Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Zhadgon]

I would not mind Ganondorf using double swords with a heavy focus in dark magic, let´s say:

Keep the magical powers and dark manipulation to the specials (B, Up B, Down B, Side B) and his normal attacks with his two swords (A attacks, grabs, etc.) so it will be a a mix of both, oh and I want that his Final Smash transforms him in his Ganon Persona from Ocarina of Time (is the best Ganon for me).
.n_n.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

When does he use magic in his moveset? I mean actual magic, like where he casts darkness out of his hand or throws electricity at you?

He has explosions, electricity, and shadow/fire. Magic is magic. It doesn't matter at all whether or not it's projectile or travels a distance form your body. This is incredibly nitpicky!

 

[CalumG]

Ganondorf doesn't necessarily need extensive changing anyway - just further decloning. I envision him having his Warlock Punch replaced with a magic projectile (since it's incredibly inefficient to land a Warlock Punch on anybody who actually knows what they're doing anyway), his Up-B's animation to change so that he does his badass OoT hover thing (until he makes contact with somebody) and for maybe two of his Smash attacks and a couple of his tilts to have sword-based animations (even if the effect of the move stays relatively unchanged).

Some of his moves could do with further reach too. Characters like Lucas, Mewtwo and Lucario can use their magic/aura/energy/psi to 'extend' the reach of their physical attacks and I think it'd be pretty fitting if Ganondorf could do that for at least a few of his moves.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Changing Ganondorf's move set to projectiles is Melee's Mewtwo all over again. A really strong character that feels like a weakling.

 

[TumblrFamous]

He has explosions, electricity, and shadow/fire. Magic is magic. It doesn't matter at all whether or not it's projectile or travels a distance form your body. This is incredibly nitpicky!

Did you read the rest of my post? While it technically does incorporate magic, the fact still stands that all of his moves rely on his physical strength. Nothing else. There are just some darkness effects. This could be a crappy comparison, but Roy having a Fire Sword. He's still using a sword, right? There is nothing magical at all about it, because it's just a sword.

 

[Deleted member]

The look on his face said otherwise.

He needed Link alive to obtain his Triforce of Courage.
I mean literally after he punches Link in the face to weaken him enough to not be able to fight back, he says "Do not fear. I will not kill you. I merely have need of the power that dwells within you."

 

[CalumG]

Changing Ganondorf's move set to projectiles is Melee's Mewtwo all over again. A really strong character that feels like a weakling.

Ganondorf is already like that - technically powerful but in actuality one of the worst characters in the game as far as matchups go.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Changing Ganondorf's move set to projectiles is Melee's Mewtwo all over again. A really strong character that feels like a weakling.

Well actually, Mewtwo's strength wasn't raw power like Ganondorf. Then again, Mewtwo in Melee felt so gimped that he was one those characters that had more cons then pros, hence why he's not exactly a fan favorite in the context of competitive play.

 

[Jaedrik]

So much talk of Ganon... Any ideas for a new Up-B?

Like R.O.B.'s hover but at a much faster and more horizontal control, at the expense of less sustained time, because wizard. Speeding up his game is tantamount at this point if the engine doesn't allow it.
Or, Trident Dive, same jump move, but anyone caught will be shocked in place for a moment, the uppercut at the end has a visible effect to go along with the hitbox, which would still have dark properties, now!
On what I think is one of the coolest moves of Ganondorf: Up-Smash, the same hitbox can easily be used when extended with a trident or sword, an upward thrust at that sweet angle.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

The only magic he truly uses is in his Flame Choke and and his U-tilt.

Well, there are his other specials as well, but he needs something better than three of his specials that went unchanged in Brawl. He needs something more than just an aestheticly altered, and also slightly stronger version of Falcon Punch, and something better than a slightly altered version of Falcon Dive and Falcon Kick.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Did you read the rest of my post? While it technically does incorporate magic, the fact still stands that all of his moves rely on his physical strength. Nothing else. There are just some darkness effects. This could be a crappy comparison, but Roy having a Fire Sword. He's still using a sword, right? There is nothing magical at all about it, because it's just a sword.

Again, nitpicking. This is too minor a complaint to warrant the time to change because it still accurately represents Ganondorf's power. And I'm pretty sure electricity and explosions do more damage than most attacks in Smash Brothers.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Ganondorf is already like that - technically powerful but in actuality one of the worst characters in the game as far as matchups go.

Yeah, he's pretty much a weakling in Brawl. Like Groose in SS. He acts a big game, and he looks all big and badass, but he's really just a wimpy pushover.

 

[Deleted member]

Did you read the rest of my post? While it technically does incorporate magic, the fact still stands that all of his moves rely on his physical strength. Nothing else. There are just some darkness effects. This could be a crappy comparison, but Roy having a Fire Sword. He's still using a sword, right? There is nothing magical at all about it, because it's just a sword.

I think Ganon's Up Tilt counts. If not the explosion it causes, but the fact it sucks people in with wind magic.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

The only magic he truly uses is in his Flame Choke and and his U-tilt.

If I slammed my heel on the floor and it exploded I'd consider that magic. Same if I gave someone and electric hug that also exploded.

one of the worst characters in the game as far as matchups go.

Really? I kick ass with him in Melee.

 

[TumblrFamous]

I think Ganon's Up Tilt counts. If not the explosion it causes, but the fact it sucks people in with wind magic.

True, forgot about the one move that makes him unique. I love that move.

Whatever, I'm tired of talking about this topic, and I'm sorry for even bringing it up. Clearly my point is not getting across. I have school tomorrow, so I'm going in. Have an excellent night, I shall see you all in the very near future.

Really? I kick *** with him in Melee.

In Melee. He meant Brawl.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Really? I kick *** with him in Melee.

I think he meant Brawl.

He's indeed pathetic in that game, mainly because he's too sluggish to take advantage of his raw power. In Melee however, he's surprisingly effective.

 

[Deleted member]

The only magic he truly uses is in his Flame Choke and and his U-tilt.

Well, there are his other specials as well, but he needs something better than three of his specials that went unchanged in Brawl. He needs something more than just an aestheticly altered, and also slightly stronger version of Falcon Punch, and something better than a slightly altered version of Falcon Dive and Falcon Kick.

Dark Dive should count too.
Can't think of any explanation other than magic for shocking people and making them explode.

 

[CalumG]

If I slammed my heel on the floor and it exploded I'd consider that magic. Same if I gave someone and electric hug that also exploded.


Really? I kick *** with him in Melee.

Technically, Ganondorf is a steady middle ground in Melee.

Brawl however is a different story. Both tier lists and general fan consensus place him as not just one of the worst, but the absolute worst character in Brawl, as far as 1v1 fights are concerned.

 

[Morbi]

Dark Dive should count too.
Can't think of any explanation other than magic for shocking people and making them explode.

Perhaps he had joke buzzers on his hands that ignited dynamite when the electricity begins to materialize? No? Magic it is!

 

[SchAlternate]

Really? I kick *** with him in Melee.

He means in Brawl, you derp.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Perhaps he had joke buzzers on his hands that ignited dynamite when the electricity begins to materialize?

If that were the case then we might as well replace Ganondorf in Smash with the Joker.

I'm sorry, that's the best I got tonight...

 

[Deleted member]

Perhaps he had joke buzzers on his hands that ignited dynamite when the electricity begins to materialize? No? Magic it is!

Not magic. Magic *snort snort*

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

"In the last game, Ganondorf appeared with a stocky build, so he’s got a middle-aged guy’s body here too.

His techniques are rendered with his solidity in mind – they’re brimming with the refinement of middle age.

He runs while panting... "Uff uff uff!"

Sigh. I miss Melee Ganondorf.

----

 

[FlareHabanero]

Sigh. I miss Melee Ganondorf.

That's why Project M exists. If you loved his incarnation in Melee, then his Project M version will tickle your fancy.

 

[Jaedrik]

Projectile does not necessitate weak.
Think P:M Lucario Spirit Bomb.
Instead of Ganondorf's neutral B being the Warlock Punch, think of how much more badass and versatile an energy orb would be?
"He lifted his arm high in the sky, a blazing orb formed as his feet left the ground, he laughed cruelly and sent it crashing down into an advancing column, annihilating a great deal of the primids there."
Just as powerful, the start-up is equally as slow or slower, but it has greater reach, and far greater flexibility with where he tosses it. Most likely diagonally down. The orb would hitbox when above his head, though, a weak move that has a high minimum distance to the knockback (or alternatively, a hitbox like Pikachu's Down-Smash, or alternatively, a lot of damage, or alternatively etc.) and vertical trajectory to keep from being punished too hard from an aerial opponent.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Bit late replying to this, but I just sat here reading through a few pages...

Absolutely not! Ganondorf's character is a really strong evil wizard. Using a sword is just what he's more commonly seen using. They are arguing that he should use what he uses most and not what fits his actual character.

So your saying we should take away Link's utility belt and sword and make him fight by smashing pots and screaming, I mean, that does fit his character more than the tools he uses.

You're sitting here arguing with a few people and you're the only one saying Ganondorf is completely fine, while multiple others are saying otherwise. Clearly you're the one who's right.

 

[Gune]

So your saying we should take away Link's utility belt and sword and make him fight by smashing pots and screaming, I mean, that does fit his character more than the tools he uses.

Truth be told I wouldnt mind that.

 

[BKupa666]

IMO, give Ganondorf his energy tennis ball and the shockwave from OoT and he's perfectly fine. That said, I'm worried Sakurai will cling to Warlock Punch out of stupidly perceiving that there's some visceral joy from landing a KO with it (when the same joy exists with any strong, laggy attack). If Ganondorf has to stay a semi-clone, at the very least, I'd hope he more closely resembles his Melee incarnation, or, as the game itself allegedly is, "right in the middle" between his Melee and Brawl incarnations.

Anyways, according to some theorists, we're getting a Wonder Red reveal tonight because of it being the 101st pic of the day. Pfft...let's see how that goes.

 

[Zhadgon]

IMO, give Ganondorf his energy tennis ball and the shockwave from OoT and he's perfectly fine. That said, I'm worried Sakurai will cling to Warlock Punch out of stupidly perceiving that there's some visceral joy from landing a KO with it (when the same joy exists with any strong, laggy attack). If Ganondorf has to stay a semi-clone, at the very least, I'd hope he more closely resembles his Melee incarnation, or, as the game itself allegedly is, "right in the middle" between his Melee and Brawl incarnations.

Anyways, according to some theorists, we're getting a Wonder Red reveal tonight because of it being the 101st pic of the day. Pfft...let's see how that goes.

Really Wonder Red will be revealed with the 101 pic? Thats to farfetched even for, but who knows maybe Sakurai could troll us with that XD.
.n_n.

 

[BKupa666]

Really Wonder Red will be revealed with the 101 pic? Thats to farfetched even for, but who knows maybe Sakurai could troll us with that XD.
.n_n.

According to a comment with 50-some upvotes (?!?!) on r/smashbros, yes.

Speaking of Reddit, the Smash fans there are currently trying to get Sakurai to do an 'Ask Me Anything' session. Most people there are regarding it as a massive longshot, or are being pessimistic that most of the questions would end up being useless variations of the same few complaints. With that in mind, I propose that, if Sakurai actually gets wind of the request and accepts, we at SWF cooperatively develop a handful of well-thought-out questions in advance to help advance our speculation, and to drown out the "PLEASE SAKURAI" crowd. Heck, we could even toss out a few now, if anyone's willing. I, personally, want to ask Sakurai about "relevance" in the hopes of getting an answer that would silence its proponents, as well as ask him about balancing heavyweights (perhaps relating it to Bowser's two new moves).

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

Are we STILL on Ganondorf's moveset? Impressive.

 

[Zhadgon]

According to a comment with 50-some upvotes (?!?!) on r/smashbros, yes.

Speaking of Reddit, the Smash fans there are currently trying to get Sakurai to do an 'Ask Me Anything' session. Most people there are regarding it as a massive longshot, or are being pessimistic that most of the questions would end up being useless variations of the same few complaints. With that in mind, I propose that, if Sakurai actually gets wind of the request and accepts, we at SWF cooperatively develop a handful of well-thought-out questions in advance to help advance our speculation, and to drown out the "PLEASE SAKURAI" crowd. Heck, we could even toss out a few now, if anyone's willing. I, personally, want to ask Sakurai about "relevance" in the hopes of getting an answer that would silence its proponents, as well as ask him about balancing heavyweights (perhaps relating it to Bowser's two new moves).

Well for one I want to ask is there have been a patter between Mr. G&W and R.O.B. and could we see a similar character in that position in the new Smash and the other question would be, if he is thinking in changing some of the movesets for example of Luigi getting the Poltergust 3000 in his moveset or as Final Smash like he did with Pit and Bowser and quoting his phrase from the reveal of Peach of changing their old movesets.
.n_n.

 

[BKupa666]

Well for one I want to ask is there have been a patter between Mr. G&W and R.O.B. and could we see a similar character in that position in the new Smash and the other question would be, if he is thinking in changing some of the movesets for example of Luigi getting the Poltergust 3000 in his moveset or as Final Smash like he did with Pit and Bowser and quoting his phrase from the reveal of Peach of changing their old movesets.
.n_n.

Interesting. I guess the guidelines I would follow for making hypothetical questions would be to try and guess what sort of questions he would ignore or answer with a non-answer due to "not being able to talk about that," then avoid those. Second, I'd try and narrow down which remaining potential questions would prove the most valuable for our speculative purposes, cutting away some of the rot that festers around the forums while adding some spice with possible new information to discuss, and rally the community around them so that they'd rise to the top of the comment heap with more upvotes. A personal question thrown in here and there could prove beneficial as well, just to keep his attention.

 

[FlareHabanero]

The first question I'd ask is his stand on being relevant, really. Because one stigma that plagues speculation is what is the hottest new toy on the block and being the newest hot thing with the cool cats will guarantee a spot.

The second question would be his stance on content regarding to stuff partially owned by Nintendo (2nd party content), and question if he has a reluctance or challenge with implementation.

Thirdly, if he or other staff members browse sites like image boards and forums to get an idea of what people want, and opinions on how people are on Miiverse.

 

[Zhadgon]

Interesting. I guess the guidelines I would follow for making hypothetical questions would be to try and guess what sort of questions he would ignore or answer with a non-answer due to "not being able to talk about that," then avoid those. Second, I'd try and narrow down which remaining potential questions would prove the most valuable for our speculative purposes, cutting away some of the rot that festers around the forums while adding some spice with possible new information to discuss, and rally the community around them so that they'd rise to the top of the comment heap with more upvotes. A personal question thrown in here and there could prove beneficial as well, just to keep his attention.

Maybe a question about how has been working with Namco different to the previous Smash in the way of balance, time and workload?
.n_n.

 

[BluePikmin11]

IMO, Ganondorf doesn't really need moveset changes, unless he was given a very slow projectile, which he could really use.

 

[AEMehr]

People do want those characters to beactually playable. And there's more of those people than people who actually request them as costumes.

Have you ever asked anybody that?
I've been asking many people if they would rather have "Alternate versions of playable characters be playable" or "Completely new characters with the alternate versions of existing characters being alternate costumes".
Everybody I asked preferred having completely new characters. Whether we actually got the costumes or not.

You're making many claims without any evidence. Smash's user base is far beyond Smashboards, so don't use it as your only source.

Not to mention Pichu & Toon Zelda can't be costumes.

Mega Man X can't be a costume for Zero, but that still worked out in Marvel vs Capcom because they have the same build. So Pichu would still be an easy costume to make.

Not Toon Zelda on the other hand, but I never SAID Toon Zelda should be an alternate costume. So I fail to see your point there.

We are talking about DLC.

What makes that any different?
Characters would still need to go through the exact same criteria. It's not like characters are now suddenly plausible because it would be going DLC, it still goes into the main game.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

IMO, Ganondorf doesn't really need moveset changes, unless he was given a very slow projectile, which he could really use.

Why does it have to be very slow?
It could be a weak, fast projectile.

----

 

[Deleted member]

We've got so many weak, fast projectiles that we should get a strong, slow projectile to break the mold.

 

[BKupa666]

I'd enjoy seeing a chargeable projectile that increases in speed, rather than power, when you hold down the attack input. That way, just tapping the input creates something that essentially amounts to a moving trap, rather than a temporary bullet.