Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[TORNADO BUS DRIVER]

On the topic of retro characters in general, after Takamaru, my favorites are Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider, Excitebiker, Bubbles, and Donbe. I especially like Donbe...but only after Takamaru.

Would you have him fight along side hikri tho ?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Unlock ables:
Starfy
Roy
Mewtwo
Ridley
Issac
Dixie Kong
Mega Man

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler

7/21/13
I think I found the perfect roster, unless Nintendo news changes the business, this is probably the roster I'm going to stick with.

7/19/13
A favorable roster.

6/24/13
What do you think, I think I found the sweet spot roster I've been looking for, 49 characters (53 in real terms):

Newcomers (including WFT, Megaman, and Villager):
1. Wii Fit Trainer
2. Ridley
3. Palutena
4. Takamaru
5. Prince Sable
6. Villager
7. Tom Nook
8. Little Mac
9. King Hippo
10. Shulk
11. Mewtwo
12. Isaac
13. Chrom
14. Wonder Red
15. Megaman
16. Pac-Man
17. Sonic
18. Mii

Cuts:
- Lucario
- Ike
- Snake

6/12/13

11/24/2013
One of my favorite rosters I made so far:

Prefer the June 12th version by far.

Also, who the heck is Daitouryou ?
Looks like he's from the SMT franchise.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Spoiler

Prefer the June 12th version by far.

Also, who the heck is Daitouryou ?
Looks like he's from the SMT franchise.

Daitouryou is a character that is suppose to represent an important part of Nintendo history, the Hanafuda cards.
His design is based on the cover of the most popular Hanafuda deck:

 

[TheLastJinjo]

7/21/13
I think I found the perfect roster, unless Nintendo news changes the business, this is probably the roster I'm going to stick with.

 

[Diddy Kong]

To those who still replace Ike, why aren't you replacing Sheik?

Chrom is not gonna take Ike's place. Argue about Sheik staying whatever you want, but Impa has a legitimate chance of replacing her. Can't think of any other veteran character that actually has a chance of getting replaced outside of Sheik really.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Geez, I was only playing with the idea of Cut DLC when came to that roster.

 

[Deleted member]

Sheik ain't going nowhere.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Argue about Sheik staying whatever you want, but Impa has a legitimate chance of replacing her. Can't think of any other veteran character that actually has a chance of getting replaced outside of Sheik really.

I really don't think Sheik will be replaced by Impa. It's an insult to Impa.

 

[?????????????]

Would you have him fight along side hikri tho ?

Mmnnn...maybe. The Character Change function of Shin Onigashima would make sense to implement, but if it were to happen, I would want it to be in a way that differed from Zelda/Sheik. Donbe is the fighter of the duo, so I think it also works to just have him.

 

[Gune]

Geez, I was only playing with the idea of Cut DLC when came to that roster.

Vets come first newcomers come last if there is DLC I only see melee vets not brawl ones.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I believe Mach Rider on his bike could work, but they'd have to give him two movesets. (Kind of how I envision EVR Racer Jockey to work).

His attacks would be sort of limited while on his bike (not much maneuverability on ground or on air). Then when he gets knocked off his bike, he'd have access to another set of moves. The bike would still be his main means of recovery.

Out of the stuff he could use as weapons, I see: A laser rifle, a chain, oil drums, stones, the bike, and maybe some fire-trails too.

I would really love to see a new Mach Rider game, though. It's perhaps one of the only retro Nintendo games with an interesting backstory to it that wasn't harnessed enough.

 

[?????????????]

If Sheik was going to be replaced, it would have made much more sense in Brawl, when Twilight Princess had no Sheik, then now, where we have Ocarina of Time 3D references.

 

[Morbi]

To those who still replace Ike, why aren't you replacing Sheik?

Chrom is not gonna take Ike's place. Argue about Sheik staying whatever you want, but Impa has a legitimate chance of replacing her. Can't think of any other veteran character that actually has a chance of getting replaced outside of Sheik really.

I was reading this in agreement; however, I didn't realize that it was you posting. Haha.

Ike is not a viable character for replacement as he has an extremely unique move-set that has earned him the reputation as one of the most fun Newcomers. Honestly, I cannot even stand Ike, but he is still one of the most fun characters on the roster. Sakurai alluded to cuts in a way that suggests that his methodology pertains specifically to move-sets. In any event, I am not sure that anyone can rationally suggest that Chrom is a suitable supplement for Ike.

Sheik on the other hand, has some overt correlations to Impa. It is apparent that they share these similarities, and Sheik is not a prevalent or pertinent aspect to Zelda's character outside of OoT. The argument could be made that the intent was for Zelda to actually utilize her magic for such a transformation. However, I fail to see relevance in the portion of the her character. It would be just as effective to have her guard that has had a more predominant role be implemented (if only based on the notion of her "recency"). I am not insinuating that it is likely, I am implying that it is a reasonable assumption.

 

[TumblrFamous]

The fact that Sheik is a veteran to Smash gives her an edge immediately.

And Chrom replacing Ike isn't necessarily out of the question. Lucario and Ike were at their peaks by Brawl, and outprioritized Mewtwo and Roy, respectively. I doubt this will happen to Ike, but if there are time constraints, Chrom or "other FE character" could get in over Ike, leaving him to be low priority. (Still EXTREMELY unlikely, though)

 

[?????????????]

I still stand, though, that Sheik is an "ability" that Zelda has, while Impa is a different person. The two are separate characters, so they do not have an impact on each other in this regard. Are they similar? Sure. But Link/Toon Link Lucas/Ness. If Impa is worth it, Sheik doesn't have to be cut to make it happen.

 

[Zhadgon]

Anyone has though about a Baten Kaitos character like Kalas to get a spot in the roster?
.n_n.

 

[?????????????]

Anyone has though about a Baten Kaitos character like Kalas to get a spot in the roster?
.n_n.

I've thought about it, but boy, where does it even STAND now? Is it 1st party, or technically 3rd party, or somewhere in between? Regardless, while it's a cool idea, I don't think it stands a better chance than other new series that could be
included, like Punch-Out, Golden Sun, Xenoblade, or Sin & Punishment.

 

[Morbi]

I still stand, though, that Sheik is an "ability" that Zelda has, while Impa is a different person. The two are separate characters, so they do not have an impact on each other in this regard. Are they similar? Sure. But Link/Toon Link Lucas/Ness. If Impa is worth it, Sheik doesn't have to be cut to make it happen.

It was done with Pokemon Trainer, it is the same concept. Obviously they have their distinctive differences, my point is that it would be simple to change the animation for Zelda's Down Special and it would make sense to anyone that has played a mainstream Zelda game. The slot doesn't have an arbitrary constraint on it. In all honesty, Impa is more significant to the franchise itself, and Impa is more important to Zelda as a character. However, I do affirm the notion that it is not likely, it is logical though. That is my main premise.

I personally think it would be a great way to change up something menial to one of my mains to give me a different experience. I think it would be a rational way to have an easy cut/newcomer without becoming a detriment to the roster. I do think it is the ideal thing to do.

Do I think it is likely? No, we are talking about sentimental Sakurai.

 

[N3ON]

Even if Baten Kaitos were a purely 1st party series it still wouldn't be significant enough to get more than an AT. There are just too many other more popular, more deserving, larger (whether in number of games or in terms of reception - or both) series still unrepresented.

 

[?????????????]

It was done with Pokemon Trainer, it is the same concept. Obviously they have their distinctive differences, my point is that it would be simple to change the animation for Zelda's Down Special and it would make sense to anyone that has played a mainstream Zelda game. The slot doesn't have an arbitrary constraint on it. In all honesty, Impa is more significant to the franchise itself, and Impa is more important to Zelda as a character. However, I do affirm the notion that it is not likely, it is logical though. That is my main premise.

I personally think it would be a great way to change up something menial to one of my mains to give me a different experience. I think it would be a rational way to have an easy cut/newcomer without becoming a detriment to the roster. I do think it is the ideal thing to do.

Do I think it is likely? No, we are talking about sentimental Sakurai.

Of course the notion is logical.

Then again, Jigglypuff makes people explode by falling asleep.

 

[TumblrFamous]

You know, I've always liked Impa and have wanted her in Smash. But never at the expense of Sheik. Sure, there is some plausible possibility she can replace Sheik, but Sheik is a veteran, a character Sakurai is not just going to cut out in favor of someone else.

That and what pizzadudemanguy said. Sheik is generally a Special Move for Zelda, just as Samus's Transformation and the Pokemon change. You're keeping the concept of the Princess of Hyrule, Samus Aran, and the Pokemon Trainer intact. But having Zelda switch into Impa is something that makes no sense to me, for various reasons specified in pizzadudeman's post. They're DIFFERENT characters in one. Sheik is Zelda, ZSS is Samus, and the three Pokemon are the Trainer's, which is why they call him the Pokemon Trainer.

As her own character, it'd seem pretty redundant. Sure, she can be made completely unique, but we already have Sheik, which just makes Impa feel like an unnecessary add-on. The fact is Sakurai is trying to bring back all of Brawl's characters. So Impa replacing Sheik at this point wouldn't make much sense.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still stand, though, that Sheik is an "ability" that Zelda has, while Impa is a different person. The two are separate characters, so they do not have an impact on each other in this regard. Are they similar? Sure. But Link/Toon Link Lucas/Ness. If Impa is worth it, Sheik doesn't have to be cut to make it happen.

Sheik isn't an ability, she's a disguise. Disguises only work once, hence her being a one-off. And despite being 'an ability' she still takes a whole spot as a character to develop. And besides, the Zelda / Sheik idea of having a fast character that racks up damage and a slow, worthless but slightly more powerful than average character just doesn't work.

Ever wondered why Zelda was nerfed as much as Sheik was in Brawl? This reason.

Also, Impa can have an unique moveset, much like Dixie Kong could. But this is Sakurai, and he made Captain Ganondorf, so am just being realistic here.

And I mostly support the idea of Impa being a separate character from Zelda, with Zelda having no Sheik transformation. The fact that a SS Zelda + Impa duo is even a POSSIBILITY just adds more vallue to the character in general.

 

[Morbi]

Of course the notion is logical.

Then again, Jigglypuff makes people explode by falling asleep.

We are talking about game development logic (as in decisions based on the game and how it will operate)... not the logic within the game. There is a VERY significant difference. I am an advocate of Smash playing with inherent logical flaws. That is the entire point of Smash. That does not; however, mean that Sora Ltd. is exempt from making irrational decisions in regards to the actually development of the game. I am not sure where you are pulling that out of.

Disclaimer: I am not insinuating that Impa has any bearing on this. I am not implying that Impa is the only logical choice.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Anyone think there'll be another transforming character? Seeing how they've been introduced since Melee?

Melee:
-Zelda/Sheik

Brawl:
-Pokemon Trainer
-Samus>ZSS + FS: Samus<>ZSS
FS: Warioman
FS: GigaBowser

 

[?????????????]

And besides, the Zelda / Sheik idea of having a fast character that racks up damage and a slow, worthless but slightly more powerful than average character just doesn't work.

Isn't the Zelda/Sheik combo currently placed higher on the tiers than either Zelda or Sheik on their own?

 

[BKupa666]

Not to get wrapped up in this discussion, but I'm getting major Shokio vibes here. "Sheik's a friggin' disguise! Dis-guise! Disguises come in all shapes in sizes and can only be used once!"

 

[TumblrFamous]

Anyone think there'll be another transforming character? Seeing how they've been introduced since Melee?

Melee:
-Zelda/Sheik

Brawl:
-Pokemon Trainer
-Samus>ZSS + FS: Samus<>ZSS
FS: Warioman
FS: GigaBowser

Um, I don't know if we would see one this time around.

The most likely transforming character would be a Tetra/Toon Zelda combo I guess. And they're not even supremely likely so I don't really know. There's Giga Mac for a Final Smash, though.

Isn't the Zelda/Sheik combo currently placed higher on the tiers than either Zelda or Sheik on their own?

In Japan tier lists they count them as one character, and they turn out to be a pretty average character.

Ew... back-to-back posts.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Isn't the Zelda/Sheik combo currently placed higher on the tiers than either Zelda or Sheik on their own?

That's cause there's just ONE matchup where Zelda is better against a character than Sheik. And this is in Brawl. Believe me that outside of that ONE matchup, the Zelda / Sheik placement is that high because of Sheik.

In Melee, Sheik just clearly outclasses Zelda in everything. Yet they found it fit to nerf Zelda to, being even worse than in Melee. Sheik ironically is about as bad in Brawl as Zelda was in Melee. Might actually be a little worse even..

 

[Seraphim.]

Isn't the Zelda/Sheik combo currently placed higher on the tiers than either Zelda or Sheik on their own?

In Melee Sheik alone is better than using both, as of the current Brawl tier list Zelda/Sheik combo is one spot higher than Sheik alone. So It's really take your pick.

 

[Curious Villager]

Anyone think there'll be another transforming character? Seeing how they've been introduced since Melee?

Melee:
-Zelda/Sheik

Brawl:
-Pokemon Trainer
-Samus>ZSS + FS: Samus<>ZSS
FS: Warioman
FS: GigaBowser

The only one I can think of is a Toon Zelda/Tetra transformation. Perhaps Mewtwo might even get the chance to Mega evolve into Mega Mewtwo Y and/or X but I feel he's more likely of doing that as a final smash.

But besides those two I'm not sure.... :/

 

[Morbi]

That's cause there's just ONE matchup where Zelda is better against a character than Sheik. And this is in Brawl. Believe me that outside of that ONE matchup, the Zelda / Sheik placement is that high because of Sheik.

Right? I don't want to say that it was a stupid question... I started typing up an answer and I couldn't post it because it was extremely rude.

Shiek is the only character worth using in competitive. It depends on which game, but not really, Sheik is inherently better. Especially in Melee.

 

[?????????????]

We are talking about game development logic (as in decisions based on the game and how it will operate)... not the logic within the game. There is a VERY significant difference. I am an advocate of Smash playing with inherent logical flaws. That is the entire point of Smash. That does not; however, mean that Sora Ltd. is exempt from making irrational decisions in regards to the actually development of the game. I am not sure where you are pulling that out of.

Disclaimer: I am not insinuating that Impa has any bearing on this. I am not implying that Impa is the only logical choice.

Ah, sorry, I misread.

 

[Zhadgon]

I've thought about it, but boy, where does it even STAND now? Is it 1st party, or technically 3rd party, or somewhere in between? Regardless, while it's a cool idea, I don't think it stands a better chance than other new series that could be
included, like Punch-Out, Golden Sun, Xenoblade, or Sin & Punishment.

I finally found who is the ownership of the IP and believe it or not is Nintendo, it did happen like Banjo and Kazooie with Microsoft once they bought Rare, in this case Nintendo did buy Monolith from Namco and one of the IP´s that were sold is Baten Kaitos in this transaction so now Nintendo has all the rights for name and characters. After I searched about this I found too that Monolith besides working on Project X they are developing a game for the 3DS, no one knows which title they are working on but one of the cancelled projects that they were making a few years back was a Baten Kaitos for the DS (I don´t remember if it was for the DS or the 3DS), so maybe they took again the game and are now developing it.

.n_n.

 

[Morbi]

Ah, sorry, I misread.

It is fine, it tends to happen in colloquial environments.

 

[?????????????]

I don't see a scenario where it's likely that Sheik gets cut. However, if I were to just go into personal feelings with the Legend of Zelda series...

I like Impa a lot and I would not care at all if Sheik were cut. Then again, I would not care at all if either Jigglypuff or Ness were cut.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The fact that Sheik is a veteran to Smash gives her an edge immediately.

And Chrom replacing Ike isn't necessarily out of the question. Lucario and Ike were at their peaks by Brawl, and outprioritized Mewtwo and Roy, respectively. I doubt this will happen to Ike, but if there are time constraints, Chrom or "other FE character" could get in over Ike, leaving him to be low priority. (Still EXTREMELY unlikely, though)

Then in that case, Chrom wouldn't be replacing Ike, but rather outprioritizing him.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Anyone think there'll be another transforming character? Seeing how they've been introduced since Melee?

Melee:
-Zelda/Sheik

Brawl:
-Pokemon Trainer
-Samus>ZSS + FS: Samus<>ZSS
FS: Warioman
FS: GigaBowser

 

[Zhadgon]

Even if Baten Kaitos were a purely 1st party series it still wouldn't be significant enough to get more than an AT. There are just too many other more popular, more deserving, larger (whether in number of games or in terms of reception - or both) series still unrepresented.

Well the only ones that I could think that are more deserving for a spot based in how unique they are, their gameplay and the universe they come from is the Wars Series (Famicom Wars, Advance Wars, Battalion Wars, etc.), Starfy, Golden Sun and Punch Out! that are still not represented with a playable character.

.n_n.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I would actually really dislike it if Sheik is cut.

There are some characters that, if gone, would make the roster feel weird. It was like in Brawl when we didn't have Mewtwo.

I feel this way to Sheik, Ness, Jigglypuff, Ice Climbers, ROB, and Mr. G&W. If any of them were gone, it'd feel... weird, if you all know what I mean.