Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[SuperBrawler]

For a moderately infamous user, I sure get a **** ton of "likes".

Somewhat over half of your actual post count. Lol.

 

[Morbi]

@TBW:
Pretty much the main things people say Lyn should be in Smash:

-She's a chick. (Because having a vagina makes you special)
-'Murica REPRESENT! ("Was the first Lord Americans had experience with", despite Eliwood being the star of the game itself and Hector being the more major between him and Lyn.)
-Katana-rama! (Even though we've got the likes of Goroh and Takamaru waiting in the wings)

She was also an assist trophy, I am not sure how much validity that has to other speculators; however, it sure does mean a lot to me. I believe that having relevance to Smash is an important aspect, it almost alludes to Sakurai's awareness of the character. It is one of the main reasons I think Waluigi/Dr. Mario have WAY better chances than the typical Bowser Jr./Paper Mario requests.

 

[Deleted member]

@TBW:
Thing is, I couldn't give a rat's ass about a character's potential if I am not fond of the character.


@Morbid:
It really depends.
The Assist Trophy argument is a double-edged sword.

Best counterpoint (and worst at the same time; but to be fair, it's the only counterpoint so far with what little we know) is Mr. Resetti.
He was an Assist in Brawl, and of all Animal Crossing characters, one could see him getting into a fight and bashing skulls the most.
And yet the Villager was included over him due to being more major to the series (being the player character). Yes, Sakurai had ideas for Villager in the past, but those ideas did not lead to him being an Assist where instead Resetti was chosen.

 

[NickerBocker]

There's always Christmas where everyone is most likely gonna get a gift from Sakurai.

This. A direct talking about games coming out next year, and one of them being smash bros, they could reveal one newcomer and that would satisfy alot of people.

I wouldn't call November a bust. We got Marth, a Mario Galaxy stage, Luigi's nose, info on other revealed stages, and some others I'm sure I'm forgetting but its 3:35 am here and I can't sleep.

I think this pace is good. Say we get newcomer reveals in June, that gives us 7 veterans to reveal between now and then at one per month. Not to mention 6 more if a game is a year away. I think some months will be a double reveal but I think that it'll be few and far between.

meh, one character per month is good. We have 15 vetrans already, and if the game is a year out, thats another 12 at least.

12 + 15 = 27 veteran characters. Thats at least half the roster, which gives away a lot of the game. We may also get more newcomers and veterans, maybe a few months has an extra veteran reveal, thats pulling at least 30. The only reason I would support more veteran reveals is because the veterans have been no brainers so far, barrring Sonic and Toon Link. If they start showing some more controversial ones, like Snake, Lucario, Ike and Lucas for example, then it might spark something.

The veteran characters cant create hype for the typical gamer. Newcomers will grab their attention better, and would be better suited coming out closer to release.

The first trailer grabs attention, the second gets people excited

 

[FlareHabanero]

Golden finds Lyn overrated? Quick, jump on the Chrom bandwagon!

I ain't jumping on any petty bandwagons.

 

[Morbi]

To be fair, Sakurai has shown far more since Smash 4's unveil than he did during the aftermath of Brawl's unveil (talking about the second half of 2006 versus the second half of 2013). For Brawl, the only veteran that was confirmed after its 2006 unveil was Fox.

That "hype is dying fast" despite Sakurai giving away far more information at this point than he did with Brawl is very disconcerting. I don't think the hype for Smash 4 is going to reach the highs that Brawl did.

Its definitely going to be the most hyped Nintendo title next year by far though.

You must put things into perspective, Brawl was the title proceeding Melee (probably the best selling Gamecube game with critical acclaim), Brawl was on the best selling home-console (making it universally more desirable as most had a means to purchase the game). Smash 4 is on that brick of a Wii U and the precedent game was Brawl. That alone explains some of the more detrimental aspects of the attenuated hype.

I have taken the somewhat controversial perspective that the game will be released Q2 (the end) 2014. In other words, before Summer. In that event, it is logical to assume that the reveals are stagnant as he wants to keep the game a surprise, one of the reason he cited for the removal of SSE/related mode. However, most people assume the game is coming out Holiday Season 2014. In that event, we are having lethargic updates because the game is far off (as you alluded to). So it isn't really disconcerting either way.

For all intents and purposes, Smash 4 is the console seller. They should make an overt effort to promote their game more successfully. However, it isn't necessarily pertinent.

 

[Deleted member]

On another note, I keep using the term "two-pronged sword" to mean the same thing as "double-edged sword" in the metaphoric sense.

I really need to stop that.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

@TBW:
Pretty much the main things people say Lyn should be in Smash:

-She's a chick. (Because having a vagina makes you special)
-'Murica REPRESENT! ("Was the first Lord Americans had experience with", despite Eliwood being the star of the game itself and Hector being the more major between him and Lyn.)
-Katana-rama! (Even though we've got the likes of Goroh and Takamaru waiting in the wings)

She was most requested in Brawl. If not for Roy I'd say she'd have a good chance of getting in.

 

[Morbi]

You must put things into perspective, Brawl was the title proceeding Melee (probably the best selling Gamecube game with critical acclaim), Brawl was on the best selling home-console (making it universally more desirable as most had a means to purchase the game). Smash 4 is on that brick of a Wii U and the precedent game was Brawl. That alone explains some of the more detrimental aspects of the attenuated hype.

I have taken the somewhat controversial perspective that the game will be released Q2 (the end) 2014. In other words, before Summer. In that event, it is logical to assume that the reveals are stagnant as he wants to keep the game a surprise, one of the reason he cited for the removal of SSE/related mode. However, most people assume the game is coming out Holiday Season 2014. In that event, we are having lethargic updates because the game is far off (as you alluded to). So it isn't really disconcerting either way.

For all intents and purposes, Smash 4 is the console seller. They should make an overt effort to promote their game more successfully. However, it isn't necessarily pertinent.

My posts are always on the last page...
(I have nothing relevant to add)

Um... so Lyn? I really enjoy her character and I would love her to be in the game. I don't really think that she has much going for her when compared to Roy or Chrom.

 

[Knight Dude]

Christmas is a nice time to reveal some newcomers, specifically the leaky 3.

Stop calling them that. Last I checked they aren't a gang of surly broken pipes.

As for reveals, just wait for December. We might not get something on Christmas exactly, but the month will at least have something to look forward to.

 

[Morbi]

Stop calling them that. Last I checked they aren't a gang of surly broken pipes.

As for reveals, just wait for December. We might not get something on Christmas exactly, but the month will at least have something to look forward to.

The leaky 3 do not have an official name. However, I am going to assert that we will get Miis for a Christmas reveal. My evidence? What is one of the most prevalent Miis? Jesus. So it seems fairly overt that we will get a Jesus reveal on his b-day. In all seriousness, Miis wouldn't be a bad reveal for Christmas (because they are casual cat-nip).

 

[SuperBrawler]

Just checked Lyns thread.

She'd be cool. But not against Roy or Chrom. She also has to compete with Robin, Anna, Tiki, etc.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

FE talk again? I'm fine with either Tactician (preferably), Chrom, or Roy returning. Anything else would seem either late or out of place, IMO.

 

[Morbi]

Just checked Lyns thread.

She'd be cool. But not against Roy or Chrom. She also has to compete with Robin, Anna, Tiki, etc.

I don't actually agree with that sentiment. I don't think any of those characters even hold a candle to Lyn. As previously stated, she has Smash relevance, and apparently she was highly requested for Brawl. Chrom is vastly more iconic/important/popular than Robin, I mean choosing a subjective character over an objective character is possible based on Villager and perhaps the notion of PKMN Trainer's name. I am merely insinuating that Robin competes against Chrom far more than he competes with Lyn. Anna/Tiki are decent, but Lyn has already been proven to be the superior choice based on Sakurai's actions (including Lyn as opposed to Anna/Tiki). However, I can actually see that Awakening might have changed that.

I like to think that Smash relevance> Franchise relevance... as shown by Toad.

 

[SuperBrawler]

The leaky 3 do not have an official name. However, I am going to assert that we will get Miis for a Christmas reveal. My evidence? What is one of the most prevalent Miis? Jesus. So it seems fairly overt that we will get a Jesus reveal on his b-day. In all seriousness, Miis wouldn't be a bad reveal for Christmas (because they are casual cat-nip).

I'm not very fond of Mii.

But at least my Nikki thread is relevant here.

So, do you think Nikki will return in some sort of Drawing Game? Or some other Drawing app? Or maybe Miiverse?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think Roy, Lyn and Chrom are the only competitors. While I'd say Roy is the first most likely and Lyn the second, It really doesn't make sense to have Lyn and not Roy so Lyn isn't really an option the way I see it. UNLESS we somehow got 4 Fire Emblem characters in which case I think it'd be Marth, Ike, Roy, and Lyn.

 

[NickerBocker]

Okay, I made a new roster. Rate, critique, whatever.

I tried to design it a little differently, so the appearance is a little messed up.

The only cut I made was Pokemon Trainer. Resources, balancing, blah blah blah...

 

[SuperBrawler]

I think Roy, Lyn and Chrom are the only competitors. While I'd say Roy is the first most likely and Lyn the second, It really doesn't make sense to have Lyn and not Roy so Lyn isn't really an option the way I see it.UNLESS we somehow got 4 Fire Emblem characters in which case I think it'd be Marth, Ike, Roy, and Lyn.

Wow. Loving the Roy love.

I don't actually agree with that sentiment. I don't think any of those characters even hold a candle to Lyn. As previously stated, she has Smash relevance, and apparently she was highly requested for Brawl. Chrom is vastly more iconic/important/popular than Robin, I mean choosing a subjective character over an objective character is possible based on Villager and perhaps the notion of PKMN Trainer's name. I am merely insinuating that Robin competes against Chrom far more than he competes with Lyn. Anna/Tiki are decent, but Lyn has already been proven to be the superior choice based on Sakurai's actions (including Lyn as opposed to Anna/Tiki). However, I can actually see that Awakening might have changed that.

I like to think that Smash relevance> Franchise relevance... as shown by Toad.

I guess Smash relevance is a way to put it.

You are definitely right about it showing Sakurais possible liking for them. Or at least he knows about them.

 

[Morbi]

I'm not very fond of Mii.

But at least my Nikki thread is relevant here.

So, do you think Nikki will return in some sort of Drawing Game? Or some other Drawing app? Or maybe Miiverse?

Hypothetically speaking, yes. If Miis were to make an appearance, Nikki would be entirely conceivable. She could always be pitched as the default Mii, unless there is a more important one. In that event, I am fairly certain she would gain relevance and appear in other Nintendo related media.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Hypothetically speaking, yes. If Miis were to make an appearance, Nikki would be entirely conceivable. She could always be pitched as the default Mii, unless there is a more important one. In that event, I am fairly certain she would gain relevance and appear in other Nintendo related media.

A lot of other people agree too.

But for now, people consider her deconfirmed.

Anyway,

View attachment 4576

Okay, I made a new roster. Rate, critique, whatever.

I tried to design it a little differently, so the appearance is a little messed up.

The only cut I made was Pokemon Trainer. Resources, balancing, blah blah blah...

You have more LoZ characters then Pokemon.
Pokemon Trainer is very iconic.
Only one cut.

Other then that it's a pretty good roster. Not sure about Vaati though.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

FE talk again?

I hardly know anything about FE, haven't played any games in the franchise, so I'm neutral on adding a third character and who said character would be, I'm glad Marth is back, and I want Ike to return.

 

[Morbi]

View attachment 4576

Okay, I made a new roster. Rate, critique, whatever.

I tried to design it a little differently, so the appearance is a little messed up.

The only cut I made was Pokemon Trainer. Resources, balancing, blah blah blah...

There are certainly some questionable decisions, but I really like it for the logic attributed to removing Pokemon Trainer. However, if Pokemon Trainer was ever cut, I am fairly certain that Charizard would stay with a refined move-set. So Newcomer(?) Charizard in place of PKMN Trainer. It is almost fallacious to assume that Sakurai would remove such a well loved character without keeping something reminiscent of the character. Charizard also happens to be the most popular Pokemon (according to arbitrary polls).

 

[TheLastJinjo]

View attachment 4576

Okay, I made a new roster. Rate, critique, whatever.

I tried to design it a little differently, so the appearance is a little messed up.

The only cut I made was Pokemon Trainer. Resources, balancing, blah blah blah...

I like it, but here are my personal issues.

1. Vaati is the next most important character of the series (that had an important role at least) But, I honestly don't think we will get him or any other Zelda character. DEFINITELY as an Assist Trophy though.
2. I don't know about Robin, he's not a very iconic Fire Emblem character and certainly not more than Chrom. I'd go with Roy since he's the most popular and requested.
3. I don't personally think Bowser Jr fits in as the fifth Mario character and I think it'd be weird to get him when we didn't get Toad. Paper Mario is the option left that I see fittest.
4. I really don't recommend removing Pokemon Trainer. The main characters of Pokemon as well as a very unique one introduced in Brawl just really doesn't make sense ESPECIALLY when we had him in Brawl over Mewtwo. Mewtwo may have the movie, but Pokemon Trainer is more important and he and his starters are not only appearing in Pokemon X & Y, but in their own Anime. I don't think that really tops Mewtwo by a lot. And cutting any character to make room for Vaati just isn't going to happen.
5. And then my last complaint is 4 Third-Parties. Not a BAD thing, but I don't see it happening.

And you can't just cut ONE character for time constraints. That makes zero sense and surprisingly it's a common mistake. Maybe people just don't realize it. I didn't when I did.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Hey guys, due to limitations do you think PKMN trainer will be replaced by just Charizard? And do you think Nana or Popo will have to be solo?

Also, how would that work? How will they do that?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Long time no FE Talk

As much as I like Lyn, I just don't find her any priority to be in Smash 4 overall. Her time's over, unlike Roy who stays timeless due Smash Bros and being the poster lord of Elibe-games. Lyn gets some special notes for being the English (Tutorial) Lord for most FE-fans, something that granted her some special spot as the Assist and the DLC Lord for Elibe 1st Gen.

Basically I'd see Marth and Chrom, then Roy and Ike if the guys want to go step further.

But if they want to take even one more (crazy but good) step further, then they could add Lyn. Even then, I can't see that happening with much chance.

Lyn though is amazing enough as the OP and the only girl Assist. I wish we could get her as a summonable character akin to Mahvel.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Wow. Loving the Roy love.

You shouldn't immediately connect predictions with personal bias. You're smarter than that, I know it. For all you know I secretly hate Roy's guts.

Hey guys, due to limitations do you think PKMN trainer will be replaced by just Charizard? And do you think Nana or Popo will have to be solo?

Also, how would that work? How will they do that?

I think if Sakurai has to tear a character apart to fit it in that he's not going to put it in at all. Don't ruin a character if it's the only way to get them in. (Keep in mind this is coming from a person who is okay with clones and think Ganondorf's current move set fits him well.)

 

[Morbi]

Hey guys, due to limitations do you think PKMN trainer will be replaced by just Charizard? And do you think Nana or Popo will have to be solo?

Also, how would that work? How will they do that?

I just hope that they cut the Ice Climbers, it would be the most rational thing to do. They don't even work on the Wii during FFA. I would be seriously surprised if he managed to get them to work on the 3DS. I honestly don't expect PKMN Trainer to be cut. I think he is BY FAR the most logical removal, but I also have to comprehend Sakurai's intelligence and adjust accordingly. It seems like the game is not going to have very many cuts (1-3); however, in order to compensate for this, there will certainly be less newcomers.

What would be the point in making the Ice Climbers play solo? The only reason they were included was based on the notion that they were a team which inspires unique and interesting game-play elements. So he can spend valuable resources getting the obese ******* to function properly, or he can simply cut them with justification. The choice seems pretty overt. However, he will most likely try to get them to work and release them haphazardly.

Times attempted to post: 5

 

[Chandeelure]

Hey guys, due to limitations do you think PKMN trainer will be replaced by just Charizard? And do you think Nana or Popo will have to be solo?

Also, how would that work? How will they do that?

I don't know if that is likely,but I can say that personally I prefer the air I want only Charizard instead of PT and I think that solo Popo/Nana is stupid because the unique thing about them is the double mechanic,I prefer the cut of them instead of Solo Popo/Nana.

 

[NickerBocker]

I like it, but here are my personal issues.And you can't just cut ONE character for time constraints. That makes zero sense and surprisingly it's a common mistake. Maybe people just don't realize it. I didn't when I did.

Ya I figured I'd get some backlash from Pkmn Trainer, but ill ellaborate more.

Think about this from a programming standpoint. you have 3 seperate models, therefore 3 completely seperate characters with movesets to boot. After those movesets are made you have to balance them between themselves, and then the rest of the roster.

Squirtle with Ivysaur
Ivysaur with Charizard
Charizard with Squirtle
Squirtle with Ivysaur with Charizard
All 3 with rest of roster (That includes tweaking every time)

So instead of one or two steps of balance, you have 5 steps of balancing, with the 3 seperate characters. with that information, i can confidently say that Pokemon trainer will take the time of at least 4 seperate individual characters. My point is that instead of cutting a bunch of characters, like 3 or 4, and considering who is on the block (Lucario, Lucas, Ike for example. at least one of them will leave) you can cut Pokemon Trainer and get the same result. Considering Sakurai has already apologized for not including all previous playable characterrs, i think were going to be getting cuts. It's going to be hard to avoid unless the game is being developed at a fast speed. It isnt about fairness or representation, I'm quite aware that Pokemon only has 4 playable characters, but I mean, Zelda is just as if not more iconic to Nintendo than Pokemon, and Mario definitely is.

Charizard would be the best replacement, hes the only one anyone cares about TBH.

 

[Seraphim.]

Marth/Ike/Roy seems like it's meant to be but Marth/Ike/Awakening character is usually more expected.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Solo Charizard would be awesome. And I wouldn't mind the wobbling duo to be removed either. Impa replacing Sheik should also happen, **** all the haters. And **** the police to.

Marth / Ike / Roy would be too awesome. But I'm not 100% expecting it just yet. Chrom indeed seems more likely. I wouldn't be too upset with him though.

 

[Morbi]

You shouldn't immediately connect predictions with personal bias. You're smarter than that, I know it. For all you know I secretly hate Roy's guts.


I think if Sakurai has to tear a character apart to fit it in that he's not going to put it in at all. Don't ruin a character if it's the only way to get them in. (Keep in mind this is coming from a person who is okay with clones and think Ganondorf's current move set fits him well.)

Saturn, I have to admit that you were indeed correct. I am currently beginning to play Brawl in anticipation for Smash. I was still conditioned with Melee mechanics in mind, once the transition occurred, I was almost elated to find that Ganondorf was retained in his stagnant clone-status. I needed a character with decent launching ability as it was difficult to get consistent KOs. It was easy to pick him up based on the notion that very little had changed, and he felt extremely natural. You have actually converted my perspective to more properly accommodate the mentality that the sword is an unnecessary prop worthy of taunt. He fits the essence of a badass Warlock/Biker. I am actually pro-clone as of today. His move-set fits him much better than I originally entailed. Captain Falcon feels extremely distinct from Ganon anyways, the characteristics and properties of moves imply different arch-types as it is. I hardly view Ganon as a clone any more.

Just thought that I should state that you were right.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Hey guys, due to limitations do you think PKMN trainer will be replaced by just Charizard? And do you think Nana or Popo will have to be solo?

Also, how would that work? How will they do that?

If its due to limitations, probably. Or they could make Red playable on his own.
Popo and Nana, no otherwise remove them because the reason why they were added was because of the unique mechanic of having a tag-team.

 

[SuperBrawler]

I am pretty pro clone too.

Anyway, Ganondorf could have a changed moveset, but definitely not with a sword. That would be kinda weird and awkward in my opinion. He could just have the same physical magic, but fight differently then Captain Falcon.

 

[Chandeelure]

If Ganondorf changes the Warlock Punch for a energy ball...THAT WOULD BE PERFECT!

 

[Louie G.]

If Ganondorf changes the Warlock Punch for a energy ball...THAT WOULD BE PERFECT!

No becuz Lookario clon. We don wan anoter Mootoo cuz he waz a clon of Lookario becuz he had an energe bal.

 

[Morbi]

Ya I figured I'd get some backlash from Pkmn Trainer, but ill ellaborate more.

Think about this from a programming standpoint. you have 3 seperate models, therefore 3 completely seperate characters with movesets to boot. After those movesets are made you have to balance them between themselves, and then the rest of the roster.

Squirtle with Ivysaur
Ivysaur with Charizard
Charizard with Squirtle
Squirtle with Ivysaur with Charizard
All 3 with rest of roster (That includes tweaking every time)

So instead of one or two steps of balance, you have 5 steps of balancing, with the 3 seperate characters. with that information, i can confidently say that Pokemon trainer will take the time of at least 4 seperate individual characters. My point is that instead of cutting a bunch of characters, like 3 or 4, and considering who is on the block (Lucario, Lucas, Ike for example. at least one of them will leave) you can cut Pokemon Trainer and get the same result. Considering Sakurai has already apologized for not including all previous playable characterrs, i think were going to be getting cuts. It's going to be hard to avoid unless the game is being developed at a fast speed. It isnt about fairness or representation, I'm quite aware that Pokemon only has 4 playable characters, but I mean, Zelda is just as if not more iconic to Nintendo than Pokemon, and Mario definitely is.

Charizard would be the best replacement, hes the only one anyone cares about TBH.

As an advocate of removing Pokemon Trainer, I have to correct the notion that he is THAT easy to balance.

First, you have 4 models as opposed to 3. Each of these models need everything that each character needs. This includes voice-work. Not to mention his role in subspace which actually entailed that the design of the character couldn't be half-assed. Not to mention, making a character cohesive out of 3 candidates is difficult enough, though this only effects the planning stage, not the development.

Squirtle-Ivysaur
Ivysaur-Charizard
Squirtle-Charizard
Pokemon Trainer
Squirtle against 36 characters
Ivysaur against 36 characters
Charizard against 36 characters
Pokemon Trainer against 36 characters

You also forgot to mention the development of game mechanics surrounding the character. The fatigue/switch upon death mechanics specific to him. His model needed proper placement in EVERY map too. A lot of people mention that Charizard's model is difficult to incorporate. I believe them based on the notion that Charizard's hit-box was poorly implemented.

Edit- I forgot to mention the premise that he is only a Brawl veteran.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

No becuz Lookario clon. We don wan anoter Mootoo cuz he waz a clon of Lookario becuz he had an energe bal.

Dats why he replasd mootoo

So instead of one or two steps of balance, you have 5 steps of balancing, with the 3 seperate characters. with that information, i can confidently say that Pokemon trainer will take the time of at least 4 seperate individual characters. My point is that instead of cutting a bunch of characters, like 3 or 4, and considering who is on the block (Lucario, Lucas, Ike for example. at least one of them will leave) you can cut Pokemon Trainer and get the same result.

I'm just gonna go ahead and say you shouldn't cut a character or characters for the sole reason of how long they take to develop. If Bowser took the time of 4 character I wouldn't remove him.

Saturn, I have to admit that you were indeed correct. I am currently beginning to play Brawl in anticipation for Smash. I was still conditioned with Melee mechanics in mind, once the transition occurred, I was almost elated to find that Ganondorf was retained in his stagnant clone-status. I needed a character with decent launching ability as it was difficult to get consistent KOs. It was easy to pick him up based on the notion that very little had changed, and he felt extremely natural. You have actually converted my perspective to more properly accommodate the mentality that the sword is an unnecessary prop worthy of taunt. He fits the essence of a badass Warlock/Biker. I am actually pro-clone as of today. His move-set fits him much better than I originally entailed. Captain Falcon feels extremely distinct from Ganon anyways, the characteristics and properties of moves imply different arch-types as it is. I hardly view Ganon as a clone any more.

Just thought that I should state that you were right.

Thanks. Glad I'm not just crazy

 

[Chandeelure]

No becuz Lookario clon. We don wan anoter Mootoo cuz he waz a clon of Lookario becuz he had an energe bal.

Dun't furjet Zamoos!

 

[Louie G.]

I think Roy, Lyn and Chrom are the only competitors. While I'd say Roy is the first most likely and Lyn the second, It really doesn't make sense to have Lyn and not Roy so Lyn isn't really an option the way I see it. UNLESS we somehow got 4 Fire Emblem characters in which case I think it'd be Marth, Ike, Roy, and Lyn.

Wait, Lyn over CHROM?

No way dude. I cannot stress this enough, and I won't get it through to you, but Fire Emblem and Pokémon characters actually have increased chances because they are recent.