Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Curious Villager]

There's a different rumor that says that Miis will be revealed in the next Direct along with Little Mac, Shulk and Roselina being ATs.

Oh I see then. Thanks for letting me know. :/

 

[BKupa666]

*skips over Fire Emblem s*** after seeing Nintendo Direct announcement*

I don't care one lick about what is announced so long as Mii is not announced. If that one Reddit leak were ever going to come true, and Little Mac were to be relegated once against to As***t Trophy status, this would be the time.

 

[Deleted member]

The one bright side (other than Pac-Man not being surefire for the haters) would be that it would open up room for Bald Bull.

 

[Diddy Kong]

There'll be no Sheik reveal. First of all, seen Zero Suit Samus yet? She was also the last character to be revealed in Brawl. Also, there's Impa. Sheik isn't a given despite what so many seem to think.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

What if I say that Sheik is a given despite what one person think?

 

[Deleted member]

Here we go again with the propaganda. -_-

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'm not intending on trying to launch an enormous discussion, it's pretty pointless, I just want to put things in perspective. Which might be pretty pointless too, but eh.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm not intending on trying to launch an enormous discussion, it's pretty pointless, I just want to put things in perspective. Which might be pretty pointless too, but eh.

I think Golden was talking about Diddy but you ninja'd him.

 

[BKupa666]

New idea: let's preemptively vent about how Sheik is an undeserving character and an overpowered transexual so that, when she's revealed, we can have a more peaceful discussion thread?

 

[Diddy Kong]

New idea: let's preemptively vent about how Sheik is an undeserving character and an overpowered transexual so that, when she's revealed, we can have a more peaceful discussion thread?

Tempted to go with this except that I'm disagreeing with the part 'when she's revealed'.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Why would Sheik get cut, anyways?

. If that perspective didn't exist, this thread might not be constantly torn asunder by eye-wateringly bland Chrom vs. Roy discussions on a near-daily basis.

The only reason it is "eye-wateringly bland" is because the topic keeps being repeated over and over with nothing truly changing. If either of those characters gets revealed at any point before release, then boy, we will have something truly new to discuss. No longer would there be a need to groan. No longer would there be a need to roll your eyes at the samey old stuff. No longer would there be a need to abandon this thread anymore because then you will be missing out on the fun, fun, fun! Surely these characters are particularly effective in increasing the rate of posting as most people will have something to say. Everybody wins, and by "Everyone", I mean me.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Why would Sheik get cut, anyways?

Do you want me to explain fully?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yes, indeed.

 

[Frostwraith]

Probably something along the lines of MUH RELEVANCY, MUH TRANSEXUAL, MUH IMPA.

Like we've NEVER seen this one before, right?

 

[BKupa666]

Tomorrow's Nintendo Direct...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yes, indeed.

Ok so here it goes.

Sheik, as a Zelda character isn't really altogheter an important character to the Zelda universe as a whole. She has had only 1 role and that's it. She was a disguise for Zelda, who only showed up to teach you a song, tell you a poem and dissapear. Not a whole lot of debt about her. But alas, turns out she's Zelda.

Zelda is the namesake of the series obviously. The Zelda we've seen in Smash so far, was by her introduction soley based on her Ocarina of Time appearance. By time, the most important role Zelda probably had in the series so it was only logical. In Brawl, she was based on her appearance in Twilight Princess, using the same moves from Ocarina of Time still. However, there was no Sheik in Twilight Princess. And here comes a tricky part with 2 different sources saying opposite things:

1) A source claimed Sheik was planned for Twilight Princess and was drafted for. But didn't make it in the final game because reasons.
2) Another source claims the model of Sheik was 100% made for Brawl.

Anyway, Sheik made it in Brawl which was sort of weird seeing many expected her gone. Sheik was a popular character in Melee however. Mostly due to her tier placement, and to avoid people saying 'TIERS DUN MATTER / DUN EXCIST' let's just say she was an extremely powerful character that was easy to use and pick up. Very much unlike other top tiers as Fox, Falco and Marth who have a much higher learning curve. Alas, Sheik was nerfed in Brawl greatly and nobody played her again. Not even the casual crowd or the 'hardcore Melee crowd' saw much appeal in Sheik.

Now, Zelda had increasingly important roles after Ocarina of Time. And since Sheik = Ocarina of Time Zelda, and Zelda and Link are different incarations everytime, Sheik obviously didn't appear in any of the following games. Very little characters do re-appear in Zelda lore however. Only Link, Zelda, Ganondorf and just a handful of others do. And even these handful of others and Ganon(dorf) are not a given.

Having Sheik in Zelda's moveset kinda goes against making Zelda being a well designed character that portraits her roles in the games well. She's always a person of high magical abilities however, so Din's Fire, Faore's Wind and Nayru's Love are hardly a bad thing, especially as they refer to the Goddesses of Hyrule. Sheik... Is just Zelda in a disguise. And since it was such a huge spoiler in Ocarina of Time that Sheik = Zelda, I honestly doubt we are ever gonna see Sheik again in a Zelda game? Why? Obvious spoilers.

In Smash, due to Sheik being so strong in Melee, nobody used Zelda. In Brawl, because Zelda was so horrible and Sheik slightly less so, almost nobody used Zelda. Yet, the two are balanced to match ONE playstyle which is the 'officially implied' ; soften up with swift Sheik, finish off with slow Zelda. Zelda being incredibly slow, light, immobile and laggy has suffered immediately from this. There was no reason to play as Zelda, as her style was written extremely badly. And Sheik could finish far more effectively in Melee anyway. In Brawl, she has a terrible time killing off enemies but it's still better than using Zelda who has like no options vs any character besides Ganondorf.

Instead of stressing a 'perfect balance' between these two characters that's seemingly as hard as try to implement Ridley in Smash (joke) and stressing a 'SHEIK SHOULD BE IN CUZ VETERAN' approach, why not just scrap Sheik entirely? Sheik is the 'sub' character to Zelda, no-one with a sane mind would say that Sheik is more important than Zelda. Zelda is obviously the 'main' character, much like Pokémon Trainer is the 'main' character out of the trio, and Samus > Zero Suit Samus. No Sheik would allow to try a different approach to Zelda's moveset, which is much needed as a two-time low tier character and even BOTTOM tier character in Brawl.

Sheik's moveset doesn't have to be scrapped entirely. Use it to make Impa I say. A character that has appeared many times throughout Zelda, and had an extremely important and influential (to the plot and in general) role in Skyward Sword, with fighting abilities of her own. Unlike Sheik, who had a moveset entirely made out of scratch aside from her Up B. Canoncally, Zelda was even trained by Impa to become Sheik so it's a no-brainer Impa thought her how to fight to. Despite that, Impa's role in Skyward Sword is bigger than Sheik's was. And since Impa also appears in Ocarina of Time, and this being the only game that gives Sheik any sort of 'relevance', it automatically makes Impa more relevant to. Sheik cannot appear in a Zelda game where there's no Sheikah tribe. And thusfar, the only Sheikah in the series are Impa and Sheik.

So personally, I see the ideal situation as one where Impa replaces Sheik as a separate character, freeing up Zelda's Down B and limited playstyle. And also keeping an extremely irrelevant, unimportant character out of Smash who's STILL using a full moveset thus limits ammount of newcomers / time in general. Also, it gives the Legend of Zelda a newcomer in Smash akin to how Brawl did it without changing too much around.

Melee Roster: Link, Zelda / Sheik, Ganondorf, Young Link
Brawl Roster: Link, Zelda / Sheik, Ganondorf, Toon Link

Young Link and Toon Link both served as 'child Link' and fulfill a similar role with similar movesets yet with changes all around. This is why Toon Link was also a better character all around than Young Link perhaps. No matter, Zelda still got a newcomer and little has changed.

Hypotetical Zelda Roster for Smash 4:
Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Impa

Sheik and Impa serve as 'Sheikah' rep, and Zelda is revamped to something better. Impa isn't a full Sheik replacement either, she's different enough to warrant herself as a newcomer, like Toon Link (but she has way more potential than cloney Brawl Toon Link however). Let's keep it true to Sakurai and expect little changes expect some moves thrown out for others and a full Down B. Am personally content with that, but could even provide a highly unique moveset.

Impa is a far more important Zelda character, and is one of the few characters outside of Link, Zelda and Ganon to have important roles throughout the series. You can't tell me that this isn't at least logical. To quote an older post of mine:

Y'know, been thinking about Impa again and how underrated she exactly is.

I've been hearing a countless times from people who defend Sheik that 'Sheik is important to the Zelda timeline' while Impa would not be. I cannot stress how wrong this is. Or how this warrants her stay in any way. Take the Downfall Timeline for example, Link dies by Ganon's hand, and Zelda has to seal Ganon and the Triforce away with help of the 6 Sages. Impa, being one of them. So in this way, Impa and Zelda / Sheik are equals, or at least.. Impa and OoT Zelda are equal. Then, Impa becomes a Sage again in ALBW, making her position as a Sage 'fixed' whenever she appears and Sages are a part of the plot. Only Zelda herself did this so far.

Then there's obviously her role in Skyward Sword, which is the most important and influential role of her overal. And of course, the design she'd be based of if she was to appear in Smash. Her Skyward Sword role is especially noticable, as it's the whole beginning of Zelda, and Impa, was serving even Hylia -Zelda's first incaration, as a Goddess!- and she was even her hand-picked warrior! This is easily the biggest position as a Zelda character aside from Link and Zelda themselves. And of course Ganon. So Impa easily comes 4th when it comes to most important Zelda character. She also had a double role in Skyward Sword, and her younger form was mostly thought of as 'Impa' throughout the story, even till the final Boss. Impa being 'Granny' was by far a bigger mind **** than Zelda being Sheik. And Impa even was the first Sage to seal away the Triforce when Link and Zelda went back to the future.

I really don't see how people who claim to know the Zelda franchise don't see Impa as an important character, yet continue to praise Tingle and Tetra for their roles, all which where far less influential than Impa's roles, especially in Skyward Sword. I'm quite certain that Impa is truely the only possible newcomer for a Zelda character. And if not now, surely the next time. Especially if she where to be in Zelda Wii U, or another important new Zelda game. I could see her popularity skyrocket if that would happen. Easily pushing her to one of the more popular new additions in general.

Hope I informed you well enough.

 

[Baskerville]

Tomorrow's Nintendo Direct...

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So excited...

Too much hype...

Going insane....

IMPA IS A GOOD IDEA!

....

Never getting that hyped again....

 

[Mega Bidoof]

So is everyone just staring at their computer for a whole day until the direct comes on, and getting ready to come here to complain when we get disappointed as usual? Or is it just me.

Anyway, a quick question: if Dr. Mario returned as a full playable character, ad he had his own alternate costume, who would it be?

 

[Diddy Kong]

IMPA IS A GOOD IDEA!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

To be honest, Impa would be pretty cool.

As a fifth Zelda slot.

 

[Diddy Kong]

To be honest, Impa would be pretty cool.

As a fifth Zelda slot.

Am also down with that, it's no BIG deal if Sheik stays just... I'd actually prefer Zelda to not be overshadowed by ironically, her disguise alter-ego. And I think it's impossible for Sakurai to balance Zelda / Sheik if he keeps insisting on the whole 'implied playstyle' thing. If they both return though, Sheik > Zelda in tiers. I'll give you that much.

I also find Sheik to be literally the weakest link in the chain that is Smash Bros. characters. Even the retro characters hold more significance outside of the Ice Climbers maybe (who where added for the purpose of being retro though). One cannot deny that Sheik has only stayed in Brawl cause she was paired with Zelda. Sakurai even went as far as to state a reason she was in Brawl on her Brawl Dojo page...

Honestly, it's just an exploded pet peeve. I see Impa as a better choice than Sheik altogheter cause:

1) Own moveset potential, Sage Sheikah with barriers? Cool as ****.
2) Could replace Sheik as a separate character, with her moveset but alterations a la ->
3) Could even serve as a duo character with SS Zelda cause Impa is her guardian who never left her side.

I just see far more appeal in Impa, and I'd like to avoid '**** DIS SHEET, SHIEK CLONE!' mentality if Impa was added alongside Sheik to. Also, as stated before; balance.

 

[Frostwraith]

Diddy Kong and his Impa nonsense again... >_>

Why does Impa HAVE to replace Sheik, moveset included, instead of being a separate character with unique moves?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I really want Sheik to return.

Impa isn't one of my most wanted characteres, (I want Toon Zelda/Tetra much more) but I wouldn't mind it if Impa got in.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Diddy Kong and his Impa nonsense again... >_>

Why does Impa HAVE to replace Sheik, moveset included, instead of being a separate character with unique moves?

Maybe because "Sakurai wants each character to be distinct.", I guess.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Diddy Kong and his Impa nonsense again... >_>

Why does Impa HAVE to replace Sheik, moveset included, instead of being a separate character with unique moves?

Editted my last post.

 

[Frostwraith]

Maybe because "Sakurai wants each character to be distinct.", I guess.

Making every character distinct. That was exactly my point on WHY Impa shouldn't be a replacement for Sheik, just for the sake of relevance.

Then again, I am beating a dead horse. My patience for this subject has ended long ago.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I just find it funny that just about any replacement is more accepted than Impa -> Sheik.

How many people had trouble with Toon Link in Brawl over Young Link?
How many would have trouble with Plusle & Minun over Pichu?

Why is it accepted to say that Ike might probably be replaced?
Why is it accepted when someone says Ganon should take Ganondorf's spot?

Tell me why a new generation Pokémon Trainer over the current one is more acceptable than Impa?
How some even say to a Diddy & Dixie Kong tagteam: 'Good idea bro'?
Even Wolf and Falco being sacrifised for Krystal is cool with some.

I think this is truely hypocritical. And untill I find myself in an equal spot, Impa propaganda won't stop.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

hey mates, got back from a trip a few hours ago so wh-

Impa propaganda won't stop.

. . .
. . .

I should have had an extended stay . . . .

 

[Mega Bidoof]

So is everyone just staring at their computer for a whole day until the direct comes on, and getting ready to come here to complain when we get disappointed as usual? Or is it just me.

Anyway, a quick question: if Dr. Mario returned as a full playable character, ad he had his own alternate costume, who would it be?

*asks a question about Dr. Mario*
*gets overshadowed by ANOTHER Impa conversation.*

 

[Diddy Kong]

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I should have had an extended stay . . . .

No, stay! We can have another heated Corn vs Rye debate! I mean, everyone loves those types of debates, right?

 

[Sharkarat]

I do think Impa is the most likely "true" zelda Newcomer.
Tingle would be more comparable to Yoshi. Not the next in line in the main series, but could get in as his own thing.
And I support both of them, as long as Impa doesn't replace Sheik.

Am also down with that, it's no BIG deal if Sheik stays just... I'd actually prefer Zelda to not be overshadowed by ironically, her disguise alter-ego. And I think it's impossible for Sakurai to balance Zelda / Sheik if he keeps insisting on the whole 'implied playstyle' thing. If they both return though, Sheik > Zelda in tiers. I'll give you that much.

Agree, their balancing need some Improvements.

I also find Sheik to be literally the weakest link in the chain that is Smash Bros. characters. Even the retro characters hold more significance outside of the Ice Climbers maybe (who where added for the purpose of being retro though). One cannot deny that Sheik has only stayed in Brawl cause she was paired with Zelda. Sakurai even went as far as to state a reason she was in Brawl on her Brawl Dojo page...

Alternate forms/Disguises is one of Zelda's more reoccurring traits other than light arrows & magic. So it make sence keeping her even without Sheik herself being in more main games.

I just see far more appeal in Impa, and I'd like to avoid '**** DIS SHEET, SHIEK CLONE!' mentality if Impa was added alongside Sheik to. Also, as stated before; balance.

If her specials are like your ideas I don't think we'll see much clone complaints.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

It looks like Impa is crying.
Because she is unlikely and not unique and probably the ******iest ***** in the ******* topped with a ****** with an abnormally large pile of ****** with a *****ing ***** which can be place inside of my ******* if you rapidly tap the A button while ******ing your *****ing mom's ****** as long as the ***** is placed on top the the fence in the ********** side of West Dakota if it is 27.65 degrees Fahrenheit and you are ******ing the ****** at 10:69 AM!

And that was my Saturn impression!
What do you think everyone?

 

[Diddy Kong]

It looks like Impa is crying.
Because she is unlikely and not unique and probably the ******iest ***** in the ******* topped with a ****** with an abnormally large pile of ****** with a *****ing ***** which can be place inside of my ******* if you rapidly tap the A button while ******ing your *****ing mom's ****** as long as the ***** is placed on top the the fence in the ********** side of West Dakota if it is 27.65 degrees Fahrenheit and you are ******ing the ****** at 10:69 AM!

And that was my Saturn impression!
What do you think everyone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo

I do think Impa is the most likely "true" zelda Newcomer.
Tingle would be more comparable to Yoshi. Not the next in line in the main series, but could get in as his own thing.
And I support both of them, as long as Impa doesn't replace Sheik.

Agree, their balancing need some Improvements.

Alternate forms/Disguises is one of Zelda's more reoccurring traits other than light arrows & magic. So it make sence keeping her even without Sheik herself being in more main games.
If her specials are like your ideas I don't think we'll see much clone complaints.

Clone complaints are always gonna happen. Just look at Wolf. I think two of his specials already look significantly different than Fox, being his Side and Up B moves. Only the Reflector would I call a true clone move, as his Blaster is so obviously different...

Think Impa is more likely than Tingle however.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo

So Impa either killed someone even before you saved Zelda in the Earth Temple, she was a prisoner for one year, or she was ***** once.

Seems legit.

And I don't actually mean what I said, read the last line of that post.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So Impa either killed someone even before you saved Zelda in the Earth Temple, she was a prisoner for one year, or she was ***** once.

Seems legit.

And I don't actually mean what I said, read the last line of that post.

Servant of the Goddess Hylia. She fought in a major war mentoined in Skyward Sword's opening.

Said it before but...

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Servant of the Goddess Hylia. She fought in a major war mentoined in Skyward Sword's opening.

Said it before but...

She fought against Happy Mask salesman who was on Demises side as seen in the intro

 

[KingofPhantoms]

It looks like Impa is crying.
Because she is unlikely and not unique and probably the ******iest ***** in the ******* topped with a ****** with an abnormally large pile of ****** with a *****ing ***** which can be place inside of my ******* if you rapidly tap the A button while ******ing your *****ing mom's ****** as long as the ***** is placed on top the the fence in the ********** side of West Dakota if it is 27.65 degrees Fahrenheit and you are ******ing the ****** at 10:69 AM!

And that was my Saturn impression!
What do you think everyone?

When Saturn gets here:

 

[Seraphim.]

What did I even walk into...