Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[FalKoopa]

Why is everyone looking so deeply into that picture?

*Points at your signature.*

 

[BluePikmin11]

What if Sakurai puts a SSB4 Model of Palutena on Twitter, would you believe?

 

[FalKoopa]

What if Sakurai puts a SSB4 Model of Palutena on Twitter, would you believe?

That would confirm her to be in the game.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Why is everyone looking so deeply into that picture?

Well the picture was posted by the guy who is leading the development of the game.
So a picture, which coincidentally has familiar characters that have appeared in past Super Smash Bros. games, should be taken with some merit as it may have some relation to the game he is currently working on.

Assuming we believe this picture, Dark Pit will be in the roster.

As for Dark Pit's inclusion, who knows. That could very well be the case. But going by Sakurai's recent guidelines, Dark Pit would have to offer something PRETTY unique from Pit to be included.
This picture too was tweeted by Sakurai:

Should we disregard this picture too?? Should we just disregard all pictures posted on Twitter and only acknowledge the Miiverse ones???

*Points at your signature.*

Thanks...

Not saying that the figurine picture is a end all be all guys; But seeing how Sakurai has stated that his mind is only fixated on the development of this game, and at the same time he is posting things like this; It should at LEAST be considered.

 

[volbound1700]

Roy was added in later as a clone of Marth. He was not going to be in Melee initially.
He also was not added because he would be the most recent Lord. That was merely a coincidence.
Sakurai saw potential in him with his fire sword and viewed him as a character that would become popular, so he just rolled with it.

So no, Roy is not a good example. Unless Roy was in the game instead of Marth (or Leif instead of Marth).

It irks me when people are hypocritical in their criticisms.

On top of that, I wasn't even making a comment about Fire Emblem. I was commented Sakurai doesn't always selected the newest character when selecting a franchise.

 

[jaytalks]

I always Dark Pit can be included as an easy semi-clone. He's the best out of the dark versions of hero: Dark Samus, Dark Link, Shadow Mario, Shadow, etc. But he would also open the door to those types of characters. It would fun if the announcer calls him Pittoo, and he quickly corrects him by saying "It's Dark Pit!"

 

[KurimuChizu]

IMO...I think each series will have a new rep,even that mario series(who already has like 8?). Pokemon will get Zoroark..maybe mew2's new form, Sonic will get another character( Theres MANY to choose from) F zero gets Goro, Fire Emblem gets Chrom, etc etc...
Honestly I dont Care who they put in or cut...other then ..as long as its fair and for the best, i believe Sakurai will make the BEST choices. ( Has been MIA since Melee...kinda missing him to)

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Some of use can't read Japanese. and I will not go near google translate becuas eof how hirrible it is. So cna someone who knows Japanese translate? >_>

I can take a look at it.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Krystal supporters probably dislike Wolf.

So true, but, other Krystal Supporters are usually Clone Nazis


Also, not to be insulting, but ANYBODY who doubts Pok'emon Trainer for a second should take time off of Smashboards for a day, and think about what they just said.

I always Dark Pit can be included as an easy semi-clone. He's the best out of the dark versions of hero: Dark Samus, Dark Link, Shadow Mario, Shadow, etc. But he would also open the door to those types of characters. It would fun if the announcer calls him Pittoo, and he quickly corrects him by saying "It's Dark Pit!"

If you have Dark Pit, don't forget to add Starly, Blue Toad, Yellow Toad, separate Popo & Nana, and then make all the different colored yoshis separate characters.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Also, not to be insulting, but ANYBODY who doubts Pok'emon Trainer for a second should take time off of Smashboards for a day, and think about what they just said.

Questioning the return of an unpopular character that takes more time to develop than most other characters isn't a sign of stupidity. If anything, it's a better sign of understanding than bold claims like yours will ever be.

Between the Wii Fit Trainer and the fact that Sakurai wants to keep diversity in a roster the same size as Brawl's, there's always the possibility. Likelihood, no, but chance, yes. Don't shoot people down for considering that.

 

[---]

Here's sauce on the Mysterious Murasame Castle thing.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/PostReturn025.html

5th post down.

Probably should have just posted this.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

ROSTER UPDATE! 1 Roster addition. 5 Possibility additions.

NEW ADDITIONS:

Actual Roster

Masked Skull Kid - Added him on account of the chance that Toon Link MAY not reappear (which will be dumb if Sakurai decides that.) I added Skull Kid for a number of reasons. NOTE: Skull Kid WITHOUT the mask is NOT my prediction at all. I wouldn't even consider that. But the masked Skull Kid is one of the most popular Nintendo villains.

1. 2nd most popular Zelda Villian.
2. Majora's Mask is the most remembered Zelda game and has a huge impact on Nintendo's History as well as Zelda's.
3. Skull Kid won a poll and I believe Sakurai was AWARE of a recent petition last year for Skull Kid.

Other Predictions and/or Possibilities

Donkey Kong JR: He will never get in over King K. Rool. But, because of his popularity from the arcade game at least makes him a POSSIBILITY for a semi-clone character. And there are going to be SOME semi-clones. However being a semi-clone is not my reason for adding him. He is a very popular Retro character along with Takamaru, Little Mac, Ninten, and Sheriff.

Tingle - I used to think Tingle was the dumbest idea for a character ever, but I've learned he is a popular character and has move set potential as well. He is famous and reoccurring in the Zelda universe and has even had his own spin-off title. To me Tingle was always the "Jar Jar Binks" of Zelda. However he is very popular, very requested, has a ton of potential for moves and I can imagine him getting in. I put him as one of my MOST predicted characters.

Medusa - Medusa is just another idea for a Semi-clone. But, Sakurai isn't going to add somebody for the sole purpose of coming up with semi-cones. All we really need is Palutena (Who I think is Guaranteed to be in SSB4). But, whether Sakurai will try to push it and make Medusa unlockable becaue he considers her an important role in the series or a good idea for a villian rep is again "at least a possibility." But, not very likely in my opinion. And never over Palutena. That'd be stupid.

Waluigi - Mostly account of the requests he gets. However if he did get in I believe he would be re-worked as a Wario Ware styled character. It would be weird if Waluigi was a Mario character, but Wario wasn't. Will he be a Semi-Clone? I can't really say, but he can certainly have his own moves. I don't think Waluigi is essential at all, but Sakurai COULD put him in to please requesters of characters.

Rosalina - She is unnecessary, especially since we have peach. But, she can work very well which is why I added her as a possibility. What makes her unlikely though is the better choices being Bowser JR & Paper Mario. But, with her cosmic powers and popularity she is still possible, but one of my least likely characters.


Poke'mon Trainer B - She is not a new addition, but I'd like to note that I predict there could be 2 Poke'mon Trainers. One as a starter and one as an unlockable. But, this would interfere with the requests to keep Lucario if we can.

I know I put two characters mostly because of requests, but I'd like to make it clear: I DO NOT ADD CHARACTERS BASED ON REQUESTS! I would never add a character just because everybody wants them and there are some characters A LOT of people have that I just don't agree with at all.

I will only add a highly requested character to my prediction roster if they are popular and have move set potential.

 

[MagnesD3]

I always Dark Pit can be included as an easy semi-clone. He's the best out of the dark versions of hero: Dark Samus, Dark Link, Shadow Mario, Shadow, etc. But he would also open the door to those types of characters. It would fun if the announcer calls him Pittoo, and he quickly corrects him by saying "It's Dark Pit!"

I doubt he is the best, dark Samus and shadow Mario would have extremely unique movesets.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Double post in one post? That's gotta be a new record.

I wish he would listen to the others that actually gave reasons for why Skull Kid won't make it. He seems set on the idea that we're talking about Maskless Skull Kid when we're talking about any Skull Kid. He's also absolutely certain that Skull Kid is the most memorable Zelda villain when he was only a major antagonist in one game. Don't get me wrong, I love Majora's Mask, but really, how long is he going to tightly grip the notion that Skull Kid has a chance nowadays?

Other than that, it's as meh as always.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The reason Skull Kid is not going to get in is not Ghirahim. He may be popular for Smash, but notice how most people on this site state why he should NOT be in. Here are a few that I can come up with:

1) His popularity for Smash is overrated.
2) He is a one shot character from an old game. Note that Midna and Zant starred in a more recent game to Brawl and were not added.
3) There are more important characters to have added from The Legend of Zelda.
4) What exactly makes him unique? It's not really obvious at all to me.
5) He is far less deserving than almost every popular newcomer. Does Skull Kid really stack up with Ridley, Mewtwo, K.Rool, Roy/Chrom, Palutena, etc...? No, I would say he does not.
6) Why should one game in a series get a rep? There are other characters that have appeared in multiple titles across the spectrum of series in Smash that deserve a spot a hell of a lot more than Skull Kid, and are more recent to boot.
7) Compared to Shulk, Skull Kid really has nothing that goes for his character, as Majora is the one in control the entire time, and again, I would need some sort of evidence that he could add something to the game that a character like Shulk couldn't. Shulk could be a swordsmen with magic abilities etc..., but what does Skull Kid have besides dropping the Moon? Not much that I can remember.

 

[Sebz]

Sorry to reawaken the Fire Emblem debate, but I would like to see someone who doesn't wield a sword make it into the game.

I was wondering who is popular enough to fit this bill, so I'll refer to the community. Personally I would love for someone like Hector to be added since I love playing heavy hitting axe wielders, but I don't know if he's popular or relevant enough to be added.

 

[mimgrim]

^I think you forgot one thing though. Masked Link would be waaaay better. Being able to replace Toon Link as child Link. But I don't see that being likely anymore.

Also only one person commented on my new roster, and he never replied back when I rebulted his statement of having a Chrom + Lucina or Robin character not being a good idea due to it never being in FE, when it was in the most recent FE game being represented by characters from the most recent FE game.

 

[Morbi]

The reason Skull Kid is not going to get in is not Ghirahim. He may be popular for Smash, but notice how most people on this site state why he should NOT be in. Here are a few that I can come up with:

1) His popularity for Smash is overrated.
2) He is a one shot character from an old game. Note that Midna and Zant starred in a more recent game to Brawl and were not added.
3) There are more important characters to have added from The Legend of Zelda.
4) What exactly makes him unique? It's not really obvious at all to me.
5) He is far less deserving than almost every popular newcomer. Does Skull Kid really stack up with Ridley, Mewtwo, K.Rool, Roy/Chrom, Palutena, etc...? No, I would say he does not.
6) Why should one game in a series get a rep? There are other characters that have appeared in multiple titles across the spectrum of series in Smash that deserve a spot a hell of a lot more than Skull Kid, and are more recent to boot.
7) Compared to Shulk, Skull Kid really has nothing that goes for his character, as Majora is the one in control the entire time, and again, I would need some sort of evidence that he could add something to the game that a character like Shulk couldn't. Shulk could be a swordsmen with magic abilities etc..., but what does Skull Kid have besides dropping the Moon? Not much that I can remember.

1) That is obviously an opinion. It is hardly a reason. You could have re-worded it to... "I don't want him". Popularity for a character cant be overrated by definition. If he has high demand he is requested frequently. If he is "overrated" that is a good thing to look for in a potential contender.
2) Technically all Zelda characters are. I mean in each game they get recycled for other incarnations of themselves. So that argument isn't feasible. It is relevant though. Another rebuttal is that the character does not need to be important to the series to make it in the game. As witnessed by characters like Falco.
3) Such as? We already have the Triforce. There are not too many other characters we need. So why not have one with high demand? I can't really think of any other important characters from the franchise that NEED to be in.
4) He is a character that is possessed by a mask. This is obviously not done with any other character. It is interesting because we are not fighting as the character model. Similar to PKMN trainer. His body-type is slightly different from other candidates (he is a Skull-Kid so naturally he is humanoid but with some different attributes). He also happens to own two fairies. He also has a vast array of magical abilities (magical mask and what not). Tendrils and electricity are used in the final fight along with several other forms.
5) This is entirely subjective. I would have to say... yes. Yes he does stack up with someone like Roy or Palutena. They are major secondary characters just like he is. Palutena is a good example of another Skull-Kid character. We never really see what Palutena could do. People obviously say she has move-set potential. The same can be said about Skull-Kid. We never truly see what he can do. However, we do get a taste of his power.
6) This is extremely similar to point 2. I would almost say that you are padding your argument. I guess you put the universal spin on it to make it apply to other franchises. I would need a few examples to actually contradict the specifications of this point.
7) Why are we comparing Shulk and Skull Kid. I realize I just kind of jumped into this argument. So that is on me. However, as mentioned above he has multiple forms. He uses tendrils and electricity. The mask is obviously powerful. It can be used for an assortment of magic such as transforming Link into a Deku scrub. He can also hover. Perhaps you have never fought the final boss? He is actually quite unique.

This was just a devil's advocate argument. I wanted a REAL list of reasons as to why Skull-Kid/Majora wouldn't work. You definitely failed to meet my expectations with such subjective points. I personally want him in the game. However, I know that he doesn't stand a chance. This was just to show that your entire wall of "evidence" was nothing more than opinion and that anyone could do the same exact thing with the opposite perspective.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Sorry to reawaken the Fire Emblem debate, but I would like to see someone who doesn't wield a sword make it into the game.

I was wondering who is popular enough to fit this bill, so I'll refer to the community. Personally I would love for someone like Hector to be added since I love playing heavy hitting axe wielders, but I don't know if he's popular or relevant enough to be added.

It seems Sebz is awakening one of the most heated topics of all of character discussion.

I'm sure most people would, but there really aren't any notable characters that don't use swords. Every lord except for Micaiah, Hector, and Eliwood has used swords as their exclusive weapon of choice. Even then, all three of those lords have very little relevance to the series as a whole. That's why it mainly comes down to the blue-haired swordsmen and Roy.

^I think you forgot one thing though. Masked Link would be waaaay better. Being able to replace Toon Link as child Link. But I don't see that being likely anymore.

Also only one person commented on my new roster, and he never replied back when I rebulted his statement of having a Chrom + Lucina or Robin character not being a good idea due to it never being in FE, when it was in the most recent FE game being represented by characters from the most recent FE game.

Not like that reason matters at all. Noah is the only one shoving Skull Kid down our throats, and he is absolutely adamant that his logic is infallible. His opinion is fact, period. He's going to be using a lot of all-caps words and opinionated bullcrap soon as he replies to Soliosis Jones, just watch.

Don't try to reason with him is all I'm saying.

Your roster is okay. Not particularly interesting, but I could tolerate it if the SSB4 roster came out as so. The only real issues I see with it is that some of your series, particularly Mario, Star Fox, and Pokemon, seem rather bloated in representation. That's merely my opinion though. "Over-represenation" is subjective to many, I gotta admit. Even so, 6 Mario characters seems excessive.

 

[jaytalks]

I doubt he is the best, dark Samus and shadow Mario would have extremely unique movesets.

No I meant the most interesting character out of the bunch. He's an absolutely fantastic character in Uprising. By the end of his chapters, you even root for him, but in a different way than Pit. I would totally get Dark Pit: Uprising.

So true, but, other Krystal Supporters are usually Clone Nazis
Also, not to be insulting, but ANYBODY who doubts Pok'emon Trainer for a second should take time off of Smashboards for a day, and think about what they just said.
If you have Dark Pit, don't forget to add Starly, Blue Toad, Yellow Toad, separate Popo & Nana, and then make all the different colored yoshis separate characters.

Any commenting on Pokemon Trainer possible removal has to do with the time it takes to implement the character, which Sakurai has mentioned was very difficult in Brawl, and the series generational nature. It has nothing to do with his place in Nintendo history, which is well earned. But Smash has also been so Pokemon generation 1 focused. It's really not hard to see why a generational series like Pokemon would lend itself to discussions about other generational representation. There are plenty of younger fans whose first game was one of the later games in the series, and it's in Nintendo's best interest to look towards that. And Sakurai has already acknowledged that the Pokemon Company puts in its input as well. So there are plenty of reasons for even just a little doubt in Pokemon Trainers' chances. If we get some of the rosters people are predicting, we'd have Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, Pikachu, and Pkmn Trainer. Which would technically be all generation 1.

Like I said, Dark Pit would open the door to those type of characters.

Sorry to reawaken the Fire Emblem debate, but I would like to see someone who doesn't wield a sword make it into the game.

I was wondering who is popular enough to fit this bill, so I'll refer to the community. Personally I would love for someone like Hector to be added since I love playing heavy hitting axe wielders, but I don't know if he's popular or relevant enough to be added.

Micaiah, Robin (Avatar from FE:A), and Hector are the only main characters that fit the bill in the modern generations. Hector would be awesome, and he would be even better heavy than Ike. Micaiah would use light magic, and would also be a great change of pace. Robin seems like the most like, but she/he does use a sword, but she/he can also use magic mainly as well. Robin has the best chance, but the character would have to wear a hood or canonized as male or female with a particular look and voice.

Edit: I forgot about Ephraim. He's my pick out of the four, because the way he swings his lance is awesome. I would pick Micaiah, but then she would be punching and kicking in the game, which I don't think mages should do. If Sakurai can pull a Mega Man and she doesn't punch or kick she's got my vote.

^I think you forgot one thing though. Masked Link would be waaaay better. Being able to replace Toon Link as child Link. But I don't see that being likely anymore.

Also only one person commented on my new roster, and he never replied back when I rebulted his statement of having a Chrom + Lucina or Robin character not being a good idea due to it never being in FE, when it was in the most recent FE game being represented by characters from the most recent FE game.

Masked Link would be awesome, but developing would face the same problems as Pokemon Trainer. It would be developing three characters basically.

On your roster: Too much Mario, but I like your selection for the DK series and Star Fox. I am very much in favor of Chrom and Lucina pairing, so us FE:A fans don't go crazy against each other. It's the ultimate solution. I list the pairing in my Final Smash for both characters on both threads should they be single characters. Aside from the Mario additions, all your additions are very reasonable.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

1) That is obviously an opinion. It is hardly a reason. You could have re-worded it to... "I don't want him". Popularity for a character cant be overrated by definition. If he has high demand he is requested frequently. If he is "overrated" that is a good thing to look for in a potential contender.
2) Technically all Zelda characters are. I mean in each game they get recycled for other incarnations of themselves. So that argument isn't feasible. It is relevant though. Another rebuttal is that the character does not need to be important to the series to make it in the game. As witnessed by characters like Falco.
3) Such as? We already have the Triforce. There are not too many other characters we need. So why not have one with high demand? I can't really think of any other important characters from the franchise that NEED to be in.
4) He is a character that is possessed by a mask. This is obviously not done with any other character. It is interesting because we are not fighting as the character model. Similar to PKMN trainer. His body-type is slightly different from other candidates (he is a Skull-Kid so naturally he is humanoid but with some different attributes). He also happens to own two fairies. He also has a vast array of magical abilities (magical mask and what not). Tendrils and electricity are used in the final fight along with several other forms.
5) This is entirely subjective. I would have to say... yes. Yes he does stack up with someone like Roy or Palutena. They are major secondary characters just like he is. Palutena is a good example of another Skull-Kid character. We never really see what Palutena could do. People obviously say she has move-set potential. The same can be said about Skull-Kid. We never truly see what he can do. However, we do get a taste of his power.
6) This is extremely similar to point 2. I would almost say that you are padding your argument. I guess you put the universal spin on it to make it apply to other franchises. I would need a few examples to actually contradict the specifications of this point.
7) Why are we comparing Shulk and Skull Kid. I realize I just kind of jumped into this argument. So that is on me. However, as mentioned above he has multiple forms. He uses tendrils and electricity. The mask is obviously powerful. It can be used for an assortment of magic such as transforming Link into a Deku scrub. He can also hover. Perhaps you have never fought the final boss? He is actually quite unique.

This was just a devil's advocate argument. I wanted a REAL list of reasons as to why Skull-Kid/Majora wouldn't work. You definitely failed to meet my expectations with such subjective points. I personally want him in the game. However, I know that he doesn't stand a chance. This was just to show that your entire wall of "evidence" was nothing more than opinion and that anyone could do the same exact thing with the opposite perspective.

To defend parts of his argument:

2.) The difference however is that the incarnations are characters nonetheless. Throughout the series, Tingle is not the same Tingle, nor is Impa the same Impa. But they re-appear time and time again in name and often in appearance.
3.) Ghirahim and Midna both currently have higher priority, if we're going by fan demand. Vaati has made more appearances otherwise and better fulfills the role of magical side-antagonist.
5.) The part where that counter-argument fails is where both the other examples have actually been seen fighting. Palutena is a boss fight (twice) in Kid Icarus: Uprising, meaning we do see her fighting potential then. Roy himself is not a secondary character, but the main character of his own game that doesn't have only implied abilities. Skull Kid's only abilities seen on screen are cursing victims to being transformed and causing the moon to fall. Every other mention of his powers consist of stealing, blocking paths, and de-aging, meaning a large amount of his moveset would have be made from scratch, something a character should not be subjected to when others of the same series have more potential actually shown on-screen.

I myself would love to see him, but the fact is that he simply does not have the same merit other Zelda characters do, as he is neither recurring nor recent. And then there was the whole Masked Link idea as a Majora's Mask rep. as well. Zelda is simply too large to just go back and dig Skull Kid out of a pile of other potential candidates.

I do love a good devil's advocate, though. Mixes things up.

 

[mimgrim]

It seems Sebz is awakening one of the most heated topics of all of character discussion.

I'm sure most people would, but there really aren't any notable characters that don't use swords. Every lord except for Micaiah, Hector, and Eliwood has used swords as their exclusive weapon of choice. Even then, all three of those lords have very little relevance to the series as a whole. That's why it mainly comes down to the blue-haired swordsmen and Roy.


Not like that reason matters at all. Noah is the only one shoving Skull Kid down our throats, and he is absolutely adamant that his logic is infallible. His opinion is fact, period. He's going to be using a lot of all-caps words and opinionated bullcrap soon as he replies to Soliosis Jones, just watch.

Don't try to reason with him is all I'm saying.

Your roster is okay. Not particularly interesting, but I could tolerate it if the SSB4 roster came out as so. The only real issues I see with it is that some of your series, particularly Mario, Star Fox, and Pokemon, seem rather bloated in representation. That's merely my opinion though. "Over-represenation" is subjective to many, I gotta admit. Even so, 6 Mario characters seems excessive.

You forgot Ephriam, he wields Lances as his main weapon.

If you want to get technical, Mario would have 10 reps in that sense as Wario, DK, diddy, Yoshia and all that can be considered part of the Mario world. However Super Mario would still only have 4 reps, though if what I want happens it would be 3 with Luigi representing the Luigi Mansion games instead though I doubt it would happen but jsut as long as he get vaccum powers i won't really care. Waluigi isn't in there to represent the Super Mario series but the Mario Sports games with having moves based on various Mario Sports games. King Boo would represent the Luigi's Mansion games and would offer a rather uniqe moveset. So really the new Mario character would represent different game series rom the Super Mario world, just liek yoshi, Wario, and even DK and Diddy. Pokemon would have the same amount of reps as it did in Brawl, so I don't really see that as being over representation. The thing that greatly diffintriate my Roster is the lack of the likes like Isa/Saki, Issac/Mathew, and Shulk and that is because I do not see them getting in tbh. Honestly the only hard part of my roster was deciding on Pac-Man as I still feel the leak has some credibility but people also give off good points as to why not to include him. I was very tempted to put in a Castlevania character instead BUT I feel like Namco will get 1 rep, even though Sakurai said they won't be getting special treatment but I took that to mean that SSB4 just won't be getting more then 1 rep from Namco. And Pac seems like the best choice for that, though a Tales of character from a nintendo system could also make it, just not as good a chance as Pac imo. But I really want to put in Alucard jsut cause of the new Castlvania game that was for the 3DS but I also don't want to many 3rd parties. ;-;

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

1) That is obviously an opinion. It is hardly a reason. You could have re-worded it to... "I don't want him". Popularity for a character cant be overrated by definition. If he has high demand he is requested frequently. If he is "overrated" that is a good thing to look for in a potential contender.
2) Technically all Zelda characters are. I mean in each game they get recycled for other incarnations of themselves. So that argument isn't feasible. It is relevant though. Another rebuttal is that the character does not need to be important to the series to make it in the game. As witnessed by characters like Falco.
3) Such as? We already have the Triforce. There are not too many other characters we need. So why not have one with high demand? I can't really think of any other important characters from the franchise that NEED to be in.
4) He is a character that is possessed by a mask. This is obviously not done with any other character. It is interesting because we are not fighting as the character model. Similar to PKMN trainer. His body-type is slightly different from other candidates (he is a Skull-Kid so naturally he is humanoid but with some different attributes). He also happens to own two fairies. He also has a vast array of magical abilities (magical mask and what not). Tendrils and electricity are used in the final fight along with several other forms.
5) This is entirely subjective. I would have to say... yes. Yes he does stack up with someone like Roy or Palutena. They are major secondary characters just like he is. Palutena is a good example of another Skull-Kid character. We never really see what Palutena could do. People obviously say she has move-set potential. The same can be said about Skull-Kid. We never truly see what he can do. However, we do get a taste of his power.
6) This is extremely similar to point 2. I would almost say that you are padding your argument. I guess you put the universal spin on it to make it apply to other franchises. I would need a few examples to actually contradict the specifications of this point.
7) Why are we comparing Shulk and Skull Kid. I realize I just kind of jumped into this argument. So that is on me. However, as mentioned above he has multiple forms. He uses tendrils and electricity. The mask is obviously powerful. It can be used for an assortment of magic such as transforming Link into a Deku scrub. He can also hover. Perhaps you have never fought the final boss? He is actually quite unique.

This was just a devil's advocate argument. I wanted a REAL list of reasons as to why Skull-Kid/Majora wouldn't work. You definitely failed to meet my expectations with such subjective points. I personally want him in the game. However, I know that he doesn't stand a chance. This was just to show that your entire wall of "evidence" was nothing more than opinion and that anyone could do the same exact thing with the opposite perspective.

Falco is definitely an important character to Star Fox. he is there in every single game, save for Adventures.

Majora is the one who uses those attacks, not Skull Kid. if you can give me a moveset for him from stuff that Skull Kid can do, it might be different.

Impa or Toon Zelda/Tetra are characters that might merit a spot before Skull Kid. I don't even think Zelda needs another rep in general by the way.

Roy is certainly not a secondary character. He is one of the most popular Lords of the Fire Emblem series. Palutena has been shown to have particular abilities in Uprising from the boss battle with her.

Shulk was argued earlier by someone in an effort to ackowledge the "one shot character" argument.

Popularity can absolutely be "overrated". The argument has been made that he is "extremely popular". However, that popularity is not even close to what it would be made out to be. This is what I meant by "overrated".

I have played Majora's Mask. I liked it. However I see nothing in Skull Kid that merits a spot in the Super Smash Bros. roster.

When I say, what he brings to the game, I mean moveset wise what does he bring to the game, not the archetype.

The argument that each character appears once is not great as well. Each character may be a different incarnation, but they are the same character overall. Skull Kid does not have this.

 

[mimgrim]

To defend parts of his argument:


Palutena is a boss fight (twice) in Kid Icarus: Uprising, meaning we do see her fighting potential then.

It's been awhile since I have done KIU story mode, but I distincly remember fighting Plautena once..... Unless you count the Palutena duplicate? But to be fair that Palutena fights the same way before she reveals her true form for I believe, in which she is no longer Palutena. I could be over thinking this, but sometime stuff like this I tend to go a bit overboard on... lol

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The reason Skull Kid is not going to get in is not Ghirahim. He may be popular for Smash, but notice how most people on this site state why he should NOT be in. Here are a few that I can come up with:

1) His popularity for Smash is overrated.
2) He is a one shot character from an old game. Note that Midna and Zant starred in a more recent game to Brawl and were not added.
3) There are more important characters to have added from The Legend of Zelda.
4) What exactly makes him unique? It's not really obvious at all to me.
5) He is far less deserving than almost every popular newcomer. Does Skull Kid really stack up with Ridley, Mewtwo, K.Rool, Roy/Chrom, Palutena, etc...? No, I would say he does not.
6) Why should one game in a series get a rep? There are other characters that have appeared in multiple titles across the spectrum of series in Smash that deserve a spot a hell of a lot more than Skull Kid, and are more recent to boot.
7) Compared to Shulk, Skull Kid really has nothing that goes for his character, as Majora is the one in control the entire time, and again, I would need some sort of evidence that he could add something to the game that a character like Shulk couldn't. Shulk could be a swordsmen with magic abilities etc..., but what does Skull Kid have besides dropping the Moon? Not much that I can remember.

Responses

1) Says?
2) Midna and Zant had no reason other than being in a recent game. Where as Skull Kid has SEVERAL reasons other than being the recent game. Skull Kid clearly has other reasons better than recency (I lose hope when people's character predictions and are based on recency and nothing else.)
3) Like Tingle and nobody else?
4) Well, if the power of the mask wasn't enough, than I don't know what to say.
5) I don't know was Villager, R.O.B. or Wii Fit Trainer? Because the ONLY characters that get into SSB4 will be the most requested ones from Smashboards. I guess their impact or popularity doesn't mean crap as long as they aren't requested. Also none of those are Zelda Characters.
6) A: Because he is the 2nd most popular Zelda Villian and the game stands out more. I guess because it was only 1 game that completely and automatically dismisses it from all of it's significance, popularity, and recognition as well as the character's.
B: Why shouldn't it? Is Majora's Mask ALL OF THE SUDDEN an obscure title??? Will NOBODY recognize who he is or what game he's from? Guess this means we should remove Sheik and that Ice Climbers got in for no reason. ( I think if Majora's Mask was either NES or Wii U you would say otherwise)

7) , yeah if Sakurai can't think of moves based off the power of the mask I will be greatly surprised.

These are all good reasons to DOUBT him, but this does not de-confirm him in any way.

If for any other reason than WHEN Majora's Mask CAME OUT. I'll gladly listen, but this is beginning to urk me a bit. This whole strict policy of SSB consisting of "Nintend's Latest Hits" and not "Nintendo All-Stars".

You asked me if I saw WHY people dismiss him, and gave me 7 reasons why. And I'll state WHY people dismiss him using the reasons, but in shortened form

1) Is popularity is overrated acording to an anonymous source because he wasn't a recent Zelda character
2) Midna and Zant were recent characters that didn't get added. His only reason for being added in Melee is that he was a recent Zelda character.
3) Besides Tingle, Giriham is more important, because unlike Skull Kid he was a recent Zelda character.
4) I didn't come up with my own moveset for him meaning Sakurai can't ( ) so he obviously has no uniqueness.
5) The appearance of Ridley, Palutena, and Mewtwo somehow prevents us from having another Zelda Character. Except Giriham because he's sort of up there with him (because he's more recent)
6) There are other characters more deserving because they are more recent (and Skull Kid wasn't a recent Zelda Character)
7) Same as #4

Please stop dismissing Majora's Mask's and it's villian's great impact because of recency. You know sometimes you have to think outside of the box. Sometimes the characters that appear in SSB aren't always the one's that EVERYBODY has on their rosters and EVERYBODY WANTS.


EX:

Skull Kid nor Majora's Mask has not faded away from Popular Nintendo History.

You've stated your reasons and I've stated mine. I have no further statement. However I will gladly refer the next person back to what ever previous posts state my reasons.

As for Dark Pit's inclusion, who knows. That could very well be the case.

Logic knows. It never really could be the case. If you want a play as Dark Pit, change Pit's color. It's basically the EXACT same thing if not............well, the exact same thing. Even the voice is pretty much the same.

What difference AT ALL does Dark Pit have besides his attitude.

Who would ever even CONSIDER Dark Pit, let alone Masahiro Sakurai?

That's like if the 4 Links from Four Swords were separate characters. or if the Yoshis from Yoshi's Island were.

 

[Morbi]

Falco is definitely an important character to Star Fox. he is there in every single game, save for Adventures.

Majora is the one who uses those attacks, not Skull Kid. if you can give me a moveset for him from stuff that Skull Kid can do, it might be different.

Impa or Toon Zelda/Tetra are characters that might merit a spot before Skull Kid. I don't even think Zelda needs another rep in general by the way.

Roy is certainly not a secondary character. He is one of the most popular Lords of the Fire Emblem series. Palutena has been shown to have particular abilities in Uprising from the boss battle with her.

Shulk was argued earlier by someone in an effort to ackowledge the "one shot character" argument.

Popularity can absolutely be "overrated". The argument has been made that he is "extremely popular". However, that popularity is not even close to what it would be made out to be. This is what I meant by "overrated".

I have played Majora's Mask. I liked it. However I see nothing in Skull Kid that merits a spot in the Super Smash Bros. roster.

When I say, what he brings to the game, I mean moveset wise what does he bring to the game, not the archetype.

The argument that each character appears once is not great as well. Each character may be a different incarnation, but they are the same character overall. Skull Kid does not have this.

Well most of those are still subjective. My main point is that I wanted some valid reasons as to why Skull-Kid wasn't plausible. I honestly thought we were gift wrapping Majora and Skull-Kid together to get the antagonist of Majora's Mask. I don't want just any Skull-Kid. In fact, I mostly want Majora with Skull-KId as the host body. I have never played Uprising so forgive that Palutena hiccup. As for Roy I was mostly referring to Melee at that point. That was my bad. I should have specified.

I definitely disagree on the Falco thing though. Peppy is way more important IMHO.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

1) That is obviously an opinion. It is hardly a reason. You could have re-worded it to... "I don't want him". Popularity for a character cant be overrated by definition. If he has high demand he is requested frequently. If he is "overrated" that is a good thing to look for in a potential contender.
2) Technically all Zelda characters are. I mean in each game they get recycled for other incarnations of themselves. So that argument isn't feasible. It is relevant though. Another rebuttal is that the character does not need to be important to the series to make it in the game. As witnessed by characters like Falco.
3) Such as? We already have the Triforce. There are not too many other characters we need. So why not have one with high demand? I can't really think of any other important characters from the franchise that NEED to be in.
4) He is a character that is possessed by a mask. This is obviously not done with any other character. It is interesting because we are not fighting as the character model. Similar to PKMN trainer. His body-type is slightly different from other candidates (he is a Skull-Kid so naturally he is humanoid but with some different attributes). He also happens to own two fairies. He also has a vast array of magical abilities (magical mask and what not). Tendrils and electricity are used in the final fight along with several other forms.
5) This is entirely subjective. I would have to say... yes. Yes he does stack up with someone like Roy or Palutena. They are major secondary characters just like he is. Palutena is a good example of another Skull-Kid character. We never really see what Palutena could do. People obviously say she has move-set potential. The same can be said about Skull-Kid. We never truly see what he can do. However, we do get a taste of his power.
6) This is extremely similar to point 2. I would almost say that you are padding your argument. I guess you put the universal spin on it to make it apply to other franchises. I would need a few examples to actually contradict the specifications of this point.
7) Why are we comparing Shulk and Skull Kid. I realize I just kind of jumped into this argument. So that is on me. However, as mentioned above he has multiple forms. He uses tendrils and electricity. The mask is obviously powerful. It can be used for an assortment of magic such as transforming Link into a Deku scrub. He can also hover. Perhaps you have never fought the final boss? He is actually quite unique.

This was just a devil's advocate argument. I wanted a REAL list of reasons as to why Skull-Kid/Majora wouldn't work. You definitely failed to meet my expectations with such subjective points. I personally want him in the game. However, I know that he doesn't stand a chance. This was just to show that your entire wall of "evidence" was nothing more than opinion and that anyone could do the same exact thing with the opposite perspective.

YOU GET:

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Logic knows. It never really could be the case. If you want a play as Dark Pit, change Pit's color.

>Insisting Skull Kid is a legitimate choice because of how he was a popular antagonist in one of the most memorable games in his series. Believes he has plenty of fighting potential based on implied abilities and has room for moves to be invented for his moveset.
>Completely disregards Dark Pit as a choice, despite having the exact same reasons to be included as the above.

Oh god I'm crying at the irony.

 

[Morbi]

>Insisting Skull Kid is a legitimate choice because of how he was a popular antagonist in one of the most memorable games in his series. Believes he has plenty of fighting potential based on implied abilities and has room for moves to be invented for his moveset.
>Completely disregards Dark Pit as a choice, despite having the exact same reasons to be included as the above.

Oh god I'm crying at the irony.

Yeah. Only difference is that Dark Pit is already in Brawl as a pallet swap. If Majora was a pallet swap for someone we wouldn't be discussing this... wait a minute... Majora couldn't be a pallet swap considering how different he is to say... everyone else in the game! I mean to dismiss Dark Pit is nothing like dismissing Dark Ganon/Link/Zelda Majora.

I mean no doubt Dark Pit COULD be different if you forced it. I think most Kid Icarus fans would rather Palutena or Magnus though.

 

[mimgrim]

>Insisting Skull Kid is a legitimate choice because of how he was a popular antagonist in one of the most memorable games in his series. Believes he has plenty of fighting potential based on implied abilities and has room for moves to be invented for his moveset.
>Completely disregards Dark Pit as a choice, despite having the exact same reasons to be included as the above.

Oh god I'm crying at the irony.

And I'm crying at the fact that people just seem to drop discussions with me. Am I that unlikeable. ;-;

 

[---]

Skull Kid

 

[Autumn ♫]

My main reason against Skull Kid is that there are more important characters to represent, such as
Tingle
Impa
and Vaati
I only see Skull Kid having a slightly bigger chance than Wart does. Which both don't have a very good chance of getting in.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Yeah. Only difference is that Dark Pit is already in Brawl as a pallet swap. If Majora was a pallet swap for someone we wouldn't be discussing this... wait a minute... Majora couldn't be a pallet swap considering how different he is to say... everyone else in the game! I mean to dismiss Dark Pit is nothing like dismissing Dark Ganon/Link/Zelda Majora.

I mean no doubt Dark Pit COULD be different if you forced it. I think most Kid Icarus fans would rather Palutena or Magnus though.

Yes, dismissing Dark Pit, a major character from one game in the Kid Icarus series, is very much like dismissing Majora, a major character from one game in the Zelda series.

I'm not in support of Dark Pit myself, but I find it funny that some people will legitimately dismiss a point like that when it's right there in their faces.

If you support Skull Kid yet find Dark Pit to be ridiculous, you're being hypocritical. Palette swap or not, the parallels exist and are very much alike, period.

And I'm crying at the fact that people just seem to drop discussions with me. Am I that unlikeable. ;-;

Don't worry bb i still luv u.

I've been there. It helps to match the current topic rather than control it yourself.

 

[jaytalks]

It seems Sebz is awakening one of the most heated topics of all of character discussion.

I'm sure most people would, but there really aren't any notable characters that don't use swords. Every lord except for Micaiah, Hector, and Eliwood has used swords as their exclusive weapon of choice. Even then, all three of those lords have very little relevance to the series as a whole. That's why it mainly comes down to the blue-haired swordsmen and Roy.

Eliwood is a default of sword user. He only uses lances after promotion. And you forgot Ephraim. Don't worry, I did too. and if you go retro, Celica, the priestess (magic) works too. She's from Gaiden.
Leif also has red hair like Roy. He also got an even more awesome redesign in Awakening.

@R.O.B. A lot of good picks here. I think Bowser Jr's best chance is as Bowser clone. A lot of good choices.

I don't agree with basically leaving Pokemon as repped by basically Generation 1, since Mewtwo is still Mewtwo. Considering Sakurai's comments on how Pokemon are selected, I would hope to see generation V and/or VI, and expect to see it, besides Mewtwo. Pokemon and Mario are the series that contend most for five or more reps.

This was just a devil's advocate argument. I wanted a REAL list of reasons as to why Skull-Kid/Majora wouldn't work. You definitely failed to meet my expectations with such subjective points. I personally want him in the game. However, I know that he doesn't stand a chance. This was just to show that your entire wall of "evidence" was nothing more than opinion and that anyone could do the same exact thing with the opposite perspective.

My Argument: In the actual final boss fight, you don't fight the skull kid. You fight Majora's Mask, so the Skull Kid's more of a pawn and not the real villain. Similarly, as the Skull Kid, he doesn't really show any moves that lend him being a character, because you never really fight him.

Majora's Mask itself is the big villain in the game. The mask has an evil spirit in it and that's the game's antagonist. That's why you fight it, its incarnation, and it's wrath. In the Final Boss fight. It has its own subtitle. On every conceivable level of villainy, it's the big bad in the game. After he is freed from the mask (after he fails the mask), the mask tries to kill him. And it calls the Skull Kid a worthless pawn. So the Skull Kid doesn't even qualify as Majora's Mask's real villain. Majora's Mask could work, but it's a hard to have a mask floating without context. Having Skull Kid with a Majora's Mask would not presenting the true villain of the game, or how you fight Majora. And I'm a big advocate of presenting true game mechanics.

And Falco is the second most important member of the Starfox Team. He's the second ranking and second in command. Peppy has already retired from fighting by Command. He's also much older and less likely to engage in hand to hand combat. Since the characters have been taking after their more older roles, he really shouldnt be one of the active duty fighters. It's not just about importance. If Wolf appears in his anti-hero mercenary character from Command and Assault, it would disjointing to have a younger Peppy. Starfox isnt generational like Zelda.

Falco is definitely an important character to Star Fox. he is there in every single game, save for Adventures.

Falco appears at the end of Adventure and saves Fox, rejoining the team.

And to all the Dark Pit/Pittoo haters, I was responding to the twitter pic from Sakurai. But Sakurai loves his clones and love his Kid Icarus. And in the game, you can have any of 8 other weapons besides the bow. It would be pretty easy to diversify his moveset. Like I said, he's an easy clone, and Sakurai does not mind clones or semi-clones.

 

[Autumn ♫]

The only thing Skull Kid/Majora has is his overratedness, if that's a word. I really can't find any other reason for him to be in Smash.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

View attachment 1185

Closed mindedness will lead to you being rather surprised at the SSB4 Roster. Remember The huge list of reasons we had for Villager, and the people we doubted for having them. And now we are going to do it for someone who is even more likely than Villager was to us.

If it ain't Palutena or Ridley, it ain't gonna be a Smash rep

My main reason against Skull Kid is that there are more important characters to represent, such as
Tingle
Impa
and Vaati
I only see Skull Kid having a slightly bigger chance than Wart does. Which both don't have a very good chance of getting in.

Picking Vaati over Skull Kid proves you pick characters for the SOLE reason of how many games they are in and nothing else. Thus you will be very surprised at the roster of SSB4.

Also Wart has a chance in SSB???

 

[Morbi]

Eliwood is a default of sword user. He only uses lances after promotion. And you forgot Ephraim. Don't worry, I did too. and if you go retro, Celica, the priestess (magic) works too. She's from Gaiden.
Leif also has red hair like Roy. He also got an even more awesome redesign in Awakening.

@R.O.B. A lot of good picks here. I think Bowser Jr's best chance is as Bowser clone. A lot of good choices.

I don't agree with basically leaving Pokemon as repped by basically Generation 1, since Mewtwo is still Mewtwo. Considering Sakurai's comments on how Pokemon are selected, I would hope to see generation V and/or VI, and expect to see it, besides Mewtwo. Pokemon and Mario are the series that contend most for five or more reps.


My Argument: In the actual final boss fight, you don't fight the skull kid. You fight Majora's Mask, so the Skull Kid's more of a pawn and not the real villain. Similarly, as the Skull Kid, he doesn't really show any moves that lend him being a character, because you never really fight him.

Majora's Mask itself is the big villain in the game. The mask has an evil spirit in it and that's the game's antagonist. That's why you fight it, its incarnation, and it's wrath. In the Final Boss fight. It has its own subtitle. On every conceivable level of villainy, it's the big bad in the game. After he is freed from the mask (after he fails the mask), the mask tries to kill him. And it calls the Skull Kid a worthless pawn. So the Skull Kid doesn't even qualify as Majora's Mask's real villain. Majora's Mask could work, but it's a hard to have a mask floating without context. Having Skull Kid with a Majora's Mask would not presenting the true villain of the game, or how you fight Majora. And I'm a big advocate of presenting true game mechanics.

And Falco is the second most important member of the Starfox Team. He's the second ranking and second in command. Peppy has already retired from fighting by Command. He's also much older and less likely to engage in hand to hand combat. Since the characters have been taking after their more older roles, he really shouldnt be one of the active duty fighters. It's not just about importance. If Wolf appears in his anti-hero mercenary character from Command and Assault, it would disjointing to have a younger Peppy. Starfox isnt generational like Zelda.


Falco appears at the end of Adventure and saves Fox, rejoining the team.

And to all the Dark Pit/Pittoo haters, I was responding to the twitter pic from Sakurai. But Sakurai loves his clones and love his Kid Icarus. And in the game, you can have any of 8 other weapons besides the bow. It would be pretty easy to diversify his moveset. Like I said, he's an easy clone, and Sakurai does not mind clones or semi-clones.

I was arguing for the main antagonist of Majora's Mask. Not just any random Skull-Kid. As such I want Majora using Skull-Kid as his pawn. They could obviously improvise and use certain moves from each form with Skull-Kid. It wouldn't really accurately portray him. But they could do it.

I don't care about Falco's ranking. I still think Peppy is way more important. In a Professor Oak kind of way. I do not want him in the game or anything crazy like that. I just think he is more important to the Star Fox team. To be honest I think Slippy is more important than Falco too. Falco is a clone of Fox in his own franchise. I mean really?

 

[Neanderthal]

And I'm crying at the fact that people just seem to drop discussions with me. Am I that unlikeable. ;-;

That happens to everyone mate. Usually when you make a point that everyone agrees with. We rarely respond to things we agree with on forums.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Logic knows. It never really could be the case. If you want a play as Dark Pit, change Pit's color. It's basically the EXACT same thing if not............well, the exact same thing. Even the voice is pretty much the same.

What difference AT ALL does Dark Pit have besides his attitude.

Who would ever even CONSIDER Dark Pit, let alone Masahiro Sakurai?

That's like if the 4 Links from Four Swords were separate characters. or if the Yoshis from Yoshi's Island were.

Well i'm in no way a Dark Pit supporter, but as I said if Sakurai were to consider Dark Pit as a potential character, then he would have to think of a whole new moveset. And if you have played Kid Icarus: Uprising you would know that Pit/Dark Pit have a whole arsenal of weapons they could choose from. Anything from claws, staves, blades, orbitars etc...Dark Pit could possibly, use any of those weapons if Sakurai were to consider him.

Besides having the same abilities isn't a valid limitation, seeing how Fox, Wolf and Falco differ in moves. They can use their same weapons in different ways like how Falco kicks his reflector. But like I said i'm no Dark Pit supporter, and would rather have him as an Alt costume. So that twitter post picture can go either way.