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Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

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Morbi

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I actually feel that while Toad is the most deserving, a second Mario persona is a better choice and more likely because Sakurai might see some sort of issue with Toad being on the roster. Probably his role or some bull ****.
I actually love that answer. It actually makes sense. It doesn't blatantly question the notion that Toad is the most deserving. It attempts to use empirical data to speculate on what Sora Ltd. might actualize. It is more intelligent than the typical Toad opposition. That is for sure.
 

Espio264

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As you can see, I enjoy Toon Link. But here's what I believe. I think that if you make "clones" different from one another, you can almost get away with it. Great examples are Wolf and Toon Link, who just feel different when playing as them. I don't think Dixie would be a clone, but she would be based off the Diddy model for this game, which would make her easy to program. However, I expect her to have a unique, or rather an almost unique moveset based on hair, bubble gum, etc. etc.
You're right, and I'm not disputing who is and who is not a deserving character, but when a clone is added, does anybody but people already a part of their fanbase care to play as them?

Example. I love Falco, I honestly don't care that he's a Fox clone, I'll defend him to the death. But I was also already a fan. When Brawl came out, I expected to play my mains and newcomers that I was interested in (PT, Lucario, Sonic). I had never, (and still have never) played a FE game, but I picked up Ike and loved playing as him. I never really cared for Marth or Roy in Melee, but Ike was so fun to play as, he became my new favorite. On the same point, I tried Lucas, but because of his similarities to Ness, I never really cared to play him any more than I had to. Same goes with Doc, Pichu and Ganondorf in Melee.

My point is just that does a character merit inclusion more because they are new and exciting (even if sharing a few moves), or as long as we have all the A - Listers, that's all that matters? Even if some of them aren't fun or original in the least? I absolutely don't look to be RIGHT, or the smartest guy in the room on this, I'm seriously curious whether or not people want a FUN game, or what feels like a complete game?

If Dixie deserves inclusion, whether or not she's an outright Diddy clone, then both RIDLEY and TOAD deserve inclusion regardless if they're too big/small or similar to anyone else.
 

Richard 89

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I'm still hoping that K. Rool gets in smash at least as either a playable character, a boss, or a trophy character, just as long as he's in and not OUT.
 

BKupa666

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I disagree entirely. King K. Rool is in NO way a shoe-in. Dixie seems to be more important to the Donkey Kong universe than King K. Rool and not only would many fans prefer her appearance, but she'd be easier to develop too. I wouldn't say King K. Rool being a villian adds to his chances in the slightest as there are so many occasions where he was not the villian. Dixie Kong getting in over King K. Rool is extremely likely regardless of how much move potential K. Rool has.

I know what you're going to say, so I'll argue it before you do. Being a clone won't make Dixie lower priority than King K. Rool. Representing the more deserving character is more important than her move set and she'd only share 3 moves total with Diddy Kong.
I can agree that K. Rool isn't an absolute shoo-in (with two goddamn 'o's), but you're starting to talk nonsense here. Dixie is in no way more important within their series of origin, nor do I think you legitimately believe that...up until August, K. Rool was on your prediction roster instead, so I think you're just easily influenced by the 'relevance' crew despite being adamant that you're not. Repetition of a claim leads to passive acceptance of it as fact, and all that.

You neglect to mention that, within the DK series, Dixie has been absent as a tertiary protagonist far more often and for far longer than K. Rool has been as the main villain; it just so happens that K. Rool's absences have been quite recent, and DK doesn't get that many new games to begin with. You're also tripping over yourself claiming that Dixie would be easier to develop presumably because of being female Diddy, and yet she'd only share three moves with Diddy...thus making her a mostly original character, and thus not making her easier to develop, though of course, brilliant ideas like 'repping' and 'deserving' balance all that out. Lastly, not only has Dixie never been more wanted than K. Rool, discussion of her at all never manifested itself until very recently, after Sakurai finished taking fan requests, whereas K. Rool has been on Sakurai's radar (judging by his notebook mentions) since pre-Brawl, and desire for him has gone up substantially since then.
 

Rebellious Treecko

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So, I've asked this question before I think, but if you could choose a mix of three starters from any gen for a new Pokemon Trainer, which ones would you choose? (one has to be in it's first form, one in it's second, and one in it's final evolution)
Kanto: Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard (obviously)
Johto: Totodile, Quilava, Meganium
Hoenn: Treecko, Marshtomp, Blaziken (assuming the Grovyle from PMD2 is his own fighter)
Sinnoh: Chimchar, Grotle, Empoleon
Unova: Tepig, Dewott, Serperior
Kalos: Chespin, Braixen, Greninja

The Pokemon are evenly distributed, meaning (for example) that there are two final stage grass types, two fire types, and two water types among the various trainers, and the same goes for first stage and second stages as well.

----
 

TheLastJinjo

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I can agree that K. Rool isn't an absolute shoo-in (with two goddamn 'o's), but you're starting to talk nonsense here. Dixie is in no way more important within their series of origin, nor do I think you legitimately believe that...up until August, K. Rool was on your prediction roster instead, so I think you're just easily influenced by the 'relevance' crew despite being adamant that you're not. Repetition of a claim leads to passive acceptance of it as fact, and all that.
Bull ****. I've gone around telling every idiot that Tropical Freeze is not a reason to add Dixie. The reason I used to have King K. Rool is because he had potential and because I didn't agree with having girl Diddy back then. But, I realize Dixie Kong is more important than K. Rool. She's the third main Kong of the series and King K. Rool has a history of being neglected now and then as have all the Kritters in general. Not only that, but she is seen representing the series in spin-off games (including Mario) more often than King K. Rool is and was even going to appear in Brawl. This isn't to say it makes King K. Rool undeserving, just not as much as Dixie Kong. I've made millions of changes to my roster before.

You neglect to mention that, within the DK series, Dixie has been absent as a tertiary protagonist far more often and for far longer than K. Rool has been as the main villain
I don't believe so.

it just so happens that K. Rool's absences have been quite recent
What about Donkey Kong Jungle Beat?

Lastly, not only has Dixie never been more wanted than K. Rool, discussion of her at all never manifested itself until very recently, after Sakurai finished taking fan requests, whereas K. Rool has been on Sakurai's radar (judging by his notebook mentions) since pre-Brawl, and desire for him has gone up substantially since then.
Dixie is actually pretty requested in Japan if I recall correctly. That's not to say requests will get you in over another character. I'd also like to point out that I see Dixie Kong advertised in artwork and such more than I do King K. Rool.
 

Morbi

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Kanto: Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard (obviously)
Johto: Totodile, Quilava, Meganium
Hoenn: Treecko, Marshtomp, Blaziken (assuming the Grovyle from PMD2 is his own fighter)
Sinnoh: Chimchar, Grotle, Empoleon
Unova: Tepig, Dewott, Serperior
Kalos: Chespin, Braixen, Greninja

The Pokemon are evenly distributed, meaning (for example) that there are two final stage grass types, two fire types, and two water types among the various trainers, and the same goes for first stage and second stages as well.

----
Serperior would probably be a pain to program. Snivy might be easier because he has limbs. Just a thought.
Kanto: Bulbasaur, Wartortle, Charizard
Johto: Totodile, Bayleff, Typhlosion
Hoenn: Mudkip, Grovyle, Blaziken
Sinnoh: Piplup, Monferno, Torterra
Unova: Snivy, Dewott, Emboar
Kalos: Same
 

Knight Dude

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What if Starfy got in and not Issac

Personally, I'd be slightly dissapointed. I kinda like Starfy. But Isaac, I feel would add a lot more to the roster than Starfy could muster. Seeing as how Isaac has four elements at his disposal, can summon giants, and knows his way around a sword and/or axe.
 

BKupa666

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Bull ****. I've gone around telling every idiot that Tropical Freeze is not a reason to add Dixie. The reason I used to have King K. Rool is because he had potential and because I didn't agree with having girl Diddy back then. But, I realize Dixie Kong is more important than K. Rool. She's the third main Kong of the series and King K. Rool has a history of being neglected now and then as have all the Kritters in general. Not only that, but she is seen representing the series in spin-off games (including Mario) more often than King K. Rool is and was even going to appear in Brawl. This isn't to say it makes King K. Rool undeserving, just not as much as Dixie Kong. I've made millions of changes to my roster before.

I don't believe so.

What about Donkey Kong Jungle Beat?

Dixie is actually pretty requested in Japan if I recall correctly. That's not to say requests will get you in over another character. I'd also like to point out that I see Dixie Kong advertised in artwork and such more than I do King K. Rool.
Okay, fine, bull****. I just fine it mighty convenient that this epiphany of yours comes after months of (mostly) speculation scene newcomers claiming that Dixie is now a shoo-in.

K. Rool has a history of being neglected? You must have forgotten that Dixie hasn't been playable in a new platformer since DKC3 back in 1996. She's been reduced to either a background character or a spin-off character up until Tropical Freeze, while K. Rool has always kept his role as main villain before 2010, with the exception of Jungle Beat, which I'm sure you don't want to make the mistake of claiming to be influential over Smash rosters. Spin-off titles? Guess Waluigi is definitely getting in. Almost riding Diddy's coattails into Brawl before being unceremoniously dropped along with the mechanic? Unless you're advocating that the mechanic be revisited, Dixie now has to get in on her own merit, which would only get her in alongside K. Rool, not before him.

Requests most certainly come into play, and you're kidding yourself if you think they don't...based on you being dismissive of the near dozen links I posted the other day as evidence, up to and including multiple crystal clear Sakurai statements, you're currently kidding yourself. Also, it might just be me, but it kind of makes sense for characters to get and not get artwork depending on what games they are or are not in.
 

Arcanir

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Kanto: Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard (obviously)
Johto: Totodile, Quilava, Meganium
Hoenn: Treecko, Marshtomp, Blaziken (assuming the Grovyle from PMD2 is his own fighter)
Sinnoh: Chimchar, Grotle, Empoleon
Unova: Tepig, Dewott, Serperior
Kalos: Chespin, Braixen, Greninja

The Pokemon are evenly distributed, meaning (for example) that there are two final stage grass types, two fire types, and two water types among the various trainers, and the same goes for first stage and second stages as well.

----
Pretty much this for me would work as well except for Meganium being changed out for Feraligatr, Empoleon for Torterra and Grovyle for Marshtomp.
 

Chandeelure

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Okay, fine, bull****. I just fine it mighty convenient that this epiphany of yours comes after months of (mostly) speculation scene newcomers claiming that Dixie is now a shoo-in.

K. Rool has a history of being neglected? You must have forgotten that Dixie hasn't been playable in a new platformer since DKC3 back in 1996. She's been reduced to either a background character or a spin-off character up until Tropical Freeze, while K. Rool has always kept his role as main villain before 2010, with the exception of Jungle Beat, which I'm sure you don't want to make the mistake of claiming to be influential over Smash rosters. Spin-off titles? Guess Waluigi is definitely getting in. Almost riding Diddy's coattails into Brawl before being unceremoniously dropped along with the mechanic? Unless you're advocating that the mechanic be revisited, Dixie now has to get in on her own merit, which would only get her in alongside K. Rool, not before him.

Requests most certainly come into play, and you're kidding yourself if you think they don't...based on you being dismissive of the near dozen links I posted the other day as evidence, up to and including multiple crystal clear Sakurai statements, you're currently kidding yourself. Also, it might just be me, but it kind of makes sense for characters to get and not get artwork depending on what games they are or are not in.

Man,K.Rool is pretty likely,but is obvious that Dixie is more likely...
 

BluePikmin11

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So I just watched the Genesect movie. I'm not too sure why Mewtwo has a female voice.
I also watched the X and Y anime, the female protagonist seems connected to Ash. Ash finally has a crush? This makes me want to buy Pokemon Y more. So freakin jealous.
 

TheLastJinjo

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Okay, fine, bull****. I just fine it mighty convenient that this epiphany of yours comes after months of (mostly) speculation scene newcomers claiming that Dixie is now a shoo-in.
Because I totally said she was a shoo-in.

K. Rool has a history of being neglected? You must have forgotten that Dixie hasn't been playable in a new platformer since DKC3 back in 1996. She's been reduced to either a background character or a spin-off character up until Tropical Freeze, while K. Rool has always kept his role as main villain before 2010,
That's not true she's basically been a protagonist in every game that King K. Rool has been a villain after Donkey Kong 64. Like King of Swing and Jungle Climber.

with the exception of Jungle Beat, which I'm sure you don't want to make the mistake of claiming to be influential over Smash rosters. Spin-off titles? Guess Waluigi is definitely getting in.
I fail to see how this comparison of Waluigi & Dixie works...at all.

Dixie now has to get in on her own merit, which would only get her in alongside K. Rool, not before him.
I lol at this.

Requests most certainly come into play, and you're kidding yourself if you think they don't...
They do, but people like you pretend it's the most major factor.

based on you being dismissive of the near dozen links I posted the other day as evidence, up to and including multiple crystal clear Sakurai statements, you're currently kidding yourself.
What are you talking about? What links? We weren't even talking about King K. Rool yesterday.
 

Arcanir

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So I just watched the Genesect movie. I'm not too sure why Mewtwo has a female voice.
I also watched the X and Y anime, the female protagonist seems connected to Ash. Ash finally has a crush? This makes me want to buy Pokemon Y more. So freakin jealous.
It's a different Mewtwo so it got a different voice.

And you should try it out, Y's pretty good!
 

TheLastJinjo

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So I just watched the Genesect movie. I'm not too sure why Mewtwo has a female voice.
I also watched the X and Y anime, the female protagonist seems connected to Ash. Ash finally has a crush? This makes me want to buy Pokemon Y more. So freakin jealous.
Can you please stay on topic today!? Save it for another thread!
 

Espio264

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So I just watched the Genesect movie. I'm not too sure why Mewtwo has a female voice.
I also watched the X and Y anime, the female protagonist seems connected to Ash. Ash finally has a crush? This makes me want to buy Pokemon Y more. So freakin jealous.
It's about freakin' time. He was 10 back fifteen years ago when I was in the 4th grade. It's about damn time they give him a lady.

And does female voiced Mewtwo possibly affect the deep, sinister laugh from Melee coming back with Mewtwo in this game?
 

BluePikmin11

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It's a different Mewtwo so it got a different voice.

And you should try it out, Y's pretty good!
I have a feeling I'm gonna have great time with Pokemon Y.

It's about freakin' time. He was 10 back fifteen years ago when I was in the 4th grade. It's about damn time they give him a lady.

And does female voiced Mewtwo possibly affect the deep, sinister laugh from Melee coming back with Mewtwo in this game?
I would lol if they gave Mewtwo a female voice.
 

Zhadgon

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How the hell there can be two Mewtwos in the world of Pokemon, I was thinking that was one time experiment and can´t be reproduced anymore?
.n_n.
 

Autumn ♫

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Sonic has been requested for Smash since Sonic Adventure hit the GameCube, way before Snake was even revealed, are you kidding me?
Probably not as much as he was during Brawl after Snake was revealed, as he was probably as requested as Goku or Naruto is now.
Snake was also planned for Melee too.
 

FinalStarmen

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And does female voiced Mewtwo possibly affect the deep, sinister laugh from Melee coming back with Mewtwo in this game?

More-than-likely, Mewtwo will just simply retain his more well-known and menacing deep-voiced laugh from Super Smash Brothers Melee (as well as gender), considering its an iconic signature.
 

Gune

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So I just watched the Genesect movie. I'm not too sure why Mewtwo has a female voice.
I also watched the X and Y anime, the female protagonist seems connected to Ash. Ash finally has a crush? This makes me want to buy Pokemon Y more. So freakin jealous.
Mew two sounds like a chick in the English version too?
 

Arcanir

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How the hell there can be two Mewtwos in the world of Pokemon, I was thinking that was one time experiment and can´t be reproduced anymore?
.n_n.
Technically it should, the lab was destroyed along with anyone or anything that could replicate it, and it's not helped as the new Mewtwo's backstory does nothing to explain how it happens despite that. Shame too, could've been an interesting plot point.

Mew two sounds like a chick in the English version too?
Yeah, they didn't change it.
 

Zhadgon

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Technically it should, the lab was destroyed along with anyone or anything that could replicate it, and it's not helped as the new Mewtwo's backstory does nothing to explain how it happens despite that. Shame too, could've been an interesting plot point.
Yeah, they didn't change it.
Well thats sad, I'm losing more and more hope in the Pokemon movies (oh well at least the games are still fun XD).
.n_n.
 

BKupa666

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Man,K.Rool is pretty likely,but is obvious that Dixie is more likely...
I don't think it's that obvious when you have to resort to claiming it's obvious and hoping people nod their heads in agreement as opposed to actually making a case for yourself.

Because I totally said she was a shoo-in.

That's not true she's basically been a protagonist in every game that King K. Rool has been a villain after Donkey Kong 64. Like King of Swing and Jungle Climber.

I fail to see how this comparison of Waluigi & Dixie works...at all.

I lol at this.

They do, but people like you pretend it's the most major factor.

What are you talking about? What links? We weren't even talking about King K. Rool yesterday.
The speculation scene newcomers say that Dixie is a shoo-in, and I think it's convenient that your epiphany occurred during a phase where many of them were around saying that. Dixie has been a selectable character in the multiplayer modes of King of Swing and Jungle Climber, but lacked any plot significance within those games, unlike main villain K. Rool (I get the feeling you glanced at the Mario Wiki to make the claim that she's been a protagonist in each of them, rather than playing them). The Waluigi and Dixie comparison works in that, if you think Mario Sports games have any bearing on what Donkey Kong series characters are likely to get in, then surely they'd have a much stronger bearing on what characters get in from the Mario series itself.

I look at precedent when evaluating potential newcomers, and character popularity has played a vital role in which characters have become playable in the past; other than specific exceptions chosen as shock characters, all characters have had some degree of popularity, and, more importantly, no widely-beloved fan favorite character has not become playable in the past, beyond just 'pretty impossible' Ridley.

I'm copying over my posts from the other day in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, they'll be persuasive, though I'm skeptical:

Sakurai isn't putting in Palutena - for one he don't care bout the fan requests
Stop right there. I'm going to use that as a springboard off of which to call bull**** on every single person who has said some variation of the bolded quote over the past few months.

Masahiro Sakurai said:
Anyone who is going to sit here and claim that Sakurai doesn't care about the fans, and by extension, the characters who get their popularity from the fans, should in no way be taken seriously in a speculative discussion.

This also goes for the handful of people I've seen trying to piggyback off of the community's distaste for the "relevance" talking point to start a similar meme out of 'MUH POPULARITY.' You'll never find a fraction of the testimonial evidence in favor of that garbage as you will with popularity, because, other than Sakurai considering promoted Pokemon as a factor (which we knew was the exception to the rule all along), it doesn't exist.

Lastly, this is less of an admonishment toward the people flooding their rosters with random NPCs and more of an warning: you now have Sakurai's quotes staring you in the face, rather than just the words of random users that they exist. Take heed of Sakurai going on the record multiple times and citing popularity as a factor behind character decisions, then add those popular characters back to any prediction roster you hope to have taken seriously, regardless of how 'boring' or 'mindless' you find it. You'll thank yourself in the long run after the final roster is unveiled.

EDIT: Added another quote I can't believe I overlooked...Sakurai spells his consideration of fan requests out for you about as blatantly as he can. It's translated from French, so I'm linking the French article here, and NeoGAF's translation above.

And also:

This is implying fan requests played a major role in their inclusion and not that they clearly earned it.
Go look at his quotes about Wario and Sonic just a few posts above you. Also, in the "Diddy and Dixie were intended as a duo" article, Sakurai claims that Diddy went on to become a character because 'people found it odd that he hadn't already appeared.' Dedede, Diddy, Ike, Olimar, Toon Link, Villager, Lucas, and Mega Man also all appear mentioned multiple times on Sakuari's published list of fan requests.

I am at a loss for words as to how to make the obvious any more so.
 

KingofPhantoms

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Indeed it coud've been an interesting plot point had they explained why there was another Mewtwo. Perhaps it may be explained later, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.


Well we've really run out of things to discuss here, haven't we?

Here's a question then. How do you feel about the idea of DLC costume/palettes for holidays? (like Halloween, Christmas etc)
 

Robert of Normandy

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Stop right there. I'm going to use that as a springboard off of which to call bull**** on every single person who has said some variation of the bolded quote over the past few months.



Anyone who is going to sit here and claim that Sakurai doesn't care about the fans, and by extension, the characters who get their popularity from the fans, should in no way be taken seriously in a speculative discussion.

This also goes for the handful of people I've seen trying to piggyback off of the community's distaste for the "relevance" talking point to start a similar meme out of 'MUH POPULARITY.' You'll never find a fraction of the testimonial evidence in favor of that garbage as you will with popularity, because, other than Sakurai considering promoted Pokemon as a factor (which we knew was the exception to the rule all along), it doesn't exist.

Lastly, this is less of an admonishment toward the people flooding their rosters with random NPCs and more of an warning: you now have Sakurai's quotes staring you in the face, rather than just the words of random users that they exist. Take heed of Sakurai going on the record multiple times and citing popularity as a factor behind character decisions, then add those popular characters back to any prediction roster you hope to have taken seriously, regardless of how 'boring' or 'mindless' you find it. You'll thank yourself in the long run after the final roster is unveiled.

EDIT: Added another quote I can't believe I overlooked...Sakurai spells his consideration of fan requests out for you about as blatantly as he can. It's translated from French, so I'm linking the French article here, and NeoGAF's translation above.

And also:



Go look at his quotes about Wario and Sonic just a few posts above you. Also, in the "Diddy and Dixie were intended as a duo" article, Sakurai claims that Diddy went on to become a character because 'people found it odd that he hadn't already appeared.' Dedede, Diddy, Ike, Olimar, Toon Link, Villager, Lucas, and Mega Man also all appear mentioned multiple times on Sakuari's published list of fan requests.

I am at a loss for words as to how to make the obvious any more so.

Bravo good sir.

Though I wonder with why, so much evidence that points to Sakurai caring about fan requests, people still think he doesn't care.
 

TheLastJinjo

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The speculation scene newcomers say that Dixie is a shoo-in, and I think it's convenient that your epiphany occurred during a phase where many of them were around saying that. Dixie has been a selectable character in the multiplayer modes of King of Swing and Jungle Climber, but lacked any plot significance within those games, unlike main villain K. Rool (I get the feeling you glanced at the Mario Wiki to make the claim that she's been a protagonist in each of them, rather than playing them). The Waluigi and Dixie comparison works in that, if you think Mario Sports games have any bearing on what Donkey Kong series characters are likely to get in, then surely they'd have a much stronger bearing on what characters get in from the Mario series itself.
It looks like you're basically jumping around declaring what counts and what doesn't. Donkey Kong has relations to Mario, so Dixie being in a Mario game should in fact count. And now you're acting like you have to be important to the plot of Donkey Kong to be significant in that game? Since when? And if she is a playable character doing what Donkey Kong is doing she is a protagonist too.

all characters have had some degree of popularity
nope

and, more importantly, no widely-beloved fan favorite character has not become playable in the past
Lol! That is NOT true!


Go look at his quotes about Wario and Sonic just a few posts above you. Also, in the "Diddy and Dixie were intended as a duo" article, Sakurai claims that Diddy went on to become a character because 'people found it odd that he hadn't already appeared.' Dedede, Diddy, Ike, Olimar, Toon Link, Villager, Lucas, and Mega Man also all appear mentioned multiple times on Sakuari's published list of fan requests.
But, he never would have added them if they didn't earn it. Again, you act like they were added for LITERALLY NO reason other than be requested, in which case you are kidding yourself.
 

Robert of Normandy

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SaturnGamer thinks all characters have no popularity? Wut?
No, he thinks that not all character have some degree of popularity, which isn't true either. There's somebody who likes pretty much every character, it's just the magnitude of most characters' popularity isn't significant enough to impact their chances for Smash.
 
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