, people are just assuming since that and "the rivalry" are sure things for sonic's inclusion. No one can say with any definite fact that sonic has better chances than snake, anytime this is brought up people automatically make that assumption when there is no basis for it other than people thinking snake didnt fit or his ties arent strong enough, when if sakurai wants him in, hes gonna be in. Dont you guys think sakurai wouldnt just ditch one and keep the other? Id say if anything theres a bigger chance of them both not returning, it would at least respect both series and their characters if they were treated in the same respect as guests, while they bring in two new characters.

This. this. so much this. Doesn't make sense to keep sonic and NOT snake, it's disrespectful and snake and sonic are just as "easy" for sakurai to get back in the game if he so chooses. If he doesn't keep both then I feel like he will cut both but I'm honestly leaning on them both being kept AND I believe the pacman/mii/littlemac leak and really think we'll be seeing 4 third party reps...it's not that absurd to think we will.

 

[MagnesD3]

Except they Aren't there for the same purpose. If the moves were there for the same purpose then Falco would play more like Fox, whihc he doesn't. Fox is all about comboing and combos and even more combos. Falco is more about CG and air combat. So yes their moves work differently in that respect also. The fact that they have totally different play styles should make it obvious that their moves have different purposes.

well maybe he is a semi clone, i dont play him competitively/main him or anything so maybe underneath the similar animations is a different character, that still doesnt mean they shouldnt sit there in ssb4 and not change his specials (and lucas's specials). Id also like them to differentiate more on his normals between him and fox further.

 

[mimgrim]

well maybe he is a semi clone, i dont play him competitively/main him or anything so maybe underneath the similar animations is a different character, that still doesnt mean they shouldnt sit there in ssb4 and not change his specials (and lucas's specials). Id also like them to differentiate more on his normals between him and fox further.

I'd rather see more work put into new characters and Ganondorf then worrying abou "Semi-Clones" when they are already different enough as is and there are other things more important to worry about. :L

 

[jaytalks]

This. this. so much this. Doesn't make sense to keep sonic and NOT snake, it's disrespectful and snake and sonic are just as "easy" for sakurai to get back in the game if he so chooses. If he doesn't keep both then I feel like he will cut both but I'm honestly leaning on them both being kept AND I believe the pacman/mii/littlemac leak and really think we'll be seeing 4 third party reps...it's not that absurd to think we will.

I don't think it's disrespectful. The characters are there at the pleasure of Nintendo. It was not a guarantee about them being the next one. Putting both characters together like that doesn't make sense. They are not a package deal. They are just likely to come back as one of is cut or even both are to get cut.

 

[MagnesD3]

I'd rather see more work put into new characters and Ganondorf then worrying abou "Semi-Clones" when they are already different enough as is and there are other things more important to worry about. :L

I just want them to finish their game for once, it always seems like someone gets left behind.

 

[Silverjay323]

And you lose all credibility here. Good job. Now most people wont be able to take you seriously.

I actually agree. Nintendo probably doesn't have much intention of the Kremlings returning, since they've replaced them with the Tikis in DKCR and now the arctic creatures in Tropical Freeze. I'd say K. Rool's chances are slim. Ridley is big. Aside from that he has no character, aside from being the space pirate that MURDERED Samus' parents, and the monster she has a personal vendetta against. Them both being in Smash is odd.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Ridley get's quite a compliment for being the most requested Nintendo character though.

 

[MagnesD3]

I actually agree. Nintendo probably doesn't have much intention of the Kremlings returning, since they've replaced them with the Tikis in DKCR and now the arctic creatures in Tropical Freeze. I'd say K. Rool's chances are slim. Ridley is big. Aside from that he has no character, aside from being the space pirate that MURDERED Samus' parents, and the monster she has a personal vendetta against. Them both being in Smash is odd.

Tropical freeze really does have me worried about k. rool, I think his chances are 60/40 and dixies (combined with diddy as his original vision) is 70/30.

 

[Banjodorf]

Alright you guys, I think I've managed to pick Sakurai's brain and come up with the most realistic roster.

Thoughts?

I actually agree. Nintendo probably doesn't have much intention of the Kremlings returning, since they've replaced them with the Tikis in DKCR and now the arctic creatures in Tropical Freeze. I'd say K. Rool's chances are slim. Ridley is big. Aside from that he has no character, aside from being the space pirate that MURDERED Samus' parents, and the monster she has a personal vendetta against. Them both being in Smash is odd.

God, not this again. Sakurai isn't Nintendo, and even then, we don't know if he's not in Tropical Freeze considering all the fanservice Retro is pumping into the game. Even then, it's Retro that chose not to have Kremlings in either game if he isn't, not Nintendo. If Nintendo really didn't want Kremlings, they'd have commented on it by now. Even then, you people overreact. I feel like I'm gonna have to lay the smack down soon...

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

http://smashboards.com/threads/saku...lks-character-decisions.337935/#post-15628492
Also, how does Tom Nook balance off the roster? I really think Sakurai is going for characters who can't fight, but have something unique that could make them a fighter.

First off, I gotta say that ironically enough, my counter-argument is also in that thread in the form of the first post.

What I'm about to say is more a commentary on the community. It seems that in general, people take the phrase "planned for" way out of proportion. People don't seem to understand that plans in a video game project are a very fluid concept. Plans are constantly in flux.

People often like to say things like "Lucas was 'supposed to' replace Ness in melee," as an argument against Ness's return. The fact of the matter is that nothing is ever set in stone...

Anywho, interesting article. =P

10 likes to boot certainly makes it sound like people don't disagree, either.

As for Sakurai going for characters who can't fight, no. He selects characters based on their merit and what they can bring to the roster, not based on how nobody expects them. Wii Fit Trainer was the one that did both, I suppose, but let's not get carried away thinking that shocking choices like the Villager and Wii Fit Trainer suddenly merits any and every Nintendo IP. Aside from the common sense of that, there's nothing from Sakurai stating he's looking for anyone good or bad at fighting in particular.

Alright you guys, I think I've managed to pick Sakurai's brain and come up with the most realistic roster.

Thoughts?

Not sure if kidding, but it's so absurd either way that I can't help but love it.

 

[mimgrim]

I actually agree. Nintendo probably doesn't have much intention of the Kremlings returning, since they've replaced them with the Tikis in DKCR and now the arctic creatures in Tropical Freeze. I'd say K. Rool's chances are slim. Ridley is big. Aside from that he has no character, aside from being the space pirate that MURDERED Samus' parents, and the monster she has a personal vendetta against. Them both being in Smash is odd.

The reason the guy lost credibility calimed that Rool and Ridley are to big to be in Smash. Which is an entirely untrue statement. Rool is the size of Bowser for crying out loud and Bowser isn't to big for Smash. Ridley can easily be made to fit the SSB4 roster, just look at his size in some of the Nes or Snes games he was in or at the intro theme to Melee. He could be resized to fit with the character pretty well. You say that Ridley has no character yet at the same time say that he is a murderer and a monster whihc is where his character is at. And since does having character actually matter? Before Uprising was released it could be argued the Pit has no character. And it can still be argued today that G&W has no character, ICs have no character, ROB has no character. Yet Brawl gave them character. Making the having no character argument rather invalid tbh.