Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[FlareHabanero]

Roy was picked because the fire properties of the Sword of Seals made him stand out more compared to Leif, and hypothetically other choices like Seliph and Alm.

Though somewhat ironically, said fire properties weren't emphasized in animations. Only 4 attacks had fire, and they were mostly cheaply tacked on fluff.

 

[BKupa666]

Though somewhat ironically, said fire properties weren't emphasized in animations. Only 4 attacks had fire, and they were mostly cheaply tacked on fluff.

Tacked on fluff is enough to make people claim Ganondorf has a moveset that accurately represents the extent of his magical mastery.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Roy was picked to promote the new upcoming FE game.

He wasn't actually.

He was picked because he was the only one who stood out from Marth.

 

[PLATINUM7]

He wasn't actually.

He was picked because he was the only one who stood out from Marth.

Somebody should really fix up this page on Smash Wiki then.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Roy

I looked up the Melee website to see if Sakurai explained why Roy was included. This is the best google translate can do.
Entered the war as a model Sort character of Mars, is a hero character of "Fire Emblem - (GBA) - Sword of the seal." But (January 2002) the time this document has been published yet, this title has not been released. On the contrary, the per one of the concept. In Smash Bros. characters in many appeared, it is the character of soft greeting released only now. But, do not worry. Even without knowing the original charm of a character because it becomes more attractive, it will be that you'll love soon. Roy, I thought that it was "It's immature, but quality sword there is a potential" and embodies as compared to Mars, and try to produce a youth. There is a vibrant showy partially, and it is the nature of weakness stands out partially. It seems to usually the same skill and Mars, but, in fact, swing of the sword has become the late All in all.Contrary to Mars, it is better to attack in closer to the base of the sword than to attack at the tip of the sword will be stronger attack. Let's pounding close. It should be noted that, in the air or no attack power, fall in or had accelerated, aerial combat is generally weak.

The link: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/0115/index.html

 

[Shorts]

I want Daisy to be revealed and **** everyone up.

 

[BKupa666]

If only "He promotes a new game!" wasn't catchier than "Well, actually, he was chosen because Sakurai liked his nice sword and preferred Roy's sword to the swords of these other lords," we'd have a lot less of the Chrom vs. Roy spat that currently exists...maybe no substantial Chrom support at all, actually.

 

[Shorts]

If only "He promotes a new game!" wasn't catchier than "Well, actually, he was chosen because Sakurai liked his nice sword and preferred Roy's sword to the swords of these other lords," we'd have a lot less of the Chrom vs. Roy spat that currently exists...maybe no substantial Chrom support at all, actually.

I don't even know how to tell you how wrong that is. Believe it or not, there are a large number of people who like Chrom. It's super cool because they actually like him for who he is because they've ya know, played the game he originates from. Roy's best chances are being added as the 4th FE character. Chrom will be in Smash bros. If Ike was a no brainer, Chrom definitely is.

Chrom, Dixie, and Mewtwo are the Shorts' picks. Add LM, Paccy, and Miis to Villager, Miss Fit, and Megaman and you got yourself more than half a roster.

Makes ya sad don't it?

 

[Deleted member]

*snickers*

Just as I predicted, Dedenne is being marketed alongside Pika and the token Starters if the Pikachu Short accompanying the next movie is to go by.
Rare for a PikaClone these days.

EDIT: Not that it means anything. Unless Sakurai pulls a Pichu.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Man am I bored

 

[BKupa666]

I don't even know how to tell you how wrong that is. Believe it or not, there are a large number of people who like Chrom. It's super cool because they actually like him for who he is because they've ya know, played the game he originates from. Roy's best chances are being added as the 4th FE character. Chrom will be in Smash bros. If Ike was a no brainer, Chrom definitely is.

Chrom, Dixie, and Mewtwo are the Shorts' picks. Add LM, Paccy, and Miis to Villager, Miss Fit, and Megaman and you got yourself more than half a roster.

Makes ya sad don't it?

I think my wording eluded you...I said, "no substantial support." A few people would want him out of liking the character, sure, but there wouldn't be this massive firestorm of people seeing he's in a new game and immediately putting him on the level of goddamn Mewtwo because of what's become a deep-seated kneejerk reaction.

 

[Shorts]

I'm putting him on Mewtwo's level because of the reasoning behind why Ike was picked, and what happened to Roy in Brawl. Ike was suggested. (Like Roy was in Melee) Ike and Chrom are both worldwide released characters which is a plus as well. Chrom is the new dude, who's in the same seat that Ike was in Pre-Brawl. I don't really see a reason to not think Chrom will be included. I also don't see a reason to believe Roy will be anything more than what he was in Brawl. I don't see Roy getting in without Chrom getting in. But why I think Chrom is getting isn't all that important. Just it's silly to say he doesn't have a substantial support group. . It's like just closing your eyes and saying "No support see". Look at his thread. Look at my polls. He's like 5th most wanted newcomer over at 4chan, and like 10th most wanted in my general poll. He's got fans.

Actually, I'll bring this up here. Someone may find it interesting.



From right to left, going down these are the top 25 choices from 4chan (right) and Every other Smash community (left)

YMewtwo Represents a 6th Generation Pokemon Slot, and Sonic Represents a second character from the Sonic series. What this says to me, is mostly that 4chan puts much more value on 3rd parties than adding remaining Nintendo choices. Which isn't surprising. I will say the results for 4chan are subject to change as more votes come in, but the "Smash Community general" is pretty stable. (4chan has about 300 votes, SCG has about 2400)

The communities I polled were: SWF, IGN, Reddit, GamFAQs, Tumblr, Deviantart, ZeldaInformer, NintendoLife, NeoGAF, NeoSeeker, SerenasForest, Serebii, Starmen, Cutstuff, Wiichat and others I can't name right off the top of my head.

OH AND 4CHAN LOVES WONDER RED. He wasn't an option on my poll, but I believe he would be to 25 material.

 

[Deleted member]

Chrom being in the same seat as Ike implies he has something special that will interest Sakurai like Ike's BFS did back in '05.

Care to explain what Chrom has that many of us have yet to figure out?

 

[BKupa666]

In that case, I believe you must be underrating Mewtwo, but anyway, nothing I said above was directly related to character chances. I claimed it is a pity that the vast majority of the fanbase, including SmashWiki, believes that Roy was added solely on a promotional basis. Because of that, they interpreted Ike's inclusion the same way despite his inclusion not being nearly that simple, and are now looking at Chrom as though there's a two game precedent of the most recent lord being added solely because he is recent, when, again, it's not nearly that simple. If that perspective didn't exist, this thread might not be constantly torn asunder by eye-wateringly bland Chrom vs. Roy discussions on a near-daily basis.

 

[Inawordyes]

Popularity.

Roy was chosen over Leif during Melee's development (consider that, IIRC, IS suggested Leif but Sakurai went with Roy because he saw some of his game) because Sakurai liked his character and it would also help to promote his then-upcoming game. Ike was chosen for being a popular character from a game that had already released. Chrom is a popular character from a game that has already released as well, and all three are likely to be chosen as well due to their recency to the games they appeared in.

The difference between Ike and Chrom and Roy is that Ike and Chrom are popular because of their characters. Roy is popular because he appeared in Melee and is a veteran. So what Chrom has is the same as what Ike has - relevance and a fanbase that was started outside of Super Smash Bros. Just because Chrom is another blue-haired swordsman does not mean that he will play like Marth or Ike - consider that Marth and Ike play completely differently from each other. Chrom has access to Spears, something that has not been seen from a FE character yet - and as a whole has not been seen in Super Smash Bros. yet (the only other contender for that being Waddle Dee). Comparing Chrom and Roy is where everybody is getting mixed up, because they think that one is going to cost the Smash life of the other, and that they would both fill the same role, that of a Marth semi-clone.

That would be what, in my opinion, 'many of you have yet to figure out', that Chrom and Roy are not the same, they have different reasons to get into SM4SH and they would play completely differently from each other and from Marth and Ike, and they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[PLATINUM7]

In that case, I believe you must be underrating Mewtwo, but anyway, nothing I said above was directly related to character chances. I claimed it is a pity that the vast majority of the fanbase, including SmashWiki, believes that Roy was added solely on a promotional basis. Because of that, they interpreted Ike's inclusion the same way despite his inclusion not being nearly that simple, and are now looking at Chrom as though there's a two game precedent of the most recent lord being added solely because he is recent, when, again, it's not nearly that simple. If that perspective didn't exist, this thread might not be constantly torn asunder by eye-wateringly bland Chrom vs. Roy discussions on a near-daily basis.

From what I can understand from the quote on Smabura-Ken, the upcoming FE promoted Roy's inclusion, more than him promoting the game

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Chrom being in the same seat as Ike implies he has something special that will interest Sakurai like Ike's BFS did back in '05.

Care to explain what Chrom has that many of us have yet to figure out?

Before anybody brings up Lucina, I will say he has more going for him than she does.

 

[Shorts]

Chrom being in the same seat as Ike implies he has something special that will interest Sakurai like Ike's BFS did back in '05.

Care to explain what Chrom has that many of us have yet to figure out?

Can't he use like spears, swords, and axes or something? Boom. Something interesting.

I don't know what Sakurai will find interesting about Chrom because I'm not Sakurai. I do know Chrom is a character people like, and enjoy. He also happens to be the main character of the installment of the franchise that saved it from being put to bed for a good amount of time. And, he has a worldwide released game which is always a plus for someone. Besides, it's Sakurai, he thinks Fox-Falco-Wolf are cool the way they are. He found things interesting about each of them, and also see's them as very different characters. He could find anything he digs about Chrom and go with it. It's not like he's afraid to make characters play similarly. Also, Roy happens to be that exact kind of character. Roy also was chosen because of fire. Another instance of real basic reasoning for choosing a character. Hell, Roy had no fans and no one knew who he was and still he was included.

So, I don't know, but it's not like a character has to scream "UNIQUE MOVESET / ORIGINALITY" to be included. Sakurai just has to find something likeable/reason to add them.

 

[Deleted member]

@Inawordyes:
You seem to have missed the point of the question.

Sakurai found interest in Roy because......fire sword.
Sakurai found interest in Ike because.....thick heavy sword.
Sakurai will find interest in Chrom because......*Fill in the blank*?

Chrom's "popularity" isn't going to matter if Sakurai doesn't find anything appealing about him. It was neither popularity nor relevance that got Roy and Ike in, it was what Sakurai saw of them.


EDIT:
@Shortie:
"Can't he use like spears, swords, and axes or something? Boom. Something interesting."
Resorting to generic ability to use different weapon types, something Ike was capable of doing in Radiant Dawn (Had a special sword AND a special axe), is not likely to cut it.
And yes, originality DOES make a big case for Smash inclusion, as Sakurai has addressed numerous times.
*in before last minute and low priority clones are brought up*

 

[Inawordyes]

So, I don't know, but it's not like a character has to scream "UNIQUE MOVESET / ORIGINALITY" to be included.

To add on this, a character can have a unique style and still be adapted to something less-than-original - case in point: Roy and Ganondorf. Or they can have little originality in their games but be adapted to something entirely different completely - Captain Falcon, Fox, and Wii Fit Trainer, as example.

So Chrom can be unique or he can be not-so-unique, but either way, if Sakurai thinks Chrom is a good addition, then he will add him and make something of him, whether that's something completely unique or not-so-much - but most importantly, regardless of if that uniqueness isn't so present in Chrom within his own game (which it is, mind you, but as a general example for any potential character).

@Inawordyes:
You seem to have missed the point of the question.

Sakurai found interest in Roy because......fire sword.
Sakurai found interest in Ike because.....thick heavy sword.
Sakurai will find interest in Chrom because......*Fill in the blank*?


Chrom's "popularity" isn't going to matter if Sakurai doesn't find anything appealing about him. It was neither popularity nor relevance that got Roy and Ike in, it was what Sakurai saw of them.

So it seems that I have.

Sakurai can potential find interest in Chrom because...... Lance, Spears, Axes, potential Tag-Team duo mechanic with Lucina. He wanted Roy because of the fire, he wanted Ike because of his giant sword. He can want Chrom because of the fact that he can utilize weapons that the other three can't. There's your interest (much as Shortie said). But also like Shortie said, we aren't Sakurai so we don't know and can't know what he will find interesting in Chrom. So using it as an excuse to say that Chrom won't be in is a very slippery slope, albeit a partially-justified one considering past example (but this is Sakurai, after all, and we have no way of predicting what he will do).

 

[Shorts]

Chrom's "popularity" isn't going to matter if Sakurai doesn't find anything appealing about him. It was neither popularity nor relevance that got Roy and Ike in, it was what Sakurai saw of them.

The fact that he appeals to people is appealing.

I don't know how he will end up playing, but it's not like Roy was exactly an amazing addition in terms of innovative move sets.

 

[BKupa666]

It is pertinent to keep in mind that, just because a character with resemblances to another has the potential to use some weapon or attack, doesn't mean they will.

all say hello.

Personally, independent of likelihood, "I don't know what Sakurai will do with this generic character to make him unique, but he'll definitely make him unique" isn't a particularly effective way to sell a character as a worthy inclusion, especially when 'unique' is often synonymous with 'these two veterans from the same series, combined.'

 

[Shorts]

Personally, independent of likelihood, "I don't know what Sakurai will do with this generic character to make him unique, but he'll definitely make him unique" isn't a particularly effective way to sell a character as a worthy inclusion, especially when 'unique' is often synonymous with 'these two veterans from the same series, combined.'

Dude. Roy is slow fire Marth.

Do you think characters need to be completely unique to be included?

It just feels like you guys are throwing a fit over Chrom, really. Roy had nothing but Fire going for him, and he still was included. Chrom HAS THINGS GOING FOR HIM.

 

[Deleted member]

"The fact he appeals to people is appealing".

.....
This is where I take my leave before I bash my skull into the keyboard.

 

[BKupa666]

Dude. Roy is slow fire Marth.

Do you think characters need to be completely unique to be included?

It just feels like you guys are throwing a fit over Chrom, really. Roy had nothing but Fire going for him, and he still was included. Chrom HAS THINGS GOING FOR HIM.

This is the part where I don't give a s*** about Roy...and also where I point out that comparing Chrom to a last-minute slow fire Marth isn't exactly a ringing endorsement either.

 

[Shorts]

I don't even like Chrom. You're all really.. just being haters. Really.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Roy was really only included because Sakurai needed an easy clone, fire or not he would never have been included unless he had the clone potential, so I don't really think he makes for a good argument.

Ike on the other hand is a better argument.

As for Chrom, eh, who knows. If Sakurai wants him to be unique he sure will find a way to make him unique, no matter if he has to borrow attacks that aren't his own. It all depends on if Sakurai thinks he can make a good addition or not.

 

[Deleted member]

>Comes back to see if discussion is decent again
>Is labeled a "hater"
>Is neutral on both Roy and Chrom
>Formerly defended Chrom as an option

...Yeah. I'm a hater for seeing the situation for how it really is. Never change.

 

[Shorts]

You asked for something that would make him interesting. You're asking for something that truthfully doesn't matter. What WE think makes an interesting character doesn't for Sakurai.

Look at Ganondorf or Falcon. Or Lucas and Ness. They're similar, despite having so much that could differentiate them. Does it matter? No. So, what I'm saying is (And why I keep bringing up how lame Roy is, someone you said "Has something" despite that something being so much less than what Chrom could do) it doesn't matter that much. At this point, Sakurai is looking at STYLES of characters, when he's talking about unqiue. Not neccisarily move sets. Something about them being unique. Like how he see's the SF crew. They're all stemming from the same move set, but are seen by Sakurai as unique.

Chrom doesn't NEED anything in reality. But, we gave you options like using the various weapons, or maybe a tag team option since that was introduced in his game. ****, all Sakurai has to do to make him "unique" in his eyes is have him swing his sword differently than Marth and Ike... SOMETIMES. And why is that all he needs to do? Because a lot of people like Chrom. He has a good sized following. Not only that but his game was a worldwide release which is something pretty big for a Fire Emblem character. He's known worldwide, which a lot of prior FE characters are not. Lastly, he's the main protagonist of the most recent FE title, that did pretty well. We have a good amount of characters like Lucas and Ganondorf in Brawl, that weren't last minute clones, and aren't completely unique. So he wouldn't be the first character to be added like this. So, long story short Chrom could be completely unique in our eyes. Chrom only has to be unique in Sakurai's eyes. And Chrom has a strong case for him regardless of whether or not anyone personally feels he has interesting move set potential.

 

[Starbound]

Ugh Fire Emblem.

By the way, SSB4 Marth is secretly an alternate costume (ala Male Wii Fit Trainer) for Lucina.

...runs

 

[Deleted member]

Point to me where I was talking movesets.

Both the likes of Roy and Chrom are pretty much **** in the "unique moveset" department to the point one would have to try to force them to stand out such as expanding on the fire aspect of Roy's sword or make Chrom use a lance for an attack or two.

The context in which I am speaking is of style/niche. Take Marth for example.
He had jack for moves directly from his games. But Sakurai saw an opportunity to make him an all-sword fighter with quick and elegant strikes, which was unheard of back when Marth was in Smash given that the only swordsman was Link before him.
When Sakurai was looking for possible clones, Roy stood out from the other available options because of his special sword that could ignite into flame.

Brawl comes around, Sakurai wants to include a newer character since the series had expanded quite a bit since Melee. He's given Ike as a suggestion by Intelligent Systems.
He sees the opportunity to make a stark contrast to Marth's style (which would be slow and rough) using Ike's thick and heavy sword as the highlight and he rolls with it.

Let's fast-forward to now.
We have Chrom. Who gives off the impression of a "fast Ike" and a "slow Marth" at the same time. Nothing special.
The one thing you seem to emphasize is his "ability" to use a weapon other than a sword, a lance. Big deal; it's not like it's a highlight of his. And if Sakurai really wanted a lance/spear/javelin fighter, there's the option of Waddle Dee from Kirby, who has a whole style catered to it rather than a swordsman like Chrom. It's also not like it's a unique trait to him either; Ike's able to use an axe as well as his sword, and near everyone is capable of using multiple types of weapons in Awakening, including the Avatar, the true protagonist of the game. Hell, the Avatar right off the bat has a longsword (which is essentially what type of sword Chrom has) and magic.

Lucas and Ganondorf are also horrible examples, but I'm too frigging tired to continue this post.
I'll finish up tomorrow if you don't resort to insulting me and/or blatantly disregard what I say first.

 

[Shorts]

I'm going to blantantly disregard what you've said.

Because it's gay.

I did both, see?

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I'm going to blantantly disregard what you've said.

Because it's gay.

I did both, see?

It's both fake and gay.

Fraudulent and joyous.

----

 

[Shorts]

So, I like Micaiah, and Eirikah...

 

[Layupfreak]

It's both fake and gay.

Fraudulent and joyous.

Its both fake and gay.

Fallacious and Homophile

 

[Depressed Gengar]

This thread's up to it's usual nonsense.

I want Daisy to be revealed and **** everyone up.

Nope. I would get so hyped I would explode.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

As for Chrom, eh, who knows. If Sakurai wants him to be unique he sure will find a way to make him unique, no matter if he has to borrow attacks that aren't his own. It all depends on if Sakurai thinks he can make a good addition or not.

I completely agree with this.

In that case, I believe you must be underrating Mewtwo, but anyway, nothing I said above was directly related to character chances. I claimed it is a pity that the vast majority of the fanbase, including SmashWiki, believes that Roy was added solely on a promotional basis. Because of that, they interpreted Ike's inclusion the same way despite his inclusion not being nearly that simple, and are now looking at Chrom as though there's a two game precedent of the most recent lord being added solely because he is recent, when, again, it's not nearly that simple. If that perspective didn't exist, this thread might not be constantly torn asunder by eye-wateringly bland Chrom vs. Roy discussions on a near-daily basis.

Funny thing is, if the Avatar ended up making it in to this game and Chrom didn't, it still wouldn't break the "pattern" of there always being the newest FE guy in the roster no matter what, with people acting as if that alone would make them shoo-ins. The only way in which that "pattern" would be broken is if there was no FE newcomer from Awakening, which... doesn't seems to be likely especially as the success of that game saved the franchise.

 

[Gune]

So, I like Micaiah, and Eirikah...

Who are they?

 

[Frostwraith]

I think the Avatar would be a better choice than Chrom. Still, I wouldn't mind Chrom being in.
If it were up to me, I'd keep Marth, Roy and Ike as the FE characters. Each could have a different style too: Marth for the fast and elegant style, Ike for the slow and rough style and Roy having a magical weapon.

Golden makes some good points about Chrom. He really looks like a mixture between Marth and Ike regarding sword style and possibly the reason why he's seen as bland. It's an understandable viewpoint, although I don't think it should warrant so much hate towards him nor the overreaction from Chrom fans.

And I'm not even taking Shortie seriously when he purposely disregards the other's arguments for the sake of disregarding them.

 

[Cobalsh]

Micaiah comes from Ike's game and Eirikah comes from Lyn's.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Actually, Eirika comes from a different game than that which Lyn is in.