Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[ChronoBound]

I wouldn't mind seeing Fire Emblem stick with two characters. You'd think the people that are so adamant that the roster should "rep" how well each series sells would feel the same, but no, they're usually the first to say that Fire Emblem deserves three characters, same as Donkey Kong, despite the former having earned about one-ninth the sales of the latter.

Be careful what you wish for. We could very well end up with a Chrom that operates pretty much as an Ike replacement, and have Marth and Chrom as the sole FE characters. I think overall that is the worst case scenario, although I am not personally expecting it.

Personally, I don't see why we can't have Marth, Roy, Ike, and the My Unit to satisfy all camps, especially considering even if Roy is a luigi-fied clone, he won't take as much time and effort (with even the Project M team recently saying they take much less time than an unique character).

And for those who complain about Roy being a "luigi-fied clone", I am sure the release of 3.0 (which is less than two weeks away) will convince you all that Roy would still bring a lot to the table even as a clone.

 

[majora_787]

I figured I'd post this to see what people think of what I see happening with Smash Bros.

Note that Rosalina is just a filler character and could easily be substituted for just about anyone who I cut and I'd feel the same.

 

[Pacack]

Be careful what you wish for. We could very well end up with a Chrom that operates pretty much as an Ike replacement, and have Marth and Chrom as the sole FE characters. I think overall that is the worst case scenario, although I am not personally expecting it.

Personally, I don't see why we can't have Marth, Roy, Ike, and the My Unit to satisfy all camps, especially considering even if Roy is a luigi-fied clone, he won't take as much time and effort (with even the Project M team recently saying they take much less time than an unique character).

And for those who complain about Roy being a "luigi-fied clone", I am sure the release of 3.0 (which is less than two weeks away) will convince you all that Roy would still bring a lot to the table even as a clone.

Four Fire Emblem characters really shouldn't happen when roster space is terribly limited, in my opinion. (Neither should have six Pokemon characters in Brawl, though.)

 

[Knight Dude]

If you're going to remove a Star Fox character, you may as well remove the one that's actually a clone.

EDIT: No, nothing spoiled. I'm playing FE8 for the experience. I know a bit of how it goes from beginning to end.

I don't know, if, and only if any Star Fox characters are getting axed, I feel Wolf is the more likely cut. I do prefer Wolf though. But Falco does have seniority on his side. Granted, I don't see either of them truly getting cut.

Well Harry is a hunch and Wolf for Falco is a option too, but then the arguments will have not end like why did you cut Falco instead cut Lucas, no Lucas no go for Ike, hell no Lucas is staying axe... and you know the rest of the story.
.n_n.

Well, choosing to axe Lucario and is a better choice than cutting Lucas in my eyes. I don't really see Lucas stepping on any other characters toes so to speak. I don't exactly want Lucario to get cut. But he can be traded out for another popular pokemon if it is needed. Though I suppose like the Kanto starters and a few others, Lucario still has relevance in the Pokemon series.

 

[BKupa666]

Be careful what you wish for. We could very well end up with a Chrom that operates pretty much as an Ike replacement, and have Marth and Chrom as the sole FE characters. I think overall that is the worst case scenario, although I am not personally expecting it.

That would be terrible just based on principle alone. I was mainly getting at the idea of there being no Fire Emblem newcomer at all, since the series' most viable candidates by far are blatant cash-ins on Marth and Ike in the wake of Brawl's success.

 

[majora_787]

The issue is, if Falco was added in Melee over Wolf, and when they added Falco during development and Wolf as a last minute addition, why did they put effort into Wolf and make him different by a much larger margin than Falco?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

And for those who complain about Roy being a "luigi-fied clone", I am sure the release of 3.0 (which is less than two weeks away) will convince you all that Roy would still bring a lot to the table even as a clone.

You should clarify that you mean Project M 3.0.

 

[Pacack]

The issue is, if Falco was added in Melee over Wolf, and when they added Falco during development and Wolf as a last minute addition, why did they put effort into Wolf and make him different by a much larger margin than Falco?

Because they didn't want to have three characters that play exactly the same (especially not from the same series). There's no real reason besides that.

 

[Zhadgon]

Spoiler

I totally just spoiled that for you, didn't I?

I will only point out what I do not like about it.

I do not get what's up with the organization. At all. Please fix, k thnx.

I personally think a Mario newcomer is like 95% going to happen because: the entire previous Mario cast has already been shown; there were five Mario characters in Melee, and it is fully capable of having them now; and the most recognizable potential newcomers are from the Marioverse (Toad and Waluigi are both majorly recognizable).

I, personally, would add Dixie Kong, and I feel like it is perfectly likely that we're getting two Donkey Kong characters, but I may be very, very wrong about that.

I do think it's likely we're getting Palutena, but I also acknowledge the fact that she is not even close to a lock.

Am I dumb, or are the Ice Climbers not there?

Okay, where's Lucario? Why did you cut him? Bad Zhadgon. No.

Muh...my Falco ;_;...Where'd he go? If he was in Melee over Wolf, who was at least acknowledged in the intro, then why would they cut him over Wolf now? I get that they put more work into Wolf, but they can just give Falco the better parts of Wolf's moveset (like his down-b) and differentiate him more. (If there must be cuts, though, one from Starfox is likely.)

Huh. No Fire Emblem newcomer? Odd, but it's definitely a possibility.

Andy really has next to no chance. He's cool and all, but I really, really don't see him being added since there's literally no reference to his existence in SSB (and his series only gets a retro-styled assist trophy in Brawl), and that really hurts his chances. Shulk or Isaac is more likely, I'd say.

I do think you need another historical character ala Mr. Game and Watch or R.O.B., since that is something of a pattern that's shown up, and it's likely to show up again (if the Retros are a pattern, so is this).

Overall, though, there are more good points than bad points. Needs a lot of organization, though...PM me, actually, if you need help with that. I'm great at organizing rosters.

Organization, if you get a closer look to it is very organized all the main heroes of the big series start in the middle and from there all the subsequent characters from that series are going to the right or to the left, the stand alone series are in the border, pretty much is how is organized my roster.

Toad is pretty dead and until something mayor happen it will stay in his coffin as a B Down of Peach, Waluigi will be forever an Asssist Trophy nothing more, nothing less, the only two Mario New comers that have a chance will be Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario and both have the competition from other series and characters like Ridley, Little Mac, Miis, King K. Rool, etc.

I can see two DK characters added and be 4 characters for the series but then it will mean one spot less for a new series or a character to be added to a current series that needs more love and is requested more like Ridley, Palutena, Mewtwo, etc.

The Ice Climbers are in the left side of Captain Falcon.

Lucario must need to die (joking aside I cut Lucario to add other characters to the roster).

My choice is Falco, if Starfox ends like Metroid with only two characters, I think it will be the Hero/Heroine and the Villain.

Intelligent systems could propose to Sakurai instead of another Fire Emblem character he could use an Advance Wars character instead.

Andy is probable he did appear in Brawl as a Sticker with Sam and Max (link) and the retro styled assist trophy you should know that is the art used by the current games to represent the units so is not old at all. Finally I think Advance Wars has more chances than a Golden Sun character they have more games and the series is older (by now is kinda underrated for unknown reasons).

My historical character is Harry representing the Virtual Boy era.

And thanks but I´m fine with my current roster.
.n_n.

 

[Starbound]

"In all previous Smash Bros. games, I've entered in all the data for fighter skills and hitboxes by myself, and it's quite nearly that way with this game too. I've thought about leaving this work to others and I've actually tried it once or twice, but it hasn't worked out."

Source: http://www.polygon.com/2013/11/20/5127488/a-day-in-the-extremely-busy-life-of-masahiro-sakurai

I know that a lot of people were expecting Bamco to be doing a lot of work on programming fighters, and a lot of people were using it as reason to support a massive roster. However, it doesn't seem like that's true. I have no qualms with his reasoning for choosing to do so, and I expected that kind of attitude from Sakurai on the issue. But nonetheless, with Sakurai directly making all of the characters on his own again, do you think his affects roster size?

 

[ChronoBound]

Four Fire Emblem characters really shouldn't happen when roster space is terribly limited, in my opinion. (Neither should have six Pokemon characters in Brawl, though.)

We have no idea how many characters Smash 4 will have. Toon Link's confirmation suggests that maybe the other low priority veterans (Lucario, Ike, Lucas, Roy, one of Falco/Wolf) may not be axed.

Melee was a 14 character increase over 64, and Brawl was a 13 character increase over Melee. What made Brawl more profound is that unlike Melee, nearly all of its 18 newcomer additions were non-clones, and two of its three clone additions were basically only a handful of moves away from being completely unique characters.

So what's not to say we get at least 12 newcomer additions, no cuts, and the return of Mewtwo and Roy?

At this point we are only a year away from the release of Smash 4, yet we still know very little about the game (particularly how Sakurai plans to distinguish the experience people have on the 3DS version versus the Wii U version), and how Sakurai plans to make both games compelling purchases despite having the same roster.

 

[Deleted member]

there's literally no reference to his existence in SSB

Sticker.


But anyways, I'm still on the grounds that the best way to represent the Wars franchise is through the ones actually doing the fighting.
The Soldiers. The Grunts. The Infantry. Whatever you want to call them.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[majora_787]

Because they didn't want to have three characters that play exactly the same (especially not from the same series). There's no real reason besides that.

And so they opted for two that are largely the same and one that is largely unique from the others?

And somehow going through the work of removing the unique character and making the clonier character unique makes more sense than scrapping the clonier character and keeping the thing that adds more to the roster?

 

[Zhadgon]

Sticker.


But anyways, I'm still on the grounds that the best way to represent the Wars franchise is through the ones actually doing the fighting.
The Soldiers. The Grunts. The Infantry. Whatever you want to call them.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Well in the support thread for Andy or maybe it was Sam, is a highly detailed moveset for an Advance Wars character that could work and represent the series just fine with a close gameplay as to what are the games.
.n_n.

 

[ChronoBound]

So is anyone expecting another character confirmation in a few hours? Today is the release of Super Mario 3D World in Japan, and also the Japanese anniversary for the release of F-Zero, Donkey Kong Country 2, and Punch-Out.

I think we will either get Captain Falcon or some sort of (non-character confirmation) update that reminds people Super Mario 3D World is out.

 

[Knight Dude]

The issue is, if Falco was added in Melee over Wolf, and when they added Falco during development and Wolf as a last minute addition, why did they put effort into Wolf and make him different by a much larger margin than Falco?

I imagine that Falco had a familiar playstyle to some. So the devs chose not to change it too much so that Melee players aren't completely alienated. Despite this, Falco still was given changes to his fighting style. Wolf, while still sharing some similarities with his two counterparts, didn't have a need to keep a semblance of consistency when it came to how he fights, as he was a new fighter in Brawl. So they had more freedom with what he can do.

Another character that was changed, but not too drastically in Brawl is Ganondorf. One of the reasons I remember hearing, is that they didn't want to alienate those who played him in Melee.

I think that most of these clones and semi-clones are going to be made more different this time around again. But I don't expect any of them to have a completely unique moveset.

 

[Deleted member]

If it ain't the soldiers, it ain't worth it.
If you have to tie them to a CO who sits on his ass like the Pokémon Trainer, so be it. But it's the units that do the work.

 

[Zhadgon]

So is anyone expecting another character confirmation in a few hours? Today is the release of Super Mario 3D World in Japan, and also the Japanese anniversary for the release of F-Zero, Donkey Kong Country 2, and Punch-Out.

I think we will either get Captain Falcon or some sort of (non-character confirmation) update that reminds people Super Mario 3D World is out.

Zelda but knowing Sakurai it will be Wario or no one at all.
.n_n.

 

[Deleted member]

.....That'd be on Friday, not tomorrow, Zhadgon.

 

[Zhadgon]

If it ain't the soldiers, it ain't worth it.
If you have to tie them to a CO who sits on his *** like the Pokémon Trainer, so be it. But it's the units that do the work.

Mmm... is highly unlikely that some of those units will only be playable and let be honest this time the CO's could work to win the fight in a direct way without relaying in their poor soldiers that make all the hard work .
.n_n.

 

[BKupa666]

We know tomorrow is a big day, bigger than perhaps any before it, including the Pokemon X/Y release date, so Sakurai could clearly choose to update with a character tonight! That being said, Sakurai knows we know tomorrow is a big day, bigger than perhaps any before it, including the Pokemon X/Y release date, so, being the troll he is, he could clearly not choose to update with a character tonight as well! However, Sakurai also knows we know that he knowingly trolled us on the Pokemon X/Y release date and thus might not be expecting anything tonight, so he could just as clearly choose to update with a character tonight!

 

[Zhadgon]

We know tomorrow is a big day, bigger than perhaps any before it, including the Pokemon X/Y release date, so Sakurai could clearly choose to update with a character tonight! That being said, Sakurai knows we know tomorrow is a big day, bigger than perhaps any before it, including the Pokemon X/Y release date, so he could clearly not choose to update with a character tonight as well! However, Sakurai also knows we know that he knowingly trolled us on the Pokemon X/Y release date and thus might not be expecting anything tonight, so he could just as clearly choose to update with a character tonight!

Reverse of the reverse of the reverse psychology... suuure... only thinking about it my head hurts.
.n_n.

 

[Deleted member]

Doesn't matter if a CO can be given a moveset that reflects the soldiers.
That'd be like having Pokémon Trainer, but he's fighting using his Pokémon's moves.


Since it's the soldiers that do all the work, they should be the ones who fight the Smash War.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So is anyone expecting another character confirmation in a few hours? Today is the release of Super Mario 3D World in Japan, and also the Japanese anniversary for the release of F-Zero, Donkey Kong Country 2, and Punch-Out.

I think we will either get Captain Falcon or some sort of (non-character confirmation) update that reminds people Super Mario 3D World is out.

I'm not holding my breath. I think it's far more likely we get Zelda for Friday.

 

[Pacack]

Spoiler

Organization, if you get a closer look to it is very organized all the main heroes of the big series start in the middle and from there all the subsequent characters from that series are going to the right or to the left, the stand alone series are in the border, pretty much is how is organized my roster.

Toad is pretty dead and until something mayor happen it will stay in his coffin as a B Down of Peach, Waluigi will be forever an Asssist Trophy nothing more, nothing less, the only two Mario New comers that have a chance will be Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario and both have the competition from other series and characters like Ridley, Little Mac, Miis, King K. Rool, etc.

I can see two DK characters added and be 4 characters for the series but then it will mean one spot less for a new series or a character to be added to a current series that needs more love and is requested more like Ridley, Palutena, Mewtwo, etc.

The Ice Climbers are in the left side of Captain Falcon.

Lucario must need to die (joking aside I cut Lucario to add other characters to the roster).

My choice is Falco, if Starfox ends like Metroid with only two characters, I think it will be the Hero/Heroine and the Villain.

Intelligent systems could propose to Sakurai instead of another Fire Emblem character he could use an Advance Wars character instead.

Andy is probable he did appear in Brawl as a Sticker with Sam and Max (link) and the retro styled assist trophy you should know that is the art used by the current games to represent the units so is not old at all. Finally I think Advance Wars has more chances than a Golden Sun character they have more games and the series is older (by now is kinda underrated for unknown reasons).

My historical character is Harry representing the Virtual Boy era.

And thanks but I´m fine with my current roster.
.n_n.

(Edited before because I noticed that you had Harry)

The organization makes more sense now, even if it does look a little unnatural to me.

When it comes to Toad, how is he really deconfirmed at all? Toads are a species. Peach having one means literally nothing. If you don't believe that that's the case, then there's still the blue Toad, who is the only one remaining of the fourth playable characters of SMB2 and SM3DW and who is very obviously different from the toad that Peach uses. I do agree with Waluigi, I think he's actually incredibly unlikely, but he's still incredibly recognizable, which is what I was trying to get at. Bowser Jr. works just as well for my point. And, although Ridley and K. Rool may both be more prioritized than a new Mario newcomer, I would argue that one of them is just as important as the inclusion of Miis. This is debatable, sure, but it is my viewpoint on the subject.

A very understandable viewpoint on the DK series, and I could certainly see that happening. It was a minor nitpick on my part.

I am indeed simply blind.

This is a reasonable viewpoint, I just happen to disagree with it.

Although IS could do it, there's no reason to believe that they will. They were in a bad enough spot to considering cancelling their much larger franchise, Fire Emblem, before Awakening's success, so I would not be surprised at all if they actually did cancel the Wars series. This is definitely all conjecture, but I think it's reasonable to say that they did after their last Wars game sold just under .6 million units.

I did not know about the sticker, though. Thank you for that. I do still stand by my previous points, though.

I'm betting that you responded about Harry, so I'll edit it in if you do.

 

[Knight Dude]

Doesn't matter if a CO can be given a moveset that reflects the soldiers.
That'd be like having Pokémon Trainer, but he's fighting using his Pokémon's moves.


Since it's the soldiers that do all the work, they should be the ones who fight the Smash War.

Move-set wise, I can see flying a helicopter as a recovery attack. And the blades of the copter will damage anyone who makes contact, maybe the tail rotor can do damage too. The soldiers can have a crawl like some other other characters. Give them a rocket launcher as a projectile as well.

If the soldiers actually end up being playable, I'd want the design that cover their faces with mask. They look the coolest to me.

As for reveals go, I guess Zelda is possible, to go with the release date for a Link Between Worlds. I can see her keeping the Twilight Princess design but given more color like Link has.

 

[Inawordyes]

We know tomorrow is a big day, bigger than perhaps any before it, including the Pokemon X/Y release date, so Sakurai could clearly choose to update with a character tonight! That being said, Sakurai knows we know tomorrow is a big day, bigger than perhaps any before it, including the Pokemon X/Y release date, so, being the troll he is, he could clearly not choose to update with a character tonight as well! However, Sakurai also knows we know that he knowingly trolled us on the Pokemon X/Y release date and thus might not be expecting anything tonight, so he could just as clearly choose to update with a character tonight!

I play Mafia, so this makes perfect sense to me. WIFOM powers ACTIVATE!

 

[Zhadgon]

Spoiler

(Edited before because I noticed that you had Harry)

The organization makes more sense now, even if it does look a little unnatural to me.

When it comes to Toad, how is he really deconfirmed at all? Toads are a species. Peach having one means literally nothing. If you don't believe that that's the case, then there's still the blue Toad, who is the only one remaining of the fourth playable characters of SMB2 and SM3DW and who is very obviously different from the toad that Peach uses. I do agree with Waluigi, I think he's actually incredibly unlikely, but he's still incredibly recognizable, which is what I was trying to get at. Bowser Jr. works just as well for my point. And, although Ridley and K. Rool may both be more prioritized than a new Mario newcomer, I would argue that one of them is just as important as the inclusion of Miis. This is debatable, sure, but it is my viewpoint on the subject.

A very understandable viewpoint on the DK series, and I could certainly see that happening. It was a minor nitpick on my part.

I am indeed simply blind.

This is a reasonable viewpoint, I just happen to disagree with it.

Although IS could do it, there's no reason to believe that they will. They were in a bad enough spot to considering cancelling their much larger franchise, Fire Emblem, before Awakening's success, so I would not be surprised at all if they actually did cancel the Wars series. This is definitely all conjecture, but I think it's reasonable to say that they did after their last Wars game sold just under .6 million units.

I did not know about the sticker, though. Thank you for that. I do still stand by my previous points, though.

I'm betting that you responded about Harry, so I'll edit it in if you do.

Yeah sorry for putting the spoiler tag but I don´t want to stretch to much the page.

Organization is my personal touch (and it seems that now you understand how it works, should not be a problem so we are both ok with this, next point).

I know the Toad discussion and I have read the threads and pretty much both arguments I´m in the one that pretty much Toad is in coffin right now until proven otherwise and I respect your point of view but I will stick to my idea that the big three of Nintendo will not change to much in this new Smash.

No problem I´m always happy to hear new ideas, but yeah there are still many characters competing and DK series to have more characters is no probable right now it will end like Kirby series.

No problem sometimes we are exhausted and don´t see to well.

Thats why we are here to see different ideas and learn more.

I don´t think they will cancel the Advance Wars series they did fantastic in their first three games, the black sheep of the family was the last one (even I didn't like it to much, they change all the CO's the world and pretty much make it darker to appeal a more mature audience when in reality the series is pretty much for a mature audience for the complexity of the gameplay and the type of game that is).

I think there are a lot of competition and the assist trophies could tell us something about the next characters added to Smash.

Yeah I did say about Harry that he would be my Historical Character representing the Virtual Boy era and the System.
.n_n.

 

[Gune]

Hey guys what do you think about this roster?

.n_n.

Needs Lucario Harry can suck a egg.

I figured I'd post this to see what people think of what I see happening with Smash Bros.

Note that Rosalina is just a filler character and could easily be substituted for just about anyone who I cut and I'd feel the same.

Needs Lucario AND Ike.
Hateing the unjustifiable Lucario cuts, but I do like your Junko Enoshima avatar.

 

[Zhadgon]

Needs Harry, Lucario can suck a egg.
Needs Lucario AND Ike.
Hateing the unjustifiable Lucario cuts, but I do like your Junko Enoshima avatar.

Fixed.
.n_n.

 

[Glaciacott]

The new picture of the day is up on miiverse. A group shot of Mario, Luigi, Peach and Toad (peach's moveset Toad) to commemorate the release of Super Mario 3D World.

The chances of Toad being playable seem more and more distant now.

 

[BKupa666]

The new picture of the day is up on miiverse. A group shot of Mario, Luigi, Peach and Toad (peach's moveset Toad) to commemorate the release of Super Mario 3D World.

The chances of Toad being playable seem more and more distant now.

More like, the chances of people accepting that the chances of Toad being playable were already distant after Peach's reveal seem higher now.

 

[MexM]

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Darn these "subtle deconfirmations"

Reminds me of the pre-Brawl palette swap pics on the Dojo and one of the captions reading:
"th-those goggles...I've seen them somewhere before."

Sigh. I'm honestly starting to lose faith in Toad now. I still hope he throws a trolly curveball and reveals a Toad as a newcomer, though...

But I do love how he says "these four...people(?)" on this pic's caption, like he knows that Toad isn't really a human.

-----

 

[ChronoBound]

I posted this in the Toad thread.

I don't know what Sakurai is thinking. Toad is probably the most well-known and iconic character from a veteran Nintendo franchises not even playable.

Looking at the three characters confirmed so far (all new series to Smash Bros.), as well as the three rumored newcomers (Little Mac, Mii, Pac-Man), it might be possible Sakurai thought he added in nearly all the worthwhile characters for Nintendo's veteran franchises with Brawl.

That things look cloudy even for Ridley of all characters, does not look good in general for most veteran series newcomers.

If Sakurai comes out next month (the anniversary of Kid Icarus in Japan), with a picture showing Palutena is still part of Pit's Final Smash, I think that is going to be a very ugly sign in general for possible veteran series newcomers. If that happens we could very easily see a scenario with no Mario newcomer, no DK newcomer, and no Ridley.

 

[Deleted member]

Not just Toad, but Rosalina too.

...Sakurai celebrated the release of the game. No Rosalina reveal. Granted, the game comes out in America tomorrow (22nd), but Sakurai already celebrated it.
No more "inevitable Rosalina".


EDIT: Koopa is more well-known and iconic than Toad.

 

[Gune]

Fixed.
.n_n.

Don't get slapped Zhad.

 

[ChronoBound]

Not just Toad, but Rosalina too.

...Sakurai celebrated the release of the game. No Rosalina reveal. Granted, the game comes out in America tomorrow (22nd), but Sakurai already celebrated it.
No more "inevitable Rosalina".

I can't believe people call Rosalina "inevitable" due to a single playable appearance. That kind of thinking reeks of the mentality that was prevalent during pre-Brawl (various female newcomer fanbases used flimsy reasoning about why a character was likely). As it stands, I do see Rosalina as the next most likely Mario newcomer now after only Paper Mario and Bowser Jr., however, to say she is "inevitable" is fanboyism pure and simple.

The only character I would even give that term to (aside from the rumored trio) is Mewtwo, and he is not even a true newcomer.

 

[Starbound]

On the other hand, this looks to be good news for Bowser Jr., Paper Mario and Waluigi.

 

[ChronoBound]

On the other hand, this looks to be good news for Bowser Jr., Paper Mario and Waluigi.

Nope.

I would say he is less likely than Rosalina.

Rosalina even outprioritizes Waluigi in the biggest Mario spinoff series now (Mario Kart).