Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Moon Monkey]

Eh, I never said that Chrom does not have a chance. I said that the Ragna Ferox Arena stage has nothing to do with Chrom's chances.

Yeah...That is the only reason why I have Chrom in the roster. I think the spot is a toss up between Chrom, Robin (My Unit) and Lucina.

 

[TheTuninator]

I think she has pretty good chance. She apparently good enough to replace Peppy in the Starfox games, so she seems to be moving up in the ranks to me.
After seeing that Villager boxing jab move I am personally worried for Lil Mac. I really want him though. Sakurai seems pretty humble about putting characters in games he worked on in Smash.

I just can't imagine why Star Fox would get another rep at this point, I guess. The series already has a lot of reps relative to most others, and popularity certainly doesn't justify another rep given how the franchise has effectively gone into stasis over the past several years.

An Awakening stage definitely improves an Awakening rep's chances, though it is of course not a confirmation. Nintendo likes to associate their stages with a specific character, and an Awakening rep has a better association with Arena Ferox than any other FE rep.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd like to hear why you think regna ferox has nothing to do with his chances. I and most people are of the opinion that it raises his chances already from the high chance he already had.

Because Awakening was always going to get a stage regardless of which character gets in. They could put Roy in instead of Chrom and we would still get the regna ferox stage.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Yeah...That is the only reason why I have Chrom in the roster. I think the spot is a toss up between Chrom, Robin (My Unit) and Lucina.

Why do you think it's a toss up when Chrom is the most recognizable and the protagonist of the game? I'm not questioning you or anything I just like to know people's opinions, it helps me rethink mine, though when it comes to fire emblem my stance is pretty firm.

Because Awakening was always going to get a stage regardless of which character gets in. They could put Roy in instead of Chrom and we would still get the regna ferox stage.

I could just as easily say Chrom was always intended to be included regardless of other characters or ideas. But that would not be true. If awakening was always gonna get a stage, than how come path of radiance did not get a stage in brawl? It's the same concept and really a stage from fire emblem with no correlation to any characters or games can be much more diverse and well received since just having a random castle being seiged and destroyed is pretty freaking awesome. I think the only reason they did pick regna ferox is because it does directly correlate with Chrom. Picture this an event that you have to beat Chrom at regna ferox, doesn't that just make the most sense in the world?

 

[TheTuninator]

Why do you think it's a toss up when Chrom is the most recognizable and the protagonist of the game? I'm not questioning you or anything I just like to know people's opinions, it helps me rethink mine, though when it comes to fire emblem my stance is pretty firm.

Lucina is also extremely popular and is a protagonist to boot. Chrom's still likelier however as Lucina's character design is much too close to Marth's. Visually, it would be extremely confusing. Sakurai also might want to avoid spoilers, which is a real concern given Awakening's recent release.

 

[FalKoopa]

I'd like to hear why you think regna ferox has nothing to do with his chances. I and most people are of the opinion that it raises his chances already from the high chance he already had.

Because Chrom's chances were so high that it possibly couldn't increase further.

Jokes aside, what SSBF said.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Lucina is also extremely popular and is a protagonist to boot. Chrom's still likelier however as Lucina's character design is much too close to Marth's. Visually, it would be extremely confusing. Sakurai also might want to avoid spoilers, which is a real concern given Awakening's recent release.

Sakurai doesn't really care about spoilers.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Lucina is also extremely popular and is a protagonist to boot. Chrom's still likelier however as Lucina's character design is much too close to Marth's. Visually, it would be extremely confusing. Sakurai also might want to avoid spoilers, which is a real concern given Awakening's recent release.

No English major here but I thought protagonist only refered to the one mainest character. Although I'm sure you just meant important character which she is. And while this is all true like you said Chrom is definetly more likely, I'd say way more likely, so I wouldn't call it a toss up, I'd call it a 1-8 seed matchup. Although you never know... Lucina=Florida gulf coast university?

 

[FalKoopa]

Picture this an event that you have to beat Chrom at regna ferox, doesn't that just make the most sense in the world?

Any Fire Emblem character would make sense.

 

[TheTuninator]

Any Fire Emblem character would make sense.

But not as much sense as Chrom. FE:A characters, specifically Chrom and Lucina, have a much stronger connection to Arena Ferox than any other FE characters.

Like I said, it's not a guarantee, but it's certainly a point in their favor given that most stages have a specific connection to a character that did something on them in that character's game.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I just can't imagine why Star Fox would get another rep at this point, I guess. The series already has a lot of reps relative to most others, and popularity certainly doesn't justify another rep given how the franchise has effectively gone into stasis over the past several years.

An Awakening stage definitely improves an Awakening rep's chances, though it is of course not a confirmation. Nintendo likes to associate their stages with a specific character, and an Awakening rep has a better association with Arena Ferox than any other FE rep.

No one could imagine why Earthbound/Mother would receive another rep either. But now we have Lucas, despite having no new recent games... So Krystal joining doesn't seem all too

to me.

Why do you think it's a toss up when Chrom is the most recognizable and the protagonist of the game? I'm not questioning you or anything I just like to know people's opinions, it helps me rethink mine, though when it comes to fire emblem my stance is pretty firm.

Robin (My Unit) seems to be more versatile and diverse in in possible movesets, being a magic & sword wielder; And some may argue that Robin/Luciana (More so Robin) are equally as important as Chrom. But Chrom does seem to be the most likely candidate.

 

[Deleted member]

I could just as easily say Chrom was always intended to be included regardless of other characters or ideas. But that would not be true. If awakening was always gonna get a stage, than how come path of radiance did not get a stage in brawl? It's the same concept and really a stage from fire emblem with no correlation to any characters or games can be much more diverse and well received since just having a random castle being seiged and destroyed is pretty freaking awesome. I think the only reason they did pick regna ferox is because it does directly correlate with Chrom. Picture this an event that you have to beat Chrom at regna ferox, doesn't that just make the most sense in the world?

A stage does not directly correlate to a character getting in. If it did, then explain Animal Crossing getting a stage in Brawl but failing to get a character then. Stages are not added for the same reason as characters are.

The reason why Awakening got a stage is because it was the only game to come out from Fire Emblem that wasn't a remake and receive massive critical acclaim. Plenty of Fire Emblem games came out during the period between Melee and Brawl (FE6, FE7, FE8, FE9 and FE10).

 

[N3ON]

No one could imagine why Earthbound/Mother would received another rep either despite having no new recent games. But now we have Lucas... So Krystal joining doesn't seem all too

me.

But we got Lucas right around when his game came out...

 

[FalKoopa]

But not as much sense as Chrom.

Watch as Sakurai puts Olimar on that stage to troll us.

Jokes aside, if you give a good example where the inclusion of a stage boosted a character's chances, I'll be inclined to accept it.

 

[papagenos]

I think Little Mac is extremely likely, especially with Villager announced Sakurais excuses for characters he almost put in brawl but didn't arent so applicable now, seems like this time hes attempting to add the characters he tried to last time... Not to mention all the new stuff Mac has at his disposal having a relevant current game.

This is my Dream Roster:

This is what I would consider to be my definition of a Realistic Roster:

I think it would be up in the air between King K. Rool and Dixie Kong when it comes to a DK newcomer.
Toon Link, Palutena, Krystal and Litte Mac are four characters I don't think will make it when I really think about it.
One we get 1 or 2 more newcomers I think I'll have a better "Realistic Roster."

 

[TheTuninator]

Watch as Sakurai puts Olimar on that stage to troll us.

Jokes aside, if you give a good example where the inclusion of a stage boosted a character's chances, I'll be inclined to accept it.

Obviously there's no way to argue this, as I am not privy to Sakurai's thought process. My thought process is simply based on the fact that most, if not all playable characters in Smash have a stage from their game, at least as far as I am aware. Thus, if we know that there is an Awakening stage, an Awakening rep becomes a more likely possibility.

 

[LordFluffy]

Instead of typing out just who i'd like to see in smash 4, here's a video a made doing that for me

(you can ignore the shameless plug at the end, it is only if you're interested)

 

[Noler_Mass]

Sakurai doesn't really care about spoilers.

One instance doesn't neccessarily make a pattern. He could feel more strongly about the Lucina spoiler. Not hating, but I don't neccessarily like when people don't consider aspects of a character just because they are featured elsewhere. A specific one is Ridley. The truth of it is that size for Ridley MIGHT not matter, it's all a matter of assumption. The fact of the matter is it probably does though. Ridley was not only not included in brawl even though considered a shoo in, but instead was a huge boss. I really think this speaks for himself what sakurai thinks of Ridley. I mean it's pretty obvious that he must like Ridley, if you think about it he was the only character outside of wario to receive two different costumes (pushing the definition there I know). Ridley definetly has a chance, that's completely obvious. He has been seen as a smaller size on occasion. But he also has a chance of not being in, and being the popular character that he is, size really is the only thing standing in his way. Now for the two popular counter examples to my thought process bowser and Olimar. As for bowser for one thing most of the appearances that he towers over Mario were made after his original inclusion in Melee, second of all he is the most iconic video game villain ever created, so sacrifices can be made, and lastly he is portrayed at a smaller size as often, or even more often than he is pictured to tower over Mario. As for Olimar he is the protagonist of a fairly popular Nintendo game and without him the game would not be reped at all, so sacrifices can be made. But also while he may be two inches tall or whatever, everything in the game is also this size. From the point of view of the gamer, he is the exact size as everybody else in the Nintendo universe, same goes for Kirby. For Ridleys case though, the viewer sees him as exponentially larger than samus, who is already reped in super smash bros. I know the rant is kind of random, and I definetly understand that Ridley has the kind of reputation that could get him into smash bros regardless, but more people need to understand that size is most definetly a problem to his inclusion.

But not as much sense as Chrom. FE:A characters, specifically Chrom and Lucina, have a much stronger connection to Arena Ferox than any other FE characters.

Like I said, it's not a guarantee, but it's certainly a point in their favor given that most stages have a specific connection to a character that did something on them in that character's game.

You just made my day. This is 150% what I wanted to get across. I think it goes in Chroms favor the most since at that point you don't even know its Lucina yet.

A stage does not directly correlate to a character getting in. If it did, then explain Animal Crossing getting a stage in Brawl but failing to get a character then. Stages are not added for the same reason as characters are.

The reason why Awakening got a stage is because it was the only game to come out from Fire Emblem that wasn't a remake and receive massive critical acclaim. Plenty of Fire Emblem games came out during the period between Melee and Brawl (FE6, FE7, FE8, FE9 and FE10).

Not every stage has to correlate with characters, that much is obvious. But some definetly do, shadow Moses island, green hill zone, icicle mountain, luigis mansion, and flat zone to name a few. Regna ferox is so specific a stage that would correlate with Chrom perfectly that it definetly could be a stage that does correlate with a characters inclusion.

And why exactly shouldn't remakes and sequels warrant stage inclusion? They are just as much fire emblem games as the others are.

 

[Moon Monkey]

But we got Lucas right around when his game came out...

Well that's what I get for not looking it up...
But I find this news odd because, Starfox Command came out that year too, and Krystal was still shown no love. (well she may have been considered who knows) After appearing in 3 new Starfox games.

I think Little Mac is extremely likely, especially with Villager announced Sakurais excuses for characters he almost put in brawl but didn't arent so applicable now, seems like this time hes attempting to add the characters he tried to last time... Not to mention all the new stuff Mac has at his disposal having a relevant current game.

The only reason why I am skeptical of the Villager is because of his jab boxing move. The design of his gloves closely resembles the Punch Out!! gloves. and The Villager seems to be using some retro characters as moves as well like his balloon fighter recovery

 

[TheTuninator]

Wolf probably knocked Krystal out of the running, which is unfortunate for Krystal fans, but understandable. Sakurai likes adding villains once franchises get to a certain level of representation, and Krystal as a secondary protagonist/love interest is less important than Wolf as the rival.

 

[Deleted member]

I'll say again, if stage = character, then where's our Nintendog fighter?
Would it be a Labrador Retriever like Brawl's AT? With it's Final Smash being what it does in Brawl?
Would it be a cat? (Maybe a Nintendogs + Cats version of Sakurai's Cat?)

Would it be one of the toys, since the characters are the size of toys in the Nintendogs stage? The Talking Bird, perhaps? Or even the Stuffed Dog? Who wouldn't want to play as a stuffed animal come to life? And if it was the Stuffed Dog, then no one would feel bad about beating up actual puppies or kittens.

After all, Sakurai changed his mind on the Villager, and Nintendogs IS a major series for Nintendo....

 

[TheTuninator]

I'll say again, if stage = character, then where's our Nintendog fighter?

Not what I'm saying! I'm saying that most characters, particularly newcomers, have a stage from one of their games that is directly associated with them. Ergo, seeing an Awakening stage makes an Awakening rep a more likely inclusion, since FE is already repped in Smash.

I can get behind a Nintendog fighter.

 

[FalKoopa]

More examples of spoilers:

Lucas's trophy description.

The younger of twin brothers living in Tazmily Village in the Nowhere Islands. He's a kind boy who can communicate with animals, but he's shy and never really got over the tragedy that struck his mother. He fights a warped dictatorship, hunts the Seven Needles, and crosses swords with his missing brother, Claus. In the end, the young boy with psychic PSI powers grows up.

spoils Masked Man's identity completely.

Also, the fact that Ness destroyed the Porky statue with PK Flash is also a spoiler.

Noler, your argument is invalid.

 

[Noler_Mass]

I'll say again, if stage = character, then where's our Nintendog fighter?
Would it be a Labrador Retriever like Brawl's AT? With it's Final Smash being what it does in Brawl?
Would it be a cat? (Maybe a Nintendogs + Cats version of Sakurai's Cat?)

Would it be one of the toys, since the characters are the size of toys in the Nintendogs stage? The Talking Bird, perhaps? Or even the Stuffed Dog? Who wouldn't want to play as a stuffed animal come to life? And if it was the Stuffed Dog, then no one would feel bad about beating up actual puppies or kittens.

After all, Sakurai changed his mind on the Villager, and Nintendogs IS a major series for Nintendo....

I'm still supporting black pug for smash. No joke.

But you look me in the eye and tell me that sky world was not added due to pits inclusion, or flat zone wasn't added due to game and watches inclusion. I said it in my big post but not all stages are added due to having fighters that go with them, but some most definetly are.

More examples of spoilers:

Lucas's trophy description.

spoils Masked Man's identity completely.

Also, the fact that Ness destroyed the Porky statue with PK Flash is also a spoiler.

Noler, your argument is invalid.

Alright... even though most of the argument was me derailing onto Ridley anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

It's one thing to have characters get a stage after they have been included.

But a character after a stage is completely different.
Such as Villager.
So yeah, expect a Nintendog fighter, everyone

WAIT.
Robopup. I forgot Robopup.
Robopup for Smash!!!

 

[Deleted member]

How about the fact that Fire Emblem got two characters in Melee yet no stage? Only further shows that a stage does not correlate to a character's inclusion.

 

[Deleted member]

To be fair, a stage was planned. It wasn't finished.

 

[papagenos]

How about the fact that Fire Emblem got two characters in Melee yet no stage? Only further shows that a stage does not correlate to a character's inclusion.

Exactly. There is no ryhmn or reason to any of this there are no "rules", just likeliness pointing slightly more in one direction or another. It's all up to Sakurai and he definitely does not make the smash game the fans assume, he makes his version and we all just have to live with it.

 

[Moon Monkey]

We should stop making up these unofficial qualifications for adding characters, based off of patterns. We are just going to be needlessly boxing ourselves into a corner.

 

[Frostwraith]

We should stop making up these unofficial qualifications for adding characters, based off of patterns. We are just going to be needlessly boxing ourselves into a corner.

With Wii Fit Trainer, Link's looks not being (entirely) based on Skyward Sword, Mario still having FLUDD, this new Smash proved once again that there are no patterns.

 

[Noler_Mass]

How about the fact that Fire Emblem got two characters in Melee yet no stage? Only further shows that a stage does not correlate to a character's inclusion.

There are examples either way of characters being included with no stages and stages being included with no characters, that's obvious. But there are also plenty of stages that do correlate with a characters inclusion.

I feel extremely strongly that regna ferox especially correlates with a character because of how much sense it would make. Regna ferox is by no means the most well known venue in awakening. There are many other places in awakening that not only are more famous, but do a better job at representing fire emblem as a whole. Castle plegia is a great example, or the table, or the rainbow mountain where you find naga, or the volcano where you fight yen'fay. All of these venues are familiar venues throughout fire emblem, an evil castle, a castle court, a volcano, a spectacular mountain. Yet the venue chosen is one that horribly represents fire emblem. It makes fire emblem seem like a a fighting game with gladiators. To my knowledge of the games that I played, this is the only stage that is played like a gladiator ring with people watching, other than random arenas that you can find in some of the handheld versions which are extremely minor. Since I don't think the stage does a good job at representing the game or the series, it has a good chance of being the case that is meant to represent something else, something that would make a whoooooole lot of sense. And that would be Chrom/masked Marth. They are the champions who fight it out on this stage. While other fighters are present in the stage, the stage revolves around the very brawl-like duel between masked Marth and Chrom. This duel is the only thing that this stage does a good job at representing which makes me think that it raises chroms already great chances, as well as hopefully a masked Marth alternate costume.

Also my reasoning isn't due to any pattern, it's due to how the game is portrayed through fire emblem which is radically different.

 

[papagenos]

Excellent analysis Noler_Mass, you've convinced me chroms probably in. I didn't doubt him but I am not a fire emblem player and I had no idea the details of this particular stage involving marth and chrom fighting. Also you are very right in saying the arena doesn't rep the series well since it gives you a wrong impression of the style but instead reps two possible smash characters famous battle well, so I'm gonna say this points to chrom being confirmed however this is a specific case with all the reasons you gave and we must still avoid assuming stages = characters unless like in this instance the stage does indeed specifically point to a character... Metaknights stage in brawl is another good example of a stage clearly reping the character and not fitting the style of the game

 

[Noler_Mass]

Excellent analysis Noler_Mass, you've convinced me chroms probably in. I didn't doubt him but I am not a fire emblem player and I had no idea the details of this particular stage involving marth and chrom fighting. Also you are very right in saying the arena doesn't rep the series well since it gives you a wrong impression of the style but instead reps two possible smash characters famous battle well, so I'm gonna say this points to chrom being confirmed however this is a specific case with all the reasons you gave and we must still avoid assuming stages = characters unless like in this instance the stage does indeed specifically point to a character... Metaknights stage in brawl is another good example of a stage clearly reping the character and not fitting the style of the game

And wasn't the metaknight stage unveiled before metaknight? Because this would be a much similar situation indeed.

 

[Frostwraith]

Or perhaps Arena Ferox was chosen because it was feasible as a stage to fight in?

It's not like Fire Emblem has exactly memorable locations, hence why Sakurai probably made Castle Siege a generic stage.

Also, will Arena Ferox be 3DS exclusive? What if they add the Tower of Guidance as a FE stage for the Wii U version? After all, Sakurai stated that stages on Wii U and 3DS would be mostly based on home console titles and handheld titles, respectively.

 

[FalKoopa]

I like to think that we will get a WiiU Fire Emblem stage based on one in development for the Wii U.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Or perhaps Arena Ferox was chosen because it was feasible as a stage to fight in?

It's not like Fire Emblem has exactly memorable locations, hence why Sakurai probably made Castle Siege a generic stage.

Also, will Arena Ferox be 3DS exclusive? What if they add the Tower of Guidance as a FE stage for the Wii U version? After all, Sakurai stated that stages on Wii U and 3DS would be mostly based on home console titles and handheld titles, respectively.

If there is an awakening character, which there likely will be, I'd say it will probably be on both. If it isn't on both tower of guidance would make a lot of sense, but it could easily be a crappy constantly rising stage which would suck. What would make it alright is if on each level of the tower as you rise the boss from the stage appears and starts hassling you so first lekain and hetzel would rain light magic on you, then the black knight attacks with alondite behind the stage while levail throws some javelins on the sides of the stage. Next dheginsea would be all dragon and attack with his dragon breath (maybe Nasir and Gareth too?). Then would be sephiran, perhaps with more diverse light magic than lekain and hetzel. And lastly would be ashera.

Maybe there could be a gimmick where you can actually attack these bosses that are attacking you and if you hit them enough they fall over and disappear. Other than probably the black knight and ashera. That would make a really cool event, use Ike and defeat lekain, hetzel, levail, dheginsea, Nasir, Gareth, and sephiran in the tower of guidance.

I like to think that we will get a WiiU Fire Emblem stage based on one in development for the Wii U.

There isn't one that we know of, unless you are referring to the crossover with Atlus, but that would likely require atlus's permission, especially since the game is still way in development and likely won't come out til like 2015.

 

[N3ON]

I like to think that we will get a WiiU Fire Emblem stage based on one in development for the Wii U.

If we get a FE Wii U. It's entirely possible IS realizes that the last couple of console FEs haven't done as well as the portables (especially Awakening - proving the 3DS has quite an audience for FE), so they might stick to what will give them wider appeal. Unless we get a stage from SMTxFE...

 

[Noler_Mass]

A mainstream fire emblem game for the wii u would make me die of hype, especially if it was a fe4 remake. Not that I prefer remakes, but it's a lot easier to get hyped for remakes due to the characters and storyline already being unveiled. It would be my third most hyped game behind smash 4 and SMT x FE and just in front of pokemon x and y. Seriously so much good stuff going on in video games. Arkham origins will kick major butt too. If they announced that final fantasy tactics a3 was in production or naughty dog was making a jak and daxter that is more in the light of the first game, I would lose my god damn mind.

Marvel ultimate alliance 3 would be nice too. And I forgot about battlefront 3. So many good games coming out.... Oh and dark cloud 3 would be nice. IM GETTING SO UNBELIEVABLY OFF TOPIC.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Instead of typing out just who i'd like to see in smash 4, here's a video a made doing that for me

(you can ignore the shameless plug at the end, it is only if you're interested)

10. Thats what Sakurai doesn't want to do. Adding guests willy nilly. Plus Capcom has the best character to represent them in game. Mega Man.

9. Nothing much to say here.

8. Will probably be a regular trophy or an extra Assist Trophy. Also the same reason i told you for your number 10.

7. I know dem feels.

6. Competing with Snake dude.

5. lul.......

4. Those problems they're having might keep a Trainer from happening.

3. lul.......

2. lol.......

1. Sakurai might only choose characters who are legendary......Lloyd isn't in a good spot.

 

[FalKoopa]

If we get a FE Wii U. It's entirely possible IS realizes that the last couple of console FEs haven't done as well as the portables (especially Awakening - proving the 3DS has quite an audience for FE), so they might stick to what will give them wider appeal. Unless we get a stage from SMTxFE...

There isn't one that we know of, unless you are referring to the crossover with Atlus, but that would likely require atlus's permission, especially since the game is still way in development and likely won't come out til like 2015.

I know there isn't. But it's good for my imagination.