Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[TheLastJinjo]

Considering that Super Smash Bros. U and 3D are now in development, I decided to do a roster revamp, with only 45 characters being chosen.



[collapse=Transformations Revisio]

Samus -> Zero Suit Samus
Mewtwo -> Awakened Forme Mewtwo[/collapse]

Basically, while making the roster, I went by the following guidelines, in terms of which characters from Brawl would be removed...

1: Characters who have appeared in the first three Super Smash Bros. installments can't be removed.
2: Characters who have appeared in Melee AND Brawl can't be removed.
3: Characters who have only appeared in Brawl can be at risk of getting removed.

Following those guidelines, I ended up removing the following characters...

*Ike
*Lucas
*Lucario
*R.O.B.
*Solid Snake

Regarding, the Legend of Zelda, I did have the following inputs...

Zelda: Skyward Sword incarnation
Ganondorf: Ocarina of Time incarnation
Toon Link: Wind Waker incarnation

Anyway, this roster may not be the most realistic one out there, but it's just an attempt to make a roster that's not going overboard with the character amounts.

Out of curiosity

Why do we have Skyward Zelda when we have Twilight Link? The reason we have the Twilight versions of the characters is that the represent more than just 1 game. Not to mention while Skyward Link works, Zelda doesn't. The return of Twilight Link confirms that will be the form of all the characters.

Why the Ocarina version of Ganondorf? And why only Zero Suit Samus? That doesn't make much sense.

The only other problem I have is the excessive amount of Mario Characters.

 

[FalKoopa]

Why do we have Skyward Zelda when we have Twilight Link?

Becuase she's looks better than TP Zelda. Sorry, had to say that.

Same with Ganondorf.

 

[masterluigi1]

Out of curiosity

Why do we have Skyward Zelda when we have Twilight Link? The reason we have the Twilight versions of the characters is that the represent more than just 1 game. Not to mention while Skyward Link works, Zelda doesn't. The return of Twilight Link confirms that will be the form of all the characters.

Why the Ocarina version of Ganondorf? And why only Zero Suit Samus? That doesn't make much sense.

The only other problem I have is the excessive amount of Mario Characters.

We don't have twilight link. The link we have is a cross between twilight link and skyward sword.

he has TP links hair but he also has SS link's pants.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

And why only Zero Suit Samus? That doesn't make much sense.

The point that I'm bringing up is that Samus can change into Zero Suit Samus, and vice versa. The scenario is the same with Mewtwo, but it can change into its Awakened Forme, and back into its Normal Forme.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Not a fan of this roster. Rosilina is not important. Zorock is not that important either. We have Newtwo now.
Dixie King is also a meh. Unless she is paired with someone, she will most likely end up as an Assist.
45 Characters sound right, but a bit high.




How is my bull any different from anyone elses? Is it that you just disagree, so it is off kilter?
I see nothing but opinion here. That is the point of the thread.

So saying "You can't change that fact" or "Ike is just another Marth is a fact" is an opinion? Here's the thing you state your opinions as fact when in reality the opposite opinion of yours is fact. And please defend Lucina being more different than Ike I really want to know.

 

[drag0nscythe]

You can not change that fact. It is true.
I am not going to add IMO after every sentence. That will just be silly. And Ike is based on Marth.
As for Lucina being more different. I have no idea. I hate FE. Not a fan of the series. I know she is a girl. She is well liked and Ike is old news. So boom.

 

[TheTuninator]

Considering that Super Smash Bros. U and 3D are now in development, I decided to do a roster revamp, with only 45 characters being chosen.

Pretty good roster overall. It's a damn shame that we almost certainly won't see Rosalina, as she is for my money the most interesting potential Mario newcomer by far.

I would kind of love another F-Zero character, as Captain Falcon is the gift that keeps on giving and any F-Zero newcomer would necessarily have to be equally ridiculous.

 

[FalKoopa]

he has TP links hair but he also has SS link's pants.

He's TP Link in all respects. Even the pants.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

As for Lucina being more different. I have no idea. I hate FE. Not a fan of the series..

I stopped right there.

 

[Deleted member]

You can not change that fact. It is true.
I am not going to add IMO after every sentence. That will just be silly. And Ike is based on Marth.
As for Lucina being more different. I have no idea. I hate FE. Not a fan of the series. I know she is a girl. She is well liked and Ike is old news. So boom.

If you hate FE, you are in no position to claim statements as fact or pass judgment as if your opinion is the only one that matters.
Especially one such as "Ike is based off Marth" and yet put Lucina on a higher pedestal despite actually being based on Marth just because of the bull**** "she's a GURL" argument.

I may not play FE, but I at least do clear and concise research to make my arguments in regards to the series and not let my bias cloud my judgment.

 

[Curious Villager]

The reason I don't post here as frequently as before is because of the insane debates between cut-happy people and people defending that there will be no cuts at all.

I consider both possibilities. I cannot guarantee that the roster will have cuts, nor I can't guarantee that all veterans will return.

Anyway, stop making assumptions like you know what will happen.

Frostwraith, you deserve an award of best member on SmashBoards!

 

[MagnesD3]

Falco is more important than Krystal.
Anyone who says otherwise is bloody delusional.

This statement is extremely debatable. And has been debated many times.

 

[FalKoopa]

This statement is extremely debatable. And has been debated many times.

If you are comparing them like Luigi vs. Peach, then I'd disagree to an extent. Falco has been around since the first game.

 

[Deleted member]

This statement is extremely debatable. And has been debated many times.

Not that debatable, really.
Falco's been in more games, has a higher degree of popularity, and is in a higher position on the team.

 

[MagnesD3]

If you are comparing them like Luigi vs. Peach, then I'd disagree to an extent. Falco has been around since the first game.

Luigi has had his own game and is playable in almost every mario game, thats not even close to being comparable.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

It's been debated several times but the degree I ended up reaching on the last time I got into a debate (which was much bigger and with people who play the damned games more than me) was that Krystal's a bit more important than Falco (Or vice-versa) but not by much.

It doesn't even matter much to argue it considering that Falco was added over Wolf in Melee. (Well, there's other reasons, but...) though I guess you could consider Wolf to be Bowser, Falco to be Luigi, and Krystal to be Peach. imokaywiththis.jpg

 

[MagnesD3]

Not that debatable, really.
Falco's been in more games, has a higher degree of popularity, and is in a higher position on the team.

Honestly thats your opinion, when these debates get started all that happens is no one agrees with each other and somebody ends up insulting the others intelligence, Its very debatable, and is the reason that these things occur...

 

[Frostwraith]

This is a... different post from the usual argumentation here.

This is a tier list of all veterans from Super Smash Bros.
I imagined myself in Sakurai's place regarding the veterans and started thinking on who should have more priority than whom.

Confirmed characters: Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, Kirby, Fox, Pikachu, Bowser and Pit

God tier characters - The ones that are very important to their series and to Nintendo overall. These are the least likely to get cut and, if I was Sakurai, I would give utmost priority to these characters.

Yoshi, Luigi, Captain Falcon, Peach, Zelda/Sheik, Marth, Ganondorf, Wario, Zero Suit Samus, Olimar, Diddy Kong and King Dedede

High tier characters - Not as important, but still highly iconic. This second batch contains lesser known characters from Melee and some Brawl newcomers that aren't as important to their franchises.

Ness, Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, Mr. Game & Watch, Falco, Meta Knight, Pokémon Trainer, R.O.B. and Wolf

Middle tier characters - These have their share of popularity, but their importance is not as great as the ones above.

Roy, Lucas, Ike, Lucario and Jigglypuff

Low tier characters - The ones with least importance and third party characters. The latter have lower priority due to licensing issues. These would be the likeliest to not return.

Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu, Toon Link, Snake and Sonic

This list is, of course, biased, since it's an hypothetical situation where I was thinking "what priority would I give to the veterans, if I was Sakurai?"

If anyone wants to share any thoughts on this list, just fire away.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Asides from all the moveset arguments and stuff zelda nerds are going to throw at me, Toon Link is pretty much Young Link.

 

[BluePikmin11]

My next prediction roster:

Although Geno may be a risky choice, I would put King K. Rool over Geno if it didn't happen.
I added Isaac, because simply, I think the ability to become an AT proves that Isaac is something, and the fact that there was a sequel a few years later that, leads to a new conclusion I came up. Most of the inclusions involve their uniqueness.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The point that I'm bringing up is that Samus can change into Zero Suit Samus, and vice versa. The scenario is the same with Mewtwo, but it can change into its Awakened Forme, and back into its Normal Forme.

Oh. Well I think Mewtwo will be in his X & Y form the whole time. There is no point in having an alternate form if it's more powerful, then you'd be that form the whole time. Plus if he uses that as his main form we can count him as an X/Y rep.

But, what about the other questions?

 

[MagnesD3]

This is a... different post from the usual argumentation here.

This is a tier list of all veterans from Super Smash Bros.
I imagined myself in Sakurai's place regarding the veterans and started thinking on who should have more priority than whom.

Confirmed characters: Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, Kirby, Fox, Pikachu, Bowser and Pit

God tier characters - The ones that are very important to their series and to Nintendo overall. These are the least likely to get cut and, if I was Sakurai, I would give utmost priority to these characters.

Yoshi, Luigi, Captain Falcon, Peach, Zelda/Sheik, Marth, Ganondorf, Wario, Zero Suit Samus, Olimar, Diddy Kong and King Dedede

High tier characters - Not as important, but still highly iconic. This second batch contains lesser known characters from Melee and some Brawl newcomers that aren't as important to their franchises.

Ness, Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, Mr. Game & Watch, Falco, Meta Knight, Pokémon Trainer, R.O.B. and Wolf

Middle tier characters - These have their share of popularity, but their importance is not as great as the ones above.

Roy, Lucas, Ike, Lucario and Jigglypuff

Low tier characters - The ones with least importance and third party characters. The latter have lower priority due to licensing issues. These would be the likeliest to not return.

Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu, Toon Link, Snake and Sonic

This list is, of course, biased, since it's an hypothetical situation where I was thinking "what priority would I give to the veterans, if I was Sakurai?"

If anyone wants to share any thoughts on this list, just fire away.

I would move falco to middle tier and put third party characters in the middle tier as well (or their own tier below it.) Also Lucas is pretty important so I dont know if he should be in middle tier.

 

[drag0nscythe]

If you hate FE, you are in no position to claim statements as fact or pass judgment as if your opinion is the only one that matters.
Especially one such as "Ike is based off Marth" and yet put Lucina on a higher pedestal despite actually being based on Marth just because of the bull**** "she's a GURL" argument.

I may not play FE, but I at least do clear and concise research to make my arguments in regards to the series and not let my bias cloud my judgment.

Actually. My liking fire emblem has no effect on my opinion on Smash. They are not related. People do not have to pass the "I love this series" to have an opinion. That is just silly.
Ike is still old hat. We all know it and everyone aside from people in this topic are rather interested in replacing him. So yup. He gets the ax. I choose Lucina because she is a girl. Could have chosen Chorm. But didn't.

And there is no need to get angry. Truth does hurt at times.

This is a... different post from the usual argumentation here.

This is a tier list of all veterans from Super Smash Bros.
I imagined myself in Sakurai's place regarding the veterans and started thinking on who should have more priority than whom.

Confirmed characters: Mario, Donkey Kong, Link, Samus, Kirby, Fox, Pikachu, Bowser and Pit

God tier characters - The ones that are very important to their series and to Nintendo overall. These are the least likely to get cut and, if I was Sakurai, I would give utmost priority to these characters.

Yoshi, Luigi, Captain Falcon, Peach, Zelda/Sheik, Marth, Ganondorf, Wario, Zero Suit Samus, Olimar, Diddy Kong and King Dedede

High tier characters - Not as important, but still highly iconic. This second batch contains lesser known characters from Melee and some Brawl newcomers that aren't as important to their franchises.

Ness, Ice Climbers, Mewtwo, Mr. Game & Watch, Falco, Meta Knight, Pokémon Trainer, R.O.B.

Middle tier characters - These have their share of popularity, but their importance is not as great as the ones above.

Roy, Lucas, Ike, Lucario and Jigglypuff and Wolf

Low tier characters - The ones with least importance and third party characters. The latter have lower priority due to licensing issues. These would be the likeliest to not return.

Dr. Mario, Young Link, Pichu, Toon Link, Snake and Sonic

This list is, of course, biased, since it's an hypothetical situation where I was thinking "what priority would I give to the veterans, if I was Sakurai?"

If anyone wants to share any thoughts on this list, just fire away.

Moved wolf down. I can live with that. Of course, the characters that will not return will be

Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Toon Link, Lucario, Ike, Lucas, Roy, and Wolf.
Everyone else should reappear.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Ike is still old hat.

"Hi, I know nothing about Fire Emblem, watch me as I look ignorant." I'm curious to know, did you know that Ike was the main character for two games? Really, I'm curious.

You know what, I'm just going to point you to the post I made on vets: http://smashboards.com/threads/roster-prediction-discussion-thread.336018/page-140#post-15608050 Here. Have fun.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You can not change that fact. It is true.
I am not going to add IMO after every sentence. That will just be silly. And Ike is based on Marth.
As for Lucina being more different. I have no idea. I hate FE. Not a fan of the series. I know she is a girl. She is well liked and Ike is old news. So boom.

P.S. You admit that you hate FE and know nothing about. So when you added a character clearly just another Marrth you (like with everything you say) have no idea what you are talking about. And there you go stating something that clearly isn't true and that there is proof against is a fact. WHO ARE YOU??? How can you know nothing about anything and still claim what you say to be fact? Please do not come to forums intentionally saying stupid stuff to get us all riled up. I can not take you seriously anymore so I should just put you on ignore. (Also typing "Boom" after saying something that makes nos sense and you admit you know nothing about does not prove your non existent point.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If you ( and everyone) didn't love a certain series, then there would be no reason to include a character from that certain franchise.

 

[Frostwraith]

>Says Ike is based on Marth and should be cut.
>Wants Lucina in Smash.

[collapse="Marth and Lucina - SPOILERS FOR AWAKENING!!!"]

[/collapse]

Need I to say more?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If you ( and everyone) didn't love a certain series, then there would be no reason to include a character from that certain franchise.

You mean like Prince Sable?

 

[drag0nscythe]

"Hi, I know nothing about Fire Emblem, watch me as I look ignorant." I'm curious to know, did you know that Ike was the main character for two games? Really, I'm curious.

You know what, I'm just going to point you to the post I made on vets: http://smashboards.com/threads/roster-prediction-discussion-thread.336018/page-140#post-15608050 Here. Have fun.

Hi I know that a new FE game came out and everyone is begging for Chrom and Lucina. Both of which are now more important than Ike.
Everyone can see it.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Ike is still old hat. We all know it and everyone aside from people in this topic are rather interested in replacing him. So yup. He gets the ax. I choose Lucina because she is a girl. Could have chosen Chorm. But didn't.

Yup. Ike is totally irrelevant and unimportant nowadays. Which is why IS decided to give him a descendant in Awakening.

Spoiler

Hi I know that a new FE game came out and everyone is begging for Chrom and Lucina. Both of which are now more important than Ike.
Everyone can see it.

No. Not to say that there aren't legit Chrom/Lucina fans, but the vast majority of fans are more expecting Chrom than asking for him.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Also Drag0n, come up with something better than "HE'S AN OLD HAT" because you're really boring me with that reasoning. Try harder, or well, actually put an effort. All I've noticed is that and your RIDICULOUS reasoning of Marth and Ike as clones.

And not only the Forbidden 7 but other facts revealed to us from the lease being out for Brawl prove that it was possible early development at least to have 3 FE characters. While I've said it's far-fetched, it could happen now.

 

[BluePikmin11]

You mean like Prince Sable?

You need to play the game first of all..

 

[Frostwraith]

Never have I seen so much stupidity in my life. Blegh, this is even worse than watching those GameFAQs morons.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Hi I know that a new FE game came out and everyone is begging for Chrom and Lucina. Both of which are now more important than Ike.
Everyone can see it.

LUCINA IS MARTH WITH LONGER HAIR AND A VAGINA. How is that better than Ike? Why not have Marth, Ike, and Lucina or Chrom? Oh, right because you say they are gonna have a cutting frenzy and Ike is inexplicably a Marth clone for no reason other than them both being FE reps.

 

[FalKoopa]

My next prediction roster:

Although Geno may be a risky choice, I would put King K. Rool over Geno if it didn't happen.
I added Isaac, because simply, I think the ability to become an AT proves that Isaac is something, and the fact that there was a sequel a few years later that, leads to a new conclusion I came up. Most of the inclusions involve their uniqueness.

If you're seriously expecting such a huge roster, prepare yourself to be disappointed.

I would easily cut Prof. Layton, Prince of Sable, Geno, AR Man and Wonder Red.

 

[drag0nscythe]

LUCINA IS MARTH WITH LONGER HAIR AND A VAGINA. How is that better than Ike? Why not have Marth, Ike, and Lucina or Chrom? Oh, right because you say they are gonna have a cutting frenzy and Ike is inexplicably a Marth clone for no reason other than them both being FE reps.

not cutting frenzy. Realistic Roster size expectations. 40 to 45 characters is all that there is.

 

[MagnesD3]

Moved wolf down. I can live with that. Of course, the characters that will not return will be

Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Toon Link, Lucario, Ike, Lucas, Roy, and Wolf.
Everyone else should reappear.

What makes you sound ridiculous is the fact that you act like you know that these characters will not return, when you see something like WFT come to fruition you should maybe stop and think hey, maybe we dont know anything really....

 

[BluePikmin11]

If you're seriously expecting such a huge roster, prepare yourself to be disappointed.

I would easily cut Prof. Layton , Prince of Sable, Geno, AR Man and Wonder Red.

Uniqueness is the key reason why I added them.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Hi I know that a new FE game came out and everyone is begging for Chrom and Lucina. Both of which are now more important than Ike.

HOW THE HELL ARE THEY MORE IMPORTANT THAN IKE WHO HAS BEEN THE LORD IN TWO GAMES INTERNATIONALLY RELEASED?! Gahhhh
WHAT. DRUGS. ARE. YOU. ON. and WHERE. CAN. I GET SOME?

No, really, I want to know how you gathered this from a series that has almost different protagonists every time. What is your definition of "Important" because it's surely far out there.

Lucina is not more important, especially since she can die in there and hold no more relevance to the plot. Chrom and Robin would be the characters (Either one) and they're just more recent, that's about it. Plus by the time we knew the game was popular is probably too late for the most part. Zing.

Yup. Ike is totally irrelevant and unimportant nowadays. Which is why IS decided to give him a descendant in Awakening.

This as well. I completely forgot about this.[/quote]

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Lucina should get in because shes a girl? Really? That's your reasoning?

That's pretty bad reasoning. She would be the EXACT same as Marth, in both appearance, and assumably her fighting style. As far as I know, Ike is one of the most popular lords of the series. He is not considered "old" to most of the Smash fanbase.

The problem with people "accepting" your thought process, is that your logic is inconsistent. The "old hat" argument could be used on several characters. Yet it isn't used against Marth, Jigglypuff, Ganondorf etc... You can't use an argument for one character and then not have it apply to the other.

I'm assuming you haven't played Awakening, and if you haven't I would recommend that you don't say Lucina would be a good choice. While it is an opinion, saying she would be different is far from the truth. Everything about her was based off of Marth, literally. Ike looks nothing like Marth, has a different personality, uses a different type of sword, and has a different playstyle in Smash. He is not a clone at all.