Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Deleted member]

Most "unique" retro?

Mike Tyson.

"But he's just a boxer...how is he unique?"
Being Mike Tyson IS how he is unique!

 

[Arcadenik]

Retro talk? Let's talk about Diskun!

No, let's talk about Nintendo Logozord.

Spoiler

 

[Johnknight1]

I don't think Chrom is "better" than Ike, I just see him getting in instead Ike this time around, in the same manner Ike got in and Roy didn't.

The difference was Roy was a clone that was one of the least liked newcomers, whereas Ike is one of the most well liked newcomers and is totally original.

On top of that, Ike is a much more important character (staring in two games > staring in one). The only reason you picked Chrom over him was "muh relevuncy," which in and of itself is wrongly used and applied (it should be seen as relevant = being a key character to a franchise, instead of relevant = being recent).

Also "the rules of design and business" clearly don't apply as rigidly as you suggest, else why would Mewtwo, Roy, Pichu and Dr. Mario have not made it into Brawl? The way you phrase that make it sound like cuts are an impossibility, when they clearly aren't.

None of them were planned for Brawl, maybe barring Mewtwo and Roy when Sonic got in during 2007 (whereas the rest of the roster was decided in 2005, according to Sakurai).

Also, because the SSE took up over 60% of the development time (time well wasted!), and because quite frankly, few people really cared if Dr. Mario or Pichu returned.

And no, I don't think that Wolf or Lucas add any personality or extra dimension to the game whatsoever (Toon Link has a cool look, I'll give him that, but he is another version of the same character at the end of the day, so if cuts were needed, in my opinion he should've gone. But it's not me who's making the game, so I respect the developers' right to get rid of him. It's just my opinion at the end of the day, as much as yours is yours).

You have a right to your opinion, but your opinion is based on a lot of fallacies.

Wolf and Lucas add tons of unique things to the game. For starters, they have very unique playstyles in Brawl. Second off, they are very unique in how their moves work and operate. Lastly, they were a heck of a lot better designed in Brawl than a lot of characters already confirmed were in previous smash games, such as Bowser (he's been terribly designed in Melee and Brawl), Link (so awful in Brawl), Pit (possibly the worst moveset design in the history of smash), and Sonic (so much unused potential in Brawl).

On top of that, Wolf and Lucas have off the charts potential for greatness on top of their already unique skillsets and playstyles, and so many unused potential moves. Oh, and they're both about 2 move changes away from being about as different from Fox/Falco and Ness to be about as much of a clone as Kirby is to Mario (true facts: they still share 3 very similar aerials and a very similar up smash).

Heck, half the roster in Smash 64 could be considered clones if Lucas and Wolf are clones!

 

[Deleted member]

None of them were planned for Brawl, maybe barring Mewtwo and Roy when Sonic got in during 2007 (whereas the rest of the roster was decided in 2005, according to Sakurai).

Credibility lost.
Every one of the cut "Forbidden 7" were planned. That's why they have data in the game!

Being cut later in development =/= not planned.

 

[Johnknight1]

Credibility lost.
Every one of the cut "Forbidden 7" were planned. That's why they have data in the game!

Not really. They were planned or tested at some point, but the final roster (sans Sonic) according to Sakurai was completed by 2005.

Also, last I checked, you said "Prai_Mai" was a random button instead of Plusle and Minun, and yet here you are saying it isn't that.

There's quite a difference. Clearly as someone who doesn't play as either character, you know nothing about them.
As one who has experience with both (Mario as a gateway character), I can't play one like the other without ****ing up.

Umm... no. I probably know more about the Mario match up with you, because I have faced the best Mario and Doc player (Shroomed) and I have seen him play hundreds of matches live with Doc and a few dozen matches with Mario, and there is almost no difference, sans Doc having an easier time killing thanks to his slightly better power, his improved forward smash, and vastly superior forward air.

Also, how many good competitive Mario players do you know=???

You do realize you're talking about the pathetically weak and light joke character that damages itself, right?
Right?

Well we're comparing Pichu, a self-damaging character, to a giant moving combo machine in Bowser with no real reliable offense that does much damage and a character who can't recover worth a crap, is easier than most characters to juggle, and moves around very slowly (for his weight class) in Ness.

Given that Pichu is able to do all of the same combos as Pikachu (if not a little better), it automatically has better offense than Bowser by far and Ness by a fair bit. Add in the superior speed, recovery, and movement, and I don't see how it being so easy to kill would make it worse than Bowser or Ness. Being killed early isn't as bad as being a giant sandbag to juggle or not being able to recover worth a crap.

Really, if Axe played Pichu as well as Pikachu, Pichu would definitely be ranked above those two. The same flies true with Shroomed still playing Mario.

No, the Toad's role as Peach's meat shield was perfect as is.
But in the event of the hypothetical that a Toad would be added as a character instead in that time, then yeah, original character would be a better idea than making him a Mario clone.

Original character Toad over an original character we got in Melee=??? Who'd he replace, Mewtwo=???

 

[Bowserlick]

You two aren't getting anywhere. Just a pissing match between you two, even if Golden's piss makes more logical sense.

 

[Johnknight1]

You two aren't getting anywhere. Just a pissing match between you two, even if Golden's piss makes more logical sense.

What part of it makes more sense=???

The part about competitive play, or the part about characters=???

Because quite frankly I don't care if I'm right on the latter, but I know I'm right on the former, given my experiences with all those match ups.

there's almost no reason to even add Chrom lol

but John, you're starting to sound like Smashchu with all that design and business talk

just saying

The difference is I am using them for comparisons, and I'm using basic principles, instead of saying "this is the only way."

 

[SureNsync]

The Duck Hunt Dog could work as well I guess.

Oh god, No. I mean no disrespect to Arcadenik but The Duck Hunt Dog would be a very boring character in my opinion. Not to mention it has a careless creepy laugh.

 

[Johnknight1]

Most "unique" retro?

Mike Tyson.

"But he's just a boxer...how is he unique?"
Being Mike Tyson IS how he is unique!

Honestly, Mike Tyson is a more interesting playable character prospect than most of the crappy suggestions we've gotten back here.

At least he'd be a great knockout artist in Smash Bros.

 

[Arcadenik]

Honestly, Mike Tyson is a more interesting playable character prospect than most of the crappy suggestions we've gotten back here.

At least he'd be a great knockout artist in Smash Bros.

Mike Tyson would be a clone of Wario because Wario already bites his opponent.

 

[Johnknight1]

Mike Tyson would be a clone of Wario because Wario already bites his opponent.

But Wario doesn't threaten to eat people's babies... so does that mean Mike Tyson would need a "eat babies" attack=???

Seriously speaking, (terrible) trash talking should be one of his special attacks. It'd be too legit to quit.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Not really. They were planned or tested at some point, but the final roster (sans Sonic) according to Sakurai was completed by 2005.

Actually, Sakurai stated it was finished sometime in 2006, but even then they probably worked out from a priority list like they presumably do with this game.

 

[Johnknight1]

Actually, Sakurai stated it was finished sometime in 2006, but even then they probably worked out from a priority list like they presumably do with this game.

Oh okay, so I was off by a year.

Thanks for the correction.

My theory on the whole thing is that Roy and Mewtwo were definitely planned earlier (well, at least Mewtwo), but Sakurai and co. decided to "replace them" with some extra SSE stuff (lots of scenes and stuff we got plus some of the stuff we didn't get, like the King Dedede being involved in Meta Knight's ship being stolen and whatnot), but some of that was "replaced" by Sonic.

Truly, if my theory was correct, if Sonic wasn't playable, something tells me the sales of Brawl would have been about 1 million copies less.

Quite frankly the hype for Sonic and the awareness and marketing it created for Brawl was like nothing of this word guys. The people who weren't here don't understand the magnitude of just how big it, or that no new playable character will ever be even 1/1,000th as big as that whole Sonic dealio was.

 

[Knowwuh]

Got a quick question for yall, which retro newcomer do you find the most unique?
I find Prince Sable the most unique retro, because he brings a reliance on transformations to win a battle.

I don't know much about Prince Sable, but I know enough to say he could probably be unique.

I'd prefer Bubbles from Clu Clu Land or Takamaru. The Duck Hunt Dog could work as well I guess.

to be honest I'm afraid where this retro discussion is eventually gonna go...

These would all be pretty rad, unique retro character additions. Does anyone think a retro character's relationship to previous Smash titles has any bearing on whether or not they get chosen as playable characters in future installments? Could their inclusion as a sticker, trophy, etc. indicate that Sakurai has at least toyed with the idea of making them playable? I don't know if Sakurai has ever addresssed this in an interview or anything. Just curious…
Takamaru: sticker (Brawl)
Bubbles: trophy (Melee)
Balloon Fighter: music + trophy (Melee) + stickers (Brawl)
Lip: item + sticker (Brawl)
Little Mac: Assist Trophy (Brawl)
Diskun: trophy (Melee)
Dunk Hunt: trophy (Melee)
Prince of Sable: sticker (Brawl)
Advance Wars: Assist Trophy (Brawl)
Stanley: trophy (Melee)
Tamagon: trophy (Melee) + sticker (Brawl)
Mach Rider: trophy (Melee) + sticker (Brawl)

 

[Kapus]

Got a quick question for yall, which retro newcomer do you find the most unique?

I am most interested in Lip and Prince Sable.

Does anyone think a retro character's relationship to previous Smash titles has any bearing on whether or not they get chosen as playable characters in future installments?

It's possible. Pit did appear as a trophy in Melee before showing up as playable in Brawl.

 

[BluePikmin11]

It's really good that he mentions Prince Sable as a sticker, would've been nice to have him as a trophy in Brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

Not really. They were planned or tested at some point, but the final roster (sans Sonic) according to Sakurai was completed by 2005.

Also, last I checked, you said "Prai_Mai" was a random button instead of Plusle and Minun, and yet here you are saying it isn't that.

No, he said the roster was finalized. Meaning, the character decisions were made by then, not the characters themselves.
A roster being finalized however, doesn't mean that characters can't be taken out if they cannot be finished in a reasonable time or if complications come up. What it means is that no character that was initially unplanned for would be added (with Sonic noted as the exception).
One such example of a complication is Dixie Kong, who was initially planned as a tag partner to Diddy Kong. When that couldn't work out, she was then scrapped from that idea and put into the pile of "low priority" characters; characters that could be left unfinished if time would not allow for everyone alongside Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario, Toon Link, Toon Zelda/Sheik, and Wolf. Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf were merely the ones that didn't have to be left unfinished.

The first interesting tidbit he dropped during his talk was that the final character roster was essentially completed when the design document was finalized on July 7, 2005. That was, the character list was done 2½ years before the game was completed. Sakurai said the reasoning behind this was that he knew making additions later during development would be very difficult.

To prevent this master plan from becoming a problem in the long run, Sakurai's design was constructed with the goal of trying to include as much of it as possible within the allotted time. In that way, late cuts could be made without sacrificing the production schedule. The only exception to this plan was the late addition of Sonic. He was not added into the game until some time last year, though Sakurai didn't elaborate on how they incorporated him into the game relatively quickly.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/15390

Also, you checked wrong; I've been saying that it's NOT the random box. I mean, I made this post on the "A Theory Regarding Pra_Mai" thread just two days ago!

"pra_mai" cannot mean "every player".
While it is true that "mai" can be translated to "each" or "every" like in words like "mainichi" (every day), "pra" can not be translated to "player".
Closest thing to "pra" that can be "player" is "pureiyaa", which if abbreviated at all would be "prei", not "pra".
Whoever first came up with that translation is a moron.

I've also been arguing that it's not Plusle and Minun either, though I don't feel like digging up another old post of mine.

Umm... no. I probably know more about the Mario match up with you, because I have faced the best Mario and Doc player (Shroomed) and I have seen him play hundreds of matches live with Doc and a few dozen matches with Mario, and there is almost no difference, sans Doc having an easier time killing thanks to his slightly better power, his improved forward smash, and vastly superior forward air.

"Probably". You don't really know ****.
All you can claim is "oh, I've seen a pro player play as both". I've PLAYED as both. There's a lot of differences that ignorant people that just go by what they see (such as you) don't understand.
Especially when you claim his FSmash is improved, when it's only "stronger". It has worse range than Mario's, which is already rather poor range.

Also, how many good competitive Mario players do you know=???

Irrelevant to the argument.

Well we're comparing Pichu, a self-damaging character, to a giant moving combo machine in Bowser with no real reliable offense that does much damage and a character who can't recover worth a crap, is easier than most characters to juggle, and moves around very slowly (for his weight class) in Ness.

Given that Pichu is able to do all of the same combos as Pikachu (if not a little better), it automatically has better offense than Bowser by far and Ness by a fair bit. Add in the superior speed, recovery, and movement, and I don't see how it being so easy to kill would make it worse than Bowser or Ness. Being killed early isn't as bad as being a giant sandbag to juggle or not being able to recover worth a crap.[/quote]
Superior recovery?
All of my what.

Aside from that, Pichu has pitiful range, poor defensive play, and is easily combo'd and chain thrown.
Sure, Pichu has some combo game, but overall, it just plain sucks.

Really, if Axe played Pichu as well as Pikachu, Pichu would definitely be ranked above those two. The same flies true with Shroomed still playing Mario.

Lol.

Original character Toad over an original character we got in Melee=??? Who'd he replace, Mewtwo=???

Way to miss the point.
I'm saying that clone Toad is a horrible idea, and that if he WAS to be a character in Melee, being original would be a less horrible alternative.
I am not saying that Original Toad should be over Original Someone Else. I'm saying Meat Shield Toad is better than Clone Toad.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Oh okay, so I was off by a year.

Thanks for the correction.

My theory on the whole thing is that Roy and Mewtwo were definitely planned earlier (well, at least Mewtwo), but Sakurai and co. decided to "replace them" with some extra SSE stuff (lots of scenes and stuff we got plus some of the stuff we didn't get, like the King Dedede being involved in Meta Knight's ship being stolen and whatnot), but some of that was "replaced" by Sonic.

Truly, if my theory was correct, if Sonic wasn't playable, something tells me the sales of Brawl would have been about 1 million copies less.

Quite frankly the hype for Sonic and the awareness and marketing it created for Brawl was like nothing of this word guys. The people who weren't here don't understand the magnitude of just how big it, or that no new playable character will ever be even 1/1,000th as big as that whole Sonic dealio was.

Yeah, Sonic's reveal for SSB4 made me go back to the Brawl site and watch the old reveal video, and remembering how much the internet exploded. Back then I hated Sonic, so I personally wasn't too thrilled that there was no escaping the hype, but right now I'm very glad he made it in. No character ever matched Sonic's hype, and no character is ever going to do it again, which is fair enough considering that Sonic is not only a gaming icon, something only a few video game characters can claim, but a video game icon who has had a lot of history with Nintendo too, even if not in a positive way until later years.

SSE took a lot of resources and a lot of focus away from the multiplayer development I'm sure, just look at how much disc space it takes up. I'm so thrilled we aren't getting something like that again, I'm absolutely sure that we could have gotten the likes of Mewtwo if there wasn't such a strict deadline on character creation just to make SSE possible.

 

[Johnknight1]

Also, you checked wrong; I've been saying that it's NOT the random box. I mean, I made this post on the "A Theory Regarding Pra_Mai" thread just two days ago!

I've also been arguing that it's not Plusle and Minun either, though I don't feel like digging up another old post of mine.

Well I remember the latter point.

"Probably". You don't really know ****.
All you can claim is "oh, I've seen a pro player play as both".

I've played the best Mario and Dr. Mario of all-time several times with a few different characters.

I've PLAYED as both.

Mario and Doc are two of my (rarely used) secondaries, and I understand how to use them quite well. The only character I'm better with is Fox.

On top of that, I know how to play every character fairly well. I am probably one of the few people that doesn't have a hard time wavedashing with Bowser, actually.

Irrelevant to the argument.

Not really. I mean, if you don't play at a competitive level again top tier competition, you often don't understand the game quite as well, or understand just how good said character and player(s) are. With Pikachu, it is very clear to me that Axe is certainly very individualistic and talented, but Pikachu is definitely as good as they say.

After all, a team sports player can point out how good a player versus the talent of the team a lot better than the average fan.

Well we're comparing Pichu, a self-damaging character, to a giant moving combo machine in Bowser with no real reliable offense that does much damage and a character who can't recover worth a crap, is easier than most characters to juggle, and moves around very slowly (for his weight class) in Ness.

Given that Pichu is able to do all of the same combos as Pikachu (if not a little better), it automatically has better offense than Bowser by far and Ness by a fair bit. Add in the superior speed, recovery, and movement, and I don't see how it being so easy to kill would make it worse than Bowser or Ness. Being killed early isn't as bad as being a giant sandbag to juggle or not being able to recover worth a crap.

Ness can be easily killed once you get him off the stage and force him to use PK Thunder 2 to recover. Once you got him doing that, you can just poke him a bit farther away, and he dies. With Bowser, something similar (albeit to a lesser extent) is true, although it takes a lot more to poke him off the stage.

Aside from that, Pichu has pitiful range, poor defensive play, and is easily combo'd and chain thrown.
Sure, Pichu has some combo game, but overall, it just plain sucks.

Well Ness and Bowser suck far more. If you do say 30% on Ness and get him off the stage at the top level of play, he's dead. With Bowser, you can combo him easily, avoid all of his attacks, and stop him from recovering due to his very linear and easy to predict recovery.

Pichu at least has an amazing recovery to kind of hide its' terrible lightweight nature.

 

[Knight Dude]

If I had to go with a Retro character I'm thinking Mach Rider would be a good choice. Though Sable and Lip wouldn't be too bad either.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If I had to go with a Retro character I'm thinking Mach Rider would be a good choice. Though Sable and Lip wouldn't be too bad either.

We sorta have a similar Mach Rider already, Captain Falcon.
I don't think there's a real need for Mach Rider, unless there's a revival coming up.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Have we really been talking about Retro Characters all night?
Meh whatever, Takamaru is practically given consider him being the next series to come back (I'm guessing with Nintendo Land).

Blah blah blah 1,100 pages.

N64 FOR THE WIN!!

 

[BluePikmin11]

Have we really been talking about Retro Characters all night?
Meh whatever, Takamaru is practically given consider him being the next series to come back (I'm guessing with Nintendo Land).

Blah blah blah 1,100 pages.

N64 FOR THE WIN!!

Then it should apply to Balloon Fighter also..

 

[Morbi]

Then it should apply to Balloon Fighter also..

Villager confirmed to have a sword... and a pony tail?!

I am only kidding, I have to remain consistent. If I do not believe that Toad is out simply based on the irrational perspective that a move owned by an entirely different character "de-confirms" said character, I have to illustrate that correlation with Balloon Fighter/Villager as well.

 

[Johnknight1]

SSE took a lot of resources and a lot of focus away from the multiplayer development I'm sure, just look at how much disc space it takes up. I'm so thrilled we aren't getting something like that again, I'm absolutely sure that we could have gotten the likes of Mewtwo if there wasn't such a strict deadline on character creation just to make SSE possible.

I think the SSE took up more memory than everything but the music.

It's crazy how as the gaming world got so multiplayer focused in 2007 (which would help Brawl's sales a lot) the SSE single-player was like the hugest selling point other than the standard multiplayer. They' should have advertise the online play more than anything. Maybe they knew Brawl's online would be awful!

Hopefully they put all that SSE time they had in Brawl into making these 2 Smash games unique from one another, adding a lot of characters and balancing them, and making an online game that is a high quality one (like Soul Calibur V, which was made by the bulk of the Smash Bros. 4 development team).

The lack of an Adventure Mode being such a focus is part of the reason I'm hopeful for a big 51 character roster, actually. That and all of the 39 Brawl playable characters and a few of the Melee cuts (specifically Mewtwo, with a side of Pichu and Roy) all either have been great or have the potential to be great as playable characters.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Then it should apply to Balloon Fighter also..

But Villager has three Balloons and a helmet.
So that kinda deconfirms Balloon Fighter.
But I thought the same thing before E3.

 

[NickerBocker]

I think we can safely rule Balloon Fighter out. Its a little bit different than say, Peach having toad in her moveset. The one thing Balloon Fighter does is flies around with balloons. It would be pretty redundant if him and Villager both had that feature. There are many toads, on the other hand, and seeing more than one of those wouldnt be very strange at all.

Unless Sakurai wants 2 characters with the same gimmick, I dont see it happening, but you never know

 

[Johnknight1]

^^^^ Actually technically there are many Balloon Fighters via the 2-player mode (which was the best thing about that game).

If I had to go with a Retro character I'm thinking Mach Rider would be a good choice. Though Sable and Lip wouldn't be too bad either.

I agree that Mach Rider would be an awesome choice. That or Takamaru would be my top picks, along with Starman (from Pro Wrestling), especially since Little Mac seems like a given.

Wart and Kamek would be my other two retro picks, but eh, they're from current franchises, so I don't think that counts anymore.

I would throw in the Balloon Fighter too, but he's basically deconfirmed as a playable character via the Villager.

Still, I would like to see the Balloon Fighter as an Assist Trophy character... for old times' sake.

 

[Morbi]

I think the SSE took up more memory than everything but the music.

It's crazy how as the gaming world got so multiplayer focused in 2007 (which would help Brawl's sales a lot) the SSE single-player was like the hugest selling point other than the standard multiplayer. They' should have advertise the online play more than anything. Maybe they knew Brawl's online would be awful!

Hopefully they put all that SSE time they had in Brawl into making these 2 Smash games unique from one another, adding a lot of characters and balancing them, and making an online game that is a high quality one (like Soul Calibur V, which was made by the bulk of the Smash Bros. 4 development team).

The lack of an Adventure Mode being such a focus is part of the reason I'm hopeful for a big 51 character roster, actually. That and all of the 39 Brawl playable characters and a few of the Melee cuts (specifically Mewtwo, with a side of Pichu and Roy) all either have been great or have the potential to be great as playable characters.

I actually rarely played Brawl because of the horrendous net-code. I don't like to blame lag; however, when you get good at something... You notice all of the discrepancies. I am going to play Smash 4 online regardless. I used to be really serious about winning, very competitive. However, it is very detrimental to your enjoyment of the game. I have learned this from extensive experience in other online games such as Mortal Kombat and even shooters like Call of Duty (flame shield up). Jigglypuff really opened my eyes to playing for fun (although she was the instrument that got me into "playing to win" back in Melee). This time around, I don't care if lag causes me to lose, or using a bad character does. I am going to have fun and play with everyone on the forums.

So add me to your 3DS if you want some Jigglypuff MU experience. Haha. I might also main Wii Fit Trainer. Not guaranteed at this point (obviously).

 

[NickerBocker]

Balloon fighter assist trophy would be pretty cool. Do you think he would just dive bomb people for damage? Or maybe like in Nintendo Land it could just blow people around.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

N64 would easily be my most wanted character in Smash.
Skull Kid is close in second.
Banjo and Kazooie in third.
Final Fantasy Heroes in fourth, (a new idea I made up a while back)
My most wanted Realistic character?
Little Mac or Ridley, though I am not super excited about them, though I would be happy if they got in.

 

[Morbi]

N64 would easily be my most wanted character in Smash.
Skull Kid is close in second.
My most wanted Realistic character?
Little Mac or Ridley, though I am not super excited about them, though I would be happy if they got in.

The realistic characters I am excited about are Little Mac and Palutena. I suppose Ridley as well, who isn't excited for Ridley?

My unrealistic characters would include Toad, Tingle, and Samurai Goroh.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

The realistic characters I am excited about are Little Mac and Palutena. I suppose Ridley as well, who isn't excited for Ridley?

My unrealistic characters would include Toad, Tingle, and Samurai Goroh.

I wouldn't consider Tingle, (and too a extent Goroh) an unrealistic character.
I'd say Tingle is the most likely new Zelda character. Right next to Tetra, whom I support more.

 

[Morbi]

I wouldn't consider Tingle, (and too a extent Goroh) an unrealistic character.
I'd say Tingle is the most likely new Zelda character. Right next to Tetra, whom I support more.

They are not necessarily unrealistic choices. They are unlikely realistic choices. I honestly think Tingle has more validity than Tetra; however, that wouldn't stop anybody from supporting her. It seems fairly objective that Tingle offers more. Toad is also an extremely important Mario character. The only playable character not playable in Smash. Toad and Tingle draw correlations based on their Japanese popularity (which is where Sora Ltd. is based). One could make an argument for Waluigi or Bowser Jr., both of which would be suitable choices that offer distinct merit (Toad is the best of both in my opinion, he offers the Party/Kart/Sports representation that Waluigi stands for, and he offers relevance and reoccurring roles similar to Bowser Jr.). Samurai Goroh has the persistence of time opposing him. He was in the Melee opening sequence, he was an assist trophy, F-Zero has become a staple of Smash... but it is just too late for the poor guy.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

They are not necessarily unrealistic choices. They are unlikely realistic choices. I honestly think Tingle has more validity than Tetra; however, that wouldn't stop anybody from supporting her. It seems fairly objective that Tingle offers more. Toad is also an extremely important Mario character. The only playable character not playable in Smash. Toad and Tingle draw correlations based on their Japanese popularity (which is where Sora Ltd. is based). One could make an argument for Waluigi or Bowser Jr., both of which would be suitable choices that offer distinct merit (Toad is the best of both in my opinion, he offers the Party/Kart/Sports representation that Waluigi stands for, and he offers relevance and reoccurring roles similar to Bowser Jr.). Samurai Goroh has the persistence of time opposing him. He was in the Melee opening sequence, he was an assist trophy, F-Zero has become a staple of Smash... but it is just too late for the poor guy.

If time matters with newcomer, than Ridley has the same likeliness as Goroh,
Both staple series of Smash, have not received a newcomer since Smash64.

Off topic, if anyone wants to discuss character reveal dates
Go to this new thread I made,
Once it is populated, it won't suck.
http://smashboards.com/threads/character-reveal-day-prediction-thread.341512/

 

[Johnknight1]

So guys, I just read some of the comments on IGN's section for Project M, and apparently, some of them said that the fact Project M wasn't developed by Nintendo, it looked bad.

Boy, little did they know that Brawl wasn't developed by Nintendo either, and neither will Smash Wii U and 3DS!!!

#TheIgnorantNintendoFanboyMasses #WhyIHateFanboys #BeAGamerNotAFanboy #TakeOffTheNintendoManThong

If time matters with newcomer, than Ridley has the same likeliness as Goroh,
Both staple series of Smash, have not received a newcomer since Smash64.

They're not even close.

Goroh is just another racer, Ridley is the primary villain of the franchise.

On top of that, F-Zero has been dead for almost a decade, whereas Metroid continues to be Nintendo's best single-player franchise, by far.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

So guys, I just read some of the comments on IGN's section for Project M, and apparently, some of them said that the fact Project M wasn't developed by Nintendo, it looked bad.

Boy, little did they know that Brawl wasn't developed by Nintendo either, and neither will Smash Wii U and 3DS!!!

#TheIgnorantNintendoFanboyMasses #WhyIHateFanboys #BeAGamerNotAFanboy #TakeOffTheNintendoManThong

They're not even close.

Goroh is just another racer, Ridley is the primary villain of the franchise.

On top of that, F-Zero has been dead for almost a decade, whereas Metroid continues to be Nintendo's best single-player franchise, by far.

But they are both staples of the Smash Series.

And Metroid is not the best Single Player.
Zelda, Mario Galaxy/Sunshine/64.

 

[Morbi]

But they are both staples of the Smash Series.

And Metroid is not the best Single Player.
Zelda, Mario Galaxy/Sunshine/64.

You forgot Pokemon. I guess it is technically 2nd Party if that is why you excluded it. However, I think Ridley is more of an exception. I think about it like this (fallacy ridden logic incoming) if we got Wolf in Brawl, and we get Ridley in Smash 4, we will surely get Samurai Goroh in Smash X. The reason being? One Melee cut-scene "veteran" for each new installment. Just kidding of course, I just really like patterns. We could very well be getting none or both. However, I wouldn't necessarily put the two on the same level. The main reason being that Sakurai is aware of Ridley's staggering popularity and the plethora of requests he gets. Samurai Goroh on the other hand, is pushed by Sakurai. I think most people would prefer Black Shadow (even if it is to just de-clone Ganon).

 

[Mega Bidoof]

You forgot Pokemon. I guess it is technically 2nd Party if that is why you excluded it. However, I think Ridley is more of an exception. I think about it like this (fallacy ridden logic incoming) if we got Wolf in Brawl, and we get Ridley in Smash 4, we will surely get Samurai Goroh in Smash X. The reason being? One Melee cut-scene "veteran" for each new installment. Just kidding of course, I just really like patterns. We could very well be getting none or both. However, I wouldn't necessarily put the two on the same level. The main reason being that Sakurai is aware of Ridley's staggering popularity and the plethora of requests he gets. Samurai Goroh on the other hand, is pushed by Sakurai. I think most people would prefer Black Shadow (even if it is to just de-clone Ganon).

I didn't say Pokémon because "it's based on that whole online thing". I don't actually play online that often.

 

[Morbi]

I didn't say Pokémon because "it's based on that whole online thing". I don't actually play online that often.

Pokemon used to be all about the single player back in my day, when there were 151 Pokemon and a 100 Pokemon expansion! Just kidding, I actually still view them as single player games with multiplayer elements. That might just be me though. They are certainly pushing accessibility and things of a similar nature, I just don't think that it changes the core mechanics in the game. Essentially it is how the user plays the game. So for me, I view it as single player because I don't play online too much. For somebody else, they might live for the online and struggle to get through the story.