Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Johnknight1]

Bkupa666 is the best 129109391724784th Bkupa666.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

NEW TOPIC!!!!!

SO WHAT ABOUT THAT N64 LOGO I LOVE SO DEARLY!!!!

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

NEW TOPIC!!!!!

SO WHAT ABOUT THAT N64 LOGO I LOVE SO DEARLY!!!!

Not recent.

Wii U logo confirmed.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Bkupa666 is the best 129109391724784th Bkupa666.

Please step out of the vehicle, and walk in a straight line while touching your nose.

And with recency about n64 logo, ROB is not recent, nor is G&W, Pit at the time of Brawl, Mega Man, Ice Climbers, Ness, or Captain Falcon
In all seriousness, recency only plays a role in choosing Pokémon characters and Fire Emblem characters

Neeeeerrrrr!!!! Deeerrrbblllee Pppeeerrrrrsssttt.!

 

[FlareHabanero]

SO WHAT ABOUT THAT N64 LOGO I LOVE SO DEARLY!!!!

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If I can disagree, it must mean that there isn't anything proving it as true or false --> opinion

I'm implying that you can pretend something is true when it actually isn't. But, that doesn't make it opinion.

Because its roster is filled with unimportant characters, meaning that it isn't a reliable source for important characters.

Mario Kart is. But, not Mario Sports, at least not before important characters.

Depends how you interpret "co-starring"

I interpret it as it's actual definition, thank you.

What's even more ironic is that King K. Rool has appeared in quite a few Spin-Offs as well, but I don't recall ever trying to use them to prove his importance.

I would if I was defending King K. Rool.

Just because I didn't happen to mention Dixie's actual importance doesn't mean I don't think she has any. I was arguing why I thought King K. Rool was more important. Dixie is rather important, but I don't think her appearances outside of the Donkey Kong series compete with King K. Rool's recurring role as the main antagonist in the Donkey Kong games.

So does being a villain get you into Smash over others now?

Like being a footnote within her franchise for 18 years and the only two reasons people consider her likely having jack squat to do with her merit as a playable character?

So existing longer is better than appearing more?

Oh look, Saturn being Saturn.

Oh, look. Fanboys being fanboys.........oh, lord...

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

ROB is not recent, nor is G&W, Pit at the time of Brawl, Mega Man, Ice Climbers, Ness, or Captain Falcon
In all seriousness, recency only plays a role in choosing Pokémon characters and Fire Emblem characters.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Oh look, Saturn being Saturn.

Oh, look. Fanboys being fanboys.........oh, lord.

You're welcome to get the hell out if you can't stand nay-saying.

And if we really must count games with Dixie Kong, how about Mario Superstar Baseball? Noki, Pianta, Paragoomba, and Monty Mole are all real important, right?
Super Mario Sluggers? We couldn't live with Tiny Kong or baby everyone.

This isn't about what characters are important to the Mario game itself.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Oh wait, I remember you. You're that guy that treated me like a Goomba a couple hundred pages back because of my Final Fantasy Heroes Idea.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I think this is that time of the night when the intelligence dies out and the nay-sayers and fan boys get pissy. I think I'll come back later.

 

[BKupa666]

So existing longer is better than appearing more?

Being the main villain and a key character within the franchise for fourteen years is better than being a tritagonist and key character for two years, then getting replaced by her sister, before go karting and playing baseball for eighteen years? I think so.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

This isn't about what characters are important to the Mario game itself.

I wasn't making it about that at all. You were using "appearances in a spin-off" as reasoning for a character's significance. I was making the point that appearing in a spin-off really doesn't add much to a character, lest you imply that characters like Baby Peach and Dry Bones have more potential than, say, Paper Mario or King K. Rool, simply because they've made multiple spin-off appearances.

And was there a reason that was the only part of the post you responded to...?

I think this is that time of the night when the intelligence dies out and the nay-sayers and fan boys get pissy. I think I'll come back later.

I guess not. Debate club must be grueling for you at your school if what I'm saying really comes off as pissy. Sorry about that.

Oh wait, I remember you. You're that guy that treated me like a Goomba a couple hundred pages back because of my Final Fantasy Heroes Idea.

I didn't mean to make you feel like mush, but I'm not about to apologize for giving legitimate reasons for why a character or set of wouldn't work.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

N64 Logo....

 

[Lasifer]

N64 Logo....

Can you please stop?

 

[Hotfeet444]

Well with one major problem supposedly leaving, the topic should die down.

Anyways, for something new...since we'll most likely get a stage with our new Pokemon character, what are we expecting, Team Flare HQ? Dragonspiral Tower? Anyone think the reveal image will be on 3DS rather than being on the Wii U? (I don't care if we've done this before, it's a HELL of alot better than talking about something that's been done to death twice as hard.)

 

[Lasifer]

Well with one major problem supposedly leaving, the topic should die down.

Anyways, for something new...since we'll most likely get a stage with our new Pokemon character, what are we expecting, Team Flare HQ? Dragonspiral Tower? Anyone think the reveal image will be on 3DS rather than being on the Wii U? (I don't care if we've done this before, it's a HELL of alot better than talking about something that's been done to death twice as hard.)

Team Flare Secret HQ, maybe. Dragonspiral with Lucario reveal would be sweet.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Can you please stop?

I'm sure I can stop, but the question is may I.
Ok.
There's nothing good to talk about so I'm leaving.
Salutations!

 

[KingofPhantoms]

In all seriousness, recency only plays a role in choosing Pokémon characters and Fire Emblem characters

I'm not certain about Fire Emblem due to knowing practically nothing about it, but in the case of Pokemon recency plays a partail role in choosing Pokemon characters if a Pokemon gained a lot of popularity recently. Sakurai once said he chooses Pokemon by asking Pokemon's developers "what's hot" lately. Sure the Pokemon he chooses could've recently gained popularity, but a Pokemon character isn't likely solely because it made a very recent appearance.

 

[BKupa666]

I don't think I said anything on the subject earlier, but it makes a surprising amount of sense that the Pokemon Company is standing between Sakurai and a Pokemon reveal. If we're going to get a 3DS image reveal, I'd bank on it being next week due to there already being 2 3DS screenshots this week, but otherwise, it's clearly anyone's guess. Hopefully we get something tomorrow or Friday other than this dull cutesy crap we've been choking down for a little while.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Well with one major problem supposedly leaving, the topic should die down.

Anyways, for something new...since we'll most likely get a stage with our new Pokemon character, what are we expecting, Team Flare HQ? Dragonspiral Tower? Anyone think the reveal image will be on 3DS rather than being on the Wii U? (I don't care if we've done this before, it's a HELL of alot better than talking about something that's been done to death twice as hard.)

I wish I could remember what it was called. The big flower weapon thing in Geosenge Town. That seems like stage material this time around. To me, at least.

 

[Gune]

Parent teacher conference's suck what you guys yelling about.

 

[G0LD3N L0TUS]

I think this is that time of the night when the intelligence dies out and the nay-sayers and fan boys get pissy. I think I'll come back later.

I think this is the time of night where Saturn gets frustrated because we don't agree with him to the point where he leaves and tries to imply we're all idiots and he's the only one with a brain.

 

[Deleted member]

Takamaru, Mach Rider, the Balloon Fighter, Sukapon, Starman (from Pro Wrestling), Little Mac (well he's not exclusively retro), Wart, and Kamek IMO would all be great retro playable characters.

The others, I get (aside from Kamek; he's not exactly retro). But why do people bring up Star Man when Fighter Hayabusa was the "main" character of Pro Wrestling?
Is there something I don't know about in regards to him?

The underlined portion of that post IS the straw man fallacy. That is EXACTLY the one that I was referring to. Your intent is irrelevant, the satire is a straw man (which is why you removed it immediately). I highlighted the portion of your own argument that alludes to precisely what I was talking about. If you are implying that I initially posted to you... yes, yes I did. That is irrelevant because the argument STARTED when you said that there was no pattern. I should have said something along the lines of... a pattern can only be two things and ended it there. If you do not understand the notion of a pattern, forgive me for my elevated respect. I assumed you were able to discern enough to grasp at the core of my premise and not all of the random side stuff I was posting. It doesn't bother me if you throw ad hominem my way, it really doesn't. It does bother me that some people actually side with you because they are your friends. It is very simple to understand that the only point I was attempting to make, was that a PATTERN is a PATTERN.

No, it's there. It's ****ing been there since I edited it INTO the post. The post originally DID NOT HAVE IT.
And people siding with me has nothing to do with them being my friends. If they feel I'm spouting off nonsense, they won't hesitate to call me out on it, some with harsher remarks than others (such as Habanero and JohnKnight). If they're siding with me, it means they agree with what I'm saying.
As for that "only point I was trying to make", quit the bull****. The whole case has been an attempt to defend how the "retro" pattern is valid logic for this upcoming game thinly disguised as defending the concept of "patterns exist!".

You didn't "Kill" the two retros argument. In order to do so, you would have to somehow prove that 2 circumstantial events do not make a pattern, which is impossible. Patterns are innate once they are created, and they are inherently subjective. So instead you approached the argument by mocking me (which I didn't take personally, I honestly perceived it as more of a stab at anyone who thinks a pattern is there). This is a rational response, so I don't blame you. The only thing you could possibly do is conceive the idea that logic is omitted from my rationale. To be honest, I did the same once you said that there was no pattern. It was my mistake to try and convince you that there was a pattern (regardless of its relevance or meaning).

You didn't get why the "2 retros" argument was killed, and you still don't. It's killed because only one "retro" character was added in Melee, breaking the conceived "pattern". The Game & Watch franchise was too relevant at the time to have Mr. Game & Watch be counted as a "retro revival".

That is why I said there is no pattern. Because the "established" one doesn't exist.

It doesn't help that the "logic" behind the pattern is that "Sakurai added 2 retros in both Melee and Brawl, so we're likely going to get 2 retros in Smash 4 too!", logic you yourself spouted prior to my initial post on the matter.

It is also likely that we will get two... just like Melee, and just like Brawl.

Logic which makes the assumption that Sakurai added all those "retros" for the sake of being retro, so a "pattern" is made to show how it's "going to happen again".
Really, you scoff at my "mustache and swollen nose" satire pattern, but it's just as baseless as the 2 retro pattern logic yet more logical given that it's a "pattern" that spans through all 3 previous Smash titles as opposed to just the last two (and it's a pattern that actually exists since there really HAS been at least one character with a swollen nose and mustache added to each game; ).

Moral of the story; just because there's a "pattern" of coincidences (which there wasn't in this case) doesn't mean it's going to continue for the sake of continuing the pattern.

I reread your post to ensure I didn't miss anything. The reason I ignored your edit was because I already responded to your initial argument (which was instantly insufficient) because you added unnecessary "evidence" to support your perspective. There really was nothing to respond to. I actually agreed with you, so it would be hard to refute something that I inherently believe as an objective fact. I apologize for getting this to you so late. I was asleep.

You ignored my edit, yet you claim to agree with it. If that was the case, you wouldn't have continued the argument.
You also claim my argument was "instantly insufficient", yet the additional information was "unnecessary". So, my argument was "not enough", yet it "didn't need" the additional information. Contradictory much?

Edit: I also apologize for the double post. I assumed someone would respond in 15 minutes. Haha.

Oooh. You edited. Clearly you were removing logical fallacies!

 

[Hotfeet444]

I wish I could remember what it was called. The big flower weapon thing in Geosenge Town. That seems like stage material this time around. To me, at least.

It's basically called "The Great Weapon", it's part of Team Flare's secret HQ, although I'm not sure if you're requesting Geosenge Town itself or a possible multi-level stage featuring Xerneas and Yveltal as Stage Hazards.

PS: Lysandre is best Pokemon villain.

I think this is the time of night where Saturn gets frustrated because we don't agree with him to the point where he leaves and tries to imply we're all idiots and he's the only one with a brain.

The epitome of irony if you ask me.

No seriously, my last analogy "The ignorance to never want to be defeated will continue to drag things on and on" is so spot on it's almost scary...I'm good with analogies, I should've gone into college to be an author...oh well, too late for that now.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

You didn't get why the "2 retros" argument was killed, and you still don't. It's killed because only one "retro" character was added in Melee, breaking the conceived "pattern". The Game & Watch franchise was too relevant at the time to have Mr. Game & Watch be counted as a "retro revival".

No real stance on this myself, but how was it still relevant at the time? I'm pretty sure G&W's were discontinued somewhere in the early 90's. What made him relevant all the way in 2001?

 

[Lasifer]

It's basically called "The Great Weapon", it's part of Team Flare's secret HQ, although I'm not sure if you're requesting Geosenge Town itself or a possible multi-level stage featuring Xerneas and Yveltal as Stage Hazards.

PS: Lysandre is best Pokemon villain.

Lysandre was pretty bland, yo. Giovanni master race.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

No real stance on this myself, but how was it still relevant at the time? I'm pretty sure G&W's were discontinued somewhere in the early 90's. What made him relevant all the way in 2001?

There were the Game & Watch Gallery remakes that were released on seperate dates prior to Melee's release, but IIRC the old Game & Watch characters were replaced with Mario characters in at least a few of the remakes.

 

[FlareHabanero]

And people siding with me has nothing to do with them being my friends. If they feel I'm spouting off nonsense, they won't hesitate to call me out on it, some with harsher remarks than others (such as Habanero and JohnKnight). If they're siding with me, it means they agree with what I'm saying.

Yes, I would chew you out, but conversely if I agree on your points (which is the norm) I'll stick to you.

You have my respect, I'm not going to sugar coat it, but I'm not soft either.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

It's basically called "The Great Weapon", it's part of Team Flare's secret HQ, although I'm not sure if you're requesting Geosenge Town itself or a possible multi-level stage featuring Xerneas and Yveltal as Stage Hazards.

PS: Lysandre is best Pokemon villain.

Either is fine, I'd just like to see some flashy visuals involving a giant crystalline flower grow from the ground and wreck half an entire town.

And he was a good villain, but he was so open about everything. "Yes, I'm the leader of the organization you're trying to stop. You'll find the key to reaching our facility's most precious room somewhere on this floor. You're welcome to stop us. Here, let me step out of my way so you can snatch the very creature our multi-billion dollar operation entirely depends on." He was a little too hospitable to really seem threatening, to be honest.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Lysandre was pretty bland, yo. Giovanni master race.

Giovanni = Greedy mobster...that's it...

Lysandre = The only villain with a realistic outlook on the world, a successful career beyond being a villain team leader, knows the risks to be taken for his goals and goes through it regardless, actually DIES with his ambitions, staying hardened to the bitter end with no regrets for his own actions, goal is actually a reasonable goal only to be taken the wrong way by Lysandre's obsession.

Yeah, sure, I love Giovanni and Team Rocket as much as the next guy, but that's just being lost in the past.

Either is fine, I'd just like to see some flashy visuals involving a giant crystalline flower grow from the ground and wreck half an entire town.

And he was a good villain, but he was so open about everything. "Yes, I'm the leader of the organization you're trying to stop. You'll find the key to reaching our facility's most precious room somewhere on this floor. You're welcome to stop us. Here, let me step out of my way so you can snatch the very creature our multi-billion dollar operation entirely depends on." He was a little too hospitable to really seem threatening, to be honest.

I used to think the same about the last part, but then again, he wasn't really TRYING to be threatening, he was just wanting to do what he thought was necessary, he wasn't about making people fear him like that of Giovanni. And, when it came down to the final battle with him, to see how far he'd go to even KILL HIMSELF and many of his team members in the process. That stands out, X and Y are DARK games in both their own rights, especially with so much death going on.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

I wish I could remember what it was called. The big flower weapon thing in Geosenge Town. That seems like stage material this time around. To me, at least.

My idea would be a stage involving

Spoiler

the war 3,000 years ago and AZ using the ultimate weapon to destroy everything.

It'd be interesting, but we already have a KI:U stage featuring the war for the Wish Seed and the Reset Bomb, so...

Either is fine, I'd just like to see some flashy visuals involving a giant crystalline flower grow from the ground and wreck half an entire town.

And he was a good villain, but he was so open about everything. "Yes, I'm the leader of the organization you're trying to stop. You'll find the key to reaching our facility's most precious room somewhere on this floor. You're welcome to stop us. Here, let me step out of my way so you can snatch the very creature our multi-billion dollar operation entirely depends on." He was a little too hospitable to really seem threatening, to be honest.

Spoiler

He seemed sort of like a "well-intentioned extremist Nazi" kind of guy.

"I apologize to all of you who are not part of Team Flare, but I must destroy everything and wipe the slate clean so the world won't stagnate", or something like that.

As for the generic grunts, well, they're just selfish and silly.

So many rings, but nothing in between.

I laughed so hard at that, you don't even know.

...since when did the topic change to Pokemon villains?

-----

 

[LoneKonWolf]

gone for an hour to customize my avatar and i miss a bunch of insanity. . . . . . . sigh
so anyway, lets talk about zelda, do you think that any zelda newcomer has a chance, or are all of them now dead because of toon link reveal

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Eh, none of the possible Zelda newcomers seem very likely. I can see either Toon Zelda/Tetra or Tingle getting in, maybe Impa. I honestly don't think any Zelda newcomer is very likely at this point.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

My idea would be a stage involving

Spoiler

the war 3,000 years ago and AZ using the ultimate weapon to destroy everything.

It'd be interesting, but we already have a KI:U stage featuring the war for the Wish Seed and the Reset Bomb, so...

Spoiler

He seemed sort of like a "well-intentioned extremist Nazi" kind of guy.

"I apologize to all of you who are not part of Team Flare, but I must destroy everything and wipe the slate clean so the world won't stagnate", or something like that.

-----

That, and it's major story spoilers and a stage that wouldn't capture the spirit of Pokemon the slightest. Fighting in the middle of a war seems to be more of Fire Emblem's and Kid Icarus' thing.

I'm pretty sure all the Pokemon villains come off as that though, starting with Generation III.
"We must create more land mass so the living things have more room to live."
"We must create more sea so as to increase transportation and provide water to all."
"We must create a brand new galaxy, one that isn't full of the flaws of our own."
"We must create a world where Pokemon do not have to suffer through fighting for humans."

Flare is rather cookie-cutter, in that sense. They did seem more Nazi-like than the rest, however, considering how willing they are to kill for a master-race beautiful world.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

Eh, none of the possible Zelda newcomers seem very likely. I can see either Toon Zelda/Tetra or Tingle getting in, maybe Impa. I honestly don't think any Zelda newcomer is very likely at this point.

that was i think to, zelda is basically done with the triforce trio + younger link + shiek.
there just doesn't seem to be a point to add any one else as a payable character

 

[Arcanir]

It's basically called "The Great Weapon", it's part of Team Flare's secret HQ, although I'm not sure if you're requesting Geosenge Town itself or a possible multi-level stage featuring Xerneas and Yveltal as Stage Hazards.

PS: Lysandre is best Pokemon villain.

Eh, I personally felt he was underdeveloped (though easily the best of Team Flare). The potential was there, but they just don't tap it to the extent that they could such as how they don't explain how he reaches his conclusion nor flesh out his relationships with the other characters like Sycamore and the Team Flare scientists. On that note, Team Flare isn't that interesting collectively as a group and brought him down.

Giovanni = Greedy mobster...that's it...
I used to think the same about the last part, but then again, he wasn't really TRYING to be threatening, he was just wanting to do what he thought was necessary, he wasn't about making people fear him like that of Giovanni. And, when it came down to the final battle with him, to see how far he'd go to even KILL HIMSELF and many of his team members in the process. That stands out, X and Y are DARK games in both their own rights, especially with so much death going on.

Knowing GF they'll rewrite it so he survives the ordeal.

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Spoiler

is it safe to come back yet? are people done arguing? No.....?
.... welp cya guys tommorow

 

[Deleted member]

No real stance on this myself, but how was it still relevant at the time? I'm pretty sure G&W's were discontinued somewhere in the early 90's. What made him relevant all the way in 2001?

.....except 4. That came after Melee.
There were both the original versions of the G&W titles as well as "Modern" versions featuring Mario & Co. (4 even had Mr. Game & Watch himself be the ambassador of the "Classic" versions while Mario was the ambassador of the "Modern" versions.)

 

[Johnknight1]

Oh, look. Fanboys being fanboys.........oh, lord...

Oh look. People who assume things that aren't true assuming things that aren't true.

(now beat my negative joke with a negative joke, Golden Y style!!!)

Parent teacher conference's suck what you guys yelling about.

Why would you ever go to one=???

I mean seriously, if I was a teacher, I'd skip out, or teach like college instead!!!

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

.....except 4. That came after Melee.
There were both the original versions of the G&W titles as well as "Modern" versions featuring Mario & Co. (4 even had Mr. Game & Watch himself be the ambassador of the "Classic" versions while Mario was the ambassador of the "Modern" versions.)

Doesn't the fact that those games function as galleries and that there are modes that referring to Game & Watch as "classic" mean that, by definition, Game & Watch was still considered retro back then? The whole novelty of them was for allowing younger players to play the ever retro games, was it not? I think through that, Mr. Game & Watch would be considered retro for that reason.

Again, don't get me wrong, I'm not into the pattern bull**** either. I speak from common sense though when I say that Mr. Game & Watch was considered one of the "retro representatives" in Melee. If he wasn't made to capture that nostalgia value, I don't see why he was made into being a 2D entity with a severe lack of frames much like the classic 1980 games.