Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[FlareHabanero]

Why did you even bother to say anything in the first place?

Because I'm going to keep saying it until people get the hint.

 

[TheTuninator]

Because I'm going to keep saying it until people get the hint.

Don't you find it a bit silly to assume that any new FE rep will be a "last-minute clone" when Ike clearly wasn't?

 

[LoneKonWolf]

hey mates what is go-
(sees fire emblem discussion)
. . .
. . .
. . .

 

[FlareHabanero]

Don't you find it a bit silly to assume that any new FE rep will be a "last-minute clone" when Ike clearly wasn't?

The difference here is that Ike had something going for him.

An emphasis on power in exchange of speed courtesy of his signature weapon, the Ragnell, plus a more rough style due to his mercenary heritage. Basically the perfect contrast from Marth.

 

[Chandeelure]

Yay! Fire Emblem Discussion!

 

[BKupa666]

New topic time!

One factor I incorporate into my analysis is whether a potential newcomer fits into an archetype that is visibly recurring between Smash games. My big examples are 'heavyweight,' 'retro character,' and 'sword user,' along with maybe 'clone/semi-clone.' I think those examples are deeper than just claiming 'we've always gotten a Star Fox newcomer, two Pokemon characters and a bulbous-nosed plumber' (Golden's example); they're consciously-made categories that Sakurai has brought up at least once each, and he knows, more likely than not, that different parts of the fanbase specifically enjoy in newcomers.

How much validity exists in this line of thinking, if any? Are there any recurring archetypes I'm missing that you think are similarly important to consider?

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

How much validity exists in this line of thinking, if any? Are there any recurring archetypes I'm missing that you think are similarly important to consider?

Well you did miss the fema.. *shot*

 

[TheTuninator]

I would include "surprise pick" as a category. WFT appears to be this generation's surprise pick like G&W and R.O.B., but unlike them she doesn't fall under the retro umbrella.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Chrom's likely to be more unique than Roy. A returning Roy would likely largely emulate his Melee clone moveset for the benefit of Melee Roy fans, while Chrom could be more of a Wolf to Marth's Fox as Chrom has no need to adhere to a pre-existing moveset.

What do you have to prove that Chrom would be a Wolf-like clone and not Roy? Roy being a clone in Melee doesn't mean anything. Look at Falco in Brawl. Could you please explain why you say this?

Don't you find it a bit silly to assume that any new FE rep will be a "last-minute clone" when Ike clearly wasn't?

Fire Emblem characters will be clones because they are new!?!? Dafug?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

New topic time!

One factor I incorporate into my analysis is whether a potential newcomer fits into an archetype that is visibly recurring between Smash games. My big examples are 'heavyweight,' 'retro character,' and 'sword user,' along with maybe 'clone/semi-clone.' I think those examples are deeper than just claiming 'we've always gotten a Star Fox newcomer, two Pokemon characters and a bulbous-nosed plumber' (Golden's example); they're consciously-made categories that Sakurai has brought up at least once each, and he knows, more likely than not, that different parts of the fanbase specifically enjoy in newcomers.

How much validity exists in this line of thinking, if any? Are there any recurring archetypes I'm missing that you think are similarly important to consider?

Eh, ugh, sialwmbejskabejsoanweh!&82$/7/@.!
YOU ARE HIRTING MY BWAIN!!!!!!!
TO COMPWECATED DISKWUSSION!!!!!
NEW TOPIC!!!!!!

But seriously.
A potential newcomer does not need to fit into a pre existing category to be a viable character.
It can make its own category entirely!

On an unrelated note:
Also, what does everyone think if the idea of a Boy and His Blob as a playable character?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think thinking from that prospective of those archetypes seems kind of bluntly obvious.

Don't know, that's like saying we'll get a "hands rep" or "hair rep".

 

[TheTuninator]

What do you have to prove that Chrom would be a Wolf-like clone and not Roy? Roy being a clone in Melee doesn't mean anything. Look at Falco in Brawl. Could you please explain why you say this?

Roy has an existing clone moveset which will influence him, while Chrom doesn't. That simple, really.

Fire Emblem characters will be clones because they are new!?!? Dafug?

That's not what I said.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What would your reaction be if our 5th Pokemon character WASN'T Mewtwo. If it was Genesect I'd be happy as ****.

 

[TheTuninator]

What would your reaction be if our 5th Pokemon character WASN'T Mewtwo. If it was Genesect I'd be happy as ****.

I'd love it if we held steady at four Pokereps, not counting PT's extra Pokemon. Pokemon already enjoys excellent representation.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

What would your reaction be if our 5th Pokemon character WASN'T Mewtwo. If it was Genesect I'd be happy as ****.

couldn't care less,
as long as Pokémon trainer makes it in (and on a smaller note Jigglypuff) I'll be happy

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Roy has an existing clone moveset which will influence him, while Chrom doesn't. That simple, really.

That may be one of the dumbest things I've heard today.

You are implying that because someone was a clone in the cloniest game ever, that they would still be a clone in later installments that usually declone characters the best they can and that someone who is absolute clone material (more than Roy I might add) wouldn't because he hasn't been before!?

 

[?????????????]

What would your reaction be if our 5th Pokemon character WASN'T Mewtwo. If it was Genesect I'd be happy as ****.

Well...Mewtwo is my favorite Pokemon, so I'd have a genuinely sad reaction.

 

[TheTuninator]

That may be one of the dumbest things I've heard today.

So you're denying that Sakurai keeps the existing moveset of any returning veteran in mind when designing them for a new Smash game?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

What would your reaction be if our 5th Pokemon character WASN'T Mewtwo. If it was Genesect I'd be happy as ****.

I'd always prefer Darkrai or Deoxys or Plusle and Minun in that order.
But if we do I'd say Mewoth or Zoruark would be the most likely.

Also, what does everyone think of the idea of Boy and his Blob as a character?
Using the 2009 Wii design of course.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I don't really care about Pokemon newcomers. I just want my 1st gen Pokemon Trainer (RED, possibly with a Leaf alt costume+voiceover) and I'm game, as far as Pokemon goes.... Unless Team Rocket's also introduced. :D

I would flip out even further if P.T. gets all 1st gen starters in their 1st evolutionary stage, and they evolve as the battle progresses (they become heavier/stronger, and their final stage provides them one additional gimmick, like Charizard's multi jump for example).
OR if Snorlax becomes his Final Smash. :3

Also, what does everyone think of the idea of Boy and his Blob as a character?
Using the 2009 Wii design of course.

I would be intrigued, actually. Which reminds me, I still haven't played that game. I feel like I missed out on something really unique.

 

[Chandeelure]

What would your reaction be if our 5th Pokemon character WASN'T Mewtwo. If it was Genesect I'd be happy as ****.

I don't care about Mewtwo,but Genesect over Mewtwo is a sin IMO.

 

[TheTuninator]

That may be one of the dumbest things I've heard today.

You are implying that because someone was a clone in the cloniest game ever, that they would still be a clone in later installments that usually declone characters the best they can and that someone who is absolute clone material (more than Roy I might add) wouldn't because he hasn't been before!?

Here, allow me to requote a part of my post that you seem to have ignored entirely.

Sakurai could just as easily decide to completely declone Roy, though, so it's a bit of a moot point.

 

[?????????????]

How much validity exists in this line of thinking, if any?

Eh, I don't think there's much validity in it. If the archetype directly correlates with the game, then maybe, but I don't have an immediate example of that.

How the character looks, what their gender is, and how they fight is, I think, almost completely irrelevant in the face of the character themself; a good character will get in regardless of those factors, and a not-so-good character won't get in just because they fit a supposed archetype.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So you're denying that Sakurai keeps the existing moveset of any returning veteran in mind when designing them for a new Smash game?

Yes I am as a matter of fact.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I would be intrigued, actually. Which reminds me, I still haven't played that game. I feel like I missed out on something really unique.

You are missing out on a really cool experience!
Anyways, I made a thread for them,
http://smashboards.com/threads/by-t...boy-and-his-blob-for-super-smash-bros.342546/
THIS IS NOT ADVERTISING!!!!!!
SO NOBODY START UP THAT GARBAGE!!!!!

 

[BKupa666]

I think thinking from that prospective of those archetypes seems kind of bluntly obvious.

Don't know, that's like saying we'll get a "hands rep" or "hair rep".

It is to me, but it doesn't seem to be to others who have prediction rosters with no new heavyweight or retro character at all (these people almost always have Chrom, though). In terms of what pizzadudemanguy said, for some characters, these archetypes are part of their essence, and may find their ways in for that reason alone. However, in evaluating each successive crop of newcomers, the fact that these archetypes keep recurring in small quantities is enough to make me wonder whether this extends beyond the characters themselves and factors into Sakurai's discussion of 'balance' in a roster and its characters' playstyles.

 

[TheTuninator]

It is to me, but it doesn't seem to be to others who have prediction rosters with no new heavyweight or retro character at all (these people almost always have Chrom, though). In terms of what pizzadudemanguy said, for some characters, these archetypes are part of the essence of some characters, and may find their ways in for that reason alone. However, in evaluating each successive crop of newcomers, the fact that these archetypes keep recurring in small quantities is enough to make me wonder whether this extends beyond the characters themselves and factors into Sakurai's discussion of 'balance' in a roster and its characters' playstyles.

Equally, however, we must ask ourselves whether Melee and Brawl each got at least one heavyweight because Sakurai wanted heavyweights, or because very popular franchises were missing very popular villains who happened to fit the heavyweight type. Or it could be both! Who knows?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Had a dream that Hitmonchan was playable in Super Smash Brothers 64. Imagine if that actually happened.

Well...Mewtwo is my favorite Pokemon, so I'd have a genuinely sad reaction.

Lucario's better

 

[Autumn ♫]

Had a dream that Hitmonchan was playable in Super Smash Brothers 64. Imagine if that actually happened.

Hitmonchan's part of the original 12! He can't get cut!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Hitmonchan's part of the original 12! He can't get cut!

We need Hitmonchan. We don't have a character to represent my dreams.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Had a dream that Hitmonchan was playable in Super Smash Brothers 64. Imagine if that actually happened.


Lucario's better

I'd actually love that. Hitmonchan is my favorite Pokemon. :D

 

[BKupa666]

Equally, however, we must ask ourselves whether Melee and Brawl each got at least one heavyweight because Sakurai wanted heavyweights, or because very popular franchises were missing very popular villains who happened to fit the heavyweight type. Or it could be both! Who knows?

It's definitely both IMO. Which is why, if a user is attempting to create a realistic roster, it's pertinent for them to analyze more than just the characters as individuals, but how they would contribute to the roster balance as well. A newcomer batch of all middleweights, or all close-ranged fistfighters, or even all unique characters just isn't realistic based on what we've seen thus far.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Lucario's better

Zoruark beats them both

 

[FlareHabanero]

It is to me, but it doesn't seem to be to others who have prediction rosters with no new heavyweight or retro character at all (these people almost always have Chrom, though). In terms of what pizzadudemanguy said, for some characters, these archetypes are part of the essence of some characters, and may find their ways in for that reason alone. However, in evaluating each successive crop of newcomers, the fact that these archetypes keep recurring in small quantities is enough to make me wonder whether this extends beyond the characters themselves and factors into Sakurai's discussion of 'balance' in a roster and its characters' playstyles.

That's probably just trying to emphasize the rule of diversity typical of many fighting games. If there is a desire to include more heavyweight characters to balance out the lightweight characters, then so be it. If there is a desire to stray away from a certain type of playstyle and focus more on unexplored ideas, then so be it. If less emphasis is put on new characters and instead fleshing out the existing characters, then so be it. It's not so much labeling characters under a certain characteristic and adding them solely because of that, but more like trying to keep up the consistency of trying to have a flexible roster. Old, new, good, evil, fast, slow, weak, strong, big, small, human, non-human, anything that will contribute to providing something interesting to talk about.

 

[?????????????]

We need Hitmonchan. We don't have a character to represent my dreams.

Better yours than mine. Mine include Zombie Marth and Zombie Ike.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

We need Hitmonchan. We don't have a character to represent my dreams.

I don't want a character from my dreams, considering the roster in my dream included Finn and Jake.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

You want to know my favorite excuse for reps? Declaring a character important because they are canonically responsible for the plot or main character of the series. You don't know how many people use that excuse for Demise from Skyward Sword.

 

[Chandeelure]

Better yours than mine. Mine include Zombie Marth and Zombie Ike.

Zombie characters for Alternate costumes!
Also...Yay! ...I'm not the only one who dreams with Smash Bros! XDD
My dream was cool,Shy Guy vs. Wii Fit Trainer!

 

[LoneKonWolf]

You want to know my favorite excuse for reps? Declaring a character important because they are canonically responsible for the plot or main character of the series. You don't know how many people use that excuse for Demise from Skyward Sword.

Demise confirmed for smash 4

Spoiler

as an alt. costume for ganondorf

 

[Lasifer]

So, how 'bout we take down this "leaked" shot?