Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[TheLastJinjo]

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I don't care about any of these characters outside of Smash. Really. I just want the best game possible, whether via an official release or modding viva la Project M. Period. Characters are just tools for movesets, playstyles, and skillset. Some are better than others in terms of potential. Those are the ones that create the best gameplay. Gameplay is the focus of the Smash, and the sole big thing for it.

You don't seem to understand the true meaning of Smash. If there is one thing people care about in Smash, it's who you get to play as. That is until someone is a clone or an incarnation in which case "to hell with them" .

I don't care how good Smash is, I'm not playing it without my favorite characters.

 

[Johnknight1]

You were just calling a lot of people here ignorant, you indirectly called one guy 8 years old.

Because he claimed Nintendogs being deconfirmed is the same as Ridley's current status, which is a lie, and something that psychologically kids around the age of 8 or 9 understand.

That may be an insult, but it's a scientific fact and a fact of this situation that he needs to understand that he is failing to realize.

And all that is likely caused by either fanboyism, extreme pessimism, extreme optimism,

 

[TrainerLITTLER]

I've never seen such a statement.

Anyone got a link to such a statement=???

No Sakurai wasn't. He didn't get a change for a Kirby game, it was released before he liked because the GameCube was failing (the advertising for that amazing console was terrible), and he quit. That and sequels wore on him. All in all, it was his choice.

Since then, HAL has done spectacular job with Kirby, and Kirby games these days are better than any Kirby games in the past.

And yeah, HAL was minimally involved with Brawl's development, which is why that game was the worst received, balanced, and built game in the series.

As for Smash For... HAL may be involved. Hopefully they are, because they know as much about how to make Smash as anybody, and when them and their top directors ran the show with Sakurai, it pushed the boundaries of gaming, and created something unique and magical gameplay-wise that may never be recreated again.

See? He was given no say in the sequels or release dates of his own series. Thanks, HAL.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

HAPPY NEW YEAR, EVERYONE!!! Now why are we ******** at Johnknight1?

 

[JamesDNaux]

Happy New Leaf Year!

Thank you for your patience. We have customized to roster to suit everyone's needs. We wanted to include more for even more enjoyment, but it seems that we literally could not include more characters. Enjoy

Still no Banjo or Rayman? What blasphemy is this?!

 

[PLATINUM7]

I really don't get all this hope for Sakurai to never work on Smash Bros. again or to have less involvement in Smash's development when he's the one Iwata asks directly and specifically to make Smash.
I also don't get what this has to do with SSB4's roster.

 

[Johnknight1]

You don't seem to understand the true meaning of Smash. If there is one thing people care about in Smash, it's who you get to play as. That is until someone is a clone or an incarnation in which case "to hell with them" .

I don't care how good Smash is, I'm not playing it without my favorite characters.

But if they suck, what's the point=???

The point is, the characters' gameplay and unique personality and stuff via moves has to make you want to come back years from now.

You won't be coming back to a game years from now over and over again just because it has your favorite characters. I don't play Metal Gear ACID years after its' release because it has Snake. I played it once and never touched it again.

Point is, we gotta have the best characters from a gameplay perspective, not a "muh popularity" perspective.

If it was all popularity, we wouldn't have Rosalina + Luma. We'd have a boring and bland Toad. Similar situations would also occur, like Waluigi instead of Ike.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Happy New Leaf Year!

Your profile pic...it is a profile pic.

 

[Johnknight1]

And no, the Villager statement doesn't really apply here. That statement was made long before Smash 4 was even in development. Sakurai had plenty of time to mull over it, and Animal Crossing grew enormously as a franchise between then and Villager's roster placement.

No it didn't.

Wild World had already sold several millions copies by the time Brawl was in development.

Doubt that last statement. Smash makes good money for Nintendo, they'll find someone to carry on Sakurai's load if need be. Whether or not someone will do as good as Sakurai is another question though.

Again, see the Kirby franchise. Kirby makes just as much if not more money post-Sakurai than pre-Sakurai, and the games are vastly superior since then.

Whether that is because of Sakurai or not isn't confirmed or not, but if we saw something similar happen with Smash with the same developer doing a Smash game, there would be an all but confirmed correlation there between Sakurai leaving and a game (series) getting better.

 

[PLATINUM7]

But if they suck, what's the point=???

The point is, the characters' gameplay and unique personality and stuff via moves has to make you want to come back years from now.

You won't be coming back to a game years from now over and over again just because it has your favorite characters. I don't play Metal Gear ACID years after its' release because it has Snake. I played it once and never touched it again.

Point is, we gotta have the best characters from a gameplay perspective, not a "muh popularity" perspective.

If it was all popularity, we wouldn't have Rosalina + Luma. We'd have a boring and bland Toad. Similar situations would also occur, like Waluigi instead of Ike.

It has to be a balance. People come for the characters and stay for the gameplay.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Your profile pic...it is a profile pic.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

 

[TrainerLITTLER]

Because he claimed Nintendogs being deconfirmed is the same as Ridley's current status, which is a lie, and something that psychologically kids around the age of 8 or 9 understand.

They teach kids about Ridley in psychology?

 

[Johnknight1]

I really don't get all this hope for Sakurai to never work on Smash Bros. again or to have less involvement in Smash's development when he's the one Iwata asks directly and specifically to make Smash.
I also don't get what this has to do with SSB4's roster.

Sakurai basically almost entirely controlled roster in Brawl, and chose much of the roster (along with Miyamoto and HAL's staff) in Smash 64 and Melee.

Also, he's just one of several directors. He might be the head one, but that doesn't mean another one couldn't get "promoted" to his spot.

See? He was given no say in the sequels or release dates of his own series. Thanks, HAL.

That was Nintendo's (HQ's) doing, not HAL.

Nintendo then went through huge changes, in order to compete again with Sony in the home console market, which they obviously did (and then some).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

But if they suck, what's the point=???

Point is, we gotta have the best characters from a gameplay perspective, not a "muh popularity" perspective.

You're wrong. Both are equally important. They are both pointless without each other. So why are we acting like one is more important than the other. If a character is cool but sucks, I wont want to play. But, if a character is awesome but is someone I hate, I wont want to play.

They need each other to stay balanced.

 

[TrainerLITTLER]

I really don't get all this hope for Sakurai to never work on Smash Bros. again or to have less involvement in Smash's development when he's the one Iwata asks directly and specifically to make Smash.
I also don't get what this has to do with SSB4's roster.

How dare you dishonor Sakurai's Famuri.

 

[Kenith]

Happy New Leaf Year!

Still no Banjo or Rayman? What blasphemy is this?!

We wanted to include more for even more enjoyment, but it seems that we literally could not include more characters.

Where did everybody go/ No BluePikmin11, no Louie G...

'Tis my gang.

 

[Arcanir]

As for you, consider Sakurai wasn't aware that these random characters had such large fanbases. And perhaps he's seen the spam everywhere, especially on Miiverse, asking for Ridley. He wouldn't want to turn them away from the game before he's introduced someone or thing for them to have to buy the game over, otherwise they'd be so crushed over Ridley they'd turn their heads.

Right... I highly doubt he isn't somewhat aware of characters like Toad's fanbases considering he gets requests from around the world and it does no service to anyone to drag out their deconfirmation. Really, it's better to just get something out of the way so that the fans can adjust then to drag it out and get people more angry and disappointed then they would've been when the rug's pulled from under them.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I really don't get all this hope for Sakurai to never work on Smash Bros.

Thanks for giving us such awesome games, more than half of what we ask for, and risking your own health to do so, Sakurai!

Now **** off!

 

[Johnknight1]

It has to be a balance. People come for the characters and stay for the gameplay.

My point exactly!

Actually, that's a perfect summarized statement of what I'm saying!

Thanks PLATINUM7!

Also, sucking doesn't mean they were overpowered or underpowered, it means their design or execution was bad. Mewtwo's design was bad (minimal psychic moves, despite never really attacking physically), and the execution of his awful hitboxes was awful.

 

[AEMehr]

Thank you for your patience. We have customized to roster to suit everyone's needs. We wanted to include more for even more enjoyment, but it seems that we literally could not include more characters. Enjoy

View attachment 5663

 

[TrainerLITTLER]

Sakurai basically almost entirely controlled roster in Brawl, and chose much of the roster (along with Miyamoto and HAL's staff) in Smash 64 and Melee.

Also, he's just one of several directors. He might be the head one, but that doesn't mean another one couldn't get "promoted" to his spot.

That was Nintendo's (HQ's) doing, not HAL.

Nintendo then went through huge changes, in order to compete again with Sony in the home console market, which they obviously did (and then some).

You've talked a lot about the roles of Sakurai and HAL in the Smash Series, but where's your proof? Did HAL have more control in Melee? Did Sakurai control the Roster in Brawl?

 

[PLATINUM7]

How dare you dishonor Sakurai's Famuri.

What?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

They teach kids about Ridley in psychology?

somebody needs to take a real photo of kids in class being taught by a Photoshopped Ridley pointing to the board with a stick.

 

[Deleted member]

Your reaction to: No Mii, No Takamaru, No Ridley, No Pac-Man, No King K. Rool, No Palutena, No Issac?

Mii:

Takamaru:

Ridley:

(more at the inevitable drama that occurs)
Pac-Man:

King K. Rool:

Palutena:

Isaac:

 

[Johnknight1]

Thanks for giving us such awesome games, more than half of what we ask for, and risking your own health to do so, Sakurai!

Now **** off!

Not our fault he had random hand issues.

Also, he could just take less time and not go total dictator like he did with Brawl over things he has no expertise with.

You're acting like we caused that, when truth be told mother nature and a lack of rest caused this (the latter which is more of a Japan cultural thing than a Sakurai-specific problem).

 

[TrainerLITTLER]

What?

How could you not want Masahiro making SSB? He's the only one who truly understands it, hence he's the creator! You all say that others would do better because you imagine they would do what you want, not what SSB is.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Thanks for giving us such awesome games, more than half of what we ask for, and risking your own health to do so, Sakurai!

Now **** off!

Pretty much.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Not our fault he had random hand issues.

Also, he could just take less time and not go total dictator like he did with Brawl over things he has no expertise with.

You're acting like we caused that, when truth be told mother nature and a lack of rest caused this (the latter which is more of a Japan cultural thing than a Sakurai-specific problem).

jeez, dude. I was just satirically imitating the greedy and ungrateful fans who would want Sakurai to be booted off the project after everything he worked so hard on to give us.

 

[Johnknight1]

You've talked a lot about the roles of Sakurai and HAL in the Smash Series, but where's your proof? Did HAL have more control in Melee? Did Sakurai control the Roster in Brawl?

Sakurai was a part of HAL in Melee, not above Game Arts like he was in Brawl.

So yes, HAL did have a ton of control of Melee, and HAL's other top directors had a lot of say in game design, as did Miyamoto, in Smash 64 and especially Melee (Smash 64 was essentially something of a result of Sakurai messing around to make a game like the Outfoxies, but with Mario's gameplay in a 2 to 4 player environment).

And Sakurai was essentially the ultimate voice in the Brawl roster.

Like all things, this ultimately goes back to the roster.

If Namco Bandai has HAL-esk control (it sounds like they do from what I hear from "sources"), then we can expect Sakurai to not work at an insane pace, the design to be smoother, for more to get done, and in general a better product.

 

[TrainerLITTLER]

Not our fault he had random hand issues.

Also, he could just take less time and not go total dictator like he did with Brawl over things he has no expertise with.

You're acting like we caused that, when truth be told mother nature and a lack of rest caused this (the latter which is more of a Japan cultural thing than a Sakurai-specific problem).

You don't actually have any evidence for the things you claim, do you? Sakurai has calcific tendonitis in his right shoulder that caused multiple ruptures in the muscle. It causes severe pain even when he doesn't move it, and often wakes him up in the night.

This is taken from an interview of his.

 

[PLATINUM7]

How could you not want Masahiro making SSB? He's the only one who truly understands it, hence he's the creator! You all say that others would do better because you imagine they would do what you want, not what SSB is.

I think you either read what I said wrong or more likely I said what I wanted to say wrong.
I don't think that Sakurai should stop being involved with Smash, I just don't understand why OTHER people think that. I personally think Sakurai has done excellent with Smash and should continue working on it.

 

[TrainerLITTLER]

Sakurai was a part of HAL in Melee, not above Game Arts like he was in Brawl.

So yes, HAL did have a ton of control of Melee, and HAL's other top directors had a lot of say in game design, as did Miyamoto, in Smash 64 and especially Melee (Smash 64 was essentially something of a result of Sakurai messing around to make a game like the Outfoxies, but with Mario's gameplay in a 2 to 4 player environment).

And Sakurai was essentially the ultimate voice in the Brawl roster.

Like all things, this ultimately goes back to the roster.

If Namco Bandai has HAL-esk control (it sounds like they do from what I hear from "sources"), then we can expect Sakurai to not work at an insane pace, the design to be smoother, for more to get done, and in general a better product.

And you're proof that this is true?

I think you either read what I said wrong or more likely I said what I wanted to say wrong.
I don't think that Sakurai should stop being involved with Smash, I just don't understand why OTHER people think that. I personally think Sakurai has done excellent with Smash and should continue working on it.

Oh dear, more apologies milord.

In this case, aim what I said at the others.

 

[Johnknight1]

How could you not want Masahiro making SSB?

If a Smash game in development is better off without him than with him.

It really comes down to that.

I don't know the answer to that question, but it is a question worth asking.

Quite frankly, if a game could be better if the Video Game GOD (Miyamoto) wasn't involved (or as we call it, Paper Mario: Sticker Star), why couldn't that be the case for Sakurai, or really any video game developer=???

When Miyamoto did that, it shocked me. It made me think, "what if Sid Meier did that for Civ 6? Kojima with MGS V?" And so on.

The point is not every team and developer will gel, and that sometimes, franchise and employees have to go in opposite directions. It's just a fact of life.

While I am leaving out Game Arts' failures (I'm sure they were many), some of that blame lies with Sakurai. How much, I do not have the answer, nor will I ever. But again, it is a point worth raising, because it effects everything, including the execution of the roster.

 

[TrainerLITTLER]

If a Smash game in development is better off without him than with him.

It really comes down to that.

I don't know the answer to that question, but it is a question worth asking.

Quite frankly, if a game could be better if the Video Game GOD (Miyamoto) wasn't involved (or as we call it, Paper Mario: Sticker Star), why couldn't that be the case for Sakurai, or really any video game developer=???

When Miyamoto did that, it shocked me. It made me think, "what if Sid Meier did that for Civ 6? Kojima with MGS V?" And so on.

The point is not every team and developer will gel, and that sometimes, franchise and employees have to go in opposite directions. It's just a fact of life.

While I am leaving out Game Arts' failures (I'm sure they were many), some of that blame lies with Sakurai. How much, I do not have the answer, nor will I ever. But again, it is a point worth raising, because it effects everything, including the execution of the roster.

Again, the creator is the only one who truly knows. For say a game developer was to add multiplayer to a 3D Zelda game, you would quickly toss Miyamoto for the new guy, because he's doing what you want. That's why you choose to not have Sakurai; he's not doing what you want; he's doing what's right for the series, but you can't see that.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

It's New Year's Eve and you guys are arguing about directors?

 

[TrainerLITTLER]

2014 just arrived and you guys are arguing about directors?

Sadly.

 

[Arcadenik]

My point exactly!

Actually, that's a perfect summarized statement of what I'm saying!

Thanks PLATINUM7!

Also, sucking doesn't mean they were overpowered or underpowered, it means their design or execution was bad. Mewtwo's design was bad (minimal psychic moves, despite never really attacking physically), and the execution of his awful hitboxes was awful.

Given that Mewtwo has really low normal defense stat in the Pokemon games, it is no wonder he sucked in a fighting game that consists of punching and kicking.

 

[Johnknight1]

You don't actually have any evidence for the things you claim, do you? Sakurai has calcific tendonitis in his right shoulder that caused multiple ruptures in the muscle. It causes severe pain even when he doesn't move it, and often wakes him up in the night.

This is taken from an interview of his.

Again, he overworks himself and thus treated his body, and mother nature does these things sometimes randomly. I didn't have any health issues, but when I was 7, my nerves in my neck got shot, which was caused because I was born with a spine that is longer than it should be (my brother had it worse, and needed half his spine removed and replaced by metal rods).

I wasn't in poor health, but I had a poor diet and sleep habits when I was 12, and my liver flat out stop working to a large degree.

These are just things in life you have to deal with, and learn from. No point in complaining about it; just beat it.

And you're proof that this is true?

My "sources". Trust me, my "sources" gave me a few bits of information pre-Brawl before just about everyone else knew, including a few stages (75M and Mario Bros. to be exact).

You stick around here long enough, and you might have people who know people who know people who know things. Trust me. When people have secrets, they like to tell them.

 

[TrainerLITTLER]

Also for those of you that say Melee had a better roster because HAL was in charge, think about this :
Melee had people like Dr. Mario, and Roy, a clone of Marth. HAL did better?

 

[PLATINUM7]

Also for those of you that say Melee had a better roster because HAL was in charge, think about this :
Melee had people like Dr. Mario, and Roy, a clone of Marth. HAL did better?

The amount of clones in Melee and just how cloned they were was a disappointment. Dr. Mario and Pichu only seemed to be there to fill up the roster.