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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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FinalStarmen

FinalStarmen

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shinhed-echi said:
If May's the release date, then Sakurai's been lagging in terms of advertising.

At this current state, more people will download P:M than buy SSB4.

A new trailer is long overdue.
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No way within 7 torturous Hells will the game be released quite prematurely within the end of Spring 2014 - it seems much too early. Fall 2014, perhaps around October/November, (or even into early 2015) would be a much more approachable time period for release.

Scoliosis Jones said:
So i'm seeing leaked release dates on a few different sites. Supposedly, the release date is May 16th, 2014.

What do you guys think of that? Me? I don't know. I'd have to go with fake, but i'd like it to be true.

(basically a bad attempt to revive conversation)
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Where are these reputable sites located at, exactly?

Pacack said:
Daitoryo does not have any significant problems like the other characters listed. He is based off of an actual person, but is in a unique art style that makes that a non-issue (it also helps that Napoleon can't sue Nintendo for using his likeness). He did not originate in a video game, but R.O.B. proves that this isn't a factor (at least for historical characters).
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There is but one particular concern for the character that attracts noticeable attention.

Unlike R.O.B. who is a video-game peripheral accessory that also operated as its own console/controller device, and arguably prevented the entire industry from shutting itself down permanently (and therefore correspondent with Nintendo and the video-game industry), Daitoryo is from a handmade Hanafuda playing card game whose only pertinent association with Nintendo is within its initial origins as a preliminary card company, none of which is related to video games in general. If we are to go by Sakurai's criteria for character inclusion, we have to understand the character must have connections with a video game, as R.O.B. does in articulate spades. Daitoryo is, again, a trading card, not a peripheral accessory or even a representational mascot, but a trading card, which severely limits his chances to a mere fractional number because his origins lie not within a video game, no different than the likes of Goku or Miyamoto.

You may also potentially argue that Daitoryo is historically representative of Nintendo's origination, yet as said before, there has yet to be such an occurrence of a character being included for reasons mostly-unrelated to video games and the consoles/accessories/mascots themselves (like, say, Nestor from Nintendo Power). Nintendo was also primarily invested in other small-time businesses, such as love testers, taxis, and instant noodles. By extension of being consumer product sold from an electronics company and therefore being interconnected, Daitoryo only shares the same sinking boat as all the other consumer products.

There has yet to be precedence for Daitoryo to gain entry-way into playable character inclusion.
 
Louie G.

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For the record, I hate when people compare Project M to an actual Smash game made by Nintendo.
Project M is a mod. A good mod, but a mod.
SSB4 is a game, created by Nintendo for the Wii U that will sell millions of copies for having the words "Super Smash Bros" on it.
Anyone saying that Project M is competition for Smash 4 is out of their minds.
 
BluePikmin11

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There's also tons of exclusive Japan Nintendo games of Hanafuda, and one referenced in Pikmin 2.
Wouldn't that count also and benefit Daitouryou's inclusion since Nintendo is really acknowledging Hanafuda.
 
TheLastJinjo

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Hope everyone is having fun. I just bought my Walter White costume which Imma wear to school tomorrow. What's the subject?
 
FinalStarmen

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SaturnGamer64 said:
Hope everyone is having fun. I just bought my Walter White costume which Imma wear to school tomorrow. What's the subject?
Click to expand...

You will certainly be the one who knocks on all the doors. Oh, and we are now discussing Hanafuda trading cards as playable characters.

BluePikmin11 said:
There's also tons of exclusive Japan Nintendo games of Hanafuda, and one referenced in Pikmin 2.
Wouldn't that count also and benefit Daitouryou's inclusion.
Click to expand...

Please provide me the sources.

EDIT: So you have provided me the sources. Well done. Yet, how many of these games even incorporate Daitouryou with any sort of role within the games, let alone any? Not unless we go by the standard set by Mr. Game & Watch and simply create an entirely-new representational character for the series, thus doing away with Daitouryou in place of such a character.

However, there is still the problematic aspect in that the Hanafuda video games are not nearly as importantly critical to Nintendo (as a commercially-viable product) as the trading card games. Therefore, if anything, the trading card games are the deciding factor in such a conclusion, not the video games based on it.

The generic basis of the Daitouryou support-base' argumentation goes something like this - the Hanafuda trading card games are an essential historical embodiment of Nintendo's earliest days, and would therefore represent a historical aspect of the company in similar vein to R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch. Yet, when you consider the fact that, at its core heart, it's importance lies within the trading card game, and not the video games based on it, then the prioritized usefulness of Daitouryou and Hanafuda (to video games in general) is now even critically less so.
 
BluePikmin11

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FinalStarmen said:
You will certainly be the one who knocks on all the doors. Oh, and we are now discussing Hanafuda trading cards as playable characters.




Please provide me the sources.
Click to expand...
http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Hanafuda
The following are a list of video games with Hanafuda in them in one form or another.
Click to expand...
 
TheLastJinjo

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FinalStarmen said:
Oh, and we are now discussing Hanafuda trading cards as
Click to expand...
Allow me to pull my pants down and **** all over this conversation then! :colorful:


Pacack said:
I have one big problem with how you're looking at this.
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As will I in just a second

Pacack said:
Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B. are not simply "WTF" characters. They are historical characters.
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They are HARDWARE characters. Not a valid comparison AT ALL.

Pacack said:
They are representing a part of Nintendo's history
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Like every Nintendo character?

Pacack said:
that is their defining characteristic. WFT is more like ZSS or Sheik, who were (female) newcomers (that were revealed at E3) that not many people thought about, but which made sense in hindsight. WFT is also like Pokemon Trainer; the protagonist of a popular Nintendo franchise that simply got overlooked by speculators.
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WTF is not a category or a characteristic. It's a reaction to the addition of a character.

Pacack said:
Looking at it from the point of view that we have not gotten our historical surprise character, we can look at the possible candidates that people have come up with:
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Again, HARDWARE character! Completely different concept and category ENTIRELY

Pacack said:
EVR Racer (Are you serious!? That game has no characters, references, ports, or throwbacks, or footage. It might as well not even exist.)
Harry (from Teleroboxer) (why? It's not like he's the mascot of the failed abomination you seem to find reason to waste a character slot on)
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Pacack said:
Out of these, Sheriff is not the first Nintendo character
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Yes he is. EVR Racer featured no characters. Who do you propose WAS the first Nintendo character?

Pacack said:
Diskun is not all that important to Nintendo's history
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The cute and memorable mascot for the commonly referenced and successful add-on to the revolutionary Famicom is NOT important to Nintendo's History!?

Pacack said:
EVR Racer is the first Nintendo character
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Something tells me you don't know ANYTHING about that game. You literally declared a characterless game itself to be a character.

Pacack said:
but is difficult to make a playable character
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Because there is none. And you're suggesting Daitoryo wouldn't be difficult to make into a playable character? When all he has are cards?

Pacack said:
and Harry is really even less important to Nintendo's history than even Diskun.
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This is implying Diskun isn't important to Nintendo's history. Which he is. Maybe you don't know about the success and memory of the Famicom Disk System and that he was the mascot for this important hardware.

Pacack said:
Daitoryo does not have any significant problems like the other characters listed.
Click to expand...
You mean like being barely important to Nintendo's History and difficult to give a remotely feasible move set? BOTH the reasons you gave to the other characters! Except this time it is true.

Pacack said:
He is based off of an actual person, but
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I'm sorry, no. There is no "but" after that statement.

Pacack said:
is in a unique art style that makes that a non-issue
Click to expand...
Says you. Do you decide what Sakurai considers an issue or not?

Pacack said:
He did not originate in a video game, but R.O.B. proves that this isn't a factor (at least for historical characters).
Click to expand...
ROB was a HARDWARE character actually related to the gaming industry and was INVENTED by Nintendo. Napoleon was not invented by Nintendo and had no relation to the gaming industry.

Pacack said:
Using that logic, am I wrong to assume that Daitoryo is the most reasonable and likely historical character that we've guessed so far?
Click to expand...
WHAT LOGIC!?!?!? And yes, it is wrong to assume based off of that abomination you deemed "logic."
 
TumblrFamous

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So, Palutena discussion and a possible Mii reveal tomorrow? Finally, a topic I like.

First, Palutena. She's in my top 3 most wanted characters. I think popularity helps her. Sakurai does work with popularity, I remember the article after Brawl E3, talking about the newcomers in the trailer. He basically said that the majority of the characters were chosen because people really wanted to see them. I'm sure that wasn't the ultimate factor, but it certainly helped. Besides popularity, she is important to the KI franchise, has potential to be a unique fighter (a bit subjective, since you can virtually say that about anyone), and she was recently worked on by Sakurai. I know his modesty put Kirby characters aside before, but I feel it would be different. I mean, he does look at polls.

A Mii reveal? Possible and plausible. I would be very happy if we saw the Miis as newcomers, they make perfect sense and deserve to be in the game. I guess we can hope.
 
Pacack

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FinalStarmen said:
There is but one particular concern for the character that attracts noticeable attention.

Unlike R.O.B. who is a video-game peripheral accessory that also operated as its own console/controller device, and arguably prevented the entire industry from shutting itself down permanently (and therefore correspondent with Nintendo and the video-game industry), Daitoryo is from a handmade Hanafuda playing card game whose only pertinent association with Nintendo is within its initial origins as a preliminary card company, none of which is related to video games in general. If we are to go by Sakurai's criteria for character inclusion, we have to understand the character must have connections with a video game, as R.O.B. does in articulate spades. Daitoryo is, again, a trading card, not a peripheral accessory or even a representational mascot, but a trading card, which severely limits his chances to a mere fractional number because his origins lie not within a video game, no different than the likes of Goku or Miyamoto.

You may also potentially argue that Daitoryo is historically representative of Nintendo's origination, yet as said before, there has yet to be such an occurrence of a character being included for reasons mostly-unrelated to video games and the consoles/accessories/mascots themselves (like, say, Nestor from Nintendo Power). Nintendo was also primarily invested in other small-time businesses, such as love testers, taxis, and instant noodles. By extension of being consumer product sold from an electronics company and therefore being interconnected, Daitoryo only shares the same sinking boat as all the other consumer products.

There has yet to be precedence for Daitoryo to gain entry-way into playable character inclusion.
Click to expand...
First off, it is definitely arguable that it even matters that a historical character has to have something to do with the both Nintendo and the video-game industry. This series is a celebration of Nintendo's franchises and history. A character that represents the very beginnings of Nintendo is significant to said history and you cannot convince me otherwise. Also, when did Sakurai actually say that a character had to be related to video games in the first place? From what I understand, that's just a notion that we came up with on our own. It was not explicitly stated by Sakurai. If I'm wrong, show me proof. Because, from where I'm standing, you have a terrible argument that is based off of false information.

Secondly, Daitoryo is not a stupid trading card! Daitoryo is the literal person or character on the front of the Daitoryo-styled hanafuda card decks. Daitoryo is not just another name for that ridiculous "Mr. Hanafuda" idea. I am talking specifically about the character that could be considered the mascot of the Daitoryo hanafuda card decks. How difficult is it to understand that?

You are using bad logic. You are arguing that, just because nothing like it has happened before, it cannot. That is, quite simply, a ridiculous assumption. When we had only the original Super Smash Bros. to work on, there was no precedence for Mr. Game and Watch's inclusion. That did not stop him from getting into Melee. I refer back to my first point on the second quarter of that paragraph. You are specifying too much and, in doing so, you are ignoring the fact that, first and foremost, the historical characters we have represent milestones in Nintendo's history. Stop being so specific. If you specify, you can make any argument seem reasonable. Going by Melee and 64's characters, there's no way we could not get a Pokemon character that was not an actual Pokemon. Yet Pokemon Trainer happened. You see what I'm saying? Your logic is faulty.

Also, hanafuda is not like the other small-time businesses that Nintendo pursued, and you know it. Hanafuda was the first thing they went into. That's more significant than any other small-time thing Nintendo went after.

No. This is what we call "proof by example". It's a logical fallacy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_example

"Structure:
I know that X is such.
Therefore, anything related to X is also such.
Argument form:
I know that x, which is a member of group X, has the property P.
Therefore, all other elements of X have the property P.
The following example demonstrates why this is a logical fallacy:
I've seen a person shoot someone dead.​
Therefore, all people are murderers."​

You are saying:
Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B. are both historical characters that have something directly to do with video games.​
Therefore, all historical characters must directly have something to do with video games.​
​
It's bad logic, plain and simple.

Good day sir, and I apologize that I got angry, but your logic annoyed me.
 
TheLastJinjo

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FinalStarmen said:
You will certainly be the one who knocks on all the doors..
Click to expand...
I AM the danger!
Pacack said:
You are saying:
Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B. are both historical characters that have something directly to do with video games.​
Therefore, all historical characters must directly have something to do with video games.​
​
It's bad logic, plain and simple.
Click to expand...
THEIR NOT HISTORY CHARACTERS!!! THEY ARE HARDWARE CHARACTERS!!! EVERY NINTENDO CHARACTER IS A HISTORY CHARACTER!
 
TheLastJinjo

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-Rhythm- said:
I don't think KI needs another rep, Pit is good enough really.
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Pit is the only one really necessary, but it deserves a second rep as much as EarthBound does and Palutena is the perfect one. She's highly requested and basically the Zelda of Kid Icarus. I think Pit & Samus are fine with just themselves, but that they will get a second character regardless.
 
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