Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[FlareHabanero]

NOTHING is more pathetic than Starfy's AT.

Roy's down aerial.

 

[Morbi]

done:

[collapse=along with one of my own]
View attachment 4798
[/collapse]

I prefer the Jigglypuff with the M249... if you know what I am saying!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ganondorf doesn't need a sword, he needs magic, and legitimate magic, not a few sparkly afterthoughts tacked onto Falcon's attacks.

Akumadorf indeed please!

 

[Morbi]

I was talking about Brawl, since we are speculating what changes he will have from Brawl's Ganondorf.



I was saying Ganondorf is so bad no one can be good with him. He needs a hell lot of buffs and ABSOLUTELY NO nerfs to be good.

Ganon is actually great at FFA, the tier list is based on competitive play. In public matches, he is a beast.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Same with Link. Link still sucks badly to though. Ike is another character that's better in FFA than 1 vs 1, but he's significantly better than both Link and Ganondorf.

Anyway, I just wanted to post this:

I'm voting for swordless-Ganondorf to. Just... Don't give him a worse Falcon Punch, and an useless Falcon Kick as Special Moves. That's all I'm asking for. I would also 100% appriciate it if his Smashes became useful, and his ridiculous Up Tilt became... Something else.

 

[BKupa666]

Holy marginf**k, Batm...err, Diddy!

I kind of chuckle a bit when people claim Ganondorf shouldn't change at all because that image exists. That image looks like his F-Air, so...don't change his F-Air? It's original anyway, and magic balls wouldn't work with that input to boot.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Really, there are quite some moves I wouldn't want changed at all from Ganondorf's moveset!

First of all: All Aerials aside from the useless Neutral Air.
Side B
Up B
Jab
All throws to, they're pretty cool but can use a few buffs.

That's plenty of moves really...

 

[TheLastJinjo]

done:

[collapse=along with one of my own]
View attachment 4798
[/collapse]

 

[chaoswafflez04]

All I want is a de-cloned Ganondorf that isn't just a Falcon reskin with a different voice, heavier weight, slower speed, and a "dark magic" effect instead of the fire effect that made the Falcon Punch what it is today.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Hey guys! There's an awesome new thread around that basicly makes you become Sakurai! You should check it ou!
http://smashboards.com/threads/forum-game-if-i-were-sakurai.343125/


Shameless self-promotion.

 

[N3ON]

I don't understand how Sakurai can think Wario deserves more than being a Mario clone, which at least makes sense, but the King of Darkness deserves no better than being a glorified reskin of a character completely unrelated and whose moveset was entirely fabricated in the first place, just because they both look somewhat close to how people are actually supposed to look like.

We don't need any more Zelda clones or semi-clones. We don't need Toon Zelda. What we do need is for the main antagonist of one of Nintendo's biggest series to cease being treated like he's still an afterthought.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Wow, you go play Skyrim for a few hours and you just lose track of the time...Yeesh.

I'm voting for swordless-Ganondorf to. Just... Don't give him a worse Falcon Punch, and an useless Falcon Kick as Special Moves. That's all I'm asking for. I would also 100% appriciate it if his Smashes became useful, and his ridiculous Up Tilt became... Something else.

Well, he doesn't need to be purely Sword-based, but it should be used at least somewhat...seeing as this is a big part of his character now.

For example...I made this moveset:

Spoiler

Ganondorf:

Standard A Combo: Dark Palm (8%)
Forward + A: Dark Magic Spark (14%)
Up + A: Volcano Kick (27%)
Down + A: Cape Sweep: (12%)
Dash Attack: Dark Sword (11%)

Aerial Attacks:

Neutral A: Darkness Wave (16%)
Forward + A: Guillotine Slash (18%)
Up + A: Electric Burst (14%)
Back + A: Magic Pulse (14%)
Down + A: Dark Stomp (22%)

Smash Attacks:

Forward Smash: Warlock’s Blade (34%)
Up Smash: Magic Blast (30%)
Down Smash: Dark Tremor (28%)

Grab/Throws:

Grab: Grab with one hand
Pummel: Knees the opponent (4%)
Forward Throw: Charges his fist with dark energy and punches the opponent away with a burst of dark magic (10%)
Up Throw: Throws the opponent up along with a burst of electric magic (11%)
Down Throw: Smashes the opponent headfirst into the ground (7%)
Back Throw: Grabs the opponent with the end of his sword and flips them over his head, smashing both them and his sword into the ground behind him) (9%)

Special Moves:

Standard Special: Dark Magic (15-30% total)
Side Special: Flame Choke (11%)
Up Special: Warlock Levitation (Does No Damage, disperses a wave of energy upon finishing)
Down Special: Earthquake Fist (13-28% depending on how close you are)
Final Smash: Beast Ganon (Petrify + 45% damage, can instantly kill a majority of the smaller enemies)

BIGGER BEEEEEWBZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Would you kindly back off.

 

[Deleted member]

@Diddy
You got to keep the Sparta Kick and Volcano Kick too, though...

I don't understand how Sakurai can think Wario deserves more than being a Mario clone, which at least makes sense, but the King of Darkness deserves no better than being a glorified reskin of a character completely unrelated and whose moveset was entirely fabricated in the first place, just because they both look somewhat close to how people are actually supposed to look like.

One had little to work with at the time other than darkness, power, and electric balls, the other had his own series with his own abilities to break away from the "copy" stigma that making him a clone would send him back to.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I don't give two flying ****s about the Sparta Kick anymore. Unless it's TP Ganondorf, then it's all cool I suppose.

Volcano Kick can do die in a flame hotter than the hottest inferno ever.

@ Hotfeet: How am I supposed to read what Ganondorf actually does in your moveset if you only just bothered naming the moves, and not describe what they actually do?

Wat is dis? Pogeyman?

 

[Deleted member]

Seeing as we're most likely getting TP Ganondorf again, might as well be accepting of Sparta Kick.

 

[Morbi]

Well, someone on the forums reminded me of the Black Friday deal in regards to Xenoblade... so yeah... expect me to start predicting Shulk soon.

 

[Diddy Kong]

TP Ganondorf was worst Ganondorf.

I am personally hoping for either Ocarina of Time Ganondorf, or like Link has it, a multiple appearance mixed Ganondorf.

DISREGARD THE ESTABLISHMENT!

Well, someone on the forums reminded me of the Black Friday deal in regards to Xenoblade... so yeah... expect me to start predicting Shulk soon.

Send me a 3DS though while you're at it...

 

[Hotfeet444]

You know what? This just came to me that I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned yet. People want Physical fighting Ganondorf, people want Sword-fighting Ganondorf, it's a never-ending argument that will never be avoided. Regardless, how about we meet half-way and say this guy:

Spoiler

Now before you ask if I'm insane, no, I'm not saying replace Ganondorf with Ghirahim, that's just stupid. What I'm saying is that people have been designing movesets for Ghirahim that have revolved around a double-playstyle character in one, one with physical and magic attacks, and one with a sword, switching between the two with a Down + B or a Down taunt. Well...if that's the case, why not just take this kind of fighting style and give it to Ganondorf? That way everyone is happy as people get to play as Ganondorf with a sword, people keep their possible Falcondorf with more magic integrated, and Ganondorf remains true to his series. Why has nobody even suggested this yet, it's the best solution.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Oot Ganondorf is just cool in appearance and voice.
TP Ganon's laugh is just...odd.

You know what? This just came to me that I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned yet. People want Physical fighting Ganondorf, people want Sword-fighting Ganondorf, it's a never-ending argument that will never be avoided. Regardless, how about we meet half-way and say this guy:

Spoiler

Now before you ask if I'm insane, no, I'm not saying replace Ganondorf with Ghirahim, that's just stupid. What I'm saying is that people have been designing movesets for Ghirahim that have revolved around a double-playstyle character in one, one with physical and magic attacks, and one with a sword, switching between the two with a Down + B or a Down taunt. Well...if that's the case, why not just take this kind of fighting style and give it to Ganondorf? That way everyone is happy as people get to play as Ganondorf with a sword, people keep their possible Falcondorf with more magic integrated, and Ganondorf remains true to his series. Why has nobody even suggested this yet, it's the best solution.

Cool idea, but I still wish we had at least two Ganondorfs.
"Captain Ganon" from Oot using dark magic and physical moves and a luigified moveset, and Toon Ganondorf from WW using a speedy double sword based moveset.

Yes, I know they're the same person, but we had Young Oot Link and adult Oot Link in Melee, so...

-----

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn't really call Smash 4 Link a "mixed" Link.

He's pretty much TP Link with some brighter colors that somewhat resemble SS Link.

 

[Morbi]

I don't understand how Sakurai can think Wario deserves more than being a Mario clone, which at least makes sense, but the King of Darkness deserves no better than being a glorified reskin of a character completely unrelated and whose moveset was entirely fabricated in the first place, just because they both look somewhat close to how people are actually supposed to look like.

We don't need any more Zelda clones or semi-clones. We don't need Toon Zelda. What we do need is for the main antagonist of one of Nintendo's biggest series to cease being treated like he's still an afterthought.

Based on the circumstances, Ganondorf was only added because Sakurai could make him a clone. Wario was a front-runner, they are not really comparable. At the point when he was plausible to de-clone, Sakurai didn't want to segregate the player-base by changing him too much. As a Ganon main, there are several overt changes, he isn't just Captain Falcon reskin. Obviously they could do more, but he isn't a reskin.

 

[Starbound]

Exactly. Bowser Jr. has seniority, more appearances, a more active role in combat than Rosalina, and a larger display of powers. Where is Rosalina's advantage?

Well having bewbies got her into 3D World.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You know what? This just came to me that I'm surprised nobody else has mentioned yet. People want Physical fighting Ganondorf, people want Sword-fighting Ganondorf, it's a never-ending argument that will never be avoided. Regardless, how about we meet half-way and say this guy:

Spoiler

Now before you ask if I'm insane, no, I'm not saying replace Ganondorf with Ghirahim, that's just stupid. What I'm saying is that people have been designing movesets for Ghirahim that have revolved around a double-playstyle character in one, one with physical and magic attacks, and one with a sword, switching between the two with a Down + B or a Down taunt. Well...if that's the case, why not just take this kind of fighting style and give it to Ganondorf? That way everyone is happy as people get to play as Ganondorf with a sword, people keep their possible Falcondorf with more magic integrated, and Ganondorf remains true to his series. Why has nobody even suggested this yet, it's the best solution.

Only if:

 

[Hotfeet444]

Only if:

Jesus H. Christ, please collapse that thing. It's not Kraid you know, it doesn't need to be that big!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Only if you answer what the H stands for.

 

[N3ON]

One had little to work with at the time other than darkness, power, and electric balls, the other had his own series with his own abilities to break away from the "copy" stigma that making him a clone would send him back to.

But obviously if he has the stigma there is some logic behind it. As he was created to be an antagonistic parallel of Mario, him being a clone, while not something preferable, at least would be more understandable considering one was based on the other, at least they have more in common than just body type. While I agree it was for the best that Wario wasn't added in Melee only to be relegated to being a clone forever after, that doesn't mean just because Ganondorf didn't have a prior stigma he should have been subjected to an unoriginal moveset in subsequent games, which seems to be the directions he's stuck on. I'm not saying he couldn't have worked as a clone, because obviously he did, I'm just saying if Sakurai can justify not making Wario a clone because he "deserved more" he should've also applied that to Ganondorf as well, limitations or not. Ganondorf deserved to be unique just as much as Wario did.

 

[BKupa666]

No! You're not supposed to name Ganondorf's godawful U-Tilt "Volcano Kick"! Once you name it, you start getting attached to it!

 

[Hotfeet444]

Only if you answer what the H stands for.

Holy, what did you think it meant?

 

[FlareHabanero]

No! You're not supposed to name Ganondorf's godawful U-Tilt "Volcano Kick"! Once you name it, you start getting attached to it!

I call that attack Fluffykins.

 

[Morbi]

But obviously if he has the stigma there is some logic behind it. As he was created to be an antagonistic parallel of Mario, him being a clone, while not something preferable, at least would be more understandable considering one was based on the other, at least they have more in common than just body type. While I agree it was for the best that Wario wasn't added in Melee only to be relegated to being a clone forever after, that doesn't mean just because Ganondorf didn't have a prior stigma he should have been subjected to an unoriginal moveset in subsequent games, which seems to be the directions he's stuck on. I'm not saying he couldn't have worked as a clone, because obviously he did, I'm just saying if Sakurai can justify not making Wario a clone because he "deserved more" he should've also applied that to Ganondorf as well, limitations or not. Ganondorf deserved to be unique just as much as Wario did.

It isn't about the character, it is about the players.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Holy, what did you think it meant?

Hebrew
Hilbert
Hansen
Hannock
Hammock
Hannibal
Hippie
Happy
Himalaya
Hiccups
Hamster
Handballing
Handstanding
Hosting
Hamstring
Hotfeet
Hungry
Hotfeet444
Hearts
Hindering
Hachoo
Haber
Hasty
Habbitat
High
Highlife
Highty
Highjacking
Hairy
Harry
HairyHarry
Hugh
Hughbert
HEYMANYOUSTILLOWEMEMONEY
Hank
Hassan
Haiti
Hungary
Hong-Kong
Hindi
Hunting
Honey
Hotel

JUST WONDERING Y'KNOW!

 

[N3ON]

Based on the circumstances, Ganondorf was only added because Sakurai could make him a clone. Wario was a front-runner, they are not really comparable. At the point when he was plausible to de-clone, Sakurai didn't want to segregate the player-base by changing him too much. As a Ganon main, there are several overt changes, he isn't just Captain Falcon reskin. Obviously they could do more, but he isn't a reskin.

Wario wasn't a frontrunner for Melee's roster, there's nothing to indicate Sakurai ever had plans for him past considering him at one point to be a clone then thinking better of it. Based on the circumstances, Wario could've ended up in a situation very similar to Ganondorf if Sakurai was of a slightly different mindset. The main thing that makes them less comparable is there's more logic behind making Wario a clone of Mario than Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon. But they were both characters who didn't make the roster initially even though they were popular choices, but were later considered due to being similar to an existing character already on the roster, and were envisioned as slower, stronger versions of the original. The difference is one was spared being a clone while the other wasn't. In the situation leading up to their inclusion, they do seem fairly comparable to me.

It isn't about the character, it is about the players.

Might have to elaborate here.

 

[Deleted member]

But obviously if he has the stigma there is some logic behind it. As he was created to be an antagonist parallel of Mario, him being a clone, while not something preferable, at least would be more understandable considering one was based on the other, at least they have more in common that just body type. While I agree it was for the best that Wario wasn't added in Melee only to be relegated to being a clone forever after, that doesn't mean just because Ganondorf didn't have a prior stigma he should have been subjected to an unoriginal moveset in subsequent games, which seems to be the directions he's stuck on. I'm not saying he couldn't have worked as a clone, because obviously he did, I'm just saying if Sakurai can justify not making Wario a clone because he "deserved more" he should've also applied that to Ganondorf as well, limitations or not. Ganondorf deserved to be unique just as much as Wario did.

I'm willing to bet Sakurai didn't expect Ganondorf to be a recurring thing, considering how until OoT there was only blue pig Ganon. So it would be ok for Melee to have Ganondorf since Ganon in general was a top request while say, Brawl comes by and the true cerdo azul Ganon comes in instead. But then Ganon starts to rarely appear while Ganondorf gets more spotlight as well as some other non-Ganon villains, and when Ganon does appear, he's either bigger than Ridley or a four-legged wolf boar.

At the very least, Sakurai tried to make Ganondorf more distinct with Brawl, and if Luigi is anything to go by, Ganondorf will be made more distinct than he was in Brawl in gradual process.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Hebrew
JUST WONDERING Y'KNOW!

Well...in all honesty, I should have said Jesus 420 Christ after this:

Spoiler

I call that attack Fluffykins.

Really? I just nicknamed it Capcom. Why? Because when you see it you think it's going to be something awesome and then in the end it's nothing more than a giant heap of disappointment so you forget about it and move on, wondering why you wasted your time with it in the first place. Then you decide to try and give it another chance, but it just keeps disappointing you time after time. You then get sick of the move and never use it again.

 

[Morbi]

Wario wasn't a frontrunner for Melee's roster, there's nothing to indicate Sakurai ever had plans for him past considering him at one point to be a clone then thinking better of it. Based on the circumstances, Wario could've ended up in a situation very similar to Ganondorf if Sakurai was of a slightly different mindset. The main thing that makes them less comparable is there's more logic behind making Wario a clone of Mario than Ganondorf a clone of Captain Falcon. But they were both characters who didn't make the roster initially even though they were popular choices, but were later considered due to being similar to an existing character already on the roster, and were envisioned as slower, stronger versions of the original. The difference is one was spared being a clone while the other wasn't. In the situation leading up to their inclusion, they do seem fairly comparable to me.



Might have to elaborate here.

Wario was a front-runner in Brawl, that is what I meant. Sorry for the confusion. I was just insinuating that Ganon's inclusion in Melee was the detriment, Wario was one of the first Newcomers revealed for Brawl. Having him as a clone at that point would not have made any sense.


I already alluded to this in the first post. The player-base that mains Ganondorf doesn't want him to undergo radical changes, Sakurai understands this. He didn't look at Ganon and say, "he is the prince of darkness, thus he needs to have an elaborate move-set to exemplify his innate nature"; he just added him knowing that the fans would appreciate the thought of his inclusion. After that, in Brawl, he didn't want to change too much to segregate his player-base. This notion is the reason he is having trouble cutting characters. Some Ganon mains don't want him to change significantly, the others are willing to take a leap of faith and ask that Sakurai innovates his move-set. So it is difficult for him to maintain that balance. This is why he didn't change anything substantial in Brawl. He will most likely change a little bit more, but anyone expecting a totally new move-set are deluding themselves. No matter how worthy he is.

In the end, Sakurai didn't look at Wario and decide to treat him with more respect than Ganondorf. There is no correlation.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

...Ganondorf's godawful U-Tilt-

 

[FlareHabanero]

Are you actually implying Ganondorf's up tilt is a reliable attack!?

 

[Deleted member]

I personally don't care that it's unreliable. It's too ****ing cool.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I personally don't care that it's unreliable. It's too ****ing cool.

He has flexible legs. I mean damn, it looks like he's hugging a totem pole or something. It's nearly vertical.
I can't even raise mine up past a 45 degree angle.

But I wouldn't want to be in such a position with my crotch exposed anyway.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

He will most likely change a little bit more, but anyone expecting a totally new move-set are deluding themselves. No matter how worthy he is.

What pisses me off is the people who tell me to just play as Captain Falcon. That does not satisfy my desire. Captain Falcon aint' no wizard wit electricity, shadow, choking, explosive heel kicks, and he sure as hell ain't as strong as Ganondorf. Besides I don't want a play as a super hero that beats people up, I wanna play as a black, bearded, badass wizard that beats people up. *****! I want mah Gundurf!!!!

In other words he plays very differently and I, a Zelda fan, am not complaining that he doesn't do more. He does stuff from the games, so why do I need more? He's Ganondorf, he's fun to play as, that's all I ask of a character. I'm not the kind of Smash fan that just wants more and more, not even grateful for what Sakurai has given me. I don't care how similar Dr. Mario is, I LOVE THE SON OF A *****!~. Brawl gave me everyone I needed, and all I ask is that I get back what was taken away.