Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Mega Bidoof]

Pokemon used to be all about the single player back in my day, when there were 151 Pokemon and a 100 Pokemon expansion! Just kidding, I actually still view them as single player games with multiplayer elements. That might just be me though. They are certainly pushing accessibility and things of a similar nature, I just don't think that it changes the core mechanics in the game. Essentially it is how the user plays the game. So for me, I view it as single player because I don't play online too much. For somebody else, they might live for the online and struggle to get through the story.

Even in Red and Blue it was apparently about trading with the link cable.
But I view it as a SP game too.

 

[Johnknight1]

But they are both staples of the Smash Series.

But not of Nintnedo.

And Metroid is not the best Single Player.
Zelda, Mario Galaxy/Sunshine/64.

Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword felt stale, and Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 were a letdown. All of those games are linear and have minimal replay value IMO.

As for Sunshine and 64, I used the word "recent," but still, Metroid Prime 1 easily trumps both of those games (go back and play them and compare; Metroid Prime still feels fresh, while Sunshine's controls are a bit off and the level design isn't always right, and 64 just as a whole feels dated), and Super Metroid is better than anything Mario (maybe sans Mario 3) by a thousand miles.

As for Pokémon, few Pokémon home console games are worth mentioning. Just Pokémon Snap, Colosseum, and Puzzle League, and the latter two are multiplayer games, with Puzzle League being primarily viewed as a multiplayer game. I still bust out Snap and Puzzle League every once in a while though.

 

[Morbi]

Even in Red and Blue it was apparently about trading with the link cable.
But I view it as a SP game too.

The link cable... haha! That brings back so many memories. So many children bragging about having a level 100 Charizard.

On the topic: I really wouldn't mind if Charizard replaced Pokemon Trainer. Easier development time, and maybe he will actually be fun this time around. I am hoping his relevance in Origins and the ability to select him as a starter in X and Y will be enough. I do not want them wasting time attempting to make Pokemon Trainer work. It just isn't plausible, it doesn't feel right. He is one of the only characters that felt incomplete.

 

[AEMehr]

Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword felt stale, and Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 were a letdown. All of those games are linear and have minimal replay value IMO.

As for Sunshine and 64, I used the word "recent," but still, Metroid Prime 1 easily trumps both of those games (go back and play them and compare; Metroid Prime still feels fresh, while Sunshine's controls are a bit off and the level design isn't always right, and 64 just as a whole feels dated), and Super Metroid is better than anything Mario (maybe sans Mario 3) by a thousand miles.

As for Pokémon, few Pokémon home console games are worth mentioning.

 

[Johnknight1]

*snip*

Not really. I just found the Wii to be a very weak console in terms of quality 1st/2nd party titles (I would definitely rank the PS3 far ahead of it in that and nearly ever regard), and I am finding the Wii U's amazing potential to thus far (sans Tropical Freeze and Mario 3D World, sans them having no online multiplayer) to be the same case.

Of course, mods like Project M and the Galaxy 2 two-player mod definitely have given certain underwhelming games (IMO) more replay.

Also, most of my fun is on the PC these days anyways. Too busy with Fallout 3/New Vegas, Galactic Civilization II, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., X-COM, Batman: Arkham Aslyum/City, Crysis 1/2, World of Goo, Mega Man 9, etc., and especially Project M to not be having fun playing games and to not love games!

Also, Super Metroid is the opposite of "no fun." It might be "too much fun."

 

[Morbi]

Not really. I just found the Wii to be a very weak console in terms of quality 1st/2nd party titles (I would definitely rank the PS3 far ahead of it in that and nearly ever regard), and I am finding the Wii U's amazing potential to thus far (sans Tropical Freeze and Mario 3D World, sans them having no online multiplayer) to be the same case.

Of course, mods like Project M and the Galaxy 2 two-player mod definitely have given certain underwhelming games (IMO) more replay.

Also, most of my fun is on the PC these days anyways. Too busy with Fallout 3/New Vegas, Batman: Arkham Aslyum/City, Crysis 1/2, etc. to not be having fun!

Did you just say that the Wii U has amazing potential... ... ... ... really?

 

[Johnknight1]

Did you just say that the Wii U has amazing potential... ... ... ... really?

It's am amazingly built console. It's not a lot weaker than the PS3 and Xbox One, and it's drastically cheaper thanks to its' GPU.

Plus unlike the Wii U, it isn't just the previous console painted white, made flatter, and given motion controls (which were great I might add) and piss poor online.

It's literally a two generation jump from the Wii in terms of hardware and possibilities, has an online with the potential to be great, and that tablet has so much potential.

Now if Nintendo can get its' act together, make some great multiplayer games other than Smash and Mario Kart with online play and lots of replay value, the console could be amazing.

Plus, c'mon! IT HAS EARTHBOUND! THAT GAME'S WACKY GOOD JOLLY FUN!!!

 

[SchAlternate]

On top of that, F-Zero has been dead for almost a decade

DORMANT! The term is DORMANT!

Even though I don't care for another F-Zero character, but still!

 

[Deleted member]

Well I remember the latter point.

Ok.

I've played the best Mario and Dr. Mario of all-time several times with a few different characters.

Mario and Doc are two of my (rarely used) secondaries, and I understand how to use them quite well. The only character I'm better with is Fox.

Then how can you not tell the differences?
-Neutral attacks 1 to 3 are slower and more damaging.
-Side Tilt has more knockback but less damage.
-Up Tilt gives more damage and knockback, but has specific trajectories (opponents in front get sent forward, opponents above get sent upward). Mario's is better for setting up combos.
-Down Tilt sends foes behind him with slightly more damage. Mario's keeps foes in front of him.
-Dash attack lasts slightly longer and doesn't weaken, sends opponents in random trajectory. Mario's sends opponents diagonally behind him and weakens over time.
-Forward Smash has less range but no sourspot (so set damage). It does less damage than the sweetspot on Mario's while giving more knockback.
-Up Smash is slightly faster and more damaging than Mario's, but does less knockback on grounded foes (while more knockback on aerial foes). It also spikes grounded foes.
-Down Smash does the same damage on both hits and is slightly more damaging than the first hit of Mario's.
-Neutral Air is an inverted sex kick. It gets stronger the longer his leg is out. Mario's is a regular sex kick that gets weaker the longer his leg is out.
-Forward Air is NOT A METEOR SMASH. Mario's is. Also, it has a sourspot, unlike Mario's.
-Back Air is less damaging, has a semi-spike trajectory and presumably has higher knockback (Mario's knockback isn't recorded at this time).
-Up Air is less damaging and presumably has higher knockback (Like above, Mario's isn't recorded).
-Down Air has an extra hit and is slightly slower from what I remember (need to compare the two again).

Grabs and throws, I don't know what difference there is other than knockback, so I can't say anything there.
And Specials, those differences should be clear already.

As for other properties:
-Higher air speed
-Cannot wall jump
-Heavier (PAL only)

So I will repeat myself; the differences are difficult to spot (as compared to say, C. Falcon and Ganondorf), but they do exist.

On top of that, I know how to play every character fairly well. I am probably one of the few people that doesn't have a hard time wavedashing with Bowser, actually.

Good for you. Doesn't make you any less wrong.
Even the sage can play the fool.

Not really. I mean, if you don't play at a competitive level again top tier competition, you often don't understand the game quite as well, or understand just how good said character and player(s) are. With Pikachu, it is very clear to me that Axe is certainly very individualistic and talented, but Pikachu is definitely as good as they say.

After all, a team sports player can point out how good a player versus the talent of the team a lot better than the average fan.

And yet I seem to have a better grasp at the differences between Mario and Dr. Mario than you.
Seems rather sad if you ask me.

Ness can be easily killed once you get him off the stage and force him to use PK Thunder 2 to recover. Once you got him doing that, you can just poke him a bit farther away, and he dies. With Bowser, something similar (albeit to a lesser extent) is true, although it takes a lot more to poke him off the stage.

Well Ness and Bowser suck far more. If you do say 30% on Ness and get him off the stage at the top level of play, he's dead. With Bowser, you can combo him easily, avoid all of his attacks, and stop him from recovering due to his very linear and easy to predict recovery.

Knock Pichu off and force him to use Agility. Knock his ass again, perhaps even while he's using Agility. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

Pichu at least has an amazing recovery to kind of hide its' terrible lightweight nature.

Again, all of my what.

 

[AEMehr]

Not really. I just found the Wii to be a very weak console in terms of quality 1st/2nd party titles (I would definitely rank the PS3 far ahead of it in that and nearly ever regard), and I am finding the Wii U's amazing potential to thus far (sans Tropical Freeze and Mario 3D World, sans them having no online multiplayer) to be the same case.

Not really??? Your opinions are your opinions, they aren't facts. You may have been disappointed in those titles, but don't speak like you think everybody shared the same experience as you.
Also I GUESS an online multiplayer 3D World would be nice, but I don't really see the point of having it for Tropical Freeze. Just doesn't seem like a nice fit for online to me.

Of course, mods like Project M and the Galaxy 2 two-player mod definitely have given certain underwhelming games (IMO) more replay.

That's still just your opinion. I found plenty of replay value in both of those original games.

Also, most of my fun is on the PC these days anyways. Too busy with Fallout 3/New Vegas, Galactic Civilization II, S.T.A.L.K.E.R., X-COM, Batman: Arkham Aslyum/City, Crysis 1/2, World of Goo, Mega Man 9, etc., and especially Project M to not be having fun playing games and to not love games!

den go play ur pc lozer!11!1 nintendo master race lulz

Also, Super Metroid is the opposite of "no fun." It might be "too much fun."

I find your constant negative remarks towards pretty much everythign in general to be "No Fun", not your preference to Super Metroid. I see you constantly mentioning your distaste towards Brawl's cast, R.O.B. specficially because of how people who play as him and then you talk about why Sakurai should fix him or just scrap the character. You shouldn't hate on R.O.B. for being used as such, hate the player not the game yo.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Here's a subject that we haven't talked about in awhile. I do have to interject every once in awhile as thread owner

What do we think of Shulk's chances? Xenoblade isn't necessarily recent anymore, and with "X" on the way, will a character from that get in or will he still represent the series?

 

[FinalStarmen]

I wouldn't consider Tingle, (and too a extent Goroh) an unrealistic character.
I'd say Tingle is the most likely new Zelda character. Right next to Tetra, whom I support more.

Tingle's greatest obstacle is the severe hatred, or considerably vocal dislike (depending on your subjective interpretation), displayed by Western gamers towards the character - the negative reactions to his inclusion would be undesirably dreadful.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Here's a subject that we haven't talked about in awhile. I do have to interject every once in awhile as thread owner

What do we think of Shulk's chances? Xenoblade isn't necessarily recent anymore, and with "X" on the way, will a character from that get in or will he still represent?

They are pretty good, Sakurai should definitely acknowledge the series as great by adding a character like Shulk.

 

[Louie G.]

Here's a subject that we haven't talked about in awhile. I do have to interject every once in awhile as thread owner

What do we think of Shulk's chances? Xenoblade isn't necessarily recent anymore, and with "X" on the way, will a character from that get in or will he still represent?

I think that Shulk's chances are pretty darn high.
Xenoblade was quite recent around the time when Sakurai was deciding on the roster, so Shulk would have been a logical choice.
Also, Sakurai loves Xenoblade. I don't know if it matters, but it is very true.
Plus, Shulk represents the first game of a new IP that may or may not be expanding. In that case, Shulk can easily be the Marth of the Xenoblade characters.
And X isn't coming out until next year. The roster will almost definitely be finalized by then.
So Shulk's chances are relatively high. One of the more likely newcomers IMO.

 

[FinalStarmen]

Here's a subject that we haven't talked about in awhile. I do have to interject every once in awhile as thread owner

What do we think of Shulk's chances? Xenoblade isn't necessarily recent anymore, and with "X" on the way, will a character from that get in or will he still represent the series?

'Recency' shouldn't be the sole obstructive stumbling block within Shulk's potential pathway to inclusion (otherwise, why bother with Isaac). If anything, it all depends on whether or not Sakurai looks at Shulk as a viable character that fits within his criteria. Personally, I believe he does.

Concerning the upcoming X game, unless Sakurai has had early-on access to the game's developmental characters and story-line, I highly doubt there will even be much references to it, if at all, in Super Smash Brothers 4. Especially when the roster has been finalized previously beforehand, when Sakurai was already collecting suggestions from fans. X shouldn't affect Shulk's chances whatsoever, because Sakurai would have either included or ignored Shulk unto his finalized roster even before E3.

 

[Morbi]

I think that Shulk's chances are pretty darn high.
Xenoblade was quite recent around the time when Sakurai was deciding on the roster, so Shulk would have been a logical choice.
Also, Sakurai loves Xenoblade. I don't know if it matters, but it is very true.
Plus, Shulk represents the first game of a new IP that may or may not be expanding. In that case, Shulk can easily be the Marth of the Xenoblade characters.
And X isn't coming out until next year. The roster will almost definitely be finalized by then.
So Shulk's chances are relatively high. One of the more likely newcomers IMO.

I am going to need a source on that statement.

 

[Gune]

Legitimate question here why is shulk likely again?

 

[Louie G.]

I am going to need a source on that statement.

http://operationrainfall.com/sakurai-tweets-xenoblade-press-start/

 

[Morbi]

http://operationrainfall.com/sakurai-tweets-xenoblade-press-start/

That doesn't suffice as a legitimate source. The link didn't prove that Sakurai "loves" Xenoblade. It only illustrates that he acknowledged its existence. Is this why Shulk is on everyone's roster? I always wondered where people pulled that out of. Thanks for the incite.

Just wondering... if Sakurai tweeted about Zoroark, would everyone be speculating that he is in the game?

 

[AEMehr]

Also, Sakurai loves Xenoblade. I don't know if it matters, but it is very true.

Sakurai thinks Panel de Pon is a masterpiece, look at what that has done for Lip.

Sakurai can surely represent Xenoblade in other ways than a character. Assist Trophys, Items, Trophies, Stages, Stickers, and who knows what else.

(disclaimer i want shulk and lip in but im being realistic with this statement so ye)​

 

[Gingerbread Man]

Legitimate question here why is shulk likely again?

Main character of a popular first party game.

 

[BluePikmin11]

What would be your reaction if the Monado was confirmed an item?

 

[Gune]

Main character of a popular first party game.

Hmm...I'm not gonna count him out, but I think shulk needs a few more games under his belt before he gets into smash.

 

[Morbi]

What would be your reaction if the Monado was confirmed an item?

I would be fairly happy. It would hopefully allude to the notion that Shulk is a crazy speculators wet dream.

 

[Zhadgon]

But not of Nintnedo.

Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword felt stale, and Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 were a letdown. All of those games are linear and have minimal replay value IMO.

As for Sunshine and 64, I used the word "recent," but still, Metroid Prime 1 easily trumps both of those games (go back and play them and compare; Metroid Prime still feels fresh, while Sunshine's controls are a bit off and the level design isn't always right, and 64 just as a whole feels dated), and Super Metroid is better than anything Mario (maybe sans Mario 3) by a thousand miles.

As for Pokémon, few Pokémon home console games are worth mentioning. Just Pokémon Snap, Colosseum, and Puzzle League, and the latter two are multiplayer games, with Puzzle League being primarily viewed as a multiplayer game. I still bust out Snap and Puzzle League every once in a while though.

Sorry but Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 are amazing games, really great gameplay, physics, game mechanics, game design and the level design are terrific, I don´t know what are you smoking but those two games are something of best from the last generation counting Xbox360 and PS3.

And if you don´t think Mario 64 is a masterpiece of its time and still a great example of how a plataformer most do in a 3D environment then I don´t know what to say.

Still I know is your opinion but I can say you should try to read what you wrote especially when you say those games are stale, linear and have minimal replay value when most of those are still being played and are considered the base foundation of many modern games.

.n_n.

 

[Louie G.]

That doesn't suffice as a legitimate source. The link didn't prove that Sakurai "loves" Xenoblade. It only illustrates that he acknowledged its existence. Is this why Shulk is on everyone's roster? I always wondered where people pulled that out of. Thanks for the incite.

Just wondering... if Sakurai tweeted about Zoroark, would everyone be speculating that he is in the game?

I guess I was wrong, it never says he LOVES Xenoblade, but he definitely acknowledges its existence. I would be surprised not to see Xenoblade represented in Smash one way or another, being an important new Nintendo IP. Shulk is the best way to go for a character, and honestly that's what I think will happen.

Sakurai thinks Panel de Pon is a masterpiece, look at what that has done for Lip.

Sakurai can surely represent Xenoblade in other ways than a character. Assist Trophys, Items, Trophies, Stages, Stickers, and who knows what else.

(disclaimer i want shulk and lip in but im being realistic with this statement so ye)​

I guess you're right, but Panel de Pon is basically a "dead" franchise. Not getting much representation in Smash is understandable because he already had a classic character.
Xenoblade is brand-spanking new, and is turning in to something bigger. I mean, X is obviously Xenoblade.
I know my evidence isn't terrific, but I think Shulk has a lot going for him.
Also, I do believe that Smash 4 will focus a lot on introducing new franchises to Smash. Xenoblade is a great choice.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Hmm...I'm not gonna count him out, but I think shulk needs a few more games under his belt before he gets into smash.

Ice Climber.

 

[FlareHabanero]

What would be your reaction if the Monado was confirmed an item?

For starters that wouldn't make sense considering the weapon is incredibly unstable for a typical mortal; ask Dunban, his right arm became paralyzed and caused severe pain overall from utilizing it.

Second, having the Monado is kind of redundant when we have the Beam Sword already.

 

[Morbi]

Ice Climber.

I think the Ice Climbers were an exception based on the premise that Sakurai wanted a unique retro character. I am not advocating that a character NEEDS more than one game; however, I do believe that Ice Climbers suffice as an exception. They shouldn't necessarily set precedence.

 

[AEMehr]

I guess you're right, but Panel de Pon is basically a "dead" franchise. Not getting much representation in Smash is understandable because he already had a classic character.

That's arguable, Panel de Pon is a part of the Puzzle League franchise. It's latest release was in 2009.
So the franchise is much less dormant or uh, dead than say MOTHER and F-Zero. Lip just wasn't in those games (Her theme was, however).

Xenoblade is brand-spanking new, and is turning in to something bigger. I mean, X is obviously Xenoblade.
I know my evidence isn't terrific, but I think Shulk has a lot going for him.
Also, I do believe that Smash 4 will focus a lot on introducing new franchises to Smash. Xenoblade is a great choice.

I fully agree with you, I'm just saying that Sakurai being fond of a franchise doesn't help it in the long run.

 

[Gune]

Ice Climber.

Retro.

 

[Louie G.]

That's arguable, Panel de Pon is a part of the Puzzle League franchise. It's latest release was in 2009.
So the franchise is much less dormant or uh, dead than say MOTHER and F-Zero. Lip just wasn't in those games (Her theme was, however).
I fully agree with you, I'm just saying that Sakurai being fond of a franchise doesn't help it in the long run.

Sorry, I don't know too much about Puzzle League.
Lip would be great, but she falls a little flat compared to the likes of Takamaru.
For the record, everyone does. Takamaru is the obvious retro choice.

Edit: Thank you Ariand/AEM for my 1,000th like. I will repay you in some way.

 

[yoonb]

Just thought I would drop by in here to comment on this subject since Shulk is my most wanted newcomer.

I think Shulk's chances are most heavily impacted by one thing: "X." If X turns out to be a sequel to Xenoblade, then I would almost guarantee you that Shulk will appear in some form of the game. If X only turns out to be a spiritual successor or even an entirely new IP (which I doubt it is), then I wouldn't bet on it. Call me obsessive if you want, but I'm always thinking about how they could reveal Shulk, revealing the title name as Xenoblade Chronicles 2 or something along the lines of that during a Nintendo Direct. Then having Iwata come out and say "To celebrate the continuation of this franchise, we have a little video for you..." then Shulk comes out slashes the mother****ing crap out of everyone in gameplay.

Maybe this is just hopeful thinking, but I'm either going to turn out super dissapointed or super hyped. Shulk would definitely have me instabuy the game, but I don't think him not making the game would stop me from buying it. Mega Man was in the same position in Brawl.

EDIT: I also think Eryth Sea would have potential to be the most breathtaking stage in Smash. The visuals from the game are amazing, but I don't think stages necessarily boost a character's chances.

 

[BluePikmin11]

In my eyes, For the Frog The Bell Tolls deserves the revival more than The Mysterious Muramase Castle.
But I would be real ok if they both got in!

 

[Morbi]

Sorry, I don't know too much about Puzzle League.
Lip would be great, but she falls a little flat compared to the likes of Takamaru.
For the record, everyone does. Takamaru is the obvious retro choice.

Edit: Thank you Ariand/AEM for my 1,000th like. I will repay you in some way.

So I give you... maybe 200 plus likes and get nothing? Ariand/AEM gets a prize for nailing the right one?! Wow. PUFF!

 

[AEMehr]

Sorry, I don't know too much about Puzzle League.

No need to worry, I didn't even know that until 10 minutes ago!

Lip would be great, but she falls a little flat compared to the likes of Takamaru.
For the record, everyone does. Takamaru is the obvious retro choice.

Meh, that's what I think of Takamaru. I feel that while he has the whole samurai motif to make him unique and all, I still just find him bland when you compare him to Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, Pit, and R.O.B.. I mean you compare two people working together, a flat 2D fighter, an angel with a bow that forms into two blades (which was thanks to Sakurai but still), and a Robot (no Metroid isn't one!!!) to a Samurai. He seems kinda underwhelming. BUT That's just me. If he does make it in, I hope they spice him up a little bit like they did with Pit.

Edit: Thank you Ariand/AEM for my 1,000th like. I will repay you in some way.

I now fully expect something out of you gg
you have until my birthday sunday, good luck

 

[Bajef8]

I think the Ice Climbers were an exception based on the premise that Sakurai wanted a unique retro character. I am not advocating that a character NEEDS more than one game; however, I do believe that Ice Climbers suffice as an exception. They shouldn't necessarily set precedence.

Well I pose this question. Sakurai chose the Ice Climbers in Melee because he felt they brought a unique experience to Smash (dual characeters/hammer swingin mountain buds). Don't you think a bizarre, energy producing sword would warrant a unique character gameplay-wise?

 

[Louie G.]

In my eyes, For the Frog The Bell Tolls deserves the revival more than The Mysterious Muramase Castle.
But I would be real ok if they both got in!

Deserve is a strong word. Neither deserve the position more than the other.
For the Frog the Bell Tolls is a pretty obscure Game Boy title that few people have heard of. Not really sure about it's popularity, but I know it has music from the Zelda Oracle duo.
The Mysterious Murasame Castle is to Zelda as Kid Icarus is to Metroid. A sister series, as you will. It also is very popular in Japan. It also has a minigame in Nintendo Land.
So importance wise, it is likely TMMC. It'd be cool to have them both revived, but come on.
Takamaru is obviously higher priority.

So I give you... maybe 200 plus likes and get nothing? Ariand/AEM gets a prize for nailing the right one?! Wow. PUFF!

I fully believed it was going to be you.

 

[AEMehr]

So I give you... maybe 200 plus likes and get nothing? Ariand/AEM gets a prize for nailing the right one?! Wow. PUFF!

sometimes you just need to give a little less likes

 

[Morbi]

Well I pose this question. Sakurai chose the Ice Climbers in Melee because he felt they brought a unique experience to Smash (dual characeters/hammer swingin mountain buds). Don't you think a bizarre, energy producing sword would warrant a unique character gameplay-wise?

Yes, I also thought that the Poltergust 3000 would offer a unique experience. Perhaps giving Toon Link some different items? Maybe even giving Ganondorf a move-set that reflects what he does in game?

The main point I am trying to convey is that I do not trust Sora Ltd., it is truly a gamble. Sometimes they make characters that would seem boring play great. Other times, characters with so much "potential" are reduced to clones. Clones that they don't have to be.

Do I think it would be unique? If done correctly, yes.