Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[?????????????]

Maybe Skyward Sword's Impa left a really huge impression on Sakurai.

I thought Groose was MORE impressive.

 

[kikaru]

It has, but the deal is, just cause there's no Phantom in the second pic, doesn't mean it's not part of her move. On the contrary, this implies that Zelda has indeed had a number of changes, and that photo could either a) have the Phantom out of frame, or b) be the start up animation for the Phantom summon.

From my perspective Zelda's most iconic attacks are going to be Din's Fire, Nayru's Love, Farore's Wind, The Light Arrow, and her transformation in which I think Brawl was spot on in her Specials from a thematic standpoint though that's simply an opinion. I do believe however that Impa can bring in a unique moveset without encroaching on Sheik's, why replace an already unique moveset with another unique moveset? That notion seems silly to me.

And furthermore I think dropping Sheik also takes away from Zelda's character as her gimmick was to be able to transform into another character, this added a fun element that only Pokemon Trainer emulated. Removing that ability in my opinion would make Zelda more bland and boring of a character by not being able to alter movesets in the midst of a fight.

 

[Deleted member]

If Toon Link was picked over Impa, wouldn't that bode well for Toon Zelda being picked over Impa as well?

What?

Why?

Epona's more recurring and important than Impa. As is Dark Link/Shadow Link. And Tingle, if you count his spinoff franchise.
Don't delude yourself otherwise.

Sources say otherwise:

http://zeldawiki.org/Impa
http://zeldawiki.org/Epona

I don't see how Link's steed is more importnant to the story than a character that's been around since the original game, and has influenced the story in numerous ways.

Also, I count 6 games, to 4 games on Epona. Not to mention Impa is one of the sacred sages in OoT, and is referenced as such in WW.

As for Shadow Link, a clone of Link... literally.


I'm sorry man, but Impa is a more important character than you like to give credit for. I guess the Impa war from before I started posting must have burned most of you out, but you can't argue facts.

Anyone who argues that Sheik is more important than Impa is in denial, and anyone who tries to argue that Epona, or Shadow Link are more important are delusional. I can see Tingle taking over as a quirky spinoff character, but in the context of proninence, I think Impa takes the spot right after the Triforce 3. After her I'd say Tingle, and Vaati coming in. Then after that it's just popularity, where I'd say Skull Kid takes the lead, and then everyone else.

 

[Gunla]

Did the Galaxy Stage ever reference or mention Rosalina at all? I mean, we all expected a Galaxy stage anyway.

There was a quote that referenced "a figure from Mario's past may appear at any second". It didn't refer to Rosalina at first, but that's the likely guess.

 

[Deleted member]

I believe toon link was chosen to represent the toon side of the zelda series. If that's true, we don't really need zelda to do that too.

Toon Link was chosen to represent the "child" Link, aka, the original incarnation of Link.

That would be terrible. I like Sheik and I don't want to lose any Nintendo Brawl veterans, especially not through replacements.

I see no reason to assume Sheik is out, though. I could see Zelda and Sheik being separated, though.

I don't see why Sheik would stay if separated. And, do you really think we'll get away without any cuts? I doubt it.

 

[ShichibukaiJimbe]

Zelda is with her TP design again, that almost confirms Sheik. Thinking it will be cut is like being certain that ZS Samus will be cutted too, which probably won't happen

Sakurai is revealing one character per time, and it seems he's counting transformations separatedly in the site

 

[Deleted member]

I don't see why Sheik would stay if separated. And, do you really think we'll get away without any cuts? I doubt it.

Sheik has been in Smash for two games. If she was going to be removed, it was going to be in Brawl.

I also think it is plausible to expect no cuts (outside of Snake).

 

[Autumn ♫]

Sheik has been in Smash for two games. If she was going to be removed, it was going to be in Brawl.

I also think it is plausible to expect no cuts (outside of Snake).

Why are you expecting Snake to get cut?

 

[Deleted member]

@Manly:
It's a matter of logic. Sakurai clearly didn't give a rat's *** about "relevancy" in Brawl's time or he would have gotten rid of Sheik then instead of have a TP style design drafted up by the Zelda team during TP's development. And wouldn't have planned on a WW style Sheik either.

Why would he all of a sudden care now?
Especially when Sheik has more promotion now than during Brawl's development?
Even more so when he uses the TP style once more rather than make the switch to SS style, in which Impa replacing Sheik would have a stronger argument?

Those are strong points I won't deny that, but I think Sakurai's design philosophy for this game comes into question as well.

Brawl was meant to be more of an 'ultimate' Smash, or... a content heavy continuation of Melee (not speaking of mechanics here). It didn't try to deviate much in terms of how the characters played, nor did it try much to explore new ideas in characters except for a few (Olimar mainly). None of the Melee vets got any serious make-overs in terms of playstyle (barring Mario's FLUDD - but nothing the level of Bower). Furthermore, the balancing for that game was done by Sakurai.

So... why didn't Sakurai replace Sheik THEN? Simple. Sheer Laziness. Think of how many semi-clone newcomers we got for Brawl, and think of how many were called for...

This time around though, it's been confirmed that Sakurai is going over the vets and changing a few things, we saw that happen with Bowser, in addition, there is a serious gameplay focus going on with what newcomers make the roster, and he seems more keen on exploring new concepts, as all 4 newcomers have unique ideas thrown in. In addition, the fact that Namco has been called in to balance the game, it's clear they would be able to see the design flaws in Zelda's character. Them telling Sakurai to toss out or redo the transform gimmick seems like something they would do.

Thus, the table is set for some changes, and for Impa to potentially take over a rather redundant slot. Especially since her relevance in the franchise has been highlighted thanks to SS.

I think that looking at Sakurai's previous approach to developing the game is flawed, as clearly, his approach to this game is much different than what it was for Brawl.

From my perspective Zelda's most iconic attacks are going to be Din's Fire, Nayru's Love, Farore's Wind, The Light Arrow, and her transformation in which I think Brawl was spot on in her Specials from a thematic standpoint though that's simply an opinion. I do believe however that Impa can bring in a unique moveset without encroaching on Sheik's, why replace an already unique moveset with another unique moveset? That notion seems silly to me.

And furthermore I think dropping Sheik also takes away from Zelda's character as her gimmick was to be able to transform into another character, this added a fun element that only Pokemon Trainer emulated. Removing that ability in my opinion would make Zelda more bland and boring of a character by not being able to alter movesets in the midst of a fight.

The problem lies in balance, the transform gimmick simply didn't work. The two didn't work in tandem like should for such a character, and instead removed a valuable move slot from both characters. I think we might see the transform gimmick come back, but just not in Zelda anymore, I think Lucario or Mewtwo might be more fitting for such a move. Maybe even Ridley.

 

[LordJackal]

Is it just me, or does Zelda's pose look completely unrelated to what the Phantom's doing? It just doesn't look like she's controlling it or anything.

 

[Deleted member]

Sheik has been in Smash for two games. If she was going to be removed, it was going to be in Brawl.

I also think it is plausible to expect no cuts (outside of Snake).

Jiggs was also a vet for two games, but she almost didn't make the roster for Brawl. I don't think being a veteran seals a character's spot in future rosters. Once again, why would Brawl be the most optimal time to remove Sheik? There are a number of factors as to why things wouldn't play out like that, and the lazy design that went into many character's movesets (thanks to SSE), it's no surprise we saw no changes in Zelda's flawed moveset.

Snake is a topic I'd rather not touch, lol, I want to believe ;_;.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sakurai doesn't care about relevancy. After all, Spirit Tracks is quite an old game by now

 

[SchAlternate]

If SS have any influence on Zelda's design, it may be Sheik having a design similar to that of Impa's.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Sakurai doesn't care about relevancy. After all, Spirit Tracks is quite an old game by now

Wouldn't the same apply to Sheik then?

 

[Bowserlick]

If Zelda was controlling the Phantom, wouldn't the steel golem have red eyes.

I think it is an AT.

Sakurai likes his mechanics. I don't think he is going to scrap his first transformation character.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Wouldn't the same apply to Sheik then?

Yes but I was joking. Phantom was clearly added for gameplay reasons. And even if not, it's still better character representation than Sheik.

 

[MagnesD3]

I think it will be extremely funny if sakurai cuts sheik for impa (it makes sense to me since one is relevant and the other isnt and sakurai wont want to waste a good moveset.) I personally hope it happens to see the aftermath (and because I hate the transformation gimmick as its useless).

 

[Sharkarat]

If Zelda was controlling the Phantom, wouldn't the steel golem have red eyes.

It may not have eyes, but it's Pink. It also make sense for it do not have eyes since she's not inside it.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

wow, can say that i'm surprised that Zelda actually got revealed, oh well he's somewhat predictable I guess
Zelda also looks very gorgeous in the game, makes me more curious about good old ganondorf. . .
and nothing too eye-catching about her pictures, . . . well except for that phantom in her picture . . .
all and all it looks well, and now I wait for the one I am interested in being revealed.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Phantom >>> Sheik.

It's so funny seeing Zelda's most overrated alterego being replaced by the only Zelda who has ever been playable

 

[Bowserlick]

Maybe she is not inside it, because it is an AT.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Maybe she is not inside it, because it is an AT.

Why would sakurai show AT's back to back? and AT's are never shown on a character page.

Maybe its a move.

 

[Louie G.]

I feel like the darknut PLUS transformation can make Zelda a great character.
Sheik has always been better than Zelda, but if you put Zelda out, send out a darknut, and transform into Sheik, Shelda becomes much more useful.

 

[Sharkarat]

Maybe she is not inside it, because it is an AT.

Then why is it Pink?

 

[Louie G.]

Then, why is it Pink?

Do people think that Zelda is inside that?
Zelda is obviously commanding it. It's like Luma I suppose, only you probably can't control it.

 

[MagnesD3]

wow, can say that i'm surprised that Zelda actually got revealed, oh well he's somewhat predictable I guess
Zelda also looks very gorgeous in the game, makes me more curious about good old ganondorf. . .
and nothing too eye-catching about her pictures, . . . well except for that phantom in her picture . . .
all and all it looks well, and now I wait for the one I am interested in being revealed.
View attachment 5449

I cant wait to see my main come home, the King's return shall be glorious!

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think the armor is part of Zelda's moveset. It kinda shows from the screenshot that she is using the move. Maybe it will be explained more tomorrow.

 

[SchAlternate]

inb4 Toon Zelda Assist Trophy.

 

[CalumG]

It's more than likely an assist trophy. Why is this even up for debate? Sakurai is notorious for ambiguously positioned photo's such as this one. For that matter, he's probably playing to the fact that people are uncertain about Sheik (just like how he did with Brawl).

Have people just erased the Dojo from their minds or something?

Reposted for relevance. I love people's optimism but it's not the first time Sakurai has released a picture like this, Zelda makes the same pose in another photo and Zelda makes similar poses in Melee and Brawl. I wouldn't put it past Zelda having a moveset revamp, but nothing so far really suggests it.

inb4 somebody sees Ridley in the clouds

 

[LordJackal]

Why would sakurai show AT's back to back? and AT's are never shown on a character page.

Maybe its a move.

Characters are never introduced on a stage that hasn't been seen yet. Until one was. There's a first for everything.

 

[BluePikmin11]

inb4 Toon Zelda Assist Trophy.

That would seem like a very weird decision to make, considering the fact she was planned for Brawl. So maybe Dr. Mario could be an AT also.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Characters are never introduced on a stage that hasn't been seen yet. Until one was. There's a first for everything.

I don't think this is a first. This isn't the brawl dojo, he's not gonna show 2 AT's back to back imo.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Reposted for relevance. I love people's optimism but it's not the first time Sakurai has released a picture like this, Zelda makes the same pose in another photo and Zelda makes similar poses in Melee and Brawl. I wouldn't put it past Zelda having a moveset revamp, but nothing so far really suggests it.

inb4 somebody sees Ridley in the clouds

Yet, why would an AT be posted in the actaul character website pictures. This isn't one of those daily pics, where Sakurai shows anything, this is for showing Zelda on the website.

 

[Deleted member]

Jiggs was also a vet for two games, but she almost didn't make the roster for Brawl. I don't think being a veteran seals a character's spot in future rosters. Once again, why would Brawl be the most optimal time to remove Sheik? There are a number of factors as to why things wouldn't play out like that, and the lazy design that went into many character's movesets (thanks to SSE), it's no surprise we saw no changes in Zelda's flawed moveset.

Snake is a topic I'd rather not touch, lol, I want to believe ;_;.

Almost being the key word here. And Sheik isn't exactly the type of character that would be cut for time constraints. If Sakurai wants Sheik in, Sheik will end up being in the final game since she would be a high priority character.

Brawl would have been the most optimal time considering that Sheik at that time, was a one shot character that had not appeared in years. If Sakurai cared about recency as much as most people think, Sheik would have been axed and we would have just gotten Zelda. But because of Sheik being extremely popular and a loved character in her one appearance, she stayed.

 

[Sharkarat]

Reposted for relevance. I love people's optimism but it's not the first time Sakurai has released a picture like this

I'm curious, what picture(s) are you refering to?

 

[N3ON]

If this was a regular, character neutral Phantom AT, it probably wouldn't be pinkish. That's only when Zelda possesses it.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Ok, let's talk about Ike, how he would look in the game if confirmed? Would he use bright colors like most of the cast so far? Would he use his PoR or RD design? These are some good questions to ask, without making it a corn and rye debate.

The main tthing I just want out of the way is Ike having slightly more speed, because at the moment his sluggish nature makes him too telegraphed. Thankfully it's not as severe as Ganondorf because of the large range of his Ragnell compensating for the low speed somewhat.

 

[CalumG]

Yet, why would an AT be posted in the actaul character website pictures. This isn't one of those daily pics, where Sakurai shows anything, this is for showing Zelda on the website.

Because it makes for an interesting picture? Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason to Sakurai's photography - he just likes to make interesting little scenarios. Sakurai making a humorous picture that shows Zelda 'commanding' a Phantom doesn't seem much different to the multiple photos he's posted (on character pages no less) that imply a humorous relationship between Link and Peach.

This picture is on Luigi's page:

Is it illustrating part of Luigi's moveset? No. Sakurai posts pictures he thinks are funny, entertaining or that best show off the characters' personality.

 

[LordJackal]

Yet, why would an AT be posted in the actaul character website pictures. This isn't one of those daily pics, where Sakurai shows anything, this is for showing Zelda on the website.

But if it's part of the moveset, why isn't it in any other screens? If it's just there to be one move, that's really underwhelming. Rosalina was introduced with Luma as part of her moveset and Luma was everywhere. The only evidence I see for the Phantom being part of the moveset is that one picture, where Zelda looks disconnected from it and the pose is repeated in another screen with no Phantom...at least 70% sure it's not part of her moveset.

 

[Deleted member]

Almost being the key word here. And Sheik isn't exactly the type of character that would be cut for time constraints. If Sakurai wants Sheik in, Sheik will end up being in the final game since she would be a high priority character.

Brawl would have been the most optimal time considering that Sheik at that time, was a one shot character that had not appeared in years. If Sakurai cared about recency as much as most people think, Sheik would have been axed and we would have just gotten Zelda. But because of Sheik being extremely popular and a loved character in her one appearance, she stayed.

You seem to be convinced on what Sakurai wants, something none of us have really ever been able to predict, especially not with this roster.

If this was a regular, character neutral Phantom AT, it probably wouldn't be pinkish. That's only when Zelda possesses it.

I would also add that since you don't see the eyes, that could mean something, perhaps she's possessing it externally? Hmm?




Anyway, suppose we get 13 newcomers total.

We've got 4 in so far, leaving us 9 spots.

So:
-WFT
-Megaman
-Villager
-Rosalina

then, most likelies (imo):
-Palutena
-Ridley
-Takamaru
-Shulk
-Mewtwo
-Impa

the final 3?

What do you think?

-for DK, Cranky, Dixie, or K.Rool? I'm thinking Cranky for some reason.
-think FE will get anyone? If so, who?
-any ideas for the final spot?