Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Zhadgon]

That's making the assumption that it wouldn't be worth it to just add all 3 of those characters. There would be tons of backlash if a single one of them left now that Lucario is still rather significant. Sakurai has proven that he isn't afraid to delay the game to add characters he deems worth it.

And he prove us that he isn't afraid of cutting characters either (takes a look closer to the tombstones of Mewtwo, Roy, Pichu and Dr. Mario).
.n_n.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Because Pokemon is almost definitely going to have five spots, it was very close to getting them last time, and by no means has the series declined since then.

If anyone wants to take anything from N3ON's post, it's this.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Pokemon Characters
-Pikachu
-Jigglypuff
-PKMN Trainer
-Lucario
-Mewtwo

But you never know, Sakurai could surprise us, I don't think anyone expected PKMN Trainer, R.O.B., or Wii Fit Trainer being playable.

Wouldn't it be ironic to not have a Pokemon newcomer, even after Sakurai stating it in his Pokemon criteria it could be hinting a Pokemon newcomer? He must've had planned a Pokemon newcomer in the priority list since.

 

[Morbi]

And he prove us that he isn't afraid of cutting characters either (takes a look closer to the tombstones of Mewtwo, Roy, Pichu and Dr. Mario).
.n_n.

That example is fairly irrelevant as well, 3 were last minute additions in Melee specifically designed to be clones. Obviously they were low on the priority list. Mewtwo is really the only character that fits that scenario. Even then, Mewtwo was the closest to being complete. Lucario is not a clone, Lucario was not negatively received in Brawl (as Mewtwo was in Melee). There is no correlation.

Edit: I forgot to mention the most important notion. Lucario has no one important or relevant to compete with as Mewtwo did. The closest is Zoroark, and I guarantee that he will not replace Lucario.

 

[TumblrFamous]

And he prove us that he isn't afraid of cutting characters either (takes a look closer to the tombstones of Mewtwo, Roy, Pichu and Dr. Mario).
.n_n.

Funny because he only legitimately cut one character, Pichu, probably because of how hated he was in Melee.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The reason Sheik, Jiggs and Ness are still kept are because of seniority in two cases, a really well done moveset that become extremely popular in Melee and by now has a lot of followers and the love of Sakurai for Earthbound / Mother and do not forget that Jiggs still has one of the more unique and wacky movesets from all the cast that by now has a huge following and no one can replicate. Compared to Lucario that has one of the blandest movesets, a broken mechanic, not a lot of people used it compared to others and a huge competition in his own series from all 719 critters, puts him in a really rough spot especially because the game needs a balance between all the series that are in Smash, the same reason we don´t have 10 characters from Mario Series, or 5 lords in Fire Emblem, there still need a balance.
.n_n.

I see reasons to keep Jigglypuff and Ness in here, but not for Sheik.

Ness is still the face of his series. Cut him, and you might as well remove all EarthBound and Mother related content in Smash. Same should be said about Captain Falcon. It's the exact same situation actually.

Jigglypuff was actually on the chopping block, and unfortunately I could see her leave for Mewtwo this time by certain time contraints. Not that Mewtwo doesn't deserve it more, but... Jigglypuff just has grown on me a lot cause of Smash.

Lucario just needs his damn Aura mechanic removed.

The rest of your post is just needless complaining.

I actually really think that Sheik is the weakest link in all of the Smash Bros. characters.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

And he prove us that he isn't afraid of cutting characters either (takes a look closer to the tombstones of Mewtwo, Roy, Pichu and Dr. Mario).
.n_n.

The latter 3 were all last minute additions and clones. Of coarse they'd be low priority. Mewtwo, on the other hand, was nearly complete in Brawl, and all we know is that Lucario and the Trainer our-prioritized him. Perhaps Sakurai wanted to maintain the same amount of characters between Mario and Pokemon?

 

[Curious Villager]

Funny because he only legitimately cut one character, Pichu, probably because of how hated he was in Melee.

Well Pichu and Young Link, unless you would say that he was merely redesigned (and renamed as it no longer would make sense to call him Young Link as he wasn't the younger version of Link anymore) like the rest of the Zelda cast.

Times attempted to post this: 9
Oh gosh now I know how you guys feel....

 

[LoneKonWolf]

Times attempted to post this: 9
Oh gosh now I know how you guys feel....

yes, . . . yes
welcome to our death of destruction, the nonposting attempts,
welcome to our little slice of hell mate

 

[N3ON]

The reason Sheik, Jiggs and Ness are still kept are because of seniority in two cases, a really well done moveset that become extremely popular in Melee and by now has a lot of followers and the love of Sakurai for Earthbound / Mother and do not forget that Jiggs still has one of the more unique and wacky movesets from all the cast that by now has a huge following and no one can replicate. Compared to Lucario that has one of the blandest movesets, a broken mechanic, not a lot of people used it compared to others and a huge competition in his own series from all 719 critters, puts him in a really rough spot especially because the game needs a balance between all the series that are in Smash, the same reason we don´t have 10 characters from Mario Series, or 5 lords in Fire Emblem, there still need a balance.
.n_n.

1) Jiggs was on the chopping block and in danger of being cut in Brawl, seniority be damned.
2) Lucario, overall, was well-received in Brawl. Much better than Mewtwo was in Melee.
3) If Lucario can make it onto the roster over 99% of other Pokemon for Brawl, who has showed up since then that can challenge him?
4) Five Pokemon characters is something we were going to get last time. Assuming the roster is bigger now, adding one more spot won't be a problem.
5) If Smash's roster reflected the actual success of Nintendo's series, Pokemon would take up a good 30% of it at least, with Mario having about 55-60% and the rest being the other series. Five out of likely close to fifty is pretty fair.
6) Veteran conditions for inclusion =/= newcomer conditions for inclusion.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I actually really think that Sheik is the weakest link in all of the Smash Bros. characters.

In terms of importance, I can agree there.

 

[Curious Villager]

yes, . . . yes
welcome to our death of destruction, the nonposting attempts,
welcome to our little slice of hell mate

Thanks....?

I have yet to accidentally double post in this site though so I'm not a part of that club at least.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Well Pichu and Young Link, unless you would say that he was merely redesigned (and renamed as it no longer would make sense to call him Young Link as he wasn't the younger version of Link anymore) like the rest of the Zelda cast.

Times attempted to post this: 9
Oh gosh now I know how you guys feel....

That's what I was thinking generally.

I feel your pain with posting though, OH MY GOD.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Mewtwo returns and Pokemon gets no cuts, that's 7! (I'm down with what Project M did.)

I would love to have them do what Project M did, in basically everything ASIDE from having a separate Sheik, just make that Impa. I will do this whenever I get PM myself though

Also, I'd probably make Squirtle evolve 2 stages and Ivysaur 1 stage just because Blastoise. This is just wishful speaking though.

Samus / Zero Suit Samus actually makes the most sence as they are now. And they are the most treated as separate characters, which is ironic in a way...

 

[BluePikmin11]

Thanks....

I have yet to double post in this site though so I'm not a part of that club at least.

Never click the reply button twice no matter how bad the internet connection may be, I'm already a victim.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Well Pichu and Young Link, unless you would say that he was merely redesigned (and renamed as it no longer would make sense to call him Young Link as he wasn't the younger version of Link anymore) like the rest of the Zelda cast.

Times attempted to post this: 9
Oh gosh now I know how you guys feel....

Here's a tip that I use for this, make sure you copy it and try pressing post buttons three times. The copy is just for precaution.

 

[Curious Villager]

Never click the reply button twice no matter how bad the internet connection may be, I'm already a victim.

Here's a tip that I use for this, make sure you copy it and try pressing post buttons three times. The copy is just for precaution.

Thanks for letting me know, I'll keep that in mind.

Anyway, we should get back on topic, sorry for derailing the thread. :x

 

[?????????????]

I actually really think that Sheik is the weakest link in all of the Smash Bros. characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yep, she got that Ordon Sword, she weak.

 

[Gune]

Except Lucario with Mewtwo .
.n_n.

Must resist urge to rip throat out with bare hands....

 

[Chandeelure]

 

[Gunla]

Must resist urge to rip throat out with bare hands....

I honestly think that there will be only two or three cuts. If anything, Snake or Wolf. But I'd rather be optimistic and say there's no cuts at all!

 

[Zhadgon]

No he doesn't, there's room for five Pokemon slots, we were going to get that last time when the roster was even smaller. And he has a unique moveset, and the fairly likely chance of having his Mega Evolution implemented, so if anything his moveset is a point in his favour. Even if you don't like it. (Plus popularity matters more for returning veterans than moveset - just ask Falco and Mewtwo).

But we didn´t have 5 Pokemon slots in Brawl, even if you tell me that we will have 10 probable pokemon in the lineup to be in the roster in the final game there were only 4 Pokemon slots, his moveset is broken and needs an overhaul is not like Fox or Kirby they can translate well with minor changes from one game to another without to much trouble and is not because I don´t like it but becuase in fact in tournaments and in casual plays not many people use him because of his high level gameplay and his broken mechanic that is not worth to invest time on, the problem with falco is that his series dosen´t have 100 space animals to compete with in fact I can say thereis only 4 main characters for the series and by now there are three with the possibility that one of them will not came back for this Smash (is Falco or Wolf but if Sakurai needs space or cut someone will be either of this two with Lucario) and Mewtwo was cut because of many reasons I believe one of them it was poor reception that went with the Smash community and his broken moveset that put him in the lowest playable characters.

Umm... it's not like veterans need to earn their spot on the roster every time. Already being included previously plus the enduring popularity, renewed prominence within the main series, and promotion as basically the mascot for Mega Evolutions within the game give Lucario quite a lot in his favour. Veterans have returned with much less to their name.

Yeah Veterans have returned with less but some of them were cut with even more Roy, Mewtwo, Pichu and Dr. Mario have nice tombstones, but still the competition is within his series and the balance with the whole game, once again is the reason we don´t have 10 characters from Mario Series or 7 Lords from Fire Emblem

Ok, you say six is good enough. Last time Sakurai tried to include seven. Let's see who gets their way in the end.

Well is a prediction thread, like you say lets see who can predict the final roster closer as the final result.

Yeah and Lucario is more popular than Jiggs. He was also prioritized higher than her last time around and since then has only gained more popularity and prominence. Seems like if any of them were to get cut, it'd be her, she was on the chopping block last time. But that's not going to happen either. Because Pokemon is almost definitely going to have five spots, it was very close to getting them last time, and by no means has the series declined since then.

Well the reason that Jiggs was included in Brawl and I must say in Melee and Smash 64 is because one of the easiest characters to program and make (if not the easiest from all) so thats why it has save her in a lot of occasions and I don´t think this time will be any different (that lucky ba... has a really Big Star in the sky that is watching her ).

I honestly have no clue how Lucario's "generic" move-set is relevant to his inclusion. He has something that almost every other candidate in the roster doesn't, a special mechanic. Regardless, unique move-sets are inherently subjective. Lucario was a great addition in my opinion, I utterly fail to see how he was "bland". It is difficult for me to associate him with any other character in the roster as he had a variety of moves. Not to mention his new found status as the contemporary Mega-Evolution mascot. He is not going anywhere.

I can see Lucario sinking like the Titanic, the wonderful character and for now one of the highest popular critters from Pokemon getting sunk because of the balance to the roster and the priority list with the development of this new Smash.

.n_n.

 

[Seraphim.]

I don't know, Lucario got some good face time in X/Y being the first Pokemon you Mega evolve he's still pretty popular it seems.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I can see Lucario sinking like the Titanic, the wonderful character and for now one of the highest popular critters from Pokemon getting sunk because of the balance to the roster and the priority list with the development of this new Smash.

.n_n.

Remember it's just one of the possibilities of how the Pokemon franchise is dealt with.

 

[3Bismyname]

man the slot argument is so stupid. there is no rule saying any given series needs a 4 slot cap. that's made up fan BS. Brawl is the first game to make that a thing as Melee had 5 Mario reps. its not a pattern or a trend so don't treat it like it is. (my reply thing isn't working for some reason )

 

[Diddy Kong]

()

 

[Zhadgon]

man the slot argument is so stupid. there is no rule saying any given series needs a 4 slot cap. that's made up fan BS. Brawl is the first game to make that a thing as Melee had 5 Mario reps. its not a pattern or a trend so don't treat it like it is. (my reply thing isn't working for some reason )

Is not BS rule, the thing is because Smash gets a lot of important series, Big, Medium and Small all of them need a balance to their playable characters thats the reason why don´t we have 10 characters from Mario series, 7 Lords from Fire Emblem and 15 Pokemon in the roster.

.n_n.

 

[BluePikmin11]

()

Needs moar

 

[Gunla]

()

I have reasons to believe this is the case, though I feel that Ivysaur and Squirtle should evolve.
Times took to post: 9

 

[Louie G.]

Needs moar

It would have like a year ago. But now no.

And as for Pokémon in general, 5 characters is a lock really. Nobody deserves to be cut and Mewtwo is a shoo in.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Meowth, that's right!

----

 

[3Bismyname]

@Zhadgon
theres a difference between balance and capping. what u are implying is that Sakurai caps series, which he doesn't. he balances them in that certain higher priority series do get larger representation while smaller ones get less, which everyone agrees with for the most part. the reason we don't have more Mario characters is because we don't need them. we got the main 4, and technically we now have 4 characters from the extended Mario universe with Wario, Yoshi, DK and Diddy. anyone else isn't necessary. and no one is implying that Pokémon have 15 slots. that would be ********. one additional slot is not gonna upset the balance.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

I honestly think that there will be only two or three cuts. If anything, Snake or Wolf. But I'd rather be optimistic and say there's no cuts at all!

are people still saying that?

 

[Gune]

Is not BS rule, the thing is because Smash gets a lot of important series, Big, Medium and Small all of them need a balance to their playable characters thats the reason why don´t we have 10 characters from Mario series, 7 Lords from Fire Emblem and 15 Pokemon in the roster.

.n_n.

It is BS not ounce did sakurai say anything about balance, he said he doesent want to overrep nothing about balance.

Personally if you think Lucario and falco are getting cut I'm inclined to believe that you know nothing of there importance and popularity.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I have reasons to believe this is the case, though I feel that Ivysaur and Squirtle should evolve.
Times took to post: 9

How I would love this to happen...

 

[N3ON]

But we didn´t have 5 Pokemon slots in Brawl, even if you tell me that we will have 10 probable pokemon in the lineup to be in the roster in the final game there were only 4 Pokemon slots,

Smash's roster never to expand again confirmed.

his moveset is broken and needs an overhaul is not like Fox or Kirby they can translate well with minor changes from one game to another without to much trouble

Yeah, if there's one character in Brawl that I always hear complaints about having a broken moveset... it's Lucario.

and is not because I don´t like it but becuase in fact in tournaments and in casual plays not many people use him because of his high level gameplay and his broken mechanic that is not worth to invest time on,

Mhmm, if there's one thing that tournaments players are scared of it's investing time into a game to learn high level gameplay.

As for casuals, according to Sakurai all characters were played pretty equally. And guess what? Casuals often pick characters for the character, not the moveset.

the problem with falco is that his series dosen´t have 100 space animals to compete with in fact I can say thereis only 4 main characters for the series and by now there are three with the possibility that one of them will not came back for this Smash (is Falco or Wolf but if Sakurai needs space or cut someone will be either of this two with Lucario)

Yeah, doesn't it just suck when there's not a lot of competition in a series and the choice for who to include is obvious?

and Mewtwo was cut because of many reasons I believe one of them it was poor reception that went with the Smash community and his broken moveset that put him in the lowest playable characters.

I think you may need to re-examine the word "broken", but in any case... considering Lucario has neither of these... it's not a problem.

Yeah Veterans have returned with less but some of them were cut with even more Roy, Mewtwo, Pichu and Dr. Mario have nice tombstones,

Wait, are you implying Roy, Pichu, and Doc had more to their name when they were cut than Lucario does now? Seriously?
Or maybe I just can't tell what you're trying to say because there have been NO PERIODS YET.

but still the competition is within his series and the balance with the whole game, once again is the reason we don´t have 10 characters from Mario Series or 7 Lords from Fire Emblem

So five Mario slots on a roster of 25 is just fine, but 5 Pokemon slots of a roster of probably around 50 isn't?

Well is a prediction thread, like you say lets see who can predict the final roster closer as the final result.

You know you are arguing against Sakurai here. If he thought five Pokemon slots were too much, he wouldn't have even attempted it.

Well the reason that Jiggs was included in Brawl and I must say in Melee and Smash 64 is because one of the easiest characters to program and make (if not the easiest from all) so thats why it has save her in a lot of occasions and I don´t think this time will be any different (that lucky ba... has a really Big Star in the sky that is watching her ).

Sure. But that's not what I was saying. I was saying she was in jeopardy of being cut in Brawl, and thus seniority isn't a sure safety.

I can see Lucario sinking like the Titanic, the wonderful character and for now one of the highest popular critters from Pokemon getting sunk because of the balance to the roster and the priority list with the development of this new Smash.

Good luck with that.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It would have like a year ago. But now no.

And as for Pokémon in general, 5 characters is a lock really. Nobody deserves to be cut and Mewtwo is a shoo in.

People move on too quickly, and people ignore Zoroark. I still think his uniqueness and decent popularity is enough to for him to get into the roster.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I want to make a new roster but I don't have all the flashy icons you guys are using so I won't...

 

[BluePikmin11]

I want to make a new roster but I don't have all the flashy icons you guys are using so I won't...

Check the roster maker for some good icons.