Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[BluePikmin11]

Doesn't Dr. Mario represents his own series? I think it's still 4 Mario reps even in Melee. Dr. Mario have been suggested, but because of Diddy Kong and Wario for Mario spinoffs, there may not have been anymore spots for Dr. Mario to be in the final suggested 35 character roster.

 

[Opossum]

Not in Melee. He had the Mushroom icon. He was definitely a fifth Mario character. Just in all, there's no "4 rep limit."

 

[TheLastJinjo]

1st of all the Red Hero is 2nd party to Nintendo, not 3rd party
2nd We don't have TP Link, we have the mixture of all the modern Link's combined with the most noticability going to OoT, SS, and TP.

The voice clips, gloves, and sheild strap position of Link in SSB4 are the same as Brawl which is clearly a depiction of Twilight Princess, And if Link is a mixture of all the Modern Links, then that would confirm we would not have Skyward Zelda, but a mixture of all the Modern Zeldas. That is the point of having Twilight designs because the are a mixture of the modern Zelda games where as the Zelda in his roster is a depiction of Skyward Sword Alone and Ganondorf's Skyward depiction wouldn't even exist.

 

[TheCreator]

Why do you guys even care? Link looks the way he does, awesome, and that's how it is. Next topic pls

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not in Melee. He had the Mushroom icon. He was definitely a fifth Mario character. Just in all, there's no "4 rep limit."

That logically makes no sense. Dr. Mario was hardly a part of the general Super Mario franchise, I think it's a spinoff and that Sakurai made a mistake to put the Mushroom icon instead.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Doesn't Dr. Mario represents his own series? I think it's still 4 Mario reps even in Melee. Dr. Mario have been suggested, but because of Diddy Kong and Wario for Mario spinoffs, there may not have been anymore spots for Dr. Mario to be in the final suggested 35 character roster.

Doc has the Mario series icon. So no. He was not considered his own series in Melee.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Not counting Poke'mon

Not in Melee. He had the Mushroom icon. He was definitely a fifth Mario character. Just in all, there's no "4 rep limit."

There is no limit for how many reps from a franchise can be in the game. However there is for the roster. That's just an excuse to have 4 Mario characters displayed on the roster and 5 or 6 Pok'emon characters displayed or to just have as many as you want for whatever franchise you pick.

Whether you count Poke'mon Trainer as 1 character that has 3 within him is up to the player. Ice Climber only has 1 rep and that's the Ice Climbers. Nana doesn't technically count regardless that you can play as her, because it's still Ice Climbers. Poke'mon Trainer is one character because he commands the Poke'mon's attacks and is shown on the actual roster as just Pok'emon Trainer just like Zelda is depicted as just Zelda. Sheik is still Zelda, and Zelda is Sheik. Samus & Zero Suit Samus are the same person. Now Young Link and Dr. Mario are also the same person but that doesn't count because the characters can be chosen seperately meaning Mario & Dr. Mario don't count as 1 character.

So I believe it makes sense to have 5 Mario characters. Saying that is unnecessary is hilarious. Mario is Nintendo' Mascot and probably the most famous game series to ever exist.

 

[Autumn ♫]

The voice clips, gloves, and sheild strap position of Link in SSB4 are the same as Brawl which is clearly a depiction of Twilight Princess, And if Link is a mixture of all the Modern Links, then that would confirm we would not have Skyward Zelda, but a mixture of all the Modern Zeldas. That is the point of having Twilight designs because the are a mixture of the modern Zelda games where as the Zelda in his roster is a depiction of Skyward Sword Alone and Ganondorf's Skyward depiction wouldn't even exist.

I'm pretty sure that Skyward Zelda is closer to all the modern Zelda's than TP Zelda. Also, Shy heik was never in TP but they had a TP version of Sheik. Also, aren't all Link's left-handed, unless played on the Wii? Then, I don't think that gloves and what side straps are on really matters.

Anyways, let's get onto a different subject anyways. I'm getting tired of these Link-Zelda debates.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

That logically makes no sense. Dr. Mario was hardly a part of the general Super Mario franchise, I think it's a spinoff and that Sakurai made a mistake to put the Mushroom icon instead.

I'm sorry, but I am way too tempted to poke fun at this.

Perhaps Ike wasn't supposed be in Brawl. I wanted Roy to be in Brawl so it MUST have been a mistake. I mean Sakurai the creator of SSB couldn't possibly be smart enough to notice that Dr. Mario's Icon is a Mushroom and not a pill. Sakurai never even intended to call it Super Smash Bros. IT WAS JUST A MISTAKE.

If you have a Beta Icon of the Pill symbol that was suppose to be Dr. Mario's icon, please post it. Or perhaps the statement from Sakurai where he said "Dr. Mario wasn't suppose to have a Mushroom Icon, I made a mistake in programming that NOBODY noticed."

You even went as far to say that "logically makes no sense". O_O............. You know what logically makes sense. Dr. Mario is a mario character, he is also Mario, Dr. Mario is a mario game and if that's not enough:

ICON:

CASE DISMISSED.

 

[EddyBearr]

Look, I'm sorry if I snapped a bit. I've had a bit of a rough day.

That being said, I think we should drop this here. The argument's pretty pointless at this point, and I feel a lot of it could have been misunderstanding on both sides, so I'll just drop it here.[/quote]

It'll probably get picked up at a later point, but I think we can agree that we made this argument get pretty absurd and nasty.

I do feel bad as well. I was thinking a little bit ago "wow, I was going way too far." So sorry about that, and there's no stigma.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not counting Poke'mon


There is no limit for how many reps from a franchise can be in the game. However there is for the roster. That's just an excuse to have 4 Mario characters displayed on the roster and 5 or 6 Pok'emon characters displayed or to just have as many as you want for whatever franchise you pick.

Whether you count Poke'mon Trainer as 1 character that has 3 within him is up to the player. Ice Climber only has 1 rep and that's the Ice Climbers. Nana doesn't technically count regardless that you can play as her, because it's still Ice Climbers. Poke'mon Trainer is one character because he commands the Poke'mon's attacks and is shown on the actual roster as just Pok'emon Trainer just like Zelda is depicted as just Zelda. Sheik is still Zelda, and Zelda is Sheik. Samus & Zero Suit Samus are the same person. Now Young Link and Dr. Mario are also the same person but that doesn't count because the characters can be chosen seperately meaning Mario & Dr. Mario don't count as 1 character.

So I believe it makes sense to have 5 Mario characters. Saying that is unnecessary is hilarious. Mario is Nintendo' Mascot and probably the most famous game series to ever exist.

But when you reach the limit (50) You leave out some really good etc. Nintendo reps.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm pretty sure that Skyward Zelda is closer to all the modern Zelda's than TP Zelda. Also, Shy heik was never in TP but they had a TP version of Sheik. Also, aren't all Link's left-handed, unless played on the Wii? Then, I don't think that gloves and what side straps are on really matters.

Anyways, let's get onto a different subject anyways. I'm getting tired of these Link-Zelda debates.

As much as I seriously want to. You just said that

This:

Is more similar to this:

Than this is :

I'm sorry, but you have to take more into consideration besides Hair Color.

But, I don't think ANY one wants to continue this conversation so let's just leave it at that.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

So maybe the Zelda roster will all be based off a mixture of Skyward Sword and the HD Tech Demo.

We have seen it in Link, and will probably see it in Zelda and Ganondorf. Possibly even Ghirahim and Impa if they are in.

 

[Opossum]

So I updated my roster again. There are 50 slots, which is what I think is a fairly reasonable amount. If anyone has any questions, concerns, and/or criticisms, I will gladly defend my positions on the size/character choices.

 

[Autumn ♫]

So I updated my roster again. There are 50 slots, which is what I think is a fairly reasonable amount. If anyone has any questions, concerns, and/or criticisms, I will gladly defend my positions on the size/character choices.

I agree with most of this. The only thing I disagree with is that Pokemon has more characters than Mario and Zelda.

 

[Deleted member]

A value judgement on 7 Pokemon reps is difficult to make in the absence of knowledge regarding the representation of other franchises. That said, with so many under-represented or completely unrepresented Nintendo franchises out there, to give any franchise 7 characters feels somewhat excessive. Of course, Sakurai could still juggle everything effectively enough to give us a massive amount of Pokemon reps without hurting roster diversity in other areas.

I've said this before, but I really don't think that any franchise needs more than 3, maybe 4 reps tops depending. Nintendo has so many IPs available that there's no need to pile characters on to the most popular ones when characters from unknown or barely known IPs have proven to be unique, well-received and popular.

When it comes to unrepresented franchises, we're already going to get a lot, especially if the leak about Pac-Man, Mii and Little Mac turns out to be true, giving us six characters from new franchise. Then take into account a retro rep (Takamaru/Mach Rider) and a misc. series rep or two (Shulk, Isaac, Starfy and Saki being most likely) and that gives us a total of eight or nine characters from unrepresented franchises. This is two to three more than what we got in Brawl.

Assuming we get a roster in the early fifties (transformation included), we could keep everyone from Brawl, add Roy/Chrom, Mewtwo, Dixie Kong/King K. Rool, Ridley and Palutena from existing series and it would still be the same expansion that Brawl got.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So I updated my roster again. There are 50 slots, which is what I think is a fairly reasonable amount. If anyone has any questions, concerns, and/or criticisms, I will gladly defend my positions on the size/character choices.

I think from the point on of DKCR, K. Rool might not be a good choice, because DKC has gone a new direction where there are new types of enemies,I don't think K. Rool would be a good choice if Nintendo were to keep it that way. I think Dixie Kong is a better choice. I'd recommend you add Pac-Man over Snake (supposing that 3 is still the Third party limit). Cut Lucario, I think Mewtwo is the "hot Pokemon" right now to save space for other characters. Roy is not necessary, you definitely should put Chrom instead. (Chrom is the most popular FE character in Japan)

 

[FlareHabanero]

By the way, the lucky guess about Pac-man, Little Mac, and Mii is false.

Come one people, stop pretending it's a legit thing and get over it. You're embarrassing yourselves.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So I updated my roster again. There are 50 slots, which is what I think is a fairly reasonable amount. If anyone has any questions, concerns, and/or criticisms, I will gladly defend my positions on the size/character choices.

50 Slots is completely approved by me. But, you can't use the Poke'mon Trainer thing as an excuse to put more Poke'mon slots than Mario slots. That is not going to happen. Once again another person has Skyward Zelda on their roster. Do I even have to mention that. I already explained every reason why that won't happen. And to think after the confirmation of Link's design people still can't accept that. Ugh. Maybe I should just accept that people aren't gonna learn some things. Everything else is A-OK.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I've had a theory for some time but nothing I've actually researched on. The 3DS has 2.0 flash memory while the Wii U has 32. That is a big leap. That being said, it's in obvious the 3DS will limit the Wii U in some aspects. As well, Sakurai had gone on to say that both versions will share the same roster library. This is why many people are claiming that the roster will be forty or less in size due to this limitation. However, I have a theory where the roster can still be 40-50 in both versions.

SSBB was full of additional content. It had a horde of stickers, trophies, music, items, the stage builder, the failed SSE, event matches, and even the classical demos. While all if those were fun, it did little to add to the actual gameplay. I feel that in SSB4, gameplay and characters are receiving a large focus. So here is what I am getting at:

In order to conserve space in order to create a large yet diverse roster, Sakurai and his team forgoes adding a large amount of content for the 3DS version and focuses more on customizable content while the Wii U is the more traditional Smash experience? That is to say that additional content is minimalized in order to conserve space in both the 3DS and Wii U?

It might be a pipedream but it is something that I find realistically happening. I'm trying to find the interview where Sakurai commented the differences between the two versions, both having the same roster but different stages. Is it unrealistic to suggest that additional content in both versions will be different? The 3DS having less trophies, stickers, music, and such? How many people will be disappointed that we didnt get 100+ songs in both versions as opposed to Ike, Lucario, Lucas, Toon Link, etc being cut? Would people prefer a downsize in content but a 40+ roster size?

I am also trying to figure out how much total space the Brawl roster took and compare that to the 3DS memory. In my opinion, by finding out how much memory the content in SSBB, we can guesstimate how much will be needed in the 3DS ( if that makes any sense). Obviously, cutting a few trophies does mean it will free up the roster but a possible decrease in overall additional content may allow a few spots on the roster to open up. Like I said, I'm unsure as to how much memory stages, trophies, or characters takes up so this is all a untested theory.

Suggestions?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think from the point on of DKCR, K. Rool might not be a good choice, because DKC has gone a new direction where there are new types of enemies,I don't think K. Rool would be a good choice if Nintendo were to keep it that way. I think Dixie Kong is a better choice. I'd recommend you add Pac-Man over Snake (supposing that 3 is still the Third party limit). Cut Lucario, I think Mewtwo is the "hot Pokemon" right now to save space for other characters. Roy is not necessary, you definitely should put Chrom instead. (Chrom is the most popular FE character in Japan)

Will everybody STOP saying "Oh, K. Rool won't be in it because he wasn't in Tropical Freeze." This is starting to physically hurt.

 

[BluePikmin11]

No, DKC is going a direction where it's wants go different rather than the same ol Kremlings. I don't think at the time being, K. Rool is not necessary at the moment.

 

[BKupa666]

I think from the point on of DKCR, K. Rool might not be a good choice, because DKC has gone a new direction where there are new types of enemies,I don't think K. Rool would be a good choice if Nintendo were to keep it that way. I think Dixie Kong is a better choice.

K. Rool is starring in the upcoming "Donkey Kong Country - He Came, He Saw, He Kong-Quered" DVD release. He's just as relevant as ever.

 

[Opossum]

50 Slots is completely approved by me. But, you can't use the Poke'mon Trainer thing as an excuse to put more Poke'mon slots than Mario slots. That is not going to happen. Once again another person has Skyward Zelda on their roster. Do I even have to mention that. I already explained every reason why that won't happen. And to think after the confirmation of Link's design people still can't accept that. Ugh. Maybe I should just accept that people aren't gonna learn some things. Everything else is A-OK.

I'll start by saying that I don't think we'll get SS Zelda, I just liked the picture.

But, I will also say that I feel Mario already has the "core" characters it needs, with Toad being the only one that I'd add if any. Pokemon has a more diverse cast, and as a franchise (taking into account the sales for the games, anime, manga, and other merchandise) is arguably more popular. Therefore, I think Pokemon can have an easier time getting more characters than Mario as a series. That's just my opinion on the matter, though, so take it as you will.

 

[mimgrim]

I've had a theory for some time but nothing I've actually researched on. The 3DS has 2.0 flash memory while the Wii U has 32. That is a big leap. That being said, it's in obvious the 3DS will limit the Wii U in some aspects. As well, Sakurai had gone on to say that both versions will share the same roster library. This is why many people are claiming that the roster will be forty or less in size due to this limitation. However, I have a theory where the roster can still be 40-50 in both versions.

SSBB was full of additional content. It had a horde of stickers, trophies, music, items, the stage builder, the failed SSE, event matches, and even the classical demos. While all if those were fun, it did little to add to the actual gameplay. I feel that in SSB4, gameplay and characters are receiving a large focus. So here is what I am getting at:

In order to conserve space in order to create a large yet diverse roster, Sakurai and his team forgoes adding a large amount of content for the 3DS version and focuses more on customizable content while the Wii U is the more traditional Smash experience? That is to say that additional content is minimalized in order to conserve space in both the 3DS and Wii U?

It might be a pipedream but it is something that I find realistically happening. I'm trying to find the interview where Sakurai commented the differences between the two versions, both having the same roster but different stages. Is it unrealistic to suggest that additional content in both versions will be different? The 3DS having less trophies, stickers, music, and such? How many people will be disappointed that we didnt get 100+ songs in both versions as opposed to Ike, Lucario, Lucas, Toon Link, etc being cut? Would people prefer a downsize in content but a 40+ roster size?

I am also trying to figure out how much total space the Brawl roster took and compare that to the 3DS memory. In my opinion, by finding out how much memory the content in SSBB, we can guesstimate how much will be needed in the 3DS ( if that makes any sense). Obviously, cutting a few trophies does mean it will free up the roster but a possible decrease in overall additional content may allow a few spots on the roster to open up. Like I said, I'm unsure as to how much memory stages, trophies, or characters takes up so this is all a untested theory.

Suggestions?

I don't know how much the Brawl roster took up, but I do know that all of Brawl in it's enternity took up like 7.3 GBs or so and most of that was due top the SSE and poor compression or something like that (I forget the technical terms lol). The 3DS can hold all of what Brawl had on it and a bit more, but they will probably do better compression also making it not so big. People thinking that the 3DS is going to keep the roster libary of the Wii-U down just don't know and usually don't read or listen to these details when they get brought up. The 3DS is more then capable of having a large roster, the problem with the 3DS are characters like the Ice Climbers. Sakurai says as much in the interview, people just misinterpet/misread what he stated. But again, the 3DS WILL NOT affect the roster size of the Wii-U.

 

[BluePikmin11]

K. Rool is starring in the upcoming "Donkey Kong Country - He Came, He Saw, He Kong-Quered" DVD release. He's just as relevant as ever.

Implying the DVDs are a major part of the franchise.

 

[BKupa666]

Implying the DVDs are a major part of the franchise.

Movies and television shows supposedly make Mewtwo and Pacman relevant, and Palutena supporters reference her anime short to bolster her prominence. It makes absolute sense that the same principles of relevance apply to K. Rool and the DKC DVD...unless, of course, we're selectively applying relevance to begin with.

 

[Deleted member]

By the way, the lucky guess about Pac-man, Little Mac, and Mii is false.

Come one people, stop pretending it's a legit thing and get over it. You're embarrassing yourselves.

Unproven =/= False.

It can neither be confirmed nor denied until we actually get more information.

 

[AEMehr]

Whoa. Calm down, dude. I'm simply stating why that obviously won't be the design used in SSB4. I posted it because I've seen a lot of rosters using that version of Zelda. If other people get all riled up and start arguing about it just because they want SS Zelda then that's not my fault.

But the problem is that you're criticizing a roster based on artwork choice. You act like Zelda MUST be from Twilight Princess because of how Link looks. Does he look hyper realistic to you? No? Then he isn't from Twilight Princess.
Just because the tunic is based off of the design from Twilight Princess doesn't mean jack squat.

Why do you guys even care? Link looks the way he does, awesome, and that's how it is. Next topic pls

And yes, why DOES it matter Noah? It's not like a new character or anything, if you're concerned about game cannon Smash Brothers has destroyed game cannon in the franchise too many times to count already (This includes TP Zelda turning into Sheik).

Nobody cares if Zelda looks like she's from SS, TP, OoT, or LTTP. Sure, there might be a preference for a certain design, but nothing that won't cause people to not buy the game (Like the lack of a character or something).

 

[TheTuninator]

By the way, the lucky guess about Pac-man, Little Mac, and Mii is false.

Come one people, stop pretending it's a legit thing and get over it. You're embarrassing yourselves.

I think it could have been correct, but I'm still treating it as BS until proven otherwise.

Far more interesting to me than that at least partially false rumor is the in-depth analysis somebody on GameFAQs did which corroborated the theory that the boxing ring is a Punch-Out! stage via examination of the detail work on the stage.

Nobody cares if Zelda looks like she's from SS, TP, OoT, or LTTP. Sure, there might be a preference for a certain design, but nothing that won't cause people to not buy the game (Like the lack of a character or something).

I'm a Zelda main, and I care! I far prefer the OoT or TP look to the SS look. Nothing that I won't buy the game over, but it's hardly fair to dismiss such matters as not worth talking about, given that there is a marked difference between SS Zelda and other forms.

Unproven =/= False.

It can neither be confirmed nor denied until we actually get more information.

If it's legit than an insider is screwing with us, because there is no way that Nintendo suddenly decided at the last minute not to show half of their E3 reveals.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Do you guys think Shulk being from a series that didn't originate as a Nintendo series (Xeno series) seriously hinders his chances of being in Smash?

 

[allshort17]

Yes considering there are so many characters that did originate from a Nintendo series and are more iconic and historical that are equally able to get a spot.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Unproven =/= False.

It can neither be confirmed nor denied until we actually get more information.

I guess the part about Pac-man (or any Namco character) not being planned and the part about those characters supposedly appearing at E3 slipped your mind. Look, even you cannot exactly deny those parts.

Do you guys think Shulk being from a series that didn't originate as a Nintendo series (Xeno series) seriously hinders his chances of being in Smash?

No, not really. Keep in mind that Xenosaga, Xenogears, and Xenoblade are only related to each other in name only and are unrelated otherwise. However, only expect stuff out of Xenoblade and the upcoming X, due to copyright shenanigans regarding to the precursors preventing Xenosaga and Xenogears content from coming into Super Smash Bros.

 

[Hyper Luigi]

K. Rool is pushing it. I'd only include Dixie as a team with Diddy, otherwise 2 is enough DK.

Mario is well represented with arguably 6-8 related characters which were playable in Mario spin-offs. Beyond Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser you have to at least consider Yoshi, Wario and DK and you could consider Diddy due to Mario Kart but even if you don't include him and DK, Yoshi and Wario first appeared in the Mario series. I'm not opposed to Toad, Bowser Jr. or even Paper Mario but I think Mario has the essential reps already.

Pokemon has enough with 7 but 8 puts it in extended Mario series rep status. I'd be okay with just the Brawl reps but I do want Mewtwo back. I guess I'll just live with Sakurai's decision. Personally I'd cut JigglyPuff to keep Lucario but history is on JigglyPuff's side.

 

[Arcadenik]

Movies and television shows supposedly make Mewtwo and Pacman relevant, and Palutena supporters reference her anime short to bolster her prominence. It makes absolute sense that the same principles of relevance apply to K. Rool and the DKC DVD...unless, of course, we're selectively applying relevance to begin with.

To be fair, Sakurai probably had a hand in the Kid Icarus anime shorts and he admitted he looks into the Pokémon anime/movies for "hot" Pokémon... he didn't say anything about the Donkey Kong cartoon.

 

[Hyper Luigi]

Being in a poorly received cartoon won't help K. Rool

Pokemon movies are a big deal in Japan

 

[FlareHabanero]

It's funny because the Donkey Kong Country cartoon has a cult status in Japan.

Also I will consider that cartoon better then a decent chunk of the video game based cartoons out there, though that's not saying a whole lot since it does have it's flaws too.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Do you guys think Shulk being from a series that didn't originate as a Nintendo series (Xeno series) seriously hinders his chances of being in Smash?

Xenoblade and the Xenosaga games are different properties and series that have nothing in common with each other aside from the "Xeno" in their name and the fact that they were both made by Monolith. Xenoblade is wholly owned by Nintendo. The Xenosaga games are a series owned by Namco. The Xenoblade series is owned by Nintendo. Simple as that.

So it doesn't affect him at all.

 

[BKupa666]

To be fair, Sakurai probably had a hand in the Kid Icarus anime shorts and he admitted he looks into the Pokémon anime/movies for "hot" Pokémon... he didn't say anything about the Donkey Kong cartoon.

That's a different point entirely and one I agree with, though it's worth noting that he has included DK's Neutral Special and Yeti costume from the cartoon. However, if existing in a new release is all a character needs to earn the label 'relevant,' K. Rool fits the bill with this new DVD.

Edit: Quality of source material matters not, a relevant appearance is a relevant appearance.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

That's a different point entirely and one I agree with, though it's worth noting that he has included DK's Neutral Special and Yeti costume from the cartoon. However, if existing in a new release is all a character needs to earn the label 'relevant,' K. Rool fits the bill with this new DVD.

Not to mention that apparently the cartoon is canon in Japan.