Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Mega Bidoof]

Bear Hugger for SSB4.

We have yet to represent Canada.

What's a Canada?

 

[Hotfeet444]

Well, since this current topic sucks and is just plain obnoxious, here...for the holiday feeling....

May the Merry Christmas be with you.

 

[Inawordyes]

Okay, so I posted this about an hour ago in the Wonder Red support thread, but I'm reposting it here for visibility since that thread is deader than Toad's chances ():

Okay, so this is a giant bump, but I got to thinking the other day.

We know that Sakurai looks for what characters can bring to the table in terms of unique playstyles in Smash (all four currently-revealed newcomers show that, as they're all something that Smash has never seen before and very diversified). Now, Wonder Red has the massive potential to be a unique character, due to both his own abilities, and the abilities of his teammates - with characters such as Ness and Rosalina, who take moves from characters in their series/game, Wonder Red could very easily use their abilities in his moveset and it wouldn't be out of place in Smash. We know that he looks for characters who will make people want to play the game, but also characters who represent popular or relevant franchises - Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Super Mario Galaxy; these are the franchises and game we've seen represented, and they're all highly popular. While this point is more debatabe, The Wonderful 101 was a very highly-regarded game, popular when taking into account that it is on Wii U and not many have it at this point, but also relevant as the first new IP released on the Wii U.

The point which I thought of, however, which hits the nail on the head is this: We know, too, that Sakurai, when he wants to pursue a character for inclusion, goes and meets with the respective studios that made said character. He asks the Pokemon Company who the current hot and relevant Pokemon are, he does the same with Intelligent Systems regarding Fire Emblem - he seeks a character and asks the studios for who they think would be not only popular, but would make a good fit for Smash. And in some cases, he finds something appealing in characters on his own - when inquiring about a second Fire Emblem character in Melee's production, IS recommended Leif, but Sakurai got to see some gameplay of the them-unreleased Fire Emblem featuring Roy, and decided to choose Roy because he was intrigued by his fire sword, and while IS recommended Ike for Brawl, he saw something unique in his giant sword.

Here's the point: Sakurai went and visited the offices for Platinum Games, the studio behind Bayonetta and The Wonder 101; we know this, it was documented by a few gaming websites I believe sometime last year, prior to the announcement of SM4SH at E3 (IIRC). Sakurai doesn't just visit studios, so why would he visit Platinum Games unless he was interested in including a Platinum Games character in SM4SH? And we know his criteria for third-party characters, and Bayonetta is owned by Sega anyways, so it can't be her he was going for. So who was he going there for? Wonder Red, the unique and potential-filled character from a then-upcoming game that would be released on the Wii U as an exclusive, by a company that produced the game and Nintendo published.

I think we (and the majority of people) are vastly underestimating his chances because his game was well-received but didn't sell well (and keep in mind, Sakurai visited their offices in September of last year and the roster for Smash was decided way before The Wonder 101 released, meaning that if Sakurai saw potential enough to include Wonder Red, it would be unaffected by how well it sold), and because he's a new character who currently has only one game under his belt so far. Now granted, Sakurai visited before E3 2012, supposedly for the reason that he wanted to see what they would be revealing (which turned out to be The Wonderful 101, then known as Project P-100), this is true. But keep in mind that he started development on SM4SH when Kid Icarus: Uprising finished - which was in March of 2012, long before E3. And we know, too, that for a good portion of 2012, prior to the official unveiling at E3 2013, that he was deciding on the roster, intending to bring all veterans back that he could, but also which newcomers to add. And we know that as mentioned above, he contacts the developers about including their characters (it was even hinted in the original Japanese translation of the Daily Picture we got on the the release day of Pokemon X & Y that the Pokemon Company asked Sakurai not to reveal a character, so we got a hint at Xerneas as a Pokeball Mon instead), so Sakurai could've gone to Platinum Games' office simply to see what they were gonna unveil, but that was during the time he was deciding the roster, and he knew, we all knew, that there was a game that they were developing exclusively for the Wii U that would be unveiled, so what if Sakurai went to see if he could find potential in the character of said game?

I now believe that Wonder Red is a shoo-in because of these reasons (though perhaps I was a bit all over the place above with explaining, haha), and so I'm reviving this discussion because it fell by the wayside. We've seen that Sakurai isn't shy about putting in characters that are worthy but nobody really thought much about prior (Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina, Villager to an extent due to a previous comment of his), and Wonder Red is worthy but nobody really talks about him much because of a combination of factors that Sakurai has never even acknowledged as being driving forces for a character's inclusion (more than one game, game/series that sells well, extablished rather than recency because recency, etc.), so here we are.


Anybody else want to add in some thoughts?

 

[Seraphim.]

It's still kind of weird how we have yet to see a Nintendo newcomer that is known for fighting.

Sakurai is clearly thinking outside the box here. Which is good.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Spoiler

I'm sure we can all agree Vaati is the best Zelda newcomer.

No, that would be Masked Link.

Or maybe the Hero of Old Gir.

 

[Reznor]

Spoiler

I'm sure we can all agree Vaati is the best Zelda newcomer.

that's a funny way to spell Tingle

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So he repeats the same arguments after it's been proven wrong/invalid, ignores everything you say, posts tons of laugh gifs about it, declares all his opinions as facts, trolls fans of characters, and tries to draw attention away from his stupidity by pointing out my half year old and irrelevant mistakes.

Enter TheDivineDiddy...

 

[Starbound]

>Sees people bringing up Phantom Zelda and Wonder Red

This is sure a nice step away from the norm.

 

[LordJackal]

Skull Hammer, Deku Leaf, and Fire Rod? PK Teleport, Beam, Brainshock, and Counter? How the hell does this NOT make Toon Link and Lucas viable for a unique move set?

Do you see why you're argument failed now?

Whether or not the developers take advantage of it has nothing to do with whether or not she has stuff they can use. Otherwise we can just say that not a single character can get a unique moveset because the developers won't bother doing it.

Again, this was yesterday. Smash began development like a year ago.

I'm sure they've known about it longer than we have. We also don't really have a release date for either game yet, so who knows what the time crunch is actually like.

So what basis do you have for saying Impa wouldn't share all specials plus smash attacks. If the fact that she has unique abilities didn't work for Lucas, Toon Link, and Ganondorf then it's not going to work for Impa.

That's not a solid argument at all. What basis do you have for saying Impa WOULD share all specials and smashes? He's pointing out that there are plenty of things they CAN do, what they WILL do is something nobody can possibly know.

Considering everyone here agrees with me on this and not a single person takes your futile and bias attempts to justify Impa seriously.

I don't agree with you. I don't want Impa in the game or think she'll be in, but his opinions aren't completely invalid and it's a possibility. Attacks on character don't make your case any stronger.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

As I said on the last page, in each smash game, Sakurai seems to have a goal for picking newcomers

In 64 he tried to get the main characters of each big Nintneod series and a second character for the two biggest series.

In Melee he tried to get more main characters of a series, without caring of they have original movesets or not, and 2 retro characters.

In Brawl it was a lot about recency to be honest. He added Licas, Lucario, Toon Link, And Ike. Whether they be good characters or not, that is recency for you.

And no it seems like Smash 4 will be about moveset potential and uniqueness. So really N64 now has a chance. We can see uniqueness in Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Rosalina, and Mega Man, even though he was added mostly for fan demand , which Sakurai couldn't ignore.
So I'm going to start making a new roster based on this realization about uniqueness being the key aspect in Smash 4.

 

[LordJackal]

What's a Canada?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Canada needs some promotion to help boost its sales.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

No, that would be Masked Link.

Or maybe the Hero of Old Gir.

Toon Link: "We DO NOT want another Link in the roster!"

 

[Jubileus57]

Okay, so I posted this about an hour ago in the Wonder Red support thread, but I'm reposting it here for visibility since that thread is deader than Toad's chances ():

If Sakurai's visit at Platinum Games was for a newcomer in sm4sh it could sure be Wonder Red, but ALSO Bayonetta, even if she is third party. Both have an amazing moveset and uniqueness potential. An inclusion of any of those in Smash would be a bright idea to sell their games as it is common knowledge that Platinum' games are amazing but have tremendously poor sales.

Bayonetta has something Wonder Red has not: she fights alone and does not need up to 100 heroes to get her moves working. Therefore if might be somehow easier to implement her than them. Wonder Red has in the other hand no problem with ratings because of guns ot mature content.

I'd say they're chances are pretty equal in the end. (Though I 100% support Bayonetta. She's far too awesome).

 

[Deleted member]

That's right Diddy, get off the computer and be a family man.

 

[Hotfeet444]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Canada needs some promotion to help boost its sales.

Er...Sasquatch for Smash Bros 4?

 

[AEMehr]

People mad everywhere cause Impa is a huge possibility now

lolwut
She appears in a spinoff okay sure. It's not like she wasn't going to be a minor character in a future Zelda title anyways.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Toon Link: "We DO NOT want another Link in the roster!"

I never said we should. He said Vaati is the best Zelda character for smash. And I said it's Masked Link.
He never said should be in smash 4.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Canada needs some promotion to help boost its sales.

So I did some research and I found out that Canada is actually a small indie developing team located in the country I call the USAUSA, the United States above the United States of America.

So after all they do deserve some love in smash bros.
Id through in Justin Bieber.
Since he said he wants to retire music yesterday, maybe he can become a fighter in smash bros as a new job. His job description will be "Lowest Tier."

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I'll only accept Impa if:

1. She does not axe Shiek

2. If Ghirahim, Vaati, and Toon Zelda/Tetra is considered redundant by Sakurai himself. There's a reason why I didn't mention Tingle.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Whether or not the developers take advantage of it has nothing to do with whether or not she has stuff they can use. Otherwise we can just say that not a single character can get a unique moveset because the developers won't bother doing it.

I never said she doesn't have stuff she can use. I said Masahiro Sakurai won't implement them based on his criteria.

I'm sure they've known about it longer than we have.

That's not how it works. In Melee there was no reference to any games after it like Wind Waker or Super Mario Sunshine. Otherwise we'd probably have Toon Link in Melee. Brawl had nothing to do with games like Super Mario Galaxy or Wii Fit. Sakurai usually finalizes the roster and keeps it that way. The only exceptions have been Sonic for being the most requested character ever. The other was Roy who was literally suggested by Intelligent Systems and picked by him for no other reason, but fire.

I also don't believe Sakurai had prior knowledge. Also Impa is not confirmed to be playable.

We also don't really have a release date for either game yet, so who knows what the time crunch is actually like.

The release date is irrelevant. Did I mention this is a SPIN OFF title?

That's not a solid argument at all. What basis do you have for saying Impa WOULD share all specials and smashes?

Sakurai's criteria, patterns, and 3 of the characters he added.

I don't want Impa in the game or think she'll be in

So you DO agree with me.

but his opinions aren't completely invalid and it's a possibility.

He's not posting opinions. Also how is Impa having unique abilities valid for saying it's LIKELY she will have them when it wasn't for Ganondorf?

Attacks on character don't make your case any stronger.

Nor does bias and love for characters.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

We don't know what new Zelda characters are going to be added, if any at all. What we do know is that they're planning on bringing back every character that was in Brawl, which means no character will be replaced, this includes Shiek. If Impa gets in it won't be by replacing Sheik.

 

[BluePikmin11]

We can have another Link if the Link provides something new, like Masked Link. >_>

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Do we even know if that character in Hyrule Warriors is Impa?

The picture is incredibly blurry.

 

[Inawordyes]

If Sakurai's visit at Platinum Games was for a newcomer in sm4sh it could sure be Wonder Red, but ALSO Bayonetta, even if she is third party. Both have an amazing moveset and uniqueness potential. An inclusion of any of those in Smash would be a bright idea to sell their games as it is common knowledge that Platinum' games are amazing but have tremendously poor sales.

Bayonetta has something Wonder Red has not: she fights alone and does not need up to 100 heroes to get her moves working. Therefore if might be somehow easier to implement her than them. Wonder Red has in the other hand no problem with ratings because of guns ot mature content.

I'd say they're chances are pretty equal in the end. (Though I 100% support Bayonetta. She's far too awesome).

Very fair. The reason why I say Wonder Red, though, is because Sakurai said he went there supposedly to get a look at what they were gonna be revealing at E3, which was The Wonderful 101. Bayonetta is awesome for what she is, but even if Wonder Red would be a little more difficult to implement, he is a Nintendo character, and Sakurai approached Platinum Games (or rather, he tried sneaking into their offices and got caught) about The Wonderful 101, not Bayonetta 2, which is why I decided that it was more likely to believe in Wonder Red. There is a chance that it could be either, though, and hopefully we will see soon.

 

[Jubileus57]

For how long has this Impa war between Diddy Kong and Saturn been lasting? I feel like I've read it, like, millions of times.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Wait, we don't even know if that's Impa in Hyrule Warriors? Jeezus, Diddy...

 

[AEMehr]

Do we even know if that character in Hyrule Warriors is Impa?

The picture is incredibly blurry.

Wait, we don't even know if that's Impa in Hyrule Warriors? Jeezus, Diddy...

It is clearly Impa fighting alongside Link, but I don't know why Diddy Kong is spewing out outrageous baseless claims that Impa is playable in the game.

 

[Frostwraith]

Wait, we don't even know if that's Impa in Hyrule Warriors? Jeezus, Diddy...

You know, I was waiting for someone to make this observation.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I don't think I've clearly expressed my opinions on Impa as a playable character yet.
I'd take her pretty much anyway, as long a she doesn't axe Sheik, or be a Sheik clone (which she doesn't have to be).

As I stated above, Sakurai seems to be trying to pull in characters with unique moveset potential.
While Impa does have the potential to be unique, she is not the first person you think of when trying to find unique characters.
There are some characters who will automatically have more creative movesets, and will have more potential than Impa just because they have more to work with.
I see Sakurai going for Tingle, or even Vaati, just because we don't have anyone like them. Especially Vaati, as he uses Dark Magic, something that hasn't been in smash, unless you count in Ganondorf's physical attacks.

Though I do see Tingle as the more likely, as he is recent (not that this is all that matters), has his own spin-offs, and has more to work with, and Sakurai could really do whatever he wants with him.

Now back to Impa, I like her character, an think she could make a pretty good character in smash, but unfortunately, not this time around, as she doesn't seem to fit what Sakurai is looking for in a character.
Hopefully, by Smash 5, young and fighting Impa will have had more appearances and more fights to show what she can do, which probably will happen as she alread seems to be fighting in Hyrule Warriors.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It is clearly Impa fighting alongside Link, but I don't know why Diddy Kong is spewing out outrageous baseless claims that Impa is playable in the game.

Is it?

I honestly can't tell...

I mean, it could be, but I honestly can't tell...

 

[Jubileus57]

Very fair. The reason why I say Wonder Red, though, is because Sakurai said he went there supposedly to get a look at what they were gonna be revealing at E3, which was The Wonderful 101. Bayonetta is awesome for what she is, but even if Wonder Red would be a little more difficult to implement, he is a Nintendo character, and Sakurai approached Platinum Games (or rather, he tried sneaking into their offices and got caught) about The Wonderful 101, not Bayonetta 2, which is why I decided that it was more likely to believe in Wonder Red. There is a chance that it could be either, though, and hopefully we will see soon.

Wait, where did you see that he sneaked there just because of Wonder Red? I've never seen that anywhere.. .

 

[TheLastJinjo]

For how long has this Impa war between Diddy Kong and Saturn been lasting? I feel like I've read it, like, millions of times.

Maybe if you people had an interesting conversation for once I wouldn't have to spend all my time arguing with the worst Smashboards has to offer.

 

[Frostwraith]

This is more or less how I feel about people who simply don't listen to reason and continue to spew the same crap and beating the same dead horse over and over again:

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Maybe if you people had an interesting conversation for once I wouldn't have to spend all my time arguing with the worst Smashboards has to offer.

Diddy is far from the worst SWF has to offer.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Diddy is far from the worst SWF has to offer.

So far I haven't met anyone worse than DD, Shortie, and Diddy...do I want to know?

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Now, are we being serious about Wonder Red here?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Excuse me, but why exactly should Sakurai be the least bit interested in Wonderful 101?

 

[LoneKonWolf]

Diddy is far from the worst SWF has to offer.

then who is the worst?
(besides divine deity, I don't think he counts anymore)

 

[Hotfeet444]

This is more or less how I feel about people who simply don't listen to reason and continue to spew the same crap and beating the same dead horse over and over again:

It's really hard to believe that Lord Death's Lord Actor is also the VA of this little bundle of explosives:

Spoiler

PS: I LOVE SOUL EATER.

 

[Frostwraith]

Now, are we being serious about Wonder Red here?

Still a better choice than Impa, without a doubt.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Still a better choice than Impa, without a doubt.

Probably because he hasn't beaten to a dead horse.