Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Math.

Marth: 1 - 2 = 0. That's how math should really be when it comes to this.

 

[Depressed Gengar]

At least the Fire Emblem: Awakening Box would not be a clone.

Unlike Roy.

 

[APC99]

At least the Fire Emblem: Awakening Box would not be a clone.

Yer darn tooting right! Who cares about Marth, Ike, Roy, Chrom, Thing 1, Thing 2, Pop, Six, Squish, Uh-uh, Cisero, Lipschitz, Sleepy, Dopey, Grumpy, Larry, Curly, Moe, Landmaster, Fi, Fie, Fo, Fum, or the rest? FEA Box is where the real action's at!

 

[FlareHabanero]

There are plenty of people who like chrom. But when it comes to debating, simply saying "I like chrom" is a terrible argument.

This is why so many people look for other supporting reasons for why chrom should be added because arguing with people who have a enormous grudge against him isn't going to be settled with "I like the character".

While that might seem like the truth, fact of the matter is that people are often looking into the wrong area to prove a point.

Just saying, "Chrom should be added because of Fire Emblem: Awakening" is a pretty weak argument, because it ignores the main factor of the character himself. You've got to consider those that haven't played Fire Emblem: Awakening, and you got to explain why Chrom himself would be a good edition. Especially when you've got the challenge of trying to explain a different style that is not currently emulated by Marth and Ike, hell even with other possible newcomers like Shulk or Takamaru.

Same type of deal with Lucina.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

At least the Fire Emblem: Awakening Box would not be a clone.

OR WOULD IT?

----

I think referring to the character as "reps" is seen by some as "dehumanizing" a character or some word like that. It's like it doesn't matter what character it is, just as long as a certain game/genre/system is represented, hence the Awakening box joke.

The idea of 'reps" doesn't bother me, though. A character can be supported both because he/she represents something (ex: Awakening), and because the character has actual merits that make it stand above other "Awakening reps".

-----

 

[TheTuninator]

While that might seem like the truth, fact of the matter is that people are often looking into the wrong area to prove a point.

Just saying, "Chrom should be added because of Fire Emblem: Awakening" is a pretty weak argument, because it ignores the main factor of the character himself. You've got to consider those that haven't played Fire Emblem: Awakening, and you got to explain why Chrom himself would be a good edition. Especially when you've got the challenge of trying to explain a different style that is not currently emulated by Marth and Ike, hell even with other possible newcomers like Shulk or Takamaru.

Same type of deal with Lucina.

The single most requested FE character doesn't have a different or unique style, and when included in Melee was done so with no regard for people who hadn't played his game.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

We all know that Lucina would be Marth's alternate costume considering her cross dressing tendencies while the former is an all out pretty boy.

 

[APC99]

While that might seem like the truth, fact of the matter is that people are often looking into the wrong area to prove a point.

Just saying, "Chrom should be added because of Fire Emblem: Awakening" is a pretty weak argument, because it ignores the main factor of the character himself. You've got to consider those that haven't played Fire Emblem: Awakening, and you got to explain why Chrom himself would be a good edition. Especially when you've got the challenge of trying to explain a different style that is not currently emulated by Marth and Ike, hell even with other possible newcomers like Shulk or Takamaru.

Same type of deal with Lucina.

It seems that the only reasons so far I've heard of besides that are due to recency or because they like the character themselves. I think the same applies to Tharja and Lucina as well. I'm not saying that I'd be angry if Chrom was in the game, it's just that currently there's not enough of a case to prove to me, a kid who hasn't played a single Fire Emblem game yet (but really wants to), that another swordsman Fire Emblem character needs to be in Super Smash Bros. 4. So far, I haven't found any movesets that stand out for Chrom, they're all "he uses a sword" like Marth, Roy and Ike. I want an original character, not a semi-clone.

 

[BKupa666]

Basically, if everyone spouting relevance and reps were arguing on behalf of stages, not characters, they'd be perfectly sound in their reasoning. Otherwise, their points are really just more eloquent variations on "BOB'S IN A NEW GAME, BOB FOR SMASH!" and "THE BOB SERIES DESERVES X Y AND Z IN SMASH." IMO, a forum full of sensible discussion ought to be encouraged, since it's vastly more preferable than one full of toxicity, like the above points tend to produce. See, you can't really debate relevance or reps in anything but a pissing contest..."This character is in because he's relevant and his series needs reps!" "No, this one does!" And on and on you go.

 

[Starcutter]

while you hive-minds are going for chrom, my awakening rep would bee Robin. Stings, doesn't it?

Spoiler

I don't like birds that much tho

 

[TheLastJinjo]

someone start a thread so it can be just as valid a suggestion as Kawashima/Nintendog/Diskun!

Comparing Diskun to a box and a real life dog certainly shows how much you know.

 

[SuperBrawler]

Comparing a puzzle piece to a box, floating head, and a real life dog certainly shows how much you know.

Fixed.

 

[Starcutter]

"BOB'S IN A NEW GAME, BOB FOR SMASH!" and "THE BOB SERIES DESERVES X Y AND Z IN SMASH."

BOB FOR SMASH
☻/
/▌
/ \

 

[FlareHabanero]

The single most requested FE character doesn't have a different or unique style, and when included in Melee was done so with no regard for people who hadn't played his game.

Technically speaking, Marth did have a unique play style that wasn't really emulated at the time. Swordplay by combining speed and agility, with an emphasis on chaining attacks and properly spacing. Not many characters would of been able to emulate that, and even when we got Young Link and Roy as a last minute clones, Marth still had the perfect blend of moves and playstyle that gave him the contrast and effectiveness that makes him a pretty popular Super Smash Bros. character to this day.

It seems that the only reasons so far I've heard of besides that are due to recency or because they like the character themselves. I think the same applies to Tharja and Lucina as well. I'm not saying that I'd be angry if Chrom was in the game, it's just that currently there's not enough of a case to prove to me, a kid who hasn't played a single Fire Emblem game yet (but really wants to), that another swordsman Fire Emblem character needs to be in Super Smash Bros. 4. So far, I haven't found any movesets that stand out for Chrom, they're all "he uses a sword" like Marth, Roy and Ike. I want an original character, not a semi-clone.

This is exactly why I don't find the character appealing. Why should we bother to have Chrom when we already have Marth and Ike? It wouldn't make any difference if he shows up or not.

 

[TheTuninator]

Technically speaking, Marth did have a unique play style that wasn't really emulated at the time. Swordplay by combining speed and agility, with an emphasis on chaining attacks and properly spacing. Not many characters would of been able to emulate that, and even when we got Young Link and Roy as a last minute clones, Marth still had the perfect blend of moves and playstyle that gave him the contrast and effectiveness that makes him a pretty popular Super Smash Bros. character to this day.

I'm not talking about Marth, though. I'm talking about Roy. Marth absolutely has a unique playstyle, which Roy aped with minor changes, and yet he's still easily the most-requested "new" FE character for SSB4.

 

[Bowserlick]

Marth also had three unique specials when he was introduced. The counter was introduced in Melee. His Dancing Blade was a make your combo. And the shield breaker's focus was breaking shields (and charged in place like a Smash).

*Marth also had a mechanic. The tip of his sword caused more knockback in his sword moves.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm not talking about Marth, though. I'm talking about Roy. Marth absolutely has a unique playstyle, which Roy aped with minor changes, and yet he's still easily the most-requested "new" FE character for SSB4.

Sometimes I wonder how Leif would play out as a character if he was included in Melee.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

So far, I haven't found any movesets that stand out for Chrom, they're all "he uses a sword" like Marth, Roy and Ike. I want an original character, not a semi-clone.

Obviously, you haven't looked.
Here's one I am going to make up on the spot.
upB: Lauches chrom into the air, pressing b a second time will send chrom downward at a 45degree angle.
http://youtu.be/aoaPXlKYoIo?t=12s
B: javelin thow, chrom throws a javelin
side B: Aether
Think pikachu's upB but with two dashes, limited to the ground. Also slower and more powerful.
downb: Leap
think ZSS's down b. Powerful impact at the end.
http://youtu.be/aToxp8TOgC4?t=2m3s


Keep in mind, what I just put out there has taken no liberties. When adding Ike, sakurai made Ike a slow/strong character with the move erruption despite this not representing ike from FE9 (Ike's speed growth rate was actually higher than his strength for instance).

 

[SuperBrawler]

I hate people.

 

[Seraphim.]

Sometimes I wonder how Leif would play out as a character if he was included in Melee.

He would of been a Marth clone just like Roy was. Only difference would of been Light based attacks instead of fire.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm not talking about Marth, though. I'm talking about Roy. Marth absolutely has a unique playstyle, which Roy aped with minor changes, and yet he's still easily the most-requested "new" FE character for SSB4.

I guess the main advantage of Roy is that everyone is already familiar with the character due to his appearance in Melee. At the same time, people do over exaggerate that Roy would be a highly unique character. Considering his status as a clone in Melee, he's more then likely going to get minimal changes in order to not alienate the people that are familiar with his playstyle.

 

[Starcutter]

I guess the main advantage of Roy is that everyone is already familiar with the character due to his appearance in Melee. At the same time, people do over exaggerate that Roy would be a highly unique character. Considering his status as a clone in Melee, he's more then likely going to get minimal changes in order to not alienate the people that are familiar with his playstyle.

but he has fire! everyone likes fire!

 

[?????????????]

On the terms "reps" and "relevancy"...

"Relevancy" on it's own doesn't mean anything in terms of characters. What is it "relevant" to? To new games? To the series? What CAN play a factor are things that might make up "relevancy;" popularity of a character can lead to more appearances of a character, which can lead to that character becoming a more developed, being even MORE liked, and becoming a staple of the game they are from. I think Lucario is an example. But it isn't a be-all end-all factor that decides every character that makes up SSB's roster; some characters are added specifically BECAUSE they haven't been "relevant" in a while. However, I DO think it is something to consider when adding characters to already existing franchises in SSB.

I think "Reps" is an appropriate term to use when talking about characters in relation to their games. Yes, the characters themselves are important, but I think the games they come from are just as important. Lucas is a generally well-liked character on his own, of course, but he is additionally the only playable character coming out of MOTHER 3, a very good game. He, like Ness, even use attacks and weapons of other characters from their games. A character can easily become more recognizable and desired because of the game they were from, and I think that's MORE than fair, considering that we're looking at a game. On a side note, this is a reason I don't like seeing rosters that cut Lucas. It's a **** you to anyone who liked MOTHER 3 more than Earthbound.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The fact that people use Diskun's appearance on boxes to ignore his role as a mascot and video game protaginist makes me wonder if people are bias or just plain stupid. Yeah, Diskun is just a puzzle piece. And Kirby is just a pink testicle.

Nonetheless, it makes this thread less credible considering how often that happens. It's like the "Ridely is too big" of Smash Boards.

 

[BluePikmin11]

but he has fire! everyone likes fire!

Not Smokey Bear.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Awakening selling games doesn't tell me anything about Chrom. It tells me people liked the GAME. What if the main character was Narth: A Marth with pink hair. Should we add him because "Oh, teh game sold more than tat wun!!!". This proves nothing about how popular Chrom is or even how much people give a **** about him. This is as valid of a reason to claim Lissa is more iconic and deserving than Roy. I don't care how much people liked the game, I care how much people liked this specific character from the game.

Even if a game sold more, that doesn't even mean it's more important to Nintendo's History. Yeah, XenoBlade was more well received and bought, but did Nintendo give it 4 sequels or have a cross over with other Nintendo characters?

 

[Gune]

I hate people.

Yet you interact with them.

 

[FlareHabanero]

but he has fire! everyone likes fire!

Fire is my fetish, but that boy got some flimsy fire going on I tell you what.

Captain Falcon fella over there? That guy has some serious fire going on.

He just comes up walking down the street, all tough and bold. You make eye contact with him, and then suddenly

FWOOSH!

POW!

KA-BOOM!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If anything Roy is more unique than Chrom considering both would be clones and if they weren't an Axe is certainly more unique than a shard on a stick. (Unless it's Krystal or Waddle Dee)

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

KA-BOOM!

I couldnt resist the opportunity

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

but he has fire! everyone likes fire!

Roy: Eye kan bee younike becuz eye haz phiiiiirrrrreeeee!

 

[?????????????]

I don't care how much people liked the game, I care how much people liked this specific character from the game.

Then I defer back to my roster that adds Paper Mario, Fawful, K. Rool, Skull Kid, Tetra, Hades, Mewtwo, Sceptile, Snorlax, Lyn, Chrom, Henry, Gaius, Tharja, the Avatar, Duster, Claus, Shulk, Isaac, Little Mac, and Simon Belmont. And removes Ice Climbers, G&W, ROB, Jigglypuff, and Ness.

 

[TheTuninator]

If anything Roy is more unique than Chrom considering both would be clones and if they weren't an Axe is certainly more unique than a shard on a stick. (Unless it's Krystal or Waddle Dee)

Chrom's likely to be more unique than Roy. A returning Roy would likely largely emulate his Melee clone moveset for the benefit of Melee Roy fans, while Chrom could be more of a Wolf to Marth's Fox as Chrom has no need to adhere to a pre-existing moveset.

Sakurai could just as easily decide to completely declone Roy, though, so it's a bit of a moot point.

 

[Starcutter]

Roy: Eye kan bee younike becuz eye haz phiiiiirrrrreeeee!

Eye kan bee younike

bee

pleas. bee puns are my thing as of earlier today, don't rob me of my newfound pleasure.

 

[Seraphim.]

Chrom's likely to be more unique than Roy. A returning Roy would likely largely emulate his Melee clone moveset for the benefit of Melee Roy fans, while Chrom could be more of a Wolf to Marth's Fox as Chrom has no need to adhere to a pre-existing moveset.

Sakurai could just as easily decide to completely declone Roy, though, so it's a bit of a moot point.

I'm sure most Melee Roy fans would NOT want him to be similar to his Melee self.

 

[BKupa666]

On the terms "reps" and "relevancy"...

"Relevancy" on it's own doesn't mean anything in terms of characters. What is it "relevant" to? To new games? To the series? What CAN play a factor are things that might make up "relevancy;" popularity of a character can lead to more appearances of a character, which can lead to that character becoming a more developed, being even MORE liked, and becoming a staple of the game they are from. I think Lucario is an example. But it isn't a be-all end-all factor that decides every character that makes up SSB's roster; some characters are added specifically BECAUSE they haven't been "relevant" in a while. However, I DO think it is something to consider when adding characters to already existing franchises in SSB.

I think "Reps" is an appropriate term to use when talking about characters in relation to their games. Yes, the characters themselves are important, but I think the games they come from are just as important. Lucas is a generally well-liked character on his own, of course, but he is additionally the only playable character coming out of MOTHER 3, a very good game. He, like Ness, even use attacks and weapons of other characters from their games. A character can easily become more recognizable and desired because of the game they were from, and I think that's MORE than fair, considering that we're looking at a game. On a side note, this is a reason Idon't like seeing rosters that cut Lucas. It's a **** you to anyone who liked MOTHER 3 more than Earthbound.

For whatever it's worth, I always read your posts in your speaking voice from your videos.

You're pretty much spot-on regarding "relevance," and since the inner workings of it you mentioned boil down to popularity and importance, I figure it's best to focus on those and omit a superfluous item. Heck, same regarding your "reps" points, although to what degree Sakurai aims to encapsulate Mother 3 as a game within Lucas' moveset, we may never know; he may just have thought some of the PSI attacks suited his playstyle well, and that it was feasible his friends could have taught them to him. These are reasonable analyses of the two points, rather than just a flowcharty process of "Add one slot to rep each series that 'deserves' it, then choose the most recently-appearing character to be that rep." Hopefully any fans skimming the boards can take something away from them.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Yadayada.

Give me a call when Fire Emblem becomes interesting. It's two different groups slamming into the same brick wall, it's pointless to pick sides because it leads to the same exact scenario. A scenario where a last minute clone is included much to the fanfare of all two people. That's not exciting, that's boring and a rather weak addition. This is why coveting for other franchises feels more satisfactory.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

pleas. bee puns are my thing as of earlier today, don't rob me of my newfound pleasure.

I did it on purpose for the sake of playing alone with the derpy "Roy can be unique because of fire" joke. I'm not stealing your act, you silly Beedrill.

 

[Starcutter]

Then I defer back to my roster that adds Paper Mario, Fawful, K. Rool, Skull Kid, Tetra, Hades, Mewtwo, Sceptile, Snorlax, Lyn, Chrom, Henry, Gaius, Tharja, the Avatar, Duster, Claus, Shulk, Isaac, Little Mac, and Simon Belmont. And removes Ice Climbers, G&W, ROB, Jigglypuff, and Ness.

you know something? I have a REALLY bad roster that I made a YEAR before I even knew about the site. it's really bad. let me go find it.
[collapse=Even back then though I was a big fan of pokemon mystery dungeon 2]

[/collapse]
Ugh why did I ever think having 3 pokemon exclusively inspired from pmd was a good idea? and banjo? and zoroark? everyone else tho I still kinda support. especially grovyle.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Yadadada.

Give me a call when Fire Emblem becomes interesting. It's two different groups slamming into the same brick wall, it's pointless to pick sides because it leads to the same exact scenario. A scenario where a last minute clone is included much to the fanfare of all two people. That's not exciting, that's boring and a rather weak addition. This is why coveting for other franchises feels more satisfactory.

Why did you even bother to say anything in the first place?