Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Autumn ♫]

I believe this is the best way to include Generation V of pokemon, which has been the best generation of starters since the original. Generation V did produce B&W and B&W 2.

I thought gen 3 had the best starters.

 

[3Bismyname]

I thought gen 3 had the best starters.

gen 3 starters are probably second best to me. gen 1 being first obviously (Squitles my favorite pokemon). personally i think gen 5 has probably the worst of any starters. but thats just my opinion.

 

[jaytalks]

Sakurai did say that a child Link was important to him. So I think we are likely of seeing one, wether it's Toon Link, Young Link or Classic Link is up for debate.

And despite me supporting Anna as a new Fire Emblem newcomer, that doesn't mean that I support her because she's a woman since that's a very weak reasoning to support any female character in my opinion. I also support Lyn and Chrom too so there's that as well.

Just a clarification on my part. I also don't support female characters purely because their females. I support strong female protagonists because they generally make good heroes. I will probably never go to bat for Eirika because of her choices and how she's represented in her game, and at times I don't like Micaiah because she gets saved by Sothe in the first scene you see her if I remember correctly.

gen 3 starters are probably second best to me. gen 1 being first obviously (Squitles my favorite pokemon). personally i think gen 5 has probably the worst of any starters. but thats just my opinion.

Unfortunately, I don't like generation 3 because of mudkips. His status as ground type ruins him as a water type because then grass moves work super effective on him. Blaziken has been the fire starter final evolution since Charizard.
Generation V also has great pokemon in each of the corresponding levels (1, 2, 3). Oshawott, Servine, and Emboar are great pokemon that can fit into the Pokemon Trainer style and Smash style very well. Oshawott is the best water type since squirtle.

 

[3Bismyname]

Unfortunately, I don't like generation 3 because of mudkips. His status as ground type ruins him as a water type because then grass moves work super effective on him. Blaziken has been the fire starter final evolution since Charizard.
Generation V also has great pokemon in each of the corresponding levels (1, 2, 3). Oshawott, Servine, and Emboar are great pokemon that can fit into the Pokemon Trainer style and Smash style very well. Oshawott is the best water type since squirtle.

i respectfully disagree. Emboar looks dumb as hell, plus c'mon another fire/fighting type. as far as fire starters go he's the worst imo. and i hate Oshawotts design. his final evolution only barely makes up for it. the Snivy evolution line im pretty cool with and is the only one i use.

 

[FalKoopa]

Gen 3 was awesome because Grovyle.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Yeah Nana isn't a good reason to use. She uses the exact same moveset as Popo and has no different attributes whatsoever, so she isn't really her own character necessarily.

And that's why I don't like people saying "Oh, well there's always been more Poke'mon Characters." Because the fans kinda decide what they count as another character.

Predicted Roster:
View attachment 1119

Added on to my Roster are Starfy and Palutena. Starfy would be the character who appeals more to the Japanese audience and I believe he could have a unique enough playstyle to work. I'm seeing Kid Icarus get a lot of popularity, so Palutena could now earn a spot

I applaud you for adding Starfy. A lot of speculators almost intentionally overlook Starfy's extreme likeliness. This shows you know what you are doing.

But, I have a major problem. Sooooo, because Sakurai may have to cut characters, you're solution is to take a character that's already playable within one character and count it as an extra character? You are only wasting a slot that could be taken by a completely different character.

View attachment 1122

You need to get rid of Medusa and replace Krystal with Takamaru. Also Chrom is WAAY more unique than Lucina. He actually has some moves of his own where as Lucina is just Marth with Longer hair and a vagina and has no moves of her own. The only two Female characters that'll get in are Lyn or Eirika. If you want a replacement for Medusa, pick Paulatena. She is more requested and more popular. Medusa isn't a bad idea so I guess you could have her. I just suggest Palutena. It'd also be nice to see Matthew/Issac & Starfy.

And Toon Link replaced by Classic Link? NO!

Also I refitted my "too large by 5-10 character roster", but all realistic characters.

MUCH better than your other rosters..

But, Saki must be replaced with Isa Jo. There are only 2 Sin & Punishment games and Isa Jo is the new protagonist.

In MY opinion: get rid of Krystal. We have all the Starfox reps we need, plus 4 Starfox reps is excessive. And I think it's going to stay with all 3 being semi-clones so Krystal just doesn't fit in. She'd make a good assist trophy. I still believe Toon Link will be in. He's way too loved and it only makes perfect sense to have 2 Links. I don't think we are going to see Shadow Mario.

Also I think Pac-Man is even more unlikely than before. The only thing making him likely is that he was one of the first video game characters and is iconic (as an arcade character, not as he is now.) But, that does not AT ALL make him Smash Brothers material. Pac-Man being part of Namco is not a reason to put him in at all. Sakurai also stated the biggest reason he added Mega Man wasn't just that he is the most requested, but that because of all the powers he gets from defeating Dr. Wily's robots, he said that inspired him to make him a Smash Character. Even with the new Pac-Man games, he doesn't have very unique moveset potential or at least I don't think Sakurai would see his moves as a good idea for a Smash Bros Character. This doesn't DISPROVE him, but it makes him very much an unlikely character in my eyes. I see no reason not to agree.

Pac-Man is a good character to make guest appearances in certain games. But, in my opinion: Definitely not in Super Smash Bros. I even replaced him with Lucario under my "Other Predictions + Possibilites" section. This is one of those examples where I added a character just because everybody else did. But, there are some characters that almost every Smash fan has. Note of advice: That does not make them likely at all.

Gen 3 was awesome because Grovyle.

Uh, Blaziken, anybody?????

 

[jaytalks]

i respectfully disagree. Emboar looks dumb as hell, plus c'mon another fire/fighting type. as far as fire starters go he's the worst imo. and i hate Oshawotts design. his final evolution only barely makes up for it. the Snivy evolution line im pretty cool with and is the only one i use.

Oshawott's presence on the show what make me like the pokemon. And Samurott is just plain cool. I only saw a few episodes but he really stands out. Overall Generation V is the best overall. When the fire starter overall is the weakest design, I think that's actual a good thing considering Fire has been the best practically every other generation.

You need to get rid of Medusa and replace Krystal with Takamaru. Also Chrom is WAAY more unique than Lucina. He actually has some moves of his own where as Lucina is just Marth with Longer hair and a vagina and has no moves of her own. The only two Female characters that'll get in are Lyn or Eirika. If you want a replacement for Medusa, pick Paulatena. She is more requested and more popular. Medusa isn't a bad idea so I guess you could have her. I just suggest Palutena. It'd also be nice to see Matthew/Issac & Starfy.

Takamaru is on my roster underneath the Zekda series. If you played Awakening you'd know that Lucina fights nothing like Marth. Her style incorporates double handed wielding by default and more stabs. If anything, Chrom and Lucina fight more similarly to each other than other lords in the FE series. Medusa is to have more villains. Medusa is more unique and adds more than Palutena. I would like Palutena as well.

Isaac has been on my other predictions but I took him out for Takamaru. It becomes between him and Shulk when I make my prediction roster.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The more villain argument is just as bad as the more female argument.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Oshawott's presence on the show what make me like the pokemon. And Samurott is just plain cool. I only saw a few episodes but he really stands out. Overall Generation V is the best overall. When the fire starter overall is the weakest design, I think that's actual a good thing considering Fire has been the best practically every other generation.

Generation I & II are great. Everything else is ridiculously stupid. It's like the designers of the Pok'emon close their eyes, scribble on a piece of paper, and then they edit what they drew and make it the next Poke'mon. Nowadays it's like: "WHO'S THAT POK'EMON!?!? OH! IT'S FRENCH ICE CREAM CONE WITH A SOMBRERO!"

Only cool Pok'emon from the new generation is Lucario. And he's the BEST! (Except Gastly, Gengar, Raichu, and Drowzee.) Which are my favorites.

The more villain argument is just as bad as the more female argument.

I still think it's kind of important, but not if you use it to add really dumb characters.

 

[3Bismyname]

Oshawott's presence on the show what make me like the pokemon. And Samurott is just plain cool. I only saw a few episodes but he really stands out. Overall Generation V is the best overall. When the fire starter overall is the weakest design, I think that's actual a good thing considering Fire has been the best practically every other generation.
.

never watched the anime. guess thats y i still think he's an awful pokemon and the entire generation design wise is probably the worst in the series.

 

[allshort17]

I applaud you for adding Starfy. A lot of speculators almost intentionally overlook Starfy's extreme likeliness. This shows you know what you are doing.

But, I have a major problem. Sooooo, because Sakurai may have to cut characters, you're solution is to take a character that's already playable within one character and count it as an extra character? You are only wasting a slot that could be taken by a completely different character.


\

Uh, Blaziken, anybody?????

Sakurai already considers Brawl to have 39 unique fighters despite having 35 visible spots. Having ZSS as her own spot won't cut anyone out of the game, it just puts her upfront as a stand alone character. I personally want Sheik to be separated from Zelda and to give them both one more special move especially since Zelda's model and personally has kept progressing while Sheik stopped at OoT. She really has no ties to the new Zeldas. It would be a great way to visibly show two different eras of Zelda without having to add any more characters. However, I have no personal gripes with ZSS being hidden and Sheik paired with Zelde, it just seems somewhat extraneous.

I'm all up for Blaziken actually. If people still wanted a fighting type in the game, he'd actually be a good replacement for Lucario and could still keep a majority of his moves.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Generation I & II are great. Everything else is ridiculously stupid. It's like the designers of the Pok'emon close their eyes, scribble on a piece of paper, and then they edit what they drew and make it the next Poke'mon. Nowadays it's like: "WHO'S THAT POK'EMON!?!? OH! IT'S FRENCH ICE CREAM CONE WITH A SOMBRERO!"

Turn off the nostalgia goggles babe, you're looking like an idiot if your thinking the outdated Gen 1 and Gen II are somehow greatly superior, with exploitable bugs and flawed game designs crippling those games. Not to mention the really mediocre designs of a lot of the Pokemon.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Turn off the nostalgia goggles babe, you're looking like an idiot if your thinking the outdated Gen 1 and Gen II are somehow greatly superior, with exploitable bugs and flawed game designs crippling those games. Not to mention the really mediocre designs of a lot of the Pokemon.

That's why we think gen 3 is the best.

 

[Morbi]

The more villain argument is just as bad as the more female argument.

The problem with both arguments is that people assume that the villain only has that going for him. Or that the female only has her gender going for her. That is simply not true. Some females are important and worthy to be in the game just as some villains are important and worthy. Ridley, Black Shadow, Wolf, and K. Rool being 4 villains that are not only wanted just because they are villains. Krystal, Palutena, and Dixie/Tiny being 4 females that people want not necessarily based on gender.

Without the villains in each game the heroes wouldn't really be much. Bowser is just as essential to the Mario series as someone like Luigi. Wolf is just as essential to the Star Fox series as someone like Falco. I don't know much about F Zero, Black Shadow/Goroh seemed like important characters though. K. Rool hasn't really been relevant. But here most people don't care about relevancy (Impa). He is an iconic Donkey Kong villain. Donkey Kong is one of the biggest Nintendo franchises. Without him we wouldn't even have Mario.

The arguments are attenuated because people make the assumption that their alignment or gender are the ONLY things going for such characters. They are not. It is fallacious to say that Ridley is only wanted because he is a villain or people only want Palutena because she is a girl. Just my two cents.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I love Gen 1 Pokemon, and the starters are my favorite (screw Pikachu, no offense XD)

I totally get why almost everyone wants him to be replaced with other gens... If he doesn't come back, he was fun while he lasted. The only Nintendo newcomer I liked in Brawl. Though I eventuallly warmed up to ZSS because along the way, I became a Metroid fan.

 

[Autumn ♫]

I love Gen 1 Pokemon, and the starters are my favorite (screw Pikachu, no offense XD)

I totally get why almost everyone wants him to be replaced with other gens... If he doesn't come back, he was fun while he lasted. The only Nintendo newcomer I liked in Brawl. Though I eventuallly warmed up to ZSS because along the way, I became a Metroid fan.

If we are talking about the Pokemon Trainer, than yes, keep him the way he is.

 

[Morbi]

Yeah. I love Gen 1-3 Pokemon. That is why I really wish PKMN Trainer had Charizard (most popular Pokemon), Bayleef (pushed in the anime), and Mudkip (a meme). Especially seeing as he was supposed to represent a generic Pokemon trainer. If they wanted to push gen 1 they should have named him Red/Ash. I wont lie though. Nostalgia does cloud my judgement with Pokemon. I only decently like the 4th gen. I hate 5 and 6 is off to a bad start seeing as they butchered one of my favorite Pokemon.

Lucario being cut would slightly bother me. He was one of the only newcomers I liked as well. At the same time Mewtwo's return (not the movie) would be really cool.

 

[mimgrim]

Turn off the nostalgia goggles babe, you're looking like an idiot if your thinking the outdated Gen 1 and Gen II are somehow greatly superior, with exploitable bugs and flawed game designs crippling those games. Not to mention the really mediocre designs of a lot of the Pokemon.

It depends on how you are looking at the Gens. If you are looking at them from a gameplay point of view then ofc the newer Gens will be better due to better graphics and smoother gameplay. If you are looking at it from a Pokemon desing point then it is highly subjective and opionated, personally I think all Gens have their bad look pokemon and good looking pokemon and then the rest that falls in the middle. If you're looking at it from an anime point, Gen 1&2 obviously win as every anime after Gen 2 has been getting worse and worse with Gen 5 anime being an absolute joke. If you look at it from a Manga point of view, well they are all equal as the Pokemon manga is ten times better and tries to aim towards the more older crowd to an extent. So really it just depends on the points you are looking at the Poke Gens from.

 

[Autumn ♫]

It depends on how you are looking at the Gens. If you are looking at them from a gameplay point of view then ofc the newer Gens will be better due to better graphics and smoother gameplay. If you are looking at it from a Pokemon desing point then it is highly subjective and opionated, personally I think all Gens have their bad look pokemon and good looking pokemon and then the rest that falls in the middle. If you're looking at it from an anime point, Gen 1&2 obviously win as every anime after Gen 2 has been getting worse and worse with Gen 5 anime being an absolute joke. If you look at it from a Manga point of view, well they are all equal as the Pokemon manga is ten times better and tries to aim towards the more older crowd to an extent. So really it just depends on the points you are looking at the Poke Gens from.

I liked the 3rd gen anime though...
4th gen not so much.

 

[mimgrim]

I liked the 3rd gen anime though...
4th gen not so much.

3rd Gen was decent, but copared to Gen 1 and 2 of the anime... Well it was no where near as good. I also found Gen 4 decent enough but still rather meh. Gen 5.... I watched the first some episodes before I gave up on it, so much of a joke.

 

[3Bismyname]

i did like that for the 3rd gen they decided to not let Ash get all the starters in some bs way tho. helped mix up his team a little better

 

[Thirdkoopa]

The more villain argument is just as bad as the more female argument.

Habanero, not only for this but for what you said about Pokemon gens is awesome. Keep being awesome.

Also I'd say Villain argument is even worse, especially since Smash has a lot of villains already.

 

[jaytalks]

Another reason I like the generation V is because B&W was the best game since the original Gold and Silver. The storyline really jumped out at me. Now some may disagree, but it's all personal preference.

Sakurai uses different transformations when counting Brawl's roster because the amount of programming and design that has to go into making individual characters. That's why he always states that when talking about Brawl, because it would not represent the amount of work that his team did for the game without including different transformations.

Being a villain and a female are just one factor when it comes to a character. I include when I make predictions because I think it's factor Sakurai and developers consider when it comes to their characters and their criteria. I never advocate for character purely because they are female or villains. It's just one of many factors when it comes to characters.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I could argue that Ganondorf and Bowser are the only antagonists we actually have on the roster, in terms of general context. Wario, Mewtwo, Wolf, King Dedede, and Meta Knight do have records of filling in an antagonist role, but normally those characters are neutral and constantly flip flop between good and bad.

 

[MagnesD3]

Gen 2, Gen 1, Gen 3, Gen 5, Gen 4 for pokemon.

And that's why I don't like people saying "Oh, well there's always been more Poke'mon Characters." Because the fans kinda decide what they count as another character.


I applaud you for adding Starfy. A lot of speculators almost intentionally overlook Starfy's extreme likeliness. This shows you know what you are doing.

But, I have a major problem. Sooooo, because Sakurai may have to cut characters, you're solution is to take a character that's already playable within one character and count it as an extra character? You are only wasting a slot that could be taken by a completely different character.



You need to get rid of Medusa and replace Krystal with Takamaru. Also Chrom is WAAY more unique than Lucina. He actually has some moves of his own where as Lucina is just Marth with Longer hair and a vagina and has no moves of her own. The only two Female characters that'll get in are Lyn or Eirika. If you want a replacement for Medusa, pick Paulatena. She is more requested and more popular. Medusa isn't a bad idea so I guess you could have her. I just suggest Palutena. It'd also be nice to see Matthew/Issac & Starfy.

And Toon Link replaced by Classic Link? NO!



MUCH better than your other rosters..

But, Saki must be replaced with Isa Jo. There are only 2 Sin & Punishment games and Isa Jo is the new protagonist.

In MY opinion: get rid of Krystal. We have all the Starfox reps we need, plus 4 Starfox reps is excessive. And I think it's going to stay with all 3 being semi-clones so Krystal just doesn't fit in. She'd make a good assist trophy. I still believe Toon Link will be in. He's way too loved and it only makes perfect sense to have 2 Links. I don't think we are going to see Shadow Mario.

Also I think Pac-Man is even more unlikely than before. The only thing making him likely is that he was one of the first video game characters and is iconic (as an arcade character, not as he is now.) But, that does not AT ALL make him Smash Brothers material. Pac-Man being part of Namco is not a reason to put him in at all. Sakurai also stated the biggest reason he added Mega Man wasn't just that he is the most requested, but that because of all the powers he gets from defeating Dr. Wily's robots, he said that inspired him to make him a Smash Character. Even with the new Pac-Man games, he doesn't have very unique moveset potential or at least I don't think Sakurai would see his moves as a good idea for a Smash Bros Character. This doesn't DISPROVE him, but it makes him very much an unlikely character in my eyes. I see no reason not to agree.

Pac-Man is a good character to make guest appearances in certain games. But, in my opinion: Definitely not in Super Smash Bros. I even replaced him with Lucario under my "Other Predictions + Possibilites" section. This is one of those examples where I added a character just because everybody else did. But, there are some characters that almost every Smash fan has. Note of advice: That does not make them likely at all.



Uh, Blaziken, anybody?????

I put saki over isa due to him being more iconic/popular than isa, (although isa can be a costum), I think krystal should be in for falco but alot of people love falco so as long as he is decloned I will include him, Toon Link might be in or a different link instead of impa we will see (but id prefer impa), Pac man makes the most since due to the namco developing thing and the rumor (and I know about the article, I think he only said that to put people off track), also shadow mario will make bowser jr.s moveset alot more interesting by using many paintbrush techniques, its what makes jr. unique to me.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

The main idea people have for a Gen III Trainer is Mudkip/Grovyle/Blaziken.
Personally, if the Grovyle from PMD2 made it in, it should change to Treecko/Marshtomp/Blaziken.

I'd like the idea, mainly because I fell in love with the Treecko line back in 2004 and had him/it as my starter, and I find Blaziken pretty cool as well.
My main worry is that Blaziken might be viewed as a Captain Falcon semi-clone. (Blaze Punch and Blaze Kick)

Not exactly sure which starter Pokemon a second Trainer character would use, though. It's a tough choice, seeing as there's gens 2,3,4,5,and now 6.

 

[Opossum]

And that's why I don't like people saying "Oh, well there's always been more Poke'mon Characters." Because the fans kinda decide what they count as another character.

The thing is though, Noah, it's not the fans that think that "Pokemon has more characters than Mario and Zelda." It's Sakurai who thinks that, as he has been on-record saying that Brawl has a roster of 39 characters, not 35.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Gen 2, Gen 1, Gen 3, Gen 5, Gen 4 for pokemon.



I put saki over isa due to him being more iconic/popular than isa, (although isa can be a costum), I think krystal should be in for falco but alot of people love falco so as long as he is decloned I will include him, Toon Link might be in or a different link instead of impa we will see (but id prefer impa), Pac man makes the most since due to the namco developing thing and the rumor (and I know about the article, I think he only said that to put people off track), also shadow mario will make bowser jr.s moveset alot more interesting by using many paintbrush techniques, its what makes jr. unique to me.

Yeah, as long as Shadow Mario's moves are solely based on the Paint Brush it works. The reason I don't see it is because It's hard to imagine another Mario Character transforming into Mario, but he's not Mario and doesn't have his moves. It just hasn't happened in SSB YET. I disagree that Pac-Man makes the MOST sense, especially because of Namco not getting speciak treatment (yeah, I know your read that and still disagree) but, that was kind of the biggest thing keeping him as a nominee. Krystal will never replace Falco, cloned or decloned. I think it's unfair to say Falco is a clone just because of his Forward B move and that his Smash attacks are similar to Fox. You see Ness was originally going to be replaced by Lucas, but Sakurai's only reason for keeping Ness was that people liked the character. So you see Sakurai keeps people because of who the character is and not what their moves are. Falco is way too popular and essentail to the representation of Starfox to be even CONSIDERED for removal. And to think he would be replaced by KRYSTAL. She is not a more popular character than Falco. It's all about WHO they are.

Another reason I like the generation V is because B&W was the best game since the original Gold and Silver. The storyline really jumped out at me. Now some may disagree, but it's all personal preference.

I actually bought Black & White for my birthday because I wanted to get back into Poke'mon after years of abandoning it due to stupid Pok'emon. I just COULDN'T get into it. I tried so hard, I even gave a name to my Tepig, but I just couldn't. No matter how hard I tried I literally just couldn't stay focused on it and ended up selling it. I have NO plans to buy X & Y either.

3rd Gen was decent, but copared to Gen 1 and 2 of the anime... Well it was no where near as good. I also found Gen 4 decent enough but still rather meh. Gen 5.... I watched the first some episodes before I gave up on it, so much of a joke.

I remember watching Gen 3 on DVD when I was kid.

Gen 3....I remember Gen3......sweet, sweet Gen 3...........I ALWAYS HATED IT!

You could show me a silhouett of any Gen 1-2 Poke'mon and I could immediately guess it. Now it's "Who's that Poke'mon???"
and I'm like "I DON'T F****ING KNOW!!!"

Turn off the nostalgia goggles babe, you're looking like an idiot if your thinking the outdated Gen 1 and Gen II are somehow greatly superior, with exploitable bugs and flawed game designs crippling those games. Not to mention the really mediocre designs of a lot of the Pokemon.

Whoa, getting a little carried away here. You know lot's of people don't like Gen 3-6.

In fact I didn't even mention the GAME. I just hated the Poke'mon. Which thus left literally NO motivation or interest to play the game past the first 2 towns. I wouldn't rant on games I don't play, but loving the Poke'mon is kinda what motivates you to collect them.

I'm just a hard-gen kinda guy. I don't know if it's so much nostalgia as much as it is just not being as creative as before. I mean don't get me wrong there is TONS of cool Poke'mon like Sable Eye, Tepig, Shroomish, and Lucario. And even GEN 1 had some stupid Poke'mon like Jynx & Mr. Mime. But, some things just can't be original or as good forever.

The thing is though, Noah, it's not the fans that think that "Pokemon has more characters than Mario and Zelda." It's Sakurai who thinks that, as he has been on-record saying that Brawl has a roster of 39 characters, not 35.

39 characters playable in the game TOTAL, but not the actual select screen roster.

 

[jaytalks]

The thing is though, Noah, it's not the fans that think that "Pokemon has more characters than Mario and Zelda." It's Sakurai who thinks that, as he has been on-record saying that Brawl has a roster of 39 characters, not 35.

I think that's to be more fair to the people that designed the game. They really designed and programmed 39 characters, so it make sense that he corrects people. The transformations are clearly for creative reasons, so to argue if Zelda and Pokemon have more characters than Mario is kind of pointless. It's more like the top franchises get four, and four is the limit. The franchises are Mario, Pokemon and Zelda. We'll see if the limit changes next game.

 

[Opossum]

I think that's to be more fair to the people that designed the game. They really designed and programmed 39 characters, so it make sense that he corrects people. The transformations are clearly for creative reasons, so to argue if Zelda and Pokemon have more characters than Mario is kind of pointless. It's more like the top franchises get four, and four is the limit. The franchises are Mario, Pokemon and Zelda. We'll see if the limit changes next game.

But Dr. Mario already broke the "limit" of four in Melee...

 

[Curious Villager]

But Dr. Mario already broke the "limit" of four in Melee...

Not to mention if the Forbidden Seven thing is anything to go by, they were planning for at least 5 as well for the Mario, Zelda and Pokemon franchises.

 

[Deleted member]

I could argue that Ganondorf and Bowser are the only antagonists we actually have on the roster, in terms of general context. Wario, Mewtwo, Wolf, King Dedede, and Meta Knight do have records of filling in an antagonist role, but normally those characters are neutral and constantly flip flop between good and bad.

I'd argue that Ganondorf would be the only true antagonist.

Bowser, while constantly kidnapping Peach, has been on the side of good or neutral on multiple occasions.
Either because another villain beat him to the punch or because it's a round of golf/tennis/kart racing/etc.

He's even selflessly saved Mario once in a cutscene for Mario Super Sluggers, where he protects Mario from the Wa Bros.' Bullet Bill launcher.

 

[Autumn ♫]

The thing is though, Noah, it's not the fans that think that "Pokemon has more characters than Mario and Zelda." It's Sakurai who thinks that, as he has been on-record saying that Brawl has a roster of 39 characters, not 35.

I think balance wise he counts it as 35 as Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon have always had the most characters.

 

[Opossum]

I think balance wise he counts it as 35 as Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon have always had the most characters.

Do you have a source for this?

 

[jaytalks]

But Dr. Mario already broke the "limit" of four in Melee...

Dr. Mario represented the Dr. Mario series. Like how Yoshi represents his own series.
And the forbidden 7 stuff I don't really factor in. As I've said before, it's data that we are not supposed to have seen. We also don't know if there is other data that had taken out completely, or if any of the forbidden 7 "slots" were then occupied by other characters. Like say Roy was originally planned, but they scrapped him and then they put in Ike. There is no evidence that the forbidden 7 were meant to be all playable along with the real 39.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

And that's why I don't like people saying "Oh, well there's always been more Poke'mon Characters." Because the fans kinda decide what they count as another character.

See, that isn't true though. Sakurai himself considers the roster a 39 character roster. It isn't a matter of what fans think. It's what the big man thinks. So that is the truth.

I don't really care who has the most reps myself. As long as each character can bring something good to the table.

 

[Opossum]

Dr. Mario represented the Dr. Mario series. Like how Yoshi represents his own series.
And the forbidden 7 stuff I don't really factor in. As I've said before, it's data that we are not supposed to have seen. We also don't know if there is other data that had taken out completely, or if any of the forbidden 7 "slots" were then occupied by other characters. Like say Roy was originally planned, but they scrapped him and then they put in Ike. There is no evidence that the forbidden 7 were meant to be all playable along with the real 39.

So why does he have the Mario series icon, while Yoshi has his egg?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Dr. Mario did not represent the Dr. Mario series. He had the Mushroom icon. That's like saying Luigi represents Luigi's Mansion even though he has the Mushroom Icon.

 

[jaytalks]

So why does he have the Mario series icon, while Yoshi has his egg?

Sakurai has stated that he meant Dr. Mario to represent the Puzzle games in Nintendo.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Do you have a source for this?

Notice I said I think.
In 64 Mario and Pokemon each had 2 characters, being the 2 highest selling franchises at the time.
In Melee, Mario had 5 being the largest franchise and Zelda and Pokemon had 4, being the 2nd and 3rd largest series.
In Brawl, Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon each had 4 characters being the big 3.
So, I believe that balance wise he looks at the number of slots, rather than the number of character models.