Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

**** Toad.
Dr. Mario for the win.
@John

 

[Zhadgon]

Hell yeah I would want Crono playable in Smash 6, 7, or any number. He's amazing.

I don´t know how we can start this but my idea is once Sakurai finishes with Smash 4 and 5 and start working in a new project, we can recollect firms and start a huge campaign, once the new game is announced for the next generations we send the next day to the twitter of Sakurai, a letter to Nintendo NA, to Nintendo Kyoto and the Facebook and Twitter of both Nintendo NA and Kyoto the list of people supporting the inclusion of Crono, maybe even send a letter to Akira Toriyama and Square Enix with the support list to make a petition to Nintendo to lend the character to get his inclusion in Smash 6.
.n_n.

 

[Johnknight1]

**** Toad.
Dr. Mario for the win.
@John

But Toad h@h t3h t0@d5t0015!!!!

But seriously, he would have more unique statistics and physics and whatnot than freaking Doctor Mario in Melee had.

Personally, I just wish Mario's design was playstyle was exactly like Dr. Mario's (minus the pills, although if Mario's fireballs functioned at the same angles at the Dr. Mario pills, that would be dope), and that we got Toad as a Mario clone instead. That would have been a lot of more interesting, especially in tournament play, where Toad would have a lot of statistical and data differences from Mario and Luigi.

I mean, just given how Mario is (the exact same as Dr. Mario, but with less power and a way weaker forward air), nothing could be any worse per say.

 

[SchAlternate]

But Toad h@h t3h t0@d5t0015!!!!

And the Doc has t3h pi115
And Roy has t3h ph41r.
And Ganondorf has t3h d4rkn355.
And Pichu has t3h s3lf-d4m491n9 bull5h17.

 

[Deleted member]

Except that they aren't the same.
Otherwise, they'd be exactly the same on the tier list instead of Doc being like 5 spots ahead.

It's as Sakurai put it; while it may be hard to spot the contrasts, they do exist. Even more so in the PAL release, where they aren't the same exact weight.

And Toad as a Mario clone is even more lame of an idea.

 

[Pacack]

And the Doc has t3h pi115
And Roy has t3h ph41r.
And Ganondorf has t3h d4rkn355.
And Pichu has t3h s3lf-d4m491n9 bull5h17.

It's sad how easily I read that.

 

[Johnknight1]

I don´t know how we can start this but my idea is once Sakurai finishes with Smash 4 and 5 and start working in a new project, we can recollect firms and start a huge campaign, once the new game is announced for the next generations we send the next day to the twitter of Sakurai, a letter to Nintendo NA, to Nintendo Kyoto and the Facebook and Twitter of both Nintendo NA and Kyoto the list of people supporting the inclusion of Crono, maybe even send a letter to Akira Toriyama and Square Enix with the support list to make a petition to Nintendo to lend the character to get his inclusion in Smash 6.
.n_n.

So what you are suggesting is that we make Crono to Smash 6/7/whatever the equivalent of Geno for Brawl (but earlier)=???

I'm down for that.

We should totally just focus on spamming Nintendo and Square Enix though, and taking over the internet with our Chrono Trigger love.

Fun story: I forced my brother play Chrono Trigger like 5 years ago. Like he had no choice. He was so mad I made him do it. But after he got addicted to it and beat every ending at least twice, he asked me for more games, expecting games of the same caliber as Chrono Trigger. My response to him: "I can't suggest a better game than that one [Chrono Trigger], and if I can, it would be marginally better."

 

[Zhadgon]

So what you are suggesting is that we make Crono to Smash 6/7/whatever the equivalent of Geno for Brawl (but earlier)=???

I'm down for that.

We should totally just focus on spamming Nintendo and Square Enix though, and taking over the internet with our Chrono Trigger love.

Fun story: I forced my brother play Chrono Trigger like 5 years ago. Like he had no choice. He was so mad I made him do it. But after he got addicted to it and beat every ending at least twice, he asked me for more games, expecting games of the same caliber as Chrono Trigger. My response to him: "I can't suggest a better game than that one [Chrono Trigger], and if I can, it would be marginally better."

I don´t know how was the Geno support back on those days and if they manage to get to Sakurai directly (I know at least from the list of Brawl and reading the Journals from those days that the Japanese following was huge, but I think they were late at asking to add Geno especially with the inclusion of Sonic) so my thinking is asking sakurai really, really early even before the preproduction of Smash 6 to get him the list with fan support from the west and even if we can include a fan support from Europe, Australia and even Japanese fans we can hear us and start working in that moment the procedures to get Crono into Smash so at least it will give him the time to include him without wasting resources in vain and getting it at last minute).

Interesting story of your brother at least we have now three supporters.

I did play Chrono Trigger in emulator from a computer of my half brother, the sad thing is that I never finished the game because he moved to another city. :/
.n_n.

 

[Johnknight1]

Except that they aren't the same.
Otherwise, they'd be exactly the same on the tier list instead of Doc being like 5 spots ahead.

I think the tiers are way off on that. There's a minimal difference between the two, thus, Mario should be 1 spot below.

The problem with the tiers is no one plays Mario because Dr. Mario is statistically equal or better than Mario in every regard. It's the same reason why people play Pikachu over Pichu, and Marth over Roy, except much smaller and much smaller differences.

Of course, I also think Pichu should be higher on the list. In no way is Pichu weaker than Ness (no recovery) and Bowser (lol at that giant moving target).

And Toad as a Mario clone is even more lame of an idea.

What else would Toad be (in Melee), an original character=???

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Good point.
Rather than push it too far, I have done the opposite and push it too little.

I suppose to find the right balance, I should simply make a thread like I planned on....if I wasn't too damn lazy.

I'm on break at my college, so I can write a draft up for you in a PM if you can give me some counter-arguments. Though not actively, I too would like to see Rhythm Wrestler. I just need a little push...

 

[Johnknight1]

So that update...

...please don't mean this stage has an unnecessary stage hazard.

I really, really, really have taken a liking to it.

I don´t know how was the Geno support back on those days and if they manage to get to Sakurai directly (I know at least from the list of Brawl and reading the Journals from those days that the Japanese following was huge, but I think they were late at asking to add Geno especially with the inclusion of Sonic) so my thinking is asking sakurai really, really early even before the preproduction of Smash 6 to get him the list with fan support from the west and even if we can include a fan support from Europe, Australia and even Japanese fans we can hear us and start working in that moment the procedures to get Crono into Smash so at least it will give him the time to include him without wasting resources in vain and getting it at last minute).

Interesting story of your brother at least we have now three supporters.

I did play Chrono Trigger in emulator from a computer of my half brother, the sad thing is that I never finished the game because he moved to another city. :/
.n_n.

Yeah well the Geno support started because of Sakurai's journals, actually, and it REALLLLLLLLLLY started rather late (around the time I joined, in February of 2007). It was madness man, pure madness.

But yeah, getting that head start would be HUUUUUUGGGEEEE.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So that update...

...please don't mean this stage has an unnecessary stage hazard.

I really, really, really have taken a liking to it.

I doubt its a hazard.

I think it's just there for looks.

 

[Johnknight1]

I doubt its a hazard.

I think it's just there for looks.

I'm afraid it will function not as something that hurts you, but as like a moment where the plane might do like a barrel roll or spin of some sort.

Truth be told, it wouldn't be too terrible... so long as it does it once, and it doesn't last that long, although it would be a rather noticeable inconvenience.

But for reals, I hope you are right.

 

[Knight Dude]

Yeah, I doubt those things are going to be a major issue to deal with honestly.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah, I doubt those things are going to be a major issue to deal with honestly.

I remember when people said that about Mushroomy Kingdom being a sideways moving stage, Rumble Falls being a moving stage and having a "Speed up!" phase (just like Infinite Glacier, aka the obvious inspiration of said stage), The Bridge of Eldin having an exploding middle section and such a huge length, Norfair having random lava flares and explosions, PictoChat's hazards, and most of all, Lylat Cruise tilting and Pokémon Stadium 2's transformation.

Excuse me if because of that I'm a little hesitant. After all, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[Arcadenik]

I doubt its a hazard.

I think it's just there for looks.

It could be a stage hazard... maybe the plane does a barrel roll whenever it passes one of these rings... but hey, at least it won't be random since you saw it coming.

 

[AEMehr]

Closest thing to it be being a stage hazard is probably the players having to lead the plane into the rings by standing on the edge of the plane to guide it to the side. Of course that's just a guess, so I really doubt anything crazy will happen.

 

[Knight Dude]

I remember when people said that about Mushroomy Kingdom being a sideways moving stage, Rumble Falls being a moving stage and having a "Speed up!" phase (just like Infinite Glacier, aka the obvious inspiration of said stage), The Bridge of Eldin having an exploding middle section and such a huge length, Norfair having random lava flares and explosions, PictoChat's hazards, and most of all, Lylat Cruise tilting and Pokémon Stadium 2's transformation.

Excuse me if because of that I'm a little hesitant. After all, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Well, I suppose that its understandable. But I still kinda doubt a small ring of circles is going to be that that much of an issue. Lylat Cruise and Pokemon Stadium 2 didn't seem that bad to me either, though I still prefer the original version. Infinite Glacier(And Norfair)can be fun for less serious matches, but I get your point. I still hate Rumble Falls.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I remember when people said that about Mushroomy Kingdom being a sideways moving stage, Rumble Falls being a moving stage and having a "Speed up!" phase (just like Infinite Glacier, aka the obvious inspiration of said stage), The Bridge of Eldin having an exploding middle section and such a huge length, Norfair having random lava flares and explosions, PictoChat's hazards, and most of all, Lylat Cruise tilting and Pokémon Stadium 2's transformation.

Excuse me if because of that I'm a little hesitant. After all, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

I'm not sure if you're hoping for the plane stage to be competitively viable, in which case it was written off the moment we saw it was a tilting stage.

 

[BluePikmin11]

For a guy who has played Pilotwings Resort, no those rings are not a hazard, those are rings the plane flies through to get points.

 

[No Control]

You're acting like cutting a character = getting another character instead, which is not how it works.

Learn the rules of design and business, and then we'll care about your opinions.

Seriously, just look up the cost of keeping a customer in business versus losing them and getting a new customer. That's essentially what is the case with the smash bros. roster.

Keeping a customer is 6 times less time consuming, cheaper, and more efficient than losing said customer and getting a new one. It's likely the same with keeping veterans and keeping clones (hence why we got 5 additional clones in Melee instead of just merely extra content; that's right, 5 clones is easier to add than 1 additional new character).

Also, the fact you say Wolf, Toon Link, or Lucas don't add personality to the game, or that Chrom is better than Ike shows how much of a noob you are.

Please, wise up son.

I don't understand why your tone is so aggressive. As I said, it's my opinion, I'm not stating it as fact or publishing it in some kind of academic journal.

I don't think Chrom is "better" than Ike, I just see him getting in instead Ike this time around, in the same manner Ike got in and Roy didn't.

Also "the rules of design and business" clearly don't apply as rigidly as you suggest, else why would Mewtwo, Roy, Pichu and Dr. Mario have not made it into Brawl? The way you phrase that make it sound like cuts are an impossibility, when they clearly aren't.

And no, I don't think that Wolf or Lucas add any personality or extra dimension to the game whatsoever (Toon Link has a cool look, I'll give him that, but he is another version of the same character at the end of the day, so if cuts were needed, in my opinion he should've gone. But it's not me who's making the game, so I respect the developers' right to get rid of him. It's just my opinion at the end of the day, as much as yours is yours).

 

[Pazzo.]

Ok, I know I sound like a broken record... but with the addition of Majora's Mask into ALBW, do you think Skull Kid's chances have increased? Nintendo sure seems happy on teasing a MM remake....

 

[Metal Overlord]

there's almost no reason to even add Chrom lol

but John, you're starting to sound like Smashchu with all that design and business talk

just saying

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So still nothing all that exciting from the Dojo. Not even a new stage yet!

Something has to be coming. Whether a new stage or character. Something is coming. If it's a character, my bet is a Pokemon character still, and I'd personally like to see a Mario Galaxy stage (if there isn't one in the game i'm going to flip. Those games were amazing)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Hopefully we'll got someone revealed soon. Though I don't expect it.

I don't think Chrom is "better" than Ike, I just see him getting in instead Ike this time around, in the same manner Ike got in and Roy didn't.

That's assuming they would even prioritise Chrom over Ike, which is...very unlikely, considering that for one, Ike is way more important to Fire Emblem than Chrom. After all, Ike starred in two games whilst Chrom only starred in one.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

When it comes to Fire Emblem, I think we're going to see three this time: Marth, Ike and Chrom/Roy.

Personally I like Chrom, so i'd like to see him, but I'm not going to be upset if Roy gets in.

 

[Arcadenik]

So still nothing all that exciting from the Dojo. Not even a new stage yet!

Something has to be coming. Whether a new stage or character. Something is coming. If it's a character, my bet is a Pokemon character still, and I'd personally like to see a Mario Galaxy stage (if there isn't one in the game i'm going to flip. Those games were amazing)

I guess Sakurai doesn't need to show any more stages and characters for a whole month since Sonic apparently is enough to make people hype for SSB4.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I guess Sakurai doesn't need to show any more stages and characters for a whole month since Sonic apparently is enough to make people hype for SSB4.

Don't get me wrong. Sonic essentially made me **** myself. However, all that does is relieve people of the stress that he's not getting the boot. I still want to know about Snake or Ike. Or see Captain Falcon in HD. SOMETHING.

Having a character on the first of the month is just cruel if we're not going to be getting anybody else.

 

[Arcadenik]

Having a character on the first of the month is just cruel if we're not going to be getting anybody else.

Sakurai is renowned for his cruelty. You should know this already.

 

[Zhadgon]

Well maybe we can get in October 25 to 27 a character reveal for the end of "Nintendo Unleashed Tour" that would be in London in the Comic Con. It will have many Nintendo Games and the announced Nintendo 2DS so it seems it will be pretty big, maybe there Nintendo will have a Nintendo Direct or something. Still getting my expectations low.
.n_n.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Got a quick question for yall, which retro newcomer do you find the most unique?
I find Prince Sable the most unique retro, because he brings a reliance on transformations to win a battle.

 

[Pacack]

Got a quick question for yall, which retro newcomer do you find the most unique?
I find Prince Sable the most unique retro, because he brings a reliance on transformations to win a battle.

Unique? Probably Prince Sable.

Actually want and expect? Takamaru

 

[SchAlternate]

Got a quick question for yall, which retro newcomer do you find the most unique?
I find Prince Sable the most unique retro, because he brings a reliance on transformations to win a battle.

If you know me, you'd probably know my answer already.

LIP.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Lip is a good retro, I managed to play some Panel De Pon, it's pretty fun and addicting.
However, I think Prince Sable's series is the most deserving, and I can foresee a revival if Sakurai decides to add him.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Prince Sable, eh? If it means a series revival for him, I'm not against it. Same for Takamaru if he's getting a revival.

I can think of worse choices than those two for sure.

I'd prefer Duck Hunt Dog or Lip personally(in b4 someone counts Duck Hunt Dog as a worse character choice-I'm onto you guys.)

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I don't know much about Prince Sable, but I know enough to say he could probably be unique.

I'd prefer Bubbles from Clu Clu Land or Takamaru. The Duck Hunt Dog could work as well I guess.

to be honest I'm afraid where this retro discussion is eventually gonna go...

 

[YoshiandToad]

to be honest I'm afraid where this retro discussion is eventually gonna go...

That's because you're smart.

 

[Deleted member]

I think the tiers are way off on that. There's a minimal difference between the two, thus, Mario should be 1 spot below.

There's quite a difference. Clearly as someone who doesn't play as either character, you know nothing about them.
As one who has experience with both (Mario as a gateway character), I can't play one like the other without ****ing up.

The problem with the tiers is no one plays Mario because Dr. Mario is statistically equal or better than Mario in every regard. It's the same reason why people play Pikachu over Pichu, and Marth over Roy, except much smaller and much smaller differences.

There are aspects Mario is better than Doc at, the main one being recovery (Doctor Tornado requires more effort to use, Super Sheet is entirely useless outside reflection, Doc can't Wall Jump, etc.)
People need to get it out of their heads that Doc is just "better Mario"; both have their strengths and their weaknesses. It just so happens that Doc is more favorable in competitive settings.

Of course, I also think Pichu should be higher on the list. In no way is Pichu weaker than Ness (no recovery) and Bowser (lol at that giant moving target).

You do realize you're talking about the pathetically weak and light joke character that damages itself, right?
Right?

What else would Toad be (in Melee), an original character=???

No, the Toad's role as Peach's meat shield was perfect as is.
But in the event of the hypothetical that a Toad would be added as a character instead in that time, then yeah, original character would be a better idea than making him a Mario clone.

 

[Arcadenik]

Got a quick question for yall, which retro newcomer do you find the most unique?
I find Prince Sable the most unique retro, because he brings a reliance on transformations to win a battle.

I think Duck Hunt Dog could be pretty unique since his playstyle might be a mix of campy and patient styles. Duck Hunt Dog is obviously a hunting dog but what does hunting involve? A lot of patience and a lot of gunfire... so... I like to think that his moveset would involve ducks and clay pigeons (frisbees) getting shot at by the unseen hunter from the fourth wall (aka the person who is playing Duck Hunt).

Duck Hunt Dog makes a duck appear... the dog stays still, waiting for the hunter to shoot the duck just like hunting dogs do in real life... the duck flies around but you hold down the B button to get the Zapper ready while you move the control stick to make the duck fly closer to the opponent... release the B button to shoot down the duck... a gunfire explosion appears and the opponent gets hurt.

Duck Hunt Dog throws a clay pigeon (frisbee) straight forward or at an angle depending on how you push the control stick... the hunter automatically shoots the clay pigeon when it collides with the opponent.

 

[Gune]

Retro talk? Let's talk about Diskun!