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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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Moon Monkey

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My King K. Rool senses are tingling.
King K. is a lot more likely than a Dixie and Diddy team, especially will IC giving the 3DS issues.

Moveset-wise there is very litle Dixie can do that Diddy can't, where as King K. Rool has a moveset pool that is bigger than DK.

So when it comes to moveset and character variety (which Sakurai is focusing on for this installment) King K. Rool is overall a better choice.
 

MagnesD3

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So I updated my roster again. There are 50 slots, which is what I think is a fairly reasonable amount. If anyone has any questions, concerns, and/or criticisms, I will gladly defend my positions on the size/character choices.
This is a very realistic roster, the only things that I think will be different are that the mario series will receive a new rep and the zelda series will. (toon link could get cut because of this)
 

Hyper Luigi

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Anybody else think Pokemon Trainer might be cut instead of Lucario? He does require a lot more data. Or perhaps only 1 of his Pokemon will return by themselves. Or 2 to simplify him to Sheik level.
 

Arcadenik

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If Sakurai looks at the Nintendo cartoons, then I think it would be really awesome if Captain N actually gets in Smash. :awesome:

It would be so cool to see Pit, Mega Man, Simon Belmont, and Captain N together in Smash.
 

TheTuninator

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Anybody else think Pokemon Trainer might be cut instead of Lucario? He does require a lot more data. Or perhaps only 1 of his Pokemon will return by themselves. Or 2 to simplify him to Sheik level.
Pokemon Trainer generated as much hype as Snake and Sonic, if not more, when he was revealed for Brawl. They'd be pretty nuts to cut him.

Sakurai has said that the 3DS version will not limit the WiiU version, so I doubt that they would gut Pokemon Trainer in such a fashion.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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Has anyone thought that the final boss of Tropical Freeze could be Viking K Rool? I guess it would be weird having him in without his Kremling Krew though.
 

BKupa666

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That's another wrinkle to the whole Tropical Freeze discussion...Dixie is suddenly a lock because of ten seconds of trailer footage, but how quickly does the backpedaling occur if the Viking K. Rool scenario plays out? Not that it's all that probable, but it's a pleasant hypothetical scenario.
 

Arcadenik

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That's another wrinkle to the whole Tropical Freeze discussion...Dixie is suddenly a lock because of ten seconds of trailer footage, but how quickly does the backpedaling occur if the Viking K. Rool scenario plays out? Not that it's all that probable, but it's a pleasant hypothetical scenario.
Welcome to the Smash Stock Market.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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I think both K Rool and Dixie should be in Smash Bros, they both deserve to be in, but I don't think it's very likely. When it comes to likeliness on who would be added, I see it as a 50/50.
 

3Bismyname

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i personally have always been 50/50 when it came to Dixie or K Rool. i've always felt both characters have earned a spot in their own right. only reason i ever leaned more towards K Rool is cause we could use not only another villain but a heavy weight. but i personally wouldnt mind Dixie in the slightest and in some aspects would prefer her. i just really do not want the Diddy/Dixie combo.
 
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I guess the part about Pac-man (or any Namco character) not being planned and the part about those characters supposedly appearing at E3 slipped your mind. Look, even you cannot exactly deny those parts.
Sakurai said that Namco doesn't get priority just because they are helping with the game.
He did not say there wasn't a character planned. (He didn't say there was one planned either)

And the source the leaker was given initially stated that they were all going to be revealed at E3 barring impromptu change.
Until it becomes actually clear that even one of the three characters will not be included, the claim is not false. At the same time, it isn't true until the three are revealed either.
It's downright ******** to think it was nothing but a "lucky guess". At worst, it was the leaker was given false information on top of real information.


So no, the parts didn't slip my mind. Especially the first one, since it's nothing more than yet another misinterpretation of what Sakurai said.
 

Hyper Luigi

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Pokemon Trainer generated as much hype as Snake and Sonic, if not more, when he was revealed for Brawl. They'd be pretty nuts to cut him.

Sakurai has said that the 3DS version will not limit the WiiU version, so I doubt that they would gut Pokemon Trainer in such a fashion.
So then only Lucario is questionable and not so much because MewTwo might return but more so because he's not as relevant or iconic now? I don't think he'd lose to Zoroark at any rate.

Pichu and Lucario just lucked out, first gen is just more desired in the long run.

On other topics I'll support K. Rool over Dixie but don't mind if either do or do not make it in.
 

BKupa666

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I don't want to discuss K. Rool too much more here, since his day on Rate Their Chances is coming up soon, but I do feel it's worth pointing out that, for everyone who doesn't agree with the concept of 'series reps,' it's perfectly sensible to include both K. Rool and Dixie on a roster, since both have credentials ranging from decent to very strong, are 'last remaining all-stars,' and are more universally agreed upon as newcomers than those of other large series.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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As far as Namco goes, anyone else find it strange that they weren't included down at the bottom with Capcom, Sora, and Nintendo?

Something is fishy here.
 
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Anybody else think Pokemon Trainer might be cut instead of Lucario? He does require a lot more data. Or perhaps only 1 of his Pokemon will return by themselves. Or 2 to simplify him to Sheik level.
If one of Brawl's newcomers stay I could see it being Lucario.

Probably because we would/could get a new trainer.
 

Hyper Luigi

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K. Rool and Dixie deserve it more than Bowser Jr., Toad, Waluigi, and any more Zelda, Star Fox and Pokemon reps besides maybe MewTwo. But I do want more franchises to get reps.
 

Swamp Sensei

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As far as Namco goes, anyone else find it strange that they weren't included down at the bottom with Capcom, Sora, and Nintendo?

Something is fishy here.
It is rather odd.

Then again. Were F-Zero GX and Star Fox Assualt initially shown with Sega and Namco as developers?
 

Scoliosis Jones

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It is rather odd.

Then again. Were F-Zero GX and Star Fox Assualt initially shown with Sega and Namco as developers?
Good question. All I mean is that it's basically common knowledge that Namco is working on it. So if there isn't any reason to not have them there, then why aren't they there? I'm not saying there are issues, but maybe they are waiting to reveal something is all. Who knows?
 

FlareHabanero

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Namco is there because the development team behind Tekken and Soul Calibur is helping with the gameplay elements, the company is not involved to negotiate with any characters. It's pretty logical.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Namco is there because the development team behind Tekken and Soul Calibur is helping with the gameplay elements, the company is not involved to negotiate with any characters. It's pretty logical.
But they are contributing to the game, and therefore should be given credit along with the other groups involved. The fact that they aren't there makes no sense. It's not about the characters. It's just their contribution in general.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Good question. All I mean is that it's basically common knowledge that Namco is working on it. So if there isn't any reason to not have them there, then why aren't they there? I'm not saying there are issues, but maybe they are waiting to reveal something is all. Who knows?
Apparently. Star Fox Assault had no mention of Namco in the E3 trailer.

F-Zero GX had Sega's logo right next to Nintendo though. Could mean anything really.
 

TheTuninator

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Namco is there because the development team behind Tekken and Soul Calibur is helping with the gameplay elements, the company is not involved to negotiate with any characters. It's pretty logical.
Yeah, this exactly.

It's downright ******** to think it was nothing but a "lucky guess". At worst, it was the leaker was given false information on top of real information.
At worst, the leaker is deliberately bull****ting using real information as validation.

Additionally, it certainly could have been a guess. The attendant circumstances combine to make a legitimate leak the more likely explanation, but to rule out the possibility of a guess entirely is just silly.

But they are contributing to the game, and therefore should be given credit along with the other groups involved. The fact that they aren't there makes no sense. It's not about the characters. It's just their contribution in general.
If the various Nintendo studios that are no doubt consulted at times for help developing the game are not credited, why should Namco be? I'm sure that Intelligent Systems has lent personnel even in passing to aid with the development of FE characters, but they don't get their logo on trailers.
 

FlareHabanero

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But they are contributing to the game, and therefore should be given credit along with the other groups involved. The fact that they aren't there makes no sense. It's not about the characters. It's just their contribution in general.
The company Sora Ltd. needs outside parties in order to properly develop games, and guess what Namco Bandai was chosen because of the companies experience with fighting games. The guys at Namco are not there to hog the spotlight like greedy little swines.

It's not complicated.
 

Swamp Sensei

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The company Sora Ltd. needs outside parties in order to properly develop games, and guess what Namco Bandai was chosen because of the companies experience with fighting games. They are not there to hog the spotlight like greedy little swines.

It's not complicated.
Still. Their logo should appear somewhere. It's not glory hogging. It''s just giving credit when its due.

Besides, he wasn't arguing why they were brought in. We all know why. He was asking why the logo didn't appear anywhere?
 

Scoliosis Jones

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The company Sora Ltd. needs outside parties in order to properly develop games, and guess what Namco Bandai was chosen because of the companies experience with fighting games. They are not there to hog the spotlight like greedy little swines.

It's not complicated.
Is there really a need to be so rude? Is it so wrong for me to be wondering about something? I'm not quite understanding the hostility. I didn't even give the idea that that was why Namco was there in the first place.

Onto a different topic, I am definitely thinking we will see at least 45 characters in SSB4, give or take one or two. It just seems like a solid number overall. Not too many, but not too little. What do you guys think?
 

TheTuninator

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I'll be the first to admit that I do not possess a fine understanding of the intricacies of business law, but Namco personnel developing a game under the umbrella of Nintendo seems to be an entirely different beast from Namco co-developing a game with Project Sora. If Namco just released certain personnel to Nintendo's employ for the duration, would they necessarily require credit?

Contrast that with, say, a Namco rep appearing, where Namco certainly would be given a logo as one of their characters appears in the trailer, making the rights issue very clear.

I am certain that we'll see at least 45 reps (not counting transforming characters) in SSB4. Sakurai's added at least 10 new slots to every game so far, and has the largest team yet backing him. No reason to slow down now.
 

TheLastJinjo

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But the problem is that you're criticizing a roster based on artwork choice. You act like Zelda MUST be from Twilight Princess because of how Link looks. Does he look hyper realistic to you? No? Then he isn't from Twilight Princess.
Just because the tunic is based off of the design from Twilight Princess doesn't mean jack squat.



And yes, why DOES it matter Noah? It's not like a new character or anything, if you're concerned about game cannon Smash Brothers has destroyed game cannon in the franchise too many times to count already (This includes TP Zelda turning into Sheik).

Nobody cares if Zelda looks like she's from SS, TP, OoT, or LTTP. Sure, there might be a preference for a certain design, but nothing that won't cause people to not buy the game (Like the lack of a character or something).
You act like this is a matter of preference. It's a matter of logic. This isn't what Zelda we want in SSB4 it's what Zelda we are going to get in SSB4. I don't give a rats *** if it's the Zelda from the cartoon series. Whatever design either of us prefer has literally nothing to do with this.

Looking Hyper Realistic also has nothing to do with it. That one simple feature does not de-confirm him. Might I remind you ALL characters in Brawl had a hyper realistic look. To restate what I've said a million times. He has voice clips, from Brawl, the facial features are different from Skyward Sword, The clothing matches that of Brawl (Not SS) and there is a clip of him in front of Hyrule Castle. That's all clear logic leading to the assumption that Zelda will be the same too. It doesn't matter which Zelda we want.

There is a difference between characters we want, and characters that will appear.

Must this debate go into a complete circle. I tell you she won't be in it, you beg to differ, I tell you why she won't be in it, and then someone else comes and says "why not?".
 
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It will be a mixed Zelda roster I am sure.

Zelda will have a Twilight Princess esque costume but with Skyward Sword colors (and probably somewhat of a look in the face).

Ganondorf will have a Skyward Sword look to his Twilight Princess self. Think a bit of Demise in Ganondorf.

Ghirahim will take a bit of a darker tone with the Twilight Princess fused with his Skyward Sword. A scarier, more menacing Ghirahim.

Impa would have a darker tone to her Skyward Sword self too, probably looking a little older too.

Something like that.
 

Xiivi

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[collapse=hypothetical future thing]Something to remember about the WiiU/3DS leaks and future SSB5 leaks...

First it's probably good to recap all the way back to the dismay when both melee leaked and brawl leaked. Summaries of those leaks can be found here:
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...brawl-roster-does-get-leaked-on-topic.134204/
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/chronobounds-thoughts-on-the-brawl-roster-very-long-read.139579/

Now that Smash 5 is on the way and roster predictions are flying around with people arguing who's definitely in and who has absolutely zero chance, it's probably a good idea to look back on when the roster for WiiU/3DS leaked. The first leaks for the WiiU/3DS games came right before the trailers shown at E3. However, even then it wasn't the leak that got people most upset.

Nearly immediately after the trailers confirming Villager and Mega Man were out, all of the hype involving the characters was cut short with the reveal of Wii Fit Trainer. Instantly there was outrage. Many convinced themselves that she was just an assist trophy when she was first seen, but the trailer confirmed that she would indeed be playable. Thankfully her announcement was early when the roster only had a few characters confirmed. People had time to get used to her, as there were only Villager and Mega Man as newcomers other than her. This allowed for people to really look at her, and she felt at home rather quick. Some convinced themselves that her inclusion meant that there would be an abundance of characters and that cuts wouldn't be something to worry about.

However, the reveal of these three newcomers happened to reveal a possible leak. This leak involved a prediction confirming those three characters alongside Mii, Pac-Man, and Little Mac. Some clung to the rumours, but without the other three newcomers being revealed at E3 as the prediction stated, it quickly became the majority opinion to dismiss the leak. There was a lot of distaste of the Mii; after all Villager was already confirmed and certainly the two wouldn't be too different; humanoid characters using various items as moves. Many were also convinced that Pac-Man would not make the cut due to a comment of Sakurai's involving Mega Man being a special case as well as Namco characters not getting 'special treatment'.

Other controversial comments revolved around when Sakurai mentioned that there might not be enough time for all smash veterans to return and that the focus would be on unique movesets. Instantly many began to predict their cuts and it was always the 'clones' who were targeted. Any character that could vaguely be considered a clone was targeted: Toon Link, Ike, Wolf, Falco, Lucario (it was heavily assumed that Mewtwo would return thus rendering him a clone), Lucas, and even Ganondorf were on the chopping block for some. However others adopted the theory that instead cuts were not confirmed yet and that the comments referred to characters such as Roy, Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link not being able to come back.

Fast forward to the week before the first character was revealed on the new SmashBros website. A random poster said that Yoshi would be revealed in the next week, and that Ridley was not in the game, that there were a whopping three Links, and that one of the original 12 would be cut. The SmashBros website had not been regularly updating at the time, with Sakurai only posting pictures without any new information. Needless to say once Yoshi was revealed on the site a week later as promised, the fire had been lit. Instantly people were postulating who would be cut out of Luigi, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, and Ness. The big debate was between Ness and Jigglypuff. Others took it as nothing more than a lucky guess, the thought that there would be three Links seemed inconceivable to many: Toon Link was more likely to be cut than there be three Links! And Ridley deconfirmed already? The heartbreak from Brawl was already too much for people to handle. Along with the other leak, which remained unpopular, this was not shaping up to be the roster players had been hoping for, similar to the case of Melee and Brawl.

Eventually, the roster did leak, albeit without any prophecies to back itself up with as with the prior two leaks. A picture of the cast written out in Japanese began to float around the internet. The roster coincided with the first two leaks. It was another leak that was easy to dismiss: No new Fire Emblem rep? No new rep for Kid Icarus? These series were practically guaranteed to get a newcomer! Falco of all characters getting cut; while Wolf stayed even? Not to mention the lack of retro characters; which Sakurai had been on record mentioning he'd like to include more of them. Similar to how many would not believe Brawl's roster due to lack of females when Sakurai had said he was interested in more female characters; the same trope was found in regards to retro characters. Instead others clung with a more popular roster with characters such as Takamaru, Mach Rider, Dillon, Isaac, and Ridley.

Time would begin to prove the demon roster true however. Screenshots began to surface of the character select screen and a low quality gameplay video of two Miis in battle helped to drive the point home. Many still refused to believe it, but once their hands were on the game all of their worst fears were confirmed. People kicked and screamed and cursed Sakurai's name for giving yet another disappointing roster to them. Still, others gave the roster a chance. Those who played were delighted to see their thoughts of Fox/Wolf, Link/Toon Link/Young Link, Bowser/Bowser Jr., Mewtwo/Lucario, Ness/Lucas, etc... being clones were incorrect. While many were upset that someone with as an original moveset as Jigglypuff could be cut over clones, they found our that the closest to a clone there was in the game was between Mario and Luigi. Sakurai's comments about building from scratch were true, with all characters having surprisingly unique movesets and very diverse playstyles. Eventually players got used to the new roster, and many began to love it; including the Mii which as we all know has been at the top of the tier list since the first release.

[/collapse]
 

TheTuninator

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Peach and Zelda are probably the two veterans I want to see the most at this point. Not only because I main them, but because we can (maybe) put to rest the debates and anticipation over Toad as well as what Zelda will look like. Hopefully we see them soon (we probably won't).
 

3Bismyname

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Peach and Zelda are probably the two veterans I want to see the most at this point. Not only because I main them, but because we can (maybe) put to rest the debates and anticipation over Toad as well as what Zelda will look like. Hopefully we see them soon (we probably won't).
awesome someone else is a Peach main lol
 

TheTuninator

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[collapse=hypothetical future thing]Something to remember about the WiiU/3DS leaks and future SSB5 leaks...

First it's probably good to recap all the way back to the dismay when both melee leaked and brawl leaked. Summaries of those leaks can be found here:
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...brawl-roster-does-get-leaked-on-topic.134204/
http://www.smashboards.com/threads/chronobounds-thoughts-on-the-brawl-roster-very-long-read.139579/

Now that Smash 5 is on the way and roster predictions are flying around with people arguing who's definitely in and who has absolutely zero chance, it's probably a good idea to look back on when the roster for WiiU/3DS leaked. The first leaks for the WiiU/3DS games came right before the trailers shown at E3. However, even then it wasn't the leak that got people most upset.

Nearly immediately after the trailers confirming Villager and Mega Man were out, all of the hype involving the characters was cut short with the reveal of Wii Fit Trainer. Instantly there was outrage. Many convinced themselves that she was just an assist trophy when she was first seen, but the trailer confirmed that she would indeed be playable. Thankfully her announcement was early when the roster only had a few characters confirmed. People had time to get used to her, as there were only Villager and Mega Man as newcomers other than her. This allowed for people to really look at her, and she felt at home rather quick. Some convinced themselves that her inclusion meant that there would be an abundance of characters and that cuts wouldn't be something to worry about.

However, the reveal of these three newcomers happened to reveal a possible leak. This leak involved a prediction confirming those three characters alongside Mii, Pac-Man, and Little Mac. Some clung to the rumours, but without the other three newcomers being revealed at E3 as the prediction stated, it quickly became the majority opinion to dismiss the leak. There was a lot of distaste of the Mii; after all Villager was already confirmed and certainly the two wouldn't be too different; humanoid characters using various items as moves. Many were also convinced that Pac-Man would not make the cut due to a comment of Sakurai's involving Mega Man being a special case as well as Namco characters not getting 'special treatment'.

Other controversial comments revolved around when Sakurai mentioned that there might not be enough time for all smash veterans to return and that the focus would be on unique movesets. Instantly many began to predict their cuts and it was always the 'clones' who were targeted. Any character that could vaguely be considered a clone was targeted: Toon Link, Ike, Wolf, Falco, Lucario (it was heavily assumed that Mewtwo would return thus rendering him a clone), Lucas, and even Ganondorf were on the chopping block for some. However others adopted the theory that instead cuts were not confirmed yet and that the comments referred to characters such as Roy, Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link not being able to come back.

Fast forward to the week before the first character was revealed on the new SmashBros website. A random poster said that Yoshi would be revealed in the next week, and that Ridley was not in the game, that there were a whopping three Links, and that one of the original 12 would be cut. The SmashBros website had not been regularly updating at the time, with Sakurai only posting pictures without any new information. Needless to say once Yoshi was revealed on the site a week later as promised, the fire had been lit. Instantly people were postulating who would be cut out of Luigi, Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, and Ness. The big debate was between Ness and Jigglypuff. Others took it as nothing more than a lucky guess, the thought that there would be three Links seemed inconceivable to many: Toon Link was more likely to be cut than there be three Links! And Ridley deconfirmed already? The heartbreak from Brawl was already too much for people to handle. Along with the other leak, which remained unpopular, this was not shaping up to be the roster players had been hoping for, similar to the case of Melee and Brawl.

Eventually, the roster did leak, albeit without any prophecies to back itself up with as with the prior two leaks. A picture of the cast written out in Japanese began to float around the internet. The roster coincided with the first two leaks. It was another leak that was easy to dismiss: No new Fire Emblem rep? No new rep for Kid Icarus? These series were practically guaranteed to get a newcomer! Falco of all characters getting cut; while Wolf stayed even? Not to mention the lack of retro characters; which Sakurai had been on record mentioning he'd like to include more of them. Similar to how many would not believe Brawl's roster due to lack of females when Sakurai had said he was interested in more female characters; the same trope was found in regards to retro characters. Instead others clung with a more popular roster with characters such as Takamaru, Mach Rider, Dillon, Isaac, and Ridley.

Time would begin to prove the demon roster true however. Screenshots began to surface of the character select screen and a low quality gameplay video of two Miis in battle helped to drive the point home. Many still refused to believe it, but once their hands were on the game all of their worst fears were confirmed. People kicked and screamed and cursed Sakurai's name for giving yet another disappointing roster to them. Still, others gave the roster a chance. Those who played were delighted to see their thoughts of Fox/Wolf, Link/Toon Link/Young Link, Bowser/Bowser Jr., Mewtwo/Lucario, Ness/Lucas, etc... being clones were incorrect. While many were upset that someone with as an original moveset as Jigglypuff could be cut over clones, they found our that the closest to a clone there was in the game was between Mario and Luigi. Sakurai's comments about building from scratch were true, with all characters having surprisingly unique movesets and very diverse playstyles. Eventually players got used to the new roster, and many began to love it; including the Mii which as we all know has been at the top of the tier list since the first release.

[/collapse]

Excellent points. I expect a few things out of the coming months: I won't get everything I want, I will probably be disappointed with some of the upcoming picks (here's looking at you, Mii) and I will greatly enjoy the final roster as soon as I get a chance to sit down and play around with it.

That said, on the subject of your actual proposed roster, if Sakurai gives me an AW rep he can cut or nerf into oblivion literally every other character I play for all I care. Hell, he could dress Peach up as Skyward Sword Zelda and I won't even be mad.

Overall, it's a roster I could definitely see happening and would enjoy playing. Only parts that are even mildly objectionable on terms of probability are 8 Pokemon reps and 3 Links, and all those could plausibly happen.
 
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My current roster so far:



I do have other characters (Andy, Dillon, Micaiah, Aeron, Krystal, K. Rool, etc) on hold as possible choices.
 

TheLastJinjo

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My current roster so far:



I do have other characters (Andy, Dillon, Micaiah, Aeron, Krystal, K. Rool, etc) on hold as possible choices.
I like the addition of Matthew over Issac. My roster has that too.

1. You have 2 FE characters from the same installment. If you have Robin you might as well not have Chrom. Or better yet Chrom & Ike.
2. What reason could you have for Toon Ganondorf? What's wrong with Normal Ganondorf unless it's an excuse to declone him
3. If Snake get's replaced by a Third-Party rep I think it should be Bomberman. But, that's just my opinion.
4. Who is Isa? I think you should replace Isa with K. Rool
 
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