Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[FalKoopa]

Doesn't Toon Link represent the (toon) side of Zelda franchise, the variety of Zelda games have designs like Toon Link. He's definitely not going to be removed.

I'm not that confident on his return. But I can hope.

 

[Deleted member]

I can absolutely confirm the following:

Spoiler

We don't know jack squat what's going to happen.

 

[Wigglytuff ★]

There's a difference between making an educated guess and stretching a fact to its extremes.

Acknowledging the possibility of cuts to make room for newcomers is hardly taking anything "to its extremes." Frankly, losing Toon Link, Ike, Lucario, Lucas, and even Wolf is a fairly modest cut, regardless of anyone's personal opinions on these characters. Doesn't mean its a sure thing, but the possibility is not insignificant.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I'm... not ready to reply to all of this.

There's always the possibility of DLC. Sakurai isn't against it, after all.

Still keeping my expectations low, though.

I CTRL+F'd Sakurai and found 42 results on one page. I mean, I understand how he does a good deal of the work and I'm not discrediting him, but not only will this game have more producers but you might want to check out the name "Yo****o Higuchi" who's part of the Namco side who's also a director. This is just based on what we know right now.

DLC is still very possible.

1. Ike is based purely on Marth.

2. Still does not change the fact that 40 is a very realistic number.
3. Lucario is old hat. Mewtwo will probably replace him.
4. Wolf is a clone.
5. Link to say there will be two links. I want to see proof on that.

1. No, Ike is not based on Marth. The two have very different playstyles for starters (Where-as Roy is just a slower Marth) where Ike has a lot of heavy game and Marth has a lot of air game. I don't know what you're smoking or if you're so far up there that you won't even change your mind or consider another possibility, but side B is totally different (One with a combo, the other one just moving straight), Up B plays totally differently, their charge attacks play differently. Hell, only B and Down B play a little bit differently. Not even the sword attacks are the same.
2. HOW THE HELL IS 40 A REALISTIC NUMBER THAT'S FIVE MORE THAN BRAWL YOU DIMWIT GAH.
3. I wouldn't call one of the most popular, one of the most well received characters in Brawl, and one of the first choices an "Old hat".
4. No, Wolf is not that much of a clone. He has similar attacks, sure, but they all have different animations and work differently.
5. I'd ask someone else but Sakurai feels it's very important to represent both links.

Aether is just taking Marths move and making it come back down.

That is the easiest derivative to see.

Apprehensive or not, there are 5 characters that can be cut with no loss.

Ike
Lucario
Toon Link
Lucas
Wolf.

Cutting PT, which everyone seems to call for. Or atleast replace his pokemon.

"Hi, I know nothing about Game Design"

Like I said before, I am not going to argue straw men here.

You know what,

SF4 cut Q from Street fighter 3.
KoF 13 cut many characters from the past.
SC5 cut the scythe guy and Kalek.
Tekken 6 cut many people (Tekken Tag 2 had everyone though)
Guilty Gear XX cannot decide to keep Justice or not at times.

Q was cut because nobody cared for Q, also, SSF4.
KoF has so many installments more than any others that it's understandable at this point for balance
SC5 cut TWO CHARACTERS. Both of which were commented on with reason and if I remember right, aren't down for the count from returning
You kinda destroyed your point with TT2. Furthermore, they rotate.
Guilty Gear... Yeah I'll give you points for that since I don't know much about that
Mortal Kombat didn't cut anyone or had everyone as DLC to my memory
Darkstalkers has kept everyone.
Killer Instinct, a franchise that has less reasoning for keeping everyone, has kept everyone.
BlazBlue has kept everyone.
It was said with MvC3 that if they didn't have to deal with licensing rights they were a lot more likely to keep more characters
Dissidia kept everyone (That's two games but still)

I can go on if you absolutely find the need to. There's usually SOME explainable reasons behind cuts

Lucina would be more of a clone to Marth than Ike....

Don't worry. Drag0n here is clearly biased. Moving on.

Saying Ridley is a boss because Yellow Devil appeared in the Mega Man trailer is like comparing a shovel with a book.

^
Plus the difference is... Wait, do I even have to go there? I mean when I get to the point of why Ridley can still be playable and why Yellow Devil won't be... Do I have to?

But like melee, we can make educated guesses.

Goodbye Wolf, Ike, Lucario, Lucas and Toon Link.

Uh...
I...

I wish I had the headdesk emote. All of those said characters are still relevant.

So, I've taking Sakurai comments very seriously and realized that there will be massive cuts. Brace yourselves for the most cut-happy roster ever.

Allow me to explain:

- Luigi was removed because he was a Mario clone, and was hogging up space for someone more unique, like Fawful.
- Ganondorf was removed due to being a Capt. Falcon clone, replaced by Vaati, another recurring villian.
- Similar case for Toon Link, replaced by Tingle.
- Kind Dedede was removed because he is clearly a Kirby clone (multiple jumps and inhale), replaced by Waddle Dee.
- Falco was replaced by Krystal who is forced to unique because of her staff.
- Wolf is a Fox clone. Replace with General Pepper.
- Vanilla Mewtwo is irrelevant, and so is Lucario. So only his new form will appear.
- Gardevoir was added because Gen 3 needs a rep and Smash needs more females.
- Ike was cut because he's a clone, like drag0nscythe pointed out. Replaced with Tharja who is a female, a mage and an FE13 character as well.
- Lucas was removed because he was a Ness clone. Replaced with Porky.

- Ridley wasn't added because he's too big.
- King K. Rool wasn't added because he's irrelevant.
- Palutena wasn't added because of Sakurai's bias against his own characters.
- Snake & Sonic won't return because they are guests.

Spoiler

Now seriously, if anyone talks of cuts again, I'll shoot them.

Needs more cuts. Now.

 

[FalKoopa]

Frankly, losing Toon Link, Ike, Lucario, Lucas, and even Wolf is a fairly modest cut.

>5 cuts
>Modest

You serious?

 

[TheTuninator]

Acknowledging the possibility of cuts to make room for newcomers is hardly taking anything "to its extremes." Frankly, losing Toon Link, Ike, Lucario, Lucas, and even Wolf is a fairly modest cut, regardless of anyone's personal opinions on these characters. Doesn't mean its a sure thing, but the possibility is not insignificant.

I wouldn't call that a modest cut. Melee to Brawl had a similar amount, but most of those characters were clones, and some were not very well liked to boot. Out of the five you've just listed, only one is a clone, and all are at least decently liked.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Okay since we're playing the "Why ___ should/shouldn't be cut" game, I'm gonna leave all this here. I'm not even going to mention "Has been in Smash Bros before". Watch. (I might reference to how they play in Smash Bros and anti-argue as to why they're not clones)

Ike - Not only (Much like Lucario and Lucas, remember, the lease for the game is out so if you can find anyone who can talk about helping out on Brawl, you can squeeze them for all they're worth) has he appeared in two games but he's appeared in two games that sold modestly well for their respective. No, the characters that sell the most don't magically need to be in. He IS the face of Fire Emblem in the U.S. even if his game is not the most recent. Yes, Chrom is pretty and all and his hair floats in the wind, but once more, Ike does hold that face among fans in the U.S.. He's what we have to their Marth. Yes, maybe to a lesser extent, but he is. Plus, he has a sole unique moveset with being one of the more unique newcomers to Brawl sharing many traits we don't have. A heavy swords user? Who else has that? Samurai Goroh? Well, there's a fact to rip open already. Goroh uses a Katana. He got in based on mostly just FE9 last time, so he's still fresh in with his FE10 design. There's not as much reason to argue against him. I can see why people put him as first on their cuts list though; I can see us getting only two FE characters again. Though, really, just his face status is good enough to notice at face value. And no, Marth isn't pretty face value just for having the whole Lucina thing in the U.S.. If we got FE3 or if we got a console game from Marth, maybe I could say more.

Lucario - I don't know much about Pokemon so stop me if you've heard this before but even before Smash he was really popular. His popularity belked down a little bit in Japan when they found out he wasn't legendary but not much more than that, and not even much to the Smash scene. Even without the Forbidden 7, based on previous data we have (I did read a thread that actually made sense out of villains like Wolf, Dedede, and Bowser missing the boat on Smash 64 so if I can find that again, I will) we can say two things about Mewtwo based on moveset as well. Mewtwo wasn't 100% intended to never come back, and Lucario was never meant to replace Mewtwo. A lot of the arguments asides from "He's old" (And again, much like other Poke's, he's aged well) correlate to Mewtwo which really don't make much sense. Yeah, he's first on the chopping block for Pokemon, but that's like saying "Mario character here" is first on the chopping block. Not as much but yeah.

Wolf - Sorry to break it to you Falco and Krystal fans, but not only was Wolf at least planned at some point for Melee, but Wolf's the most important reoccuring character that isn't Fox or Andross. It helps to note that he takes his own way with the plot later even if you disclude Command and he doesn't sheep on Andross for a personality unlike say, a lot of the Ten Wise Men in Star Ocean 2. That's part of what makes me like him so much. His is kind-of a case like "If we were to get another Mother character" with Masked Man. It just makes sense. Wolf O'Donnell really has no reason to be discluded asides from "CLONES" (Which, I don't think anyone can provide a good argument for and if they do, it's B Moves) though I will give the clone guys the fact that he could distance himself a bit more, and "STAR FOX GOTS TOO MANY REPS". Much like Lucario, he might be first on chopping block because of Veterans, but even then, how can we be so sure? I mean, I'll admit I don't see Falco going anywhere, but...

I can go on, but it's a waste of my time. Also I will say that I completely despise his Brawl design despite the fact he's my secondary. No, really.

Lucas - I'm probably the biggest Mother fan here. Maybe not Golden Sun fan, but Mother and Mario RPG's I can say I have covered. Okay, Lucas is the most recent protagonist, the one from the game everyone's actually... surprisingly played more and give more of the best feedback to (Earthbound's had more ROM's downloaded but not as many complete it), and the character that much like Wolf but even more proven, was intended all the way up since Smash 64. Even to add to that, he was intended to be in over Ness. Each time. (Except maybe Brawl) - He's hardly that much of a clone but he could use a bit of re-working with PK Freeze, but really, to a series that's already ended and only gets it's fill in Smash Bros, I can agree that we don't really need a third character that much (Be minded Masked Man is my most supported character and I would take the removal of Ness or Lucas for him. Also be minded I love both Lucas and Ness and I wouldn't normally say "I'd remove ___ for ___" on many characters) There's not much to argue against him. Sure, he may be a bit chopping block, but fans love him. Sakurai loves him. He's a completely different entity to Ness and even arguably has more importance than Ness. There's much more for him really, and a lot more positives than negatives. I can understand Ike and Lucario a bit more, but why people are getting so cut happy with Wolf and Lucas is really still oblivious to me. Maybe I'm on my own universe.

Toon Link - I don't got much that hasn't already been said but since the A Link Between Worlds Link shares the same voice (At least Golden said that) sure, just go with that. I don't see the big deal in having two links anyways. They should differentiate a bit in moveset more, yes, but other then that I really don't see the problem. It's not like you have much more from this series. Granted, most series don't even have a character left or just one. I can go on if I need to.

 

[N3ON]

In my mind a modest cut would be three or fewer characters, all of whom are semi-clones (or will have their movesets carried over to another character).

 

[TheTuninator]

Very good points for the most part, but I think it's quite possible that Awakening has usurped PoR and RD as the "face" of Fire Emblem here in the US, or failing that, it soon will.

Awakening's popular enough that I can absolutely see us getting 3 reps. FE is on the verge of becoming a more mainstream series, and if Nintendo is smart they can and will use Smash to exploit that.

Wolf I think is placed on the chopping block just to get Krystal in, because Star Fox will never see 4 reps, and that irritates me. As you observe, Wolf is far more important than Krystal. Really hope we don't see her, as it's not worth losing any of the 3 current space animals.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Very good points for the most part, but I think it's quite possible that Awakening has usurped PoR and RD as the "face" of Fire Emblem here in the US, or failing that, it soon will.

Thanks, also I should point out that while the Roster may not be 100% right now, I don't think Awakening's popularity will have much of an effect, and I don't think Chrom or Robin will turn into the face. They do have a comparible amount of popularity as to say, Sigurd or Leaf. I can see us getting two, I can see us getting three. As they say, que sera sera. Whatever happens, happens

Wolf I think is placed on the chopping block just to get Krystal in, because Star Fox will never see 4 reps, and that irritates me. As you observe, Wolf is far more important than Krystal. Really hope we don't see her, as it's not worth losing any of the 3 current space animals.

Wolf is far more important than Falco as well. I guess Krystal holds more overall importance to Falco, but I don't really see why they can't just push the envelope and have four. I've seen other crossovers that have truly done scarrier. I mean, just to start, Darkstalkers was about to get four-five in UMvC3. I don't think it's good to dive into conclusions with this series. Frankly, I'm kind-of wondering if the producers pay attention to some stuff with certain series anyways.

In my mind a modest cut would be three or fewer characters, all of whom are semi-clones (or will have their movesets carried over to another character).

I'd say 4. 5-6 is heading a but into un-modest territory, but it REALLY pends on who it is. If we got three and the third-party characters (Or one of them) I would understand.

 

[TheTuninator]

Thanks, also I should point out that while the Roster may not be 100% right now, I don't think Awakening's popularity will have much of an effect, and I don't think Chrom or Robin will turn into the face. They do have a comparible amount of popularity as to say, Sigurd or Leaf. I can see us getting two, I can see us getting three. As they say, que sera sera. Whatever happens, happens.

Awakening has definitely been out long enough for its popularity to be noticed and affect the roster, though of course we cannot say what effect it might have if any. I tend to be of the opinion that current relevance and popularity does play an important role when debating what characters to add to already represented franchises, but of course as you observe we'll have to wait and see. I do hope that FE gets bumped to 3 reps, as the series deserves it and that way Ike is guaranteed to stay.

Wolf is far more important than Falco as well. I guess Krystal holds more overall importance to Falco, but I don't really see why they can't just push the envelope and have four. I've seen other crossovers that have truly done scarrier. I mean, just to start, Darkstalkers was about to get four-five in UMvC3. I don't think it's good to dive into conclusions with this series. Frankly, I'm kind-of wondering if the producers pay attention to some stuff with certain series anyways.

I guess they could put in 4 Star Fox reps, but nothing about Krystal screams out for inclusion to make me expect a fourth, and with such a massive amount of available potential newcomers from new or underrepresented franchises, as well as Star Fox sitting dead in the water since Brawl, it'd be very odd for Star Fox to pick up a fourth given Sakurai's selection habits. The series certainly doesn't deserve 4, in any case.

I'd call a "modest" cut three or less characters, not counting third parties. Maybe more if some of the characters are clones, expected losses (Lucario) or not incredibly popular (R.O.B).

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Awakening has definitely been out long enough for its popularity to be noticed and affect the roster, though of course we cannot say what effect it might have if any. I tend to be of the opinion that current relevance and popularity does play an important role when debating what characters to add to already represented franchises, but of course as you observe we'll have to wait and see. I do hope that FE gets bumped to 3 reps, as the series deserves it and that way Ike is guaranteed to stay.

Really, that's the best thing with FE. The only characters who hold any shot for the most part are Ike, Chrom, and Robin. I hope Masked Marth becomes an alt as well. I really do hope it gets bumped to three characters because seeing the removal of Ike would really be saddening. Ike, Lucario, and Lucas all easily deserve to stay.

The series certainly doesn't deserve 4, in any case.

I don't feel like requoting what I said in probable character roster but it isn't nearly that bad. It'd be bad if we say, got General Pepper or Pigma, but adding Krystal is a fantastic addition that people did want. People have been saying "OH BUT TK VILLAGER NOBODY WANTED" which is totally wrong since pre/during/post brawl, people really wanted Villager and Tom Nook.

edit 2: The only ones that are really clones by that much are named Ganondorf and Toon Link. Maybe Falco to a lesser extent.

 

[TheTuninator]

Oh, I know people do want Krystal quite a lot. I just don't think that you can justify four reps for the franchise. It's not that big and most of the recent games have received a lukewarm reception at best.

Of course, I am a bit bitter when it comes to the subject of overpopulating existing franchises that don't need more reps, as Advance Wars is most likely going to be left out to dry again despite being perfectly deserving of a rep. That extends across new franchises in general, too; I'd rather see people like Shulk, Little Mac, Dillon, and Isaac over a 4th Star Fox rep or a 5th Mario rep or a 6th Zelda rep or a 7th Pokemon rep. New blood, y'know? Fire Emblem, Metroid, KI, and DK could all use more reps, but any franchise which has 3+ reps right now doesn't need any more.

 

[Deleted member]

Falco is more important than Krystal.
Anyone who says otherwise is bloody delusional.

 

[TheTuninator]

Falco is more important than Krystal.
Anyone who says otherwise is bloody delusional.

Starfox 64 is still by far the most popular and best-regarded game in the series. Cutting anyone from that game for another secondary character from a later game just doesn't make sense.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Oh, I know people do want Krystal quite a lot. I just don't think that you can justify four reps for the franchise. It's not that big and most of the recent games have received a lukewarm reception at best.

Of course, I am a bit bitter when it comes to the subject of overpopulating existing franchises that don't need more reps, as Advance Wars is most likely going to be left out to dry again despite being perfectly deserving of a rep. That extends across new franchises in general, too; I'd rather see people like Shulk, Little Mac, Dillon, and Isaac over a 4th Star Fox rep or a 5th Mario rep or a 6th Zelda rep or a 7th Pokemon rep. New blood, y'know? Fire Emblem, Metroid, KI, and DK could all use more reps, but any franchise which has 3+ reps right now doesn't need any more.

I'd rather see new franchises over us getting more supporting characters for others. I've said it before and anyone who's seen my rosters has known that. I want Shulk, Dillon, and Isaac as well. Let's keep hoping.

Falco is more important than Krystal.
Anyone who says otherwise is bloody delusional.

It's really debatable, but I've had this argument before so I'm just going to stop there and give you the point on that because Falco's had two Smash appearances and we've seen a preference of Vets over Newcomers for obvious reasons, programming reasons, and art reasons.

Starfox 64 is still by far the most popular and best-regarded game in the series. Cutting anyone from that game for another secondary character from a later game just doesn't make sense.

...Actually in recent years, fans have discovered SF2 exists (which depending on where you look, actually gets more love to an extent than SF64. Shocking, I know) and Adventures and Assault have been getting a lot more praise.

Though yeah, the best way to handle this is really have all four at this point. I've wanted that since Brawl. A Star Fox character has always been my main or secondary. and the smash games are their best appearences lololol

 

[Deleted member]

Falco could be changed up a bit, though.

Like get rid of Falco Phantasm, give him the BFG from Assault. (The Homing Launcher)

Fox's Specials were designed with Arwing actions in mind, and yet one was ignored; homing bombs.
Giving Falco a Homing Launcher would help cover that aspect.

And replace the Fire Bird with something like Ken the Eagle's Bird Shoot technique from Tatsunoko vs. Capcom.

 

[drag0nscythe]

>5 cuts
>Modest

You serious?

5 cuts is modest. Especially if it is Wolf, Lucario, Toon Link, Ike and Lucas.
Replace Ike with New FE Rep
Replace Lucario with Newtwo.
3 new to go. Boom. Done. I call it modest.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Falco could be changed up a bit, though.

Like get rid of Falco Phantasm, give him the BFG from Assault. (The Homing Launcher)


Fox's Specials were designed with Arwing actions in mind, and yet one was ignored; homing bombs.
Giving Falco a Homing Launcher would help cover that aspect.

And replace the Fire Bird with something like Ken the Eagle's Bird Shoot technique from Tatsunoko vs. Capcom.

Golden, if you didn't already, you know I really like you. I lilke you even more with those moveset ideas. They practically changed most of him from Melee anyways.

Also while we're at it, instead of talking about the characters (Because we know Wolf, Falco, and Krystal are all great additions) I should say we need a stage that ISN'T on a ship and we need this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szX3SETqzf4 This song. Not expecting it at all but it's my favorite Star Fox song.

 

[FalKoopa]

5 cuts is modest. Especially if it is Wolf, Lucario, Toon Link, Ike and Lucas.
Replace Ike with New FE Rep
Replace Lucario with Newtwo.
3 new to go. Boom. Done. I call it modest.

*Sees the word "replace"*

You've lost ALL credibility. I'm not bothering myself with your posts anymore.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

*Sees the word "replace"*

You've lost all credibility. I'm not bothering myself with your posts anymore.

What's even funnier is in all technicality, Lucario and Ike didn't replace Roy and Mewtwo, lol.

I would respond to Drag0n but I'm not going to debate with people who aren't willing to at least have an open mind.

 

[drag0nscythe]

*Sees the word "replace"*

You've lost ALL credibility. I'm not bothering myself with your posts anymore.

Easier than saying Cut Ike. Put in Lucina. Cut Lucario. Put in Mewtwo.

What's even funnier is in all technicality, Lucario and Ike didn't replace Roy and Mewtwo, lol.

I would respond to Drag0n but I'm not going to debate with people who aren't willing to at least have an open mind.

For all purposes. Yes they did. Sakurai could have worked on Mewtwo and Roy first, but chose not to. As far the system works, Lucario inherited Mewtwos spot and some of his moves. Ike did the same.

And open minded on what? I see everyone else being close minded due to the fact that they all believe that the game has to have 45+ characters. Sorry. But that is close minded in a nut shell. Still. yes. Ike replaced Roy. One FE character was cut. One was added. I call that a replacement.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I love all this flair over my Ike opinion. It is missing the real point of the argument that people will be cut and that the real roster will be about 40 characters.
Even if we ignore the fact about ike/marth. Ike will still be cut. He is an old hat and was only in because his game was the newest in the line. Roy was very popular in melee and if they wanted, they could have retooled him. They chose to cut him out. Ike will suffer the same fate. Lucario will be cut in favor of Mewtwo. Lucario was only chosen because he was the "Mewtwo" of the newest generation at the time.

Toon Link, Wolf and Lucas all are semi-clones of Link, Fox and Ness. None of them really matter to much in those regards.

Logically, if we replace Ike with say Lucina, Lucario with Mewtwo. That leaves us with 3 new character slots to total at 39 (like brawl). I am sure more characters will get cut. Depends on who and what. I suspect PT will get the ax. He was an experiment and given how most players treated him, he will not be missed (IE hacking to remove what made him original). That gives us 3 more spaces. Round to 40 and we have 7 spaces for new and unique movesets.

Megaman, Wii Fit Trainer and Villager take up three spaces. That leaves 4 new spaces for new and unique movesets.
That is logical and would fit with all his comments.

He has said that we have reached the limit of the amount of characters. He has also said that he will add as many as he can. He is considering balancing and given rumors, there may be a customization feature. Given this information, 40 is very reasonable. No more than 45. I would also say.

40-45 is most reasonable. Anything more is wishful thinking. I could see less given how the 3DS is a more personal experience and both games are to share the same roster.

Oh, and for reference.
http://super-smash-bros.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Clones_or_not_clones?

Just for some giggles.

I am going to expound on my logic for characters.

Mario - Duh
Luigi - Duh
Bowser - Duh
Peach - Duh
Donkey Kong - Duh
Diddy and Dixie - This was an idea he wanted to do in Brawl, but was talked out of it. Given how it is a new group and that the new DKs are so team based, representing that in Brawl would work. IT would also have an Ice climbers dynamic, but be fresh because you can switch to get a new moveset.
Yoshi - Duh
Wario - He is a mario character.
Villager - Announced
Pikmin and Olimar - While I think it might not be Olimar this time around, a Pikmin rep will exist.
Ness - Duh
Link - Represents the more modern Zelda Games
Zelda / Sheik - Represents the OoT and MM Games
Toon Ganon - Represents the WW and Toon styled games. With him, it represents almost the entire series. Makes sense given this information.
Samus/ZZS - Duh / Why not keep it?
Fox - Duh
Falco - Very popular and has been in since Melee
Captain Falcon - Duh
Kirby - Duh
Meta-Knight - He is from Sakurai's series. He has a 50/50 cut, but I seem him making it again
King Dedede - Sakurai wanted him in the original and he was in brawl.
Marth - Poster boy of the series
Lucina - One of the most popular characters in the new game.
Mr. Game and Watch - Unique
ROB - Last games unexpected. - Unique
Pikachu - Duh
Jigglypuff - Duh
Mewtwo/Newtwo - Cut from melee, but he is the new poster boy for the new gen.
Pit - Announced
Ice Climbers - Unique
Lil Mac - I am unsure about him. I might cut him out in favor of someone else. Still, he fits for now.
Wii Fit trainer - Just pure awesome.

Megaman - Announced
Sonic - Wanted again. Sega and Nintendo are also buddy buddy at the moment.
Snake - Doubt a return, but one can hope.
Pac Man - Yes Sakurai said that just because namco is helping, it does not guarantee a rep. But in all reality, it will probably happen.

Why not King K Rool, or Ridley.

If you remember back to the megaman trailer. What was at the very end? The yellow devil. We saw it forming. This could mean a few things. One thing is for certain. Bosses are back. If it is mini bosses during a revamped classic mode, or another SSE, we do not know. But bosses do appear to be returning.

With that, King K Rool and Ridley may be going there.

---
Now to cut charaters.

Lucario - Hold hat compared to Mewtwo.
Ike - Hold hat compared to Chrom, Lucina, etc.
Lucas - He might come back. Sakurai seems to have a fondness for the Mother series. Might replace lil mac with him.
Wolf - Clone of falco. Poinless landmaster tank.
Toon Link - He is Link, but in toon form. Why waste a space with him. Throw in Toon Ganondorf and get the WW rep out of the way. If people are going to miss Ganondorfs moves (which are based on Falcons if people remember), give them to Falcon in some way shape or form.
PT - Might add him back also. Thinking about it. Many people hated being forced to switch pokemon. I mean everyone. They specifically hacked the game to remove the tired function and to seperate the characters out. With that, he was mainly a failure.

Young Link - Will never return
Roy - Very old Hat
Pichu - I liked him, but he was just the Dan of Smash. No point in returning.
Dr. Mario - A costume if any.

Oh.....my.......god.

Okay, I am rofl when you say Ike is a clone and that's a FACT!? I am 100% convinced that you never actually played Brawl. Even more unbelievable (get this folks) You replace Ike for thinking he is another Marth with someone who actually is Marth but, with long hair and a vagina. You seriously thought Lucina was different from Marth compared to Ike? That's your solution? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?! You're like "even if we ignore the fact about Ike/Marth" What Fact??? The fact you have no idea what you're talking about. And you say in reality he WILL be cut. Who the heck are you? Are you developing the game? Do you know anything about Ike at all???

"If you remember back to the megaman trailer. What was at the very end? The yellow devil. We saw it forming. This could mean a few things. One thing is for certain. Bosses are back. If it is mini bosses during a revamped classic mode, or another SSE, we do not know. But bosses do appear to be returning."

Where do you get these conclusions!?!?!?!?

Logically, if we replace Ike with say Lucina, Lucario with Mewtwo. That leaves us with 3 new character slots to total at 39 (like brawl). I am sure more characters will get cut. Depends on who and what. I suspect PT will get the ax. He was an experiment and given how most players treated him, he will not be missed (IE hacking to remove what made him original). That gives us 3 more spaces. Round to 40 and we have 7 spaces for new and unique movesets.

Wolf - Clone of falco. Poinless landmaster tank.
Toon Link - He is Link, but in toon form. Why waste a space with him. Throw in Toon Ganondorf and get the WW rep out of the way. If people are going to miss Ganondorfs moves (which are based on Falcons if people remember), give them to Falcon in some way shape or form.

"There is nothing that people will say that will change this thought"

I have come to a conclusion we can all agree on. You are not being serious. You have come to this forum to state the most ridiculous bull**** just to get us all riled up. Either that or you under the influence, have been lied to, or simply have no idea what you're talking about in the slightest. I don't think any of us believe anybody could possibly believe this is true let alone STATE IT AS FACT.


I end with this

 

[BluePikmin11]

If you're going to cut Lucas, someone else from the Mother series needs to join also. But that's unlikely to happen. Since Lucas is a great representation for the Mother series.
Think about it
Lucario > Mewtwo
Ike > Roy
Toon Link > Young Link
The ones that were cut were pretty similar to each other.
But really cuts are not necessary this time around.
(Except maybe Lucario if people want the "hot" pokemon)

 

[josh bones]

Oh.....my.......god.

Okay, I am rofl when you say Ike is a clone and that's a FACT!? I am 100% convinced that you never actually played Brawl. Even more unbelievable (get this folks) You replace Ike for thinking he is another Marth with someone who actually is Marth but, with long hair and a vagina. You seriously thought Lucina was different from Marth compared to Ike? That's your solution? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?! You're like "even if we ignore the fact about Ike/Marth" What Fact??? The fact you have no idea what you're talking about. And you say in reality he WILL be cut. Who the heck are you? Are you developing the game? Do you know anything about Ike at all???

"If you remember back to the megaman trailer. What was at the very end? The yellow devil. We saw it forming. This could mean a few things. One thing is for certain. Bosses are back. If it is mini bosses during a revamped classic mode, or another SSE, we do not know. But bosses do appear to be returning."

Where do you get these conclusions!?!?!?!?

Logically, if we replace Ike with say Lucina, Lucario with Mewtwo. That leaves us with 3 new character slots to total at 39 (like brawl). I am sure more characters will get cut. Depends on who and what. I suspect PT will get the ax. He was an experiment and given how most players treated him, he will not be missed (IE hacking to remove what made him original). That gives us 3 more spaces. Round to 40 and we have 7 spaces for new and unique movesets.

Wolf - Clone of falco. Poinless landmaster tank.
Toon Link - He is Link, but in toon form. Why waste a space with him. Throw in Toon Ganondorf and get the WW rep out of the way. If people are going to miss Ganondorfs moves (which are based on Falcons if people remember), give them to Falcon in some way shape or form.


I have come to a conclusion we can all agree on. You are not being serious. You have come to this forum to state the most ridiculous bull**** just to get us all riled up. Either that or you under the influence, have been lied to, or simply have no idea what you're talking about in the slightest. I don't think any of us believe anybody could possibly believe this is true let alone STATE IT AS FACT.


I end with this

You took the words right out of my mouth

 

[Deleted member]

Golden, if you didn't already, you know I really like you. I lilke you even more with those moveset ideas. They practically changed most of him from Melee anyways.

Also while we're at it, instead of talking about the characters (Because we know Wolf, Falco, and Krystal are all great additions) I should say we need a stage that ISN'T on a ship and we need this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szX3SETqzf4 This song. Not expecting it at all but it's my favorite Star Fox song.

Why, thank you.
I feel flattered.

And yes, I agree that Star Fox 2 should get some degree of representation, like the music. I don't care if it was cancelled, it's still a legit part of the franchise.
Shame it probably won't happen, though.

As for a stage that isn't just a ship, perhaps one of the multiplayer levels in Assault can provide an interesting battlegrounds?

 

[drag0nscythe]

Oh.....my.......god.

Okay, I am rofl when you say Ike is a clone and that's a FACT!? I am 100% convinced that you never actually played Brawl. Even more unbelievable (get this folks) You replace Ike for thinking he is another Marth with someone who actually is Marth but, with long hair and a vagina. You seriously thought Lucina was different from Marth compared to Ike? That's your solution? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?! You're like "even if we ignore the fact about Ike/Marth" What Fact??? The fact you have no idea what you're talking about. And you say in reality he WILL be cut. Who the heck are you? Are you developing the game? Do you know anything about Ike at all???

"If you remember back to the megaman trailer. What was at the very end? The yellow devil. We saw it forming. This could mean a few things. One thing is for certain. Bosses are back. If it is mini bosses during a revamped classic mode, or another SSE, we do not know. But bosses do appear to be returning."

Where do you get these conclusions!?!?!?!?

Logically, if we replace Ike with say Lucina, Lucario with Mewtwo. That leaves us with 3 new character slots to total at 39 (like brawl). I am sure more characters will get cut. Depends on who and what. I suspect PT will get the ax. He was an experiment and given how most players treated him, he will not be missed (IE hacking to remove what made him original). That gives us 3 more spaces. Round to 40 and we have 7 spaces for new and unique movesets.

Wolf - Clone of falco. Poinless landmaster tank.
Toon Link - He is Link, but in toon form. Why waste a space with him. Throw in Toon Ganondorf and get the WW rep out of the way. If people are going to miss Ganondorfs moves (which are based on Falcons if people remember), give them to Falcon in some way shape or form.


I have come to a conclusion we can all agree on. You are not being serious. You have come to this forum to state the most ridiculous bull**** just to get us all riled up. Either that or you under the influence, have been lied to, or simply have no idea what you're talking about in the slightest. I don't think any of us believe anybody could possibly believe this is true let alone STATE IT AS FACT.


I end with this

True hurts the most when it is hard to accept. I think PT will get cut, but no one knows. I am sure the other five will get the ax. Everything else you said did not matter really. Sorry.

Those 5 are most likely to get cut and I am positive 3 out of the 5 will get the ax. I am also sure that we will have 40-45 characters in this game. No more. If Sakurai is going to have trouble adding in all old characters and he is planning on adding new characters, then the limit will be around 40.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Red might get cut for N.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Can we please talk about something else that isn't stupid and obviously not going to happen. You're making people leave the forum. Please start a forum on the ridiculousness of character cutting please.

 

[FalKoopa]

One thing I do appreciate about drag0nscythe is the way he posts. His posts seem to show that he's perfectly in a calm state of mind.

Also one more thing I'd like to bring to everyone's attention:
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/197055...t_have_time_to_bring_all_characters_back.html

The last paragraph of this article:

So we’re not going to cut characters out of the way, we’re going to put in as many characters as we can, we really want to do that, because it's good for the fans and good for all of us. But in the event that we do have to cut some characters, I’d like to apologise in advance to those fans.

Cuts will only take place if they run into problems or time constraints. Cuts are definitely NOT planned.

 

[drag0nscythe]

Can we please talk about something else that isn't stupid and obviously not going to happen. You're making people leave the forum. Please start a forum on the ridiculousness of character cutting please.

Given that

1. Sakurai thinks that the number of charactes in Brawl is a good limit
2. He has said that he will add as many as he can
3. He does not think he can add back everyone who has appeared in a smash before now.

People are getting cut. And this is a roster prediction thread. So this is logical.

I predict Lucario, Wolf, Lucas, Ike and Toon Link will get cut.

I predict that Lucina, Mewtwo/Newtwo combo will be added.
I also think that Sonic will return.

One thing I do appreciate about drag0nscythe is the way he posts. His posts seem to show that he's perfectly in a calm state of mind.

Also one more thing I'd like to bring to everyone's attention:
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/197055...t_have_time_to_bring_all_characters_back.html

The last paragraph of this article:


Cuts will only take place if they run into problems or time constraints. Cuts are definitely NOT planned.

Thanks for the compliment. I will admit that everything I am saying is purely my own personal opinion. None of it has been proven. It is just based on what I have read and seen. Given that I expect the worst (being burned on brawl teaches you as much) for this game as far as roster. I expect cuts. Your link agrees with my stance. I will revise my wording from now on though. I will not say cut. I will say "did not get to them." Because that is probably the most realistic thing that will happen.



You know what hope for and I want to see.
I predict DLC. Of all cut characters after the fact. Would make the game sail in sales also.

 

[Deleted member]

Rate Their Chance Day 1 - Part 2 is up!

Predict Palutena's score, nominate candidates, give thoughts on Mega Man, Villager and Wii Fit Trainer's likelihood and vote for which veterans you don't want to see on Rate Their Chance.

 

[Frostwraith]

The reason I don't post here as frequently as before is because of the insane debates between cut-happy people and people defending that there will be no cuts at all.

I consider both possibilities. I cannot guarantee that the roster will have cuts, nor I can't guarantee that all veterans will return.

Anyway, stop making assumptions like you know what will happen.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Given that

1. Sakurai thinks that the number of charactes in Brawl is a good limit
2. He has said that he will add as many as he can
3. He does not think he can add back everyone who has appeared in a smash before now.

People are getting cut. And this is a roster prediction thread. So this is logical.

I predict Lucario, Wolf, Lucas, Ike and Toon Link will get cut.

I predict that Lucina, Mewtwo/Newtwo combo will be added.
I also think that Sonic will return.

Seriously Lucas is not going to get cut, There's no better replacement character for the Mother series at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

If Ike goes, Lucina's not coming in.
If anything, Chrom would take his place solely as a way to preserve his style. (Not saying Chrom would be a clone if Ike was in the game, but he'd be more Ike-like if Ike was gone).

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Why, thank you.
I feel flattered.

And yes, I agree that Star Fox 2 should get some degree of representation, like the music. I don't care if it was cancelled, it's still a legit part of the franchise.
Shame it probably won't happen, though.

As for a stage that isn't just a ship, perhaps one of the multiplayer levels in Assault can provide an interesting battlegrounds?

<3

Swear I'll PM you and SSBF soon with what I have ready for an update. I think Probable Character Roster is going to look really good soon. It's on my priority for things to do.

Hmm, we could go with Dinosaur Planet or we could go with Corneria on ground. I also like the idea of Sargasso Hideout but I think that was in the background of Lylat Cruise.

Any other thoughts?

I've got an idea to spark up new discussion that isn't about cuts but first back to Star Ocean 2: Why do I play this game so much.

Everything else you said did not matter really. Sorry.

Red might get cut for N.

...

...

...

Are people trying to troll me today or do you all just have an amazing drug?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

True hurts the most when it is hard to accept. I think PT will get cut, but no one knows. I am sure the other five will get the ax. Everything else you said did not matter really. Sorry.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Considering that Super Smash Bros. U and 3D are now in development, I decided to do a roster revamp, with only 45 characters being chosen.

[collapse=Transformations Revision]

Samus -> Zero Suit Samus
Mewtwo -> Awakened Forme Mewtwo[/collapse]

Basically, while making the roster, I went by the following guidelines, in terms of which characters from Brawl would be removed...

1: Characters who have appeared in the first three Super Smash Bros. installments can't be removed.
2: Characters who have appeared in Melee AND Brawl can't be removed, with only one exception, involving Zelda.
3: Characters who have only appeared in Brawl can be at risk of getting removed.

Following those guidelines, I ended up removing the following characters...

*Sheik
*Ike
*Lucas
*Lucario
*R.O.B.
*Solid Snake

Regarding, the Legend of Zelda, I did have the following inputs...

Zelda: Skyward Sword incarnation
Ganondorf: Ocarina of Time incarnation
Toon Link: Wind Waker incarnation

Anyway, this roster may not be the most realistic one out there, but it's just an attempt to make a roster that's not going overboard with the character amounts.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Given that

1. Sakurai thinks that the number of charactes in Brawl is a good limit
2. He has said that he will add as many as he can
3. He does not think he can add back everyone who has appeared in a smash before now.

People are getting cut. And this is a roster prediction thread. So this is logical.

I predict Lucario, Wolf, Lucas, Ike and Toon Link will get cut.

I predict that Lucina, Mewtwo/Newtwo combo will be added.
I also think that Sonic will return.



Thanks for the compliment. I will admit that everything I am saying is purely my own personal opinion. None of it has been proven. It is just based on what I have read and seen. Given that I expect the worst (being burned on brawl teaches you as much) for this game as far as roster. I expect cuts. Your link agrees with my stance. I will revise my wording from now on though. I will not say cut. I will say "did not get to them." Because that is probably the most realistic thing that will happen.



You know what hope for and I want to see.
I predict DLC. Of all cut characters after the fact. Would make the game sail in sales also.

Since you are 100% convinced that your bull**** means anything, there is no point in trying to save you. So all that's left is. How on earth is Lucina more different from Marth than Ike already is?

 

[drag0nscythe]

Considering that Super Smash Bros. U and 3D are now in development, I decided to do a roster revamp, with only 45 characters being chosen.

[collapse=Transformations Revision]

Samus -> Zero Suit Samus
Mewtwo -> Awakened Forme Mewtwo[/collapse]

Basically, while making the roster, I went by the following guidelines, in terms of which characters from Brawl would be removed...

1: Characters who have appeared in the first three Super Smash Bros. installments can't be removed.
2: Characters who have appeared in Melee AND Brawl can't be removed.
3: Characters who have only appeared in Brawl can be at risk of getting removed.

Following those guidelines, I ended up removing the following characters...

*Ike
*Lucas
*Lucario
*R.O.B.
*Solid Snake

Regarding, the Legend of Zelda, I did have the following inputs...

Zelda: Skyward Sword incarnation
Ganondorf: Ocarina of Time incarnation
Toon Link: Wind Waker incarnation

Anyway, this roster may not be the most realistic one out there, but it's just an attempt to make a roster that's not going overboard with the character amounts.

Not a fan of this roster. Rosilina is not important. Zorock is not that important either. We have Newtwo now.
Dixie King is also a meh. Unless she is paired with someone, she will most likely end up as an Assist.
45 Characters sound right, but a bit high.

Since you are 100% convinced that your bull**** means anything, there is no point in trying to save you. So all that's left is. How on earth is Lucina more different from Marth than Ike already is?

How is my bull any different from anyone elses? Is it that you just disagree, so it is off kilter?
I see nothing but opinion here. That is the point of the thread.