Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[TheLastJinjo]

Oh, boy, the "We can't predict anything!!!!" s***...It's bizarre how terrified people see

****! Get to the sarcasm shelter!!!

 

[Morbi]

I would just like to mention that "muh relevancy" and "muh female characters" are now applicable. I am a huge Rosalina fan, and I will always remember this reveal. However, she was last in line of importance (in my opinion). To argue that her appearance in 3D World had nothing to do with the decision would be fallacious. It is never the "be all end all" argument. It does have a bearing on someones chances though, more than most expected.

 

[BluePikmin11]

(Sees Saturn's signature changed to Rosalina, will let future people know he predicted Rosalina)
Oh you..

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sees Saturn's signature changed to Rosalina.

I'll put any character I predicted even in the slightest regardless if my support was disproportionate to the doubt. Just like I'll put in Bomberman or Medusa if that **** ever happen.

 

[BKupa666]

I would just like to mention that "muh relevancy" and "muh female characters" are now applicable. I am a huge Rosalina fan, and I will always remember this reveal. However, she was last in line of importance (in my opinion). To argue that her appearance in 3D World had nothing to do with the decision would be fallacious. It is never the "be all end all" argument. It does have a bearing on someones chances though, more than most expected.

I'm certainly going to start considering new appearances more in my analyses, but the GameFAQS interpretation of relevance (i.e. "NEW GAME = SHOO IN") still deserves to be spat upon. Also, considering we don't know that 3D World got Rosalina into Smash, it's not fallacious to claim otherwise. Everything Rosalina does in-Smash is based on the Galaxy games. Who's to say Sakurai didn't take a liking to her based on those alone?

 

[Shorts]

Call me when series with interesting potential newcomers are being discussed.

If Tingle and Ghirahim aren't interesting I don't know what is.

 

[Morbi]

(Sees Saturn's signature changed to Rosalina, will let future people know he predicted Rosalina)
Oh you..

It always happens, someone gets revealed and out of nowhere everyone knew it was going to happen. It happened with Toon Link, and now it is happening with Rosalina. The only reason I am on this website is to speculate and communicate with the community. So getting speculation correct is very rewarding for me. Some people don't really care as much as I do. This is one thing that I am glad I was right about. It is like a game to me, there is no value in pretending I didn't predict something.

I will fully admit to any predictions that I was wrong about (like Springs release date and Toad).

 

[Starbound]

I've always thought relevancy was a factor. But it's clearly not as big of a factor as uniqueness.

Using relevancy as an absolute, to me, is fallacious (as in "Dixie is more relevant to the DK games than K. Rool is so she will be in Smash"). But when you apply it as a component of a greater picture (as in "Dixie is more likely to be in Smash Bros. because she is more relevant to the DK games") is how I see relevance playing a role in character inclusion or exclusion.

Similarly, every character is unique. But, we can't have every character in Smash Bros. So uniqueness isn't a black/white you're unique or you aren't unique factor. I think it's relative to the other characters (which may be another reason why Rosalina was chosen instead of Bowser Jr. et al). But as every character is unique, we cannot use uniqueness as an absolute.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'll put any character I predicted even in the slightest regardless if my support was disproportionate to the doubt. Just like I'll put in Bomberman or Medusa if that **** ever happen.

Well guess I'm predicting nearly every character.. I'm automatically a winner.

 

[Chandeelure]

I've watched the Rosalina video like 17 times XD

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So I checked my iPhone in 4th hour class at school and laughed hysterically before asking to use the restroom where I watched the trailer. Here are my comments for today:

1. Holy ****, guess I was wrong about my doubts for Rosalina. Please proceed to shove it in my face.
2. Oh, boy! Can't wait for idiots to start saying Ghirahim is going to get in.
3. What does this mean for Starfy?
4. FINALLY A ****ING NEWCOMER REVEAL!!!
5. I think having a recent Mario newcomer kind of makes sense and it's not at all unjustified that we didn't get teh must important maryeo characters in a series such as Mario.

 

[N3ON]

I'll put any character I predicted even in the slightest regardless if my support was disproportionate to the doubt. Just like I'll put in Bomberman or Medusa if that **** ever happen.

Then shouldn't you include every character you predicted even in the slightest in that sig of yours?

 

[Morbi]

I'm certainly going to start considering new appearances more in my analyses, but the GameFAQS interpretation of relevance (i.e. "NEW GAME = SHOO IN") still deserves to be spat upon. Also, considering we don't know that 3D World got Rosalina into Smash, it's not fallacious to claim otherwise. Everything Rosalina does in-Smash is based on the Galaxy games. Who's to say Sakurai didn't take a liking to her based on those alone?

No, it wasn't her appearance in the game alone. It was a contributing factor, to claim otherwise would be erroneous. She had other things going for her (obviously her potential and popularity). It was an aspect of her inclusion though, it might not have even been the most significant attribute. It was simply an excuse for him to use her in my opinion.

I do agree, any generic argument that is used alone deserves to be ridiculed. To claim that they have little or nothing to do with her inclusion is unwise in my opinion.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Eh. That said, I can't really complain about the lack of newcomer reveals now.

She's unique, so...yeah. Never actually expected her.

 

[U-Throw]

I'm certainly going to start considering new appearances more in my analyses, but the GameFAQS interpretation of relevance (i.e. "NEW GAME = SHOO IN") still deserves to be spat upon. Also, considering we don't know that 3D World got Rosalina into Smash, it's not fallacious to claim otherwise. Everything Rosalina does in-Smash is based on the Galaxy games. Who's to say Sakurai didn't take a liking to her based on those alone?

Yeah, but did you forget that everything Rosalina does in World is based of Galaxy?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Well guess I'm predicting nearly every character.. I'm automatically a winner.

Do you see Villager and Wii Fit Trainer on my signature?

Then shouldn't you include every character you predicted even in the slightest in that sig of yours?

Sure, let me just hack the site to have unlimited signature space to put in every goddamn character. Aren't you suppose to be like a moderator? The one who's job is to prevent trolling not create it? This website is as obnoxious as a kindergarten classroom sometimes.

 

[Morbi]

So I checked my iPhone in 4th hour class at school and laughed hysterically before asking to use the restroom where I watched the trailer. Here are my comments for today:

1. Holy ****, guess I was wrong about my doubts for Rosalina. Please proceed to shove it in my face.
2. Oh, boy! Can't wait for idiots to start saying Ghirahim is going to get in.
3. What does this mean for Starfy?
4. FINALLY A ****ING NEWCOMER REVEAL!!!
5. I think having a recent Mario newcomer kind of makes sense and it's not at all unjustified that we didn't get teh must important maryeo characters in a series such as Mario.

1. That was surprising amount of humility.
2. Hopefully that is not the case.
3. This is actually huge. The character reveal was Rosalina + Lumos. So he counts as his own character almost to the extent of Sheik or Zero-Suti. I would honestly doubt another star-based character on the roster. However, Lumos pretty much covers what most people expect out of Starfy. I just thought that this was an elaborate observation. I wouldn't proclaim that he is de-confirmed, but his chances have been severely attenuated. Good point.
4. Right?
5. Yes, agreed. Rosalina wasn't my first choice; however, I did support her and produce evidence for her inclusion. A Mario newcomer seemed obvious until 3D World yielded nothing, so most began to speculate that we wouldn't get another. Some of us retained the belief and it paid off.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

If Tingle and Ghirahim aren't interesting I don't know what is.

-Ghirahim

Spoiler

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Then shouldn't you include every character you predicted even in the slightest in that sig of yours?

I'm just pleased that none of my current character inputs went down the drain right now. Of course, outside of Rosalina, the other characters that I truly want are K. Rool, Ridley, Bowser Jr., Dixie Kong, and Mewtwo. Sakurai would have to be nuts to not make Ridley playable this time, and Mewtwo needs a comeback.

 

[N3ON]

Sure, let me just hack the site to have unlimited signature space to put in every goddamn character. Aren't you suppose to be like a moderator? The one who's job is to prevent trolling not create it? This website is as obnoxious as a kindergarten classroom sometimes.

Sure Saturn. It's the website's fault you can't include more than 22 characters in your sig. In one collective image.

I am a mod though, so I can take it up with the other staff, clarify for you what the sig capabilities actually are, how many characters of that size would be feasible to include, and then hold you to it if you want.

lol

 

[Shorts]

I think Mario is done. I wish I would have been able to play as Junior, but Rosalina will do. Now that Mario have five characters, it pretty much sets any existing franchise up to have at least one more addition and it not be weird. Mario is the one that seemed the most.. "complete" to me. Now that we have this addition, everyone is game. Which excites me, because I don't care for 95% of all the potential newcomers that could come from any smaller franchises.

Also, I find it funny that Luma and Kirby get along so well, it reminds me of how I would imagine Starfy and Kirby acting.

 

[Morbi]

The notion of Ghirahim always bothered me. If Sakurai truly valued uniqueness and personality along with move-set potential... Ghirahim would be one of the best candidates. He has popularity to support him as well as recency. He really fits every element aside from the importance aspect.

I still think Tingle or Toon Zelda are much more likely. However, it seems hypocritical to not include Ghirahim if we went by his criteria.

 

[BKupa666]

Yeah, but did you forget that everything Rosalina does in World is based of Galaxy?

Rosalina spins and does generic Mario stuff in World. All of that Luma magic, the mod-esque hoverdashing, the galactic graphics, the vacuum star thing, that's all from Galaxy.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Sure Saturn. It's the website's fault you can't include more than 22 characters in your sig. In one collective image.

I don't believe I mentioned my predictions being under 22 characters + other signature gifs. Don't lol at me when you can't even do math correctly.

Thank you for your efforts to spend all of your time annoying me today, it was obnoxious while it lasted.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

I've watched the Rosalina video like 17 times XD

Going on 34 now.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think Mario is done. I wish I would have been able to play as Junior, but Rosalina will do. Now that Mario have five characters, it pretty much sets any existing franchise up to have at least one more addition and it not be weird. Mario is the one that seemed the most.. "complete" to me. Now that we have this addition, everyone is game. Which excites me, because I don't care for 95% of all the potential newcomers that could come from any smaller franchises.

Also, I find it funny that Luma and Kirby get along so well, it reminds me of how I would imagine Starfy and Kirby acting.

We definitely need a Starfy vs. Kirby. The puffstar versus the puffball.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think Mario is done. I wish I would have been able to play as Junior, but Rosalina will do. Now that Mario have five characters, it pretty much sets any existing franchise up to have at least one more addition and it not be weird. Mario is the one that seemed the most.. "complete" to me. Now that we have this addition, everyone is game. Which excites me, because I don't care for 95% of all the potential newcomers that could come from any smaller franchises.

Also, I find it funny that Luma and Kirby get along so well, it reminds me of how I would imagine Starfy and Kirby acting.

There's still Bowser Jr. to keep in mind though. In Brawl, if one were to treat the Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon separate, there would be a total of "6" Pokemon reps.

 

[Starbound]

You're only at 34?

I can't seem to go 5 mins without watching it.

 

[Starcutter]

DUUUUUUUDE THAT TRAILER!!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

There's still Bowser Jr. to keep in mind though. In Brawl, if one were to treat the Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon separate, there would be a total of "6" Pokemon reps.

There won't be 6 characters from a franchise if it means 6 on the selection screen.

The character reveal was Rosalina + Lumos. So he counts as his own character almost to the extent of Sheik or Zero-Suti.

No, Luma counts to the extent of Pikmin. Nice try though. I'd say Starfy's not too unlikely considering we had 2 Pink Puffballs with shared moves and Starfy mostly has transformations and items from his games.

 

[SchAlternate]

Well, uh, Rosalina got confirmed!

... This surely caught me off-guard. Not in a bad sense, though!

 

[Morbi]

There's still Bowser Jr. to keep in mind though. In Brawl, if one were to treat the Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon separate, there would be a total of "6" Pokemon reps.

The apparent difference here is that Mario is technically 7 (despite Sakurai's overt attempt to distance our favorite green dinosaur... and Wario). Secondly, Pokemon Trainer is supposed to be treated as one entity. This is further enforced by the notion that you automatically switch upon death and the lingering fatigue mechanic. It is truly meant to be one representative in 3 characters.

So we either take the literal perspective (Mario has 5 reps and Pokemon has 6) or we take the intended perspective (Mario has 7 reps and Pokemon has 4 reps). We come to a discrepancy as we like to just filter certain things. It isn't fair to mix intent and literal in the same argument.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

We definitely need a Starfy vs. Kirby. The puffstar versus the puffball.

Well the luma..... kinda dampers things tho.

At least we have the puffball vs. the puffball

 

[Sobreviviente]

Rossy is a very relevant character to the mario franchise, just saying.

 

[Morbi]

There won't be 6 characters from a franchise if it means 6 on the selection screen.


No, Luma counts to the extent of Pikmin. Nice try though. I'd say Starfy's not too unlikely considering we had 2 Pink Puffballs with shared moves and Starfy mostly has transformations and items from his games.

Nice try? Taking Sakurai at his word is a nice try? That is almost absurd; however, it was expected from you. In any event, you do play as the Pikmin to an extent, just as you play as Nana. They are on the screen walking by you (as though they are your character), they are an important aspect of the character. Lumos actually attacks though, he does his own thing (as seen when he broke the grab or helped Rosalina combo an enemy from behind). Honestly, do you just disagree for the sake of disagreeing?

Maybe they aren't necessarily playable, but the point remains. The character is Rosalina and Lumos. It isn't just Rosalina participating.

 

[FinalStarmen]

I wish I could say something considerably clever, but I cannot. I'm simply overwhelmed with excitement.

If anything, Masahiro Sakurai isn't always going to go out of his way to add characters simply because they have higher authoritative star-power within their own respective series (as Rosalina was included rather than so-called imperative choices in Toad or Bowser Jr.). Now, this doesn't exactly mean we're getting Cranky Kong over King K. Rool or Dixie Kong (nor should we), but it does mean if Sakurai finds a character interesting enough to implement (as long as they have substantial importance, so don't expect secondary-tier characters to overtake first-tier), he could, although not necessarily would. This also gives me hope the Avatar would be chosen over Chrom or Lucina (if Sakurai is unwilling to bring back Roy, for whatever reason).

As many others have pointed out, does anybody else find the video indicative of a potential Rainbow Road stage?

 

[BKupa666]

Based on the trailer, Luma is summoned via a Special and is used as a supplement to Rosalina. It's not an individually playable part of the character, so comparing it to Sheik or Nana is ludicrous.

I also don't know why this is even a topic of discussion.

 

[Arcanir]

Woah there, don't remember this applying to Fire Emblem. MUHRECENCY must go die, honestly, it was a massive nuisance that caused RTC Fire Emblem Week and the Discussion FE Wars of Saltyness. I think it's 50/50 on importance. But Fire Emblem is a weird matter, I'm treating that franchise the EXACT SAME.

Fire Emblem was more an example because Rosalina will be (and already has in some circles) used as an excuse for those characters ignoring all of the thing she has done otherwise. Other series can apply as well, but for the most part it's Fire Emblem that I'm worried about.

I don't see how my analogy was faulty when there are plenty of instances where I can replace words you used with "replace" and it'd still hold the same meaning.

And yes, if you're booted from a project and someone takes your place later, that is replacing you. They took your place. Re-place. If you were a sound designer and you were booted out for programmer, however, then your own point holds true. We're comparing a Pokemon rep to a Pokemon rep, though, not Dr. Mario to Solid Snake.

Replaced.

You're mincing words as well as scenarios. Your analogy isn't quite applicable because it implies that Mewtwo was scrapped from the beginning which we know is not true, rather, he was scrapped during development due to Sonic's inclusion. As for your Sound Designer/Programmer analogy, neither Lucario or PT serve the same role as their psychic counterpart, being designed with completely different mechanics in mind, so even in that aspect they didn't replace him.

Also, how did my fellow co-worker replace me if I was working alongside him up until my sacking? He didn't do anything to cause it nor did he take over my position when I was sacked, he was just there when it happened.

Regardless, it looks like we won't see eye to eye on this, so lets agree to disagree.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Nice try? Taking Sakurai at his word is a nice try? That is almost absurd; however, it was expected from you. In any event, you do play as the Pikmin to an extent, just as you play as Nana.

Just stop, You actually play as Nana. You don't actually play as Pikmin and Luma, you attack with them. I should have expected less understanding from the guy who thought Yarn Yoshi would replace Yoshi though.

Now if you're done with your mart alack insults, I'll kindly back off with the smart alack attitude too. But, understand that's how it works. Jesus, it only takes this long for Smashboards to get out of hand. I was kind of hoping to share my excitement for Rosalina. But, clearly we had something else in mind.

 

[BluePikmin11]

This also gives me hope the Avatar would be chosen over Chrom or Lucina (if Sakurai is unwilling to bring back Roy, for whatever reason).

This gave me alot more hope for Anna actually.