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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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I don't really care who has the most reps myself. As long as each character can bring something good to the table.
This.

In the end, it matters if the character is unique enough to be creatively implemented into Smash. Fortunately, this does apply to a large group if characters. WFT proves that. But the character also should bring its representation of the series it belongs in and impact the Smash universe. Some characters have failed to do that but that group is very small.

WFT trainer represents Wii Fit and brings that franchise under the gold while being creative and unique. However, to add a Mario character soley to make it larger than Pokemon or Zelda just because its the mascot is unfair and ridiculous. I would extend this to Pokemon and Zelda as well.
 

shinhed-echi

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Sometimes I feel I'm the only one who likes Saki over Isa. Isa doesn't even have a support thread. :V

Sides, what killed Isa for me was that fighting scene where he fought chained to a seminude guy. Yaoi-bait pls.

I don't see why we can't have both. Isa would be a low-grav clone of Saki.
 

Thirdkoopa

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I could argue that Ganondorf and Bowser are the only antagonists we actually have on the roster, in terms of general context. Wario, Mewtwo, Wolf, King Dedede, and Meta Knight do have records of filling in an antagonist role, but normally those characters are neutral and constantly flip flop between good and bad.
Which is another thing. Many Nintendo villains do flip-flop, so yeah...

The only one that hasn't is really Ganondorf, unless someone wants to point me to a "Once upon a time, Ganondorf wanted to save Hyrule" story.

(I love how Kirby's Return to Dreamland 4 player is less lazy than all the NSMB games, lol)
 

shinhed-echi

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Well one thing I know Isa has over Saki is a definite recovery move. The orb-jet-pack thing on his back could work like ROB's UP+B kinda, except lighter.

Whoever the S&P rep is, I want him to have a B move where a crosshair appears on the screen, and with the joystick you move it around as he fires in said direction. Also, that you were still able to jump (with X/Y) and Roll-Dodge while firing.

Anything other than this wouldn't make the character justice, IMO. :)

---

Other villains who don't flip-flop:
-Ridley
-Medusa?
-Zoda
-K.Rool?
 

jaytalks

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My bad. I read the source wrong. I guess Melee had 5 Mario reps, although I'll always see Dr. Mario as representing his own series.

I like Starship Successor better, so I probably like Isa Jo more. But I remember Saki more because the game over screen (in which your partner says Saki when you die). They are pretty much exchangeable to me so Saki would be the one I would put in.
 

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Dr. Mario represented the Dr. Mario series. Like how Yoshi represents his own series.

Let me prove you wrong in the most OBVIOUS way I can, so that nobody else utters something so embarrassingly unbelievable . :facepalm:

Obvious Defense #1: Dr. Mario's Symbol


Obvious Defense # 2: Dr. Mario's Victory Theme

Obvious Defense # 3: Dr. Mario's Trophies are listed under the MARIO section.

Obvious Defense # 4: HE IS MARIO.

AND YOU USED YOSHI as an example...........well I might as well keep going.

Remember this?:


And This?:


AND THIS?:


I REST MY CASE! You are the THIRD person who said that! Can anybody in this thread believe what has just been said, has been said 3 times!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!
 

jaytalks

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Let me prove you wrong in the most OBVIOUS way I can, so that nobody else utters something so embarrassingly unbelievable . :facepalm:

Obvious Defense #1: Dr. Mario's Symbol


Obvious Defense # 2: Dr. Mario's Victory Theme

Obvious Defense # 3: Dr. Mario's Trophies are listed under the MARIO section.

Obvious Defense # 4: HE IS MARIO.

AND YOU USED YOSHI as an example...........well I might as well keep going.

Remember this?:


And This?:


AND THIS?:


I REST MY CASE! You are the THIRD person who said that! Can anybody in this thread believe what has just been said, has been said 3 times!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!
Settle down man. I already admitted I was wrong. It's not really that big a deal. If you haven't played Melee in a few years, you forget the icons and trophies. I don't remember everything from a 12 year old game. My bad. This thread is over 173 pages long. Not everyone has seen or read everything from the past 172 pages.
 

TheLastJinjo

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You shouldn't hang around DragonSniperNintendo if you honestly think people want Isa over Saki.
Nobody is going to care which one gets in. In fact I think Isa Jo is cooler. Like is anybody gonna be that sad if Matthew got in over Issac?
 

jaytalks

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Nobody is going to care which one gets in. In fact I think Isa Jo is cooler. Like is anybody gonna be that sad if Matthew got in over Issac?
You'd be surprised...
I think as a GS fan I would be just happy to play as one of its characters, and that Nintendo is acknowledging it as a major franchise. Because that would hopefully indicate a sequel. And maybe even some people would try out Matthew's tale in Dark Dawn, because it's actually pretty good. There's no major game mechanic or fighting style differences between the two, so it really comes down to personal preference who you want.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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Sometimes I feel I'm the only one who likes Saki over Isa. Isa doesn't even have a support thread. :V

Sides, what killed Isa for me was that fighting scene where he fought chained to a seminude guy. Yaoi-bait pls.

I don't see why we can't have both. Isa would be a low-grav clone of Saki.
I prefer Saki over Isa any day.
 
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You shouldn't hang around DragonSniperNintendo if you honestly think people want Isa over Saki.
I never said that people prefer Isa over Saki

I usually pick Isa as my choice because I believe he is the better choice.

The lead character of the original that appears in every game losing out to his son that starred in one game? Yeah, I'd be disappointed, even if it still is a win for Golden Sun.
When it comes to the Golden Sun rep, I don't care if it is Isaac or Matthew. They are both basically the same anyways.

The one where I am looking for a specific choice, although if they went the other way I wouldn't really care anyways, is Sin & Punishment. I want Isa but Saki would be ok anyways. I would be fine with it.

There's a difference in Isaac vs Matthew compared to Saki vs Isa Jo, at least, a slightly bigger one. The fact Isaac has appeared in all of the games where-as the S&P characters are equal is really saying something.
This, there is a difference between the two.
 

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The lead character of the original that appears in every game losing out to his son that starred in one game? Yeah, I'd be disappointed, even if it still is a win for Golden Sun.

Mathew vs Isaac I don't really care as much as Saki vs Isa.
Matthew looks so much like Teen Isaac it almost makes no difference to me. Of course for a matter of principles I'd love it if they went with Isaac since people have been asking for him more, but if they don't, well, you can't win them all. And Mathew is too much like Isaac anyway. As long as they represent Golden Sun, I'm fine.

On S&P, my wishlist priority would be as follows:

-Saki (main lead 1st game, Assist trophy in Brawl, small cutscene in sequel)
-Kachi (who from what I understand is pretty much Achi from the 1st game)
-Airan Jo (plays half the leading role in S&P 1, is mother to Isa, cameos in 2nd game)
-Isa

Wouldn't be mad if they go with Isa, just a tad disappointed. But it all boils down to how they represent his gameplay. That's what truly matters to me.
 

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There's a difference in Isaac vs Matthew compared to Saki vs Isa Jo, at least, a slightly bigger one. The fact Isaac has appeared in all of the games where-as the S&P characters are equal is really saying something.
He didn't appear in the DD as a playable character. He appears only in the game very briefly. Saki also made a brief appearance in his ruffian form in Star Successor, he's listed in the wiki credits. I mean the original Golden Sun game was just split into two anyway. S&P have only had two games. I don't think it's really that different if you use this argument.
 

TheLastJinjo

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There's a difference in Isaac vs Matthew compared to Saki vs Isa Jo, at least, a slightly bigger one. The fact Isaac has appeared in all of the games where-as the S&P characters are equal is really saying something.
Yet their appearance and abilities differ ever so not.

This brings me back to the whole K. Rool Bull****. Everybody is like "Well Dixie appeared in slightly more gaaaaaaymes and she was in Tropical Freeeeeeeze."

King K. Rool CLEARLY deserves it more than Dixie Kong.

There are situations where if the characters are both the same, they have to pick one, so why not the one who has taken the place of Saki & Issac. They have both stepped down in their career. Either way nobody is gonna really care which one it is. But, since there are only 2 Sin & Punishment games, Isa Jo is pretty much the obvious choice.

Can't keep picking characters based off the quantity of games they appeared in. Like Isa over Saki or *cough* DIXIE KONG OVER KING K. F***ING ROOL!

And that's why Matthew works. Although Issac appeared in all the games, Matthew is now the new protagonist. Meaning if another Golden Sun was made on 3DS, it would be Matthew and NOT Issac. So I don't necessarily add Matthew JUST because he's more recent.

I pick Matthew because he has taken Issac's place as the protagonist for the Golden Sun franchise and thus logically would take his place in SSB. Not because Dark Dawn is newer.

The lead character of the original that appears in every game losing out to his son that starred in one game? Yeah, I'd be disappointed, even if it still is a win for Golden Sun.
Well, you see Xenigma. That's WHY Matthew is more likely. Issac has retired and let his son take the lead as the main protagonist. if another Golden Sun game is made on 3DS Matthew will be the protagonist and NOT Issac. So it would only make sense that Matthew also takes his place in Super Smash Brothers.
 
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I want Isa over Saki way more than Matthew over Isaac.

The prior is different depending on who you choose (like someone mentioned before, Isa has a jetpack and that would add to his moveset).

The latter has little difference.
 

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Well, you see Xenigma. That's WHY Matthew is more likely. Issac has retired and let his son take the lead as the main protagonist. if another Golden Sun game is made on 3DS Matthew will be the protagonist and NOT Issac. So it would only make sense that Matthew also takes his place in Super Smash Brothers.
Because Isaac is retired. That's why he can't be in. Right, because Smash Bros. follows the canon of each series.

I guess Ganondorf shouldn't be a character on part of always being dead or sealed by the end of every game he's in. After all, that's canon.
 
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What Noah J. Linderer said about why he picks Matthew over Isaac is usually why I do the same, and why I also pick Isa over Saki.

Not only are they the recent hero, but they will most likely be the lead character in the next game of each series too. Especially Matthew.

Like he said, Isaac retired and Matthew is the lead character now. In a game that is also considered the start of the main story.

When it comes to Isa, if the story continues from the end of Star Successor then he is pretty much possible for the lead. More so than his dad, who is dead at that point (or at least considered dead). Isa's game also is the localized game as well (physical and in the same gen wise).
 

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Well, you see Xenigma. That's WHY Matthew is more likely. Issac has retired and let his son take the lead as the main protagonist. if another Golden Sun game is made on 3DS Matthew will be the protagonist and NOT Issac. So it would only make sense that Matthew also takes his place in Super Smash Brothers.
Except Isaac is still considered by most to be the face of the franchise and the first two games sold better, got better reviews, and are better liked by fans. This is also an instance where the roster being locked could hurt a character's chances: Camelot is busy making Mario Golf 3DS, not Golden Sun 4, so there is no game to promote. Not to say Matthew couldn't get in over Isaac, but his chances definitely aren't greater.
 

God Robert's Cousin

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What Noah J. Linderer said about why he picks Matthew over Isaac is usually why I do the same, and why I also pick Isa over Saki.

Not only are they the recent hero, but they will most likely be the lead character in the next game of each series too. Especially Matthew.

Like he said, Isaac retired and Matthew is the lead character now. In a game that is also considered the start of the main story.

When it comes to Isa, if the story continues from the end of Star Successor then he is pretty much possible for the lead. More so than his dad, who is dead at that point (or at least considered dead). Isa's game also is the localized game as well (physical and in the same gen wise).
First off, gotta say, I love the irony in that Noah wants Matthew to be playable under that logic, despite that he is also really pushing for Ninten to be playable, too.

Second off, if recentness takes priority over familiarity, wouldn't that mean Marth, Ness, and Olimar should all be excluded because there are more recent characters that take their place? Despite the heavy representation of their series overall that comes from just those three characters, you're saying that we should boot those three and keep Lucina, Lucas, and Alph in their places. That's a good way to make upset a lot of people, especially over Sakurai, who hates cutting veterans.

I understand it's besides the point in that we're talking about a new franchise entirely, but I'm saying that following the same basis as the aforementioned characters, it would make much more sense to have Isaac, the recurring protagonist, over Matthew, the *current* protagonist. After all, recentness is relevant only for a while. Familiarity and iconicness should always take priority when a character is selected, unless of course there is already a character in that series that covers that, point in case with Ness/Lucas and Marth/Ike.
 
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First off, gotta say, I love the irony in that Noah wants Matthew to be playable under that logic, despite that he is also really pushing for Ninten to be playable, too.

Second off, if recentness takes priority over familiarity, wouldn't that mean Marth, Ness, and Olimar should all be excluded because there are more recent characters that take their place? Despite the heavy representation of their series overall that comes from just those three characters, you're saying that we should boot those three and keep Lucina, Lucas, and Alph in their places. That's a good way to make upset a lot of people, especially over Sakurai, who hates cutting veterans.

I understand it's besides the point in that we're talking about a new franchise entirely, but I'm saying that following the same basis as the aforementioned characters, it would make much more sense to have Isaac, the recurring protagonist, over Matthew, the *current* protagonist. After all, recentness is relevant only for a while. Familiarity and iconicness should always take priority when a character is selected, unless of course there is already a character in that series that covers that, point in case with Ness/Lucas and Marth/Ike.
I would probably just say since they are from yet to be repped franchises, like you said.

They would get a character to get the series in Smash. It could easily be another Ninten vs Ness situation but for misc franchises.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Because Isaac is retired. That's why he can't be in. Right, because Smash Bros. follows the canon of each series.

I guess Ganondorf shouldn't be a character on part of always being dead or sealed by the end of every game he's in. After all, that's canon.
Way to come up with the worst and most unrelateable example possible. I see no point, nor do I see any understanding in you. I'm not even sure if what you just said has anything to do with the subject you responded to.

You take a villian who is commonly and traditionally defeated, and somehow compare that to a protagonist who will no longer be the main character of a fairly small series because a new protagonist was chosen. Talk about random. Are you sure you didn't accidentally respond to the wrong post? I fail to see you even thinking about what you posted.

First off, gotta say, I love the irony in that Noah wants Matthew to be playable under that logic, despite that he is also really pushing for Ninten to be playable, too.

Second off, if recentness takes priority over familiarity, wouldn't that mean Marth, Ness, and Olimar should all be excluded because there are more recent characters that take their place? Despite the heavy representation of their series overall that comes from just those three characters, you're saying that we should boot those three and keep Lucina, Lucas, and Alph in their places. That's a good way to make upset a lot of people, especially over Sakurai, who hates cutting veterans.

I understand it's besides the point in that we're talking about a new franchise entirely, but I'm saying that following the same basis as the aforementioned characters, it would make much more sense to have Isaac, the recurring protagonist, over Matthew, the *current* protagonist. After all, recentness is relevant only for a while. Familiarity and iconicness should always take priority when a character is selected, unless of course there is already a character in that series that covers that, point in case with Ness/Lucas and Marth/Ike.
Ugh, really!?!?:facepalm:

Difference: Fire Emblem is a WAY bigger franchise. Once again you have pathetically chosen another terrible example. Also you claim that what I said implies I have knowledge that Camelot is developing another Golden Sun title. A good illusion to make your "point" sound more reasonable is to take something off topic that is stupid and not even said by the person you are attacking and then point out why it is dumb, even though nobody ever said it. Please stay on topic.

But, so that I get back on topic
Fire Emblem does not have a main protagonist. It has SEVERAL main protagonists. Much like other games such as (Oh, yeah!) Earthbound! So you picked ANOTHER bad example! Earthbound as a whole does not have a main protagonist which MIGHT I REMIND YOU is why Lucas nearly replaced Ness TWICE. In fact had Earthbound 64 been completed and released, he would have successfully done so in Melee. Having Ninten, Ness, and Lucas works because there IS NO main protagonist. There are several main protagonists and thus it makes perfect sense to have more than one.

And Lucina replacing Marth? Someone who OBVIOUSLY isn't going to reappear frequently OR has the role of THE main character of the entire franchise let alone that particular game, is a really stupid thought.

Golden Sun UNLIKE FIRE EMBLEM (I still can't believe THAT was your defense.) Is a small series like Sin & Punishment where if a character takes the place of that Protagonist after only a couple games, you can expect it to stay that way. Not only has Marth been the protagonist in several SEPERATE Fire Emblem Games and not always in order of release, but he is STILL being used as the most famous character in the more famous franchise and can be expected to keep returning. You are comparing such a BIG game series to such a SMALL game series. And if you think about it, Alph COULD replace Olimar. But, of course I doubt you do think about it. You take the unexpected event of something happening and claim it to be stupid simply because being a bad speculator you don't expect or consider it. However Olimar is still in Pikmin 3 and is important story wise. He hasn't become retired because he is still fit to do his duty and is still continuing what he does. But, whether Alph will replace him is not for you to say. In fact Olimar could stay for other reasons, that doesn't mean reasons for him being replaced were irrelevant.

Next time don't compare a small and more obscure series to a clearly more popular and bigger series. Golden Sun is not a big series of games and thus nobody will really care if Matthew (The new protagonist who replaced Issac from now on.) is in SSB instead of him.

P.S. I never mentioned in my previous statements cutting ANYBODY. I was talking about characters getting in over other characters

DO YOU ALWAYS COME UP WITH SUCH TERRIBLE EXAMPLES!?!?!?!?!? You know what I love? You go rambling on into stuff that isn't even relatable to the point I was making? :facepalm:

And again I say: Comparing Matthew's situation to Ganondorf :??: :??: :??: :??: :??: :??: ................................................................................................ I have faith in your speculating no longer.
 

jaytalks

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Unfortunately Lip does not have enough popularity, potential, or requests for a playable appearance in Super Smash Brothers. Perhaps an Assist Trophy.
But she has a fan in the one guy who matters:
"Lip. How many people are actually familiar with her?
But personally, I think Panel De Pon is a great masterpiece.
If only the people who don't know her would give her a chance"
ref, middle of the page: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=15098105&postcount=144
I remember reading in early interviews that Sakurai wanted focus on retro characters. People always list Takamaru, but Lip's got a shot too.

With the Golden Sun and S&P, the rules may be different from franchises without representatives. The problem is there hasn't been a generational franchise created after the N64 generation to receive consecutive singular representation in Smash. Olimar is the closest, but we won't know the answer until Smash 4 is released. And even then, it would not be to certain since Pikmin 3 was released so late into Smash 4 development cycle. The Fire Emblem series is different since in its first appearance it got two representatives. It just cut one and replaced him with a more recent one. Recentness has yet to trump familiarity when a franchise only has one rep. They have so far extended it to two rather than cut first.

Sakurai hates cutting veterans, but the fact that he is talking about it means to he's pursuing it. You don't put yourself at the "brink of death" for something, and then not follow through.
 

TheLastJinjo

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But she has a fan in the one guy who matters:
"Lip. How many people are actually familiar with her?
But personally, I think Panel De Pon is a great masterpiece.
If only the people who don't know her would give her a chance"
ref, middle of the page: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=15098105&postcount=144
I remember reading in early interviews that Sakurai wanted focus on retro characters. People always list Takamaru, but Lip's got a shot too.

With the Golden Sun and S&P, the rules may be different from franchises without representatives. The problem is there hasn't been a generational franchise created after the N64 generation to receive consecutive singular representation in Smash. Olimar is the closest, but we won't know the answer until Smash 4 is released. And even then, it would not be to certain since Pikmin 3 was released so late into Smash 4 development cycle. The Fire Emblem series is different since in its first appearance it got two representatives. It just cut one and replaced him with a more recent one. Recentness has yet to trump familiarity when a franchise only has one rep. They have so far extended it to two rather than cut first.

Sakurai hates cutting veterans, but the fact that he is talking about it means to he's pursuing it. You don't put yourself at the "brink of death" for something, and then not follow through.
Once again this has nothing to do with recentness, nor does it have anything to do with deleting already existing reps.



1. This happens to be another R.O.B. / Mr Game & Watch
2. Wii Fit is very popular and not obscure at all.
3. She represents Nintendo WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than Lip ever did.
 

jaytalks

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Once again this has nothing to do with recentness, nor does it have anything to do with deleting already existing reps.





1. This happens to be another R.O.B. / Mr Game & Watch
2. Wii Fit is very popular and not obscure at all.
3. She represents Nintendo WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more than Lip ever did.
I'm saying they haven't added any single character from franchises post N64 that would be affected by a later generation coming out. Or at least we haven't seen it yet.

Edit: Lip would be a retro character add, rather than a WTF character add. WFT isn't really the same type of character as Lip.
 

3Bismyname

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Isa over Saki = i dont care. both are in the same amount of games and play the same exact role.

Matthew over Isaac= While Isaac may be the deffinitive protagonist of the series, Matthew is essentially just an expy of him anyways so i really dont see the big deal. combat wise and personality wise, there's virtually no difference. but if the option would be to have grown up Isaac thats who id choose. be good to have an RPG character who looks like a man for once.
 
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