Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Starcutter]

Throwing out this, but who are these characters? I don´t remember them from any Mario Bros Game.

.n_n.

One's Boom-Boom from mario 3, apparently he got a girlfriend

 

[XStarWarriorX]

Do anyone have a feeling this Friday night we'll get "A REAL pic of the day" update?

No. **** the cardinals i have to watch the supa mets (dodgers) break my baseball heart again next year...postseason style.

 

[Arcadenik]

Throwing out this, but who are these characters? I don´t remember them from any Mario Bros Game.

.n_n.

They were both in Super Mario 3D Land. He is Boom Boom and she is Pom Pom. Boom Boom was originally in Super Mario Bros. 3.

 

[Starphoenix]

How about Starfy? Played his game a couple of months ago while on a trip and found him to be very endearing as a character, and surprisingly had a lot more potential than even I realized. It would be funny to have him playable considering there seems to be this internet axiom that he and Kirby are gameplay rivals.

 

[FinalStarmen]

Crap! I forgot about Wario's Woods... but of course, I was only counting the main games.



Let's discuss franchises that actually has a chance of getting characters but let's not discuss Fire Emblem, Pokemon, Mario, and Zelda... let's give the retro/history/WTF character discussion a break... that includes Dr. Kawashima and Hanafuda characters as well.

You seem to have missed my point. I would rather go back to that... than this. Otherwise, yes, let us turn our attention to other, more mitigated matters.

Do anyone have a feeling this Friday night we'll get "A REAL pic of the day" update?

I wouldn't get my hopes up.

so anyways guys, let's talk about someone else....

flippin I DON'T KNOW! someone DIFFERENT!

...Captain Falcon?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Throwing out this, but who are these characters? I don´t remember them from any Mario Bros Game.

.n_n.

Boom Boom, the orange one is orginally from Super Mario Bros. 3. He later appeared in Super Mario 3D Land along with that female pink one, who is called Pom Pom.

 

[EddyBearr]

How about Starfy? Played his game a couple of months ago while on a trip and found him to be very endearing as a character, and surprisingly had a lot more potential than even I realized. It would be funny to have him playable considering there seems to be this internet axiom that he and Kirby are gameplay rivals.

What kinda potential does he have? Just wondering, as I know close to nothing about Starfy.

 

[Arcadenik]

How about Starfy? Played his game a couple of months ago while on a trip and found him to be very endearing as a character, and surprisingly had a lot more potential than even I realized. It would be funny to have him playable considering there seems to be this internet axiom that he and Kirby are gameplay rivals.

Starfy will always have my support. I am really interested in what he and his franchise could bring to Smash. Starfy could be the first wing-less character who can glide!

 

[Zhadgon]

One's Boom-Boom from mario 3, apparently he got a girlfriend

They were both in Super Mario 3D Land. He is Boom Boom and she is Pom Pom. Boom Boom was originally in Super Mario Bros. 3.

Oh thanks now I remember Boom Boom, still I have not play SM3DL what attacks does Pom Pom have?
.n_n.

 

[Arcadenik]

Oh thanks now I remember Boom Boom, still I have not play SM3DL what attacks does Pom Pom have?
.n_n.

Pom Pom throws boomerangs and gets inside her shell to do ground pounds... at least that's how I remember her boss fights.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

...Captain Falcon?

how about falcondorf? anyone? what do you guys think of the possibility's of falcondorf(aka ganondorf) getting an original move set
and if so what would it be

 

[Swift Fox]

how about captaindorf? anyone? what do you guys think of the possibility's of captaindorf(aka ganondorf) getting an original move set
and if so what would it be

Nah I like Falcondorf the way he is

 

[Starphoenix]

It's nothing "bad," but the problem is that it's not unique.

Let me put it this way.. We'll go with Mario.

Mario's specials, we all understand. Look at his jab-combo. That's the jab combo from SM64. Look at his down smash. It's from SM64. His dash attack is his dash attack" from SM64. All these are unique to Mario.

But now let's look at Toad. Toad could ride in a go-kart, but so could Mario, a Koopa Troopa, or Baby Luigi. This isn't special to Toad.
Toad could use an item, but so can anyone.
Toad can use "Spores," but there's no history, outside of as Peach's special, of Toad using spores to fight. There's no evidence Toad has much control over what spores do once released. There's just almost no personal moveset potential for Toad.

Yes, but a lot of characters do things in Super Smash Bros that are contrary or exceed the nature of their games. To try and put Toad in a box and say that he is incapable of doing more than he has shown in other Mario games is not consistent with other characters in the game now. Toad already has distinguishing attributes that separate him from other throwaway characters, and I cannot remember the last Goomba or Koopa Troopa was a playable character in a Super Mario Bros title.

As for Toad and spores, actually Mario Sports Mix shows Toad using spores and fungi as both offensive and defensive capabilities in that game, so it isn't that much of a stretch, actually. And if Sakurai were to use that game to inspire some of Toad's moveset, it actually might not be the first time he's used a Square-Enix Mario title to influence some of the moves for characters in the game -- e.g. Peach's standard A combo, frying pan attack and Mario's Final smash originating from Super Mario RPG. Just something to consider.

 

[Zhadgon]

Ok I have a question, in the Mario World from the villains side, especially the Koopa Family how is the hierarchy of power?
1) Bowser
2) Kamek / Bowser Jr.
3) Koopalings
4) Boom Boom
5) Pom Pom
6) Common enemies (Para Troopas, Chomp Chomps, Dry Bones, etc.).

So that give us Kamek or Bowser Jr. as a contenders for a spot?

.n_n.

 

[SchAlternate]

Star Fox 64 had a "ground mode" for versus mode, which included the laser. Plus, Star Fox 64 was such a big game, that not having Fox playable in Smash 64 would've been quite depressing. Sometimes improvision is necessary when a character is necessary.

Except those laser guns you mention were actually fricking BAZOOKAS. Which behave oh-so differently different than the actual blaster.

Though, as far as I'm concerned, Fox's move are indeed based on what he did in the game, only that except the Arwing being the one that used them it was the pilot himself.

Blaster - Laser shots
Fox Illusion - Boost
Fire Fox - Boost?
Reflector - Barrel Roll

This kinda proves that a character CAN borrow moves from his home series even though it was the artifact it used that did those things (Arwing/Floppy Disk) rather than the character itself (Fox/Diskun).

 

[Starphoenix]

What kinda potential does he have? Just wondering, as I know close to nothing about Starfy.

He had a lot more movement than I had imagined. Sounds weird, but considering my biggest problem with Starfy in the past is I thought all he was capable of doing is spin around and swim, I was surprised. Between him and his sister, there is enough Sakurai could pull from if he chose to. Plus, there are those crazy suits that could comprise his special attacks. But I think above all what makes me support Starfy more is he has a surprising amount of personality. Even though the dialogue is menial at best, the little nuances in his demeanor actually managed to make me crack a couple smiles.

Starfy will always have my support. I am really interested in what he and his franchise could bring to Smash. Starfy could be the first wing-less character who can glide!

Beach stage would interesting. Introduce special mechanics where players can fight underwater.

 

[?????????????]

IF Kamek became a playable character, I would hope that he is categorized as a "Yoshi Series" character. Makes just as much sense as a "Yoshi Series" category existing.

 

[Morbi]

how about falcondorf? anyone? what do you guys think of the possibility's of falcondorf(aka ganondorf) getting an original move set
and if so what would it be

I lost hope after Luigi didn't have his Poltergust. Falcondorf confirmed.

 

[SchAlternate]

how about falcondorf? anyone? what do you guys think of the possibility's of falcondorf(aka ganondorf) getting an original move set
and if so what would it be

For his standards, he just needs a trident. Giving him a trident means unique animations and longer range, no need to alter the physics of his moves (bar the additional hitboxes).

As for his specials, Warlock Punch could be turned into a mid-ranged blast of dark energy; AKA give it a bigger hitbox.
Wizard Foot could be replace by that ground punch he makes in OoT. Works the same in the air, though.
Flame Choke is fine as it is, and so is Dark Dive.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Toad is a humanoid mushroom. He was already given the ability to use spores in Smash in one of Peach's moves, so why can't he use it in varying ways as a playable character?

And Captain Falcon was just a phyiscally strong man in a highly advanced race car, then in Smash he was included and was made a fast, agile athlete with the ability to use super power fiery burning and kicks. Giving him fire based powers is at least a bit more of a stretch than giving Toad the ability to use spores if you ask me. At least Toad was meant to be a humanoid fungi in the first place, while Capt. Falcon's powers came out of nowhere.

And what's wrong with Toad using items from NSMB games while said items could also be items in Smash? Mario and Luigi can throw fireballs and the Fire Flower is still an item that functions differently.

 

[Arcadenik]

It makes so much sense for Toad to have spores.... Toad is a mushroom person... mushrooms have spores... so it makes sense for a mushroom person to throw spores. It would also make sense for a mushroom person to use mushrooms with various magical properties... so Toad could incorporate Propeller Mushroom, Poison Mushroom, Golden Mushroom, etc. as part of his moveset.

I always liked the idea of Propeller Mushroom, Poison Mushroom, and Golden Mushroom for Toad's specials. Toad needs a recovery move... so the Propeller Mushroom is ideal for that... and the Propeller Mushroom debuted in the same game where Toad(s) were playable in a main Mario game for the first time since SMB2 (USA). I like the Poison Mushroom from SMB2 (JP) because it was CPU-controlled Toad's special item in the original Super Mario Kart. Toad could pull out the mushroom like Peach pulls out Toad... and it could explode into spores that shrink opponents when they hit the mushroom and they suffer lasting damage much like Lip's Stick flowers. I also like the Golden Mushroom from the Mario Kart series because it was Toad's special item in Mario Kart: Double Dash!! The Golden Mushroom could enable Toad to run faster and he would tackle the opponent.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Nah I like Falcondorf the way he is

I guess we're on the opposite ends of things then.

 

[Arcadenik]

Starphoenix mentioned an underwater stage for Starfy... how would it work? The closest analogy I could think of is Hanenbow since it is underwater... well, it's supposed to be underwater...

 

[EddyBearr]

Yes, but a lot of characters do things in Super Smash Bros that are contrary or exceed the nature of their games. To try and put Toad in a box and say that he is incapable of doing more than he has shown in other Mario games is not consistent with other characters in the game now. Toad already has distinguishing attributes that separate him from other throwaway characters, and I cannot remember the last Goomba or Koopa Troopa was a playable character in a Super Mario Bros title.

As for Toad and spores, actually Mario Sports Mix shows Toad using spores and fungi as both offensive and defensive capabilities in that game, so it isn't that much of a stretch, actually. And if Sakurai were to use that game to inspire some of Toad's moveset, it actually might not be the first time he's used a Square-Enix Mario title to influence some of the moves for characters in the game -- e.g. Peach's standard A combo, frying pan attack and Mario's Final smash originating from Super Mario RPG. Just something to consider.

But you see, I do not say Toad is incapable. I simply say he lacks inherent moveset potential, which is entirely true, and because of that, I tend to view Toad is relatively unlikely, especially since in the Mario franchise alone, he has to compete with Bowser Jr. and Waluigi.

Interesting in Mario Sports Mix.

Toad is a humanoid mushroom. He was already given the ability to use spores in Smash in one of Peach's moves, so why can't he use it in varying ways as a playable character?

And Captain Falcon was just a phyiscally strong man in a highly advanced race car, then in Smash he was included and was made a fast, agile athlete with the ability to use super power fiery burning and kicks. Giving him fire based powers is at least a bit more of a stretch than giving Toad the ability to use spores if you ask me. At least Toad was meant to be a humanoid fungi in the first place, while Capt. Falcon's powers came out of nowhere.

And what's wrong with Toad using items from NSMB games while said items could also be items in Smash? Mario and Luigi can throw fireballs and the Fire Flower is still an item that functions differently.

Captain Falcons moves are terribly basic, and he was a surprise. The Falcon Kick is reminiscent of a moving vehicle though, but that shouldn't count.

It's not that there's anything terribly wrong with it. It's just that adding different characters with unique inherent moves would be better.

Although, tbh, I'd think a character should represent themselves, and there's hardly anything that represents Toad as a character in using an item that basically anyone could use.

As for Toad using mushroom power ups, I'd be for it if Toad's role in mario games was handing out Mushrooms, but I don't think "he can do this because he's a mushroom" is a very creative or personal moveset. It's also why I'm doubting R.O.B.s return, since most of his moves are "he can do it because he's a robot."

Toad could work, but Waluigi or Baby Bowser, or a Koopa troopa, would work better.

 

[SchAlternate]

Starphoenix mentioned an underwater stage for Starfy... how would it work? The closest analogy I could think of is Hanenbow since it is underwater... well, it's supposed to be underwater...

I can imagine that stage being the only one were the "low gravity" effect is permanently turned on.

 

[Johnknight1]

Diddy Kong being 2nd party hurts a bit, but I think we can all agree that another DK rep was overdue.

Diddy Kong is 100% 1st party. Everything Donkey Kong-related is 1st party. The fact that you say otherwise about Nintendo's original big name IP is so wrong, that it is utterly wrong.

It's kind of funny though, Ice Climbers alone kind of murder a lot of BS arguments. They're not iconic characters, the game in question Ice Climber was critically panned and sold mediocre, the game has no significance to Nintendo, and the reason they got in was because of the gameplay potential that others couldn't emulate.

Not only that, but it was a poor take on the "climbing" platformer that had been done to death, and due to hardware limitations was awful up until around then.

The one NES game that got that whole "climbing" platformer right was Mega Man, which ultimately made people forget infinite climbing fest of stupidity that is Ice Climber.

 

[Arcadenik]

Waluigi, Baby Bowser, and Koopa Troopa? Really? For someone who insists on Grade-A characters, you sure have a knack for picking Grade-F choices.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Waluigi, Baby Bowser, and Koopa Troopa? Really? For someone who insists on Grade-A characters, you sure have a knack for picking Grade-F choices.

But people know about those and that's all that is important, you must include stuff that the filthy casuals general public will know about otherwise the universe will choke on a sticky bun.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Although, tbh, I'd think a character should represent themselves, and there's hardly anything that represents Toad as a character in using an item that basically anyone could use.

I doubt Sakurai thinks exactly the same thing, or possibly at least during Melee and Brawl's development. If he did then Ganondorf would be more than a Capt. Falcon clone. The only thing he uses that's truly comparable to Ganondorf's abilities in the Zelda games is the dark effect in some of his attacks, and he only showed such dark effects in Ocarina of Time IIRC, and even then he rarely used it.

As for Toad using mushroom power ups, I'd be for it if Toad's role in mario games was handing out Mushrooms, but I don't think "he can do this because he's a mushroom" is a very creative or personal moveset. It's also why I'm doubting R.O.B.s return, since most of his moves are "he can do it because he's a robot."

.

Are you saying R.O.B. could be cut simply because of his moveset?

That is by far one the worst reasons to cut a character. His moveset is still unique and R.O.B. has played a great role in Nintnedo's history.

 

[EddyBearr]

Diddy Kong is 100% 1st party. Everything Donkey Kong-related is 1st party. The fact that you say otherwise about Nintendo's original big name IP is so wrong, that it is utterly wrong.

I was told that Diddy Kong was owned entirely by Rare.

Waluigi, Baby Bowser, and Koopa Troopa? Really? For someone who insists on Grade-A characters, you sure have a knack for picking Grade-F choices.

I'm only talking about moveset potential.

*Bowser Jr, not Baby Bowser.

Waluigi and Baby Bowser are definitely "borderline" characters. I agree Koopa Troopa is grade F.

Isaac's inherent moveset potential is grade A+, while mario's is probably grade A-. Mario is still a far better character option because of other factors.

In terms of being Iconic, toad makes koopa troopa look like dirt.

I doubt Sakurai thinks exactly the same thing, or possibly at least during Melee and Brawl's development. If he did then Ganondorf would be more than a Capt. Falcon clone. The only thing he uses that's truly comparable to Ganondorf's abilities in the Zelda games is the dark effect in some of his attacks, and he only showed such dark effects in Ocarina of Time IIRC, and even then he rarely used it.

Are you saying R.O.B. will be cut simply because of his moveset?
That is by far one the worst reasons to cut a character. His moveset is still unique and R.O.B. has played a great role in Nintnedo's history.

I think the fact that so many characters have so many moves related to their character proves that Sakurai takes it into consideration. Variables can always make changes ,like justifying a mario clone (luigi) in SSb64.

It was my mistake to write that. I feel that we're going to get some cuts from Brawl, and I feel like out of all of them, R.O.B. has the highest chance (or competing with Snake for that dubious position.) Lack of a moveset that truly is his own is part of the reason, but I think the biggest reason would be lack of appeal.

 

[Arcadenik]

I can imagine that stage being the only one were the "low gravity" effect is permanently turned on.

I also think stages that take place in outer space could have low gravity effect too... Metroid stages, Star Fox stages, Mario Galaxy stages...

 

[Luco]

This is why when I think of clones, I think mostly of conceptual clones as opposed to mechanical clones.

Simultaneously, I try to think of Smash in the terms of a "Filthy casual" who sees some gameplay and decides if they want it. If a "filthy casual" sees a game is mostly "space animals" and "pretty boy swordsman princes," then they might not be as interested in it. Sure, Falco and Fox are massively different in Melee, especially in playstyles, but when you're thinking of a game where you have fire-breathing spiky-shelled turtles, hammer-swinging ice-creating 2-on-1 children, and an iron tailed electric mouse, then having two "human-like athletic space animals with laser + reflector," or two "bat-wielding psychic children," then it really stops being that different. Sure, competitive players will look at frame data, but casuals will not, and casuals are the bulk of any game.

Reminds me of my gf's younger brothers (one a child, one an upperclassmen in high school.) They both tend to say, "Fox/Ness is cool, but why do we basically have 3/2 of them?" Simultaneously, if bringing up Luigi vs Mario to them, they'd pretty much just respond, "but it's luigi!"

Ha, why do you refer to them as 'filthy'? Casuals, as you've said, are indeed the back-bone of any game. I would never dispute that. People like to say competitive players should get the preference but devs have to appeal to the greater audience. If that greater audience is competitive gamers (in the case of games such as Starcraft and DOTA/LoL) then that's great but in the case of a game like Smash then yea, casuals do end up having the devs hope they'll buy the game.

But in any case - I do agree in that to casuals it's not that different - but i'm thinking in the context of posters on smashboards, the site where people do distinguish that kind of thing. Also in the case of Lucas and Ness, they have the benefit of having entirely different smashes, aerials and so on. I've always been able to see the argument that they're clones but I don't agree with it that much. A clone should imply that they have the same playstyle and even casual players are more likely to choose one or the other than play both because "Lucas' up smash is really powerful" or "Ness' backward throw is awesome", you know?

When it comes down to it, I think casuals are more likely to see Lucas and Ness as clones - but I have met plenty that think they're not and would defend that to the death. If that's the case, then I think the argument that the term of 'clones' for some characters being fallacious is a rather valid one.

But to each their own. I only really disputed the notion in the first place because it was being used on a site where the players know the degree of differences between every character and any counterparts they may or may not have. ^_^

 

[Johnknight1]

I guess we're on the opposite ends of things then.

Depends which Falcondorf we're talking about. Melee Falcondorf is a nice start, but Brawl Rick Wheelerdorf is a joke.

Heck, Rick Wheeler in Brawl is a joke. BRING BACK THE REAL CAPTAIN JAY FALCON!!!

#FreeFalcon #Smash64Falcon #MeleeFalcon #BrawlFalconCanBurnInHell #SoCanBrawl

 

[EddyBearr]

Ha, why do you refer to them as 'filthy'? Casuals, as you've said, are indeed the back-bone of any game. I would never dispute that. People like to say competitive players should get the preference but devs have to appeal to the greater audience. If that greater audience is competitive gamers (in the case of games such as Starcraft and DOTA/LoL) then that's great but in the case of a game like Smash then yea, casuals do end up having the devs hope they'll buy the game.

But in any case - I do agree in that to casuals it's not that different - but i'm thinking in the context of posters on smashboards, the site where people do distinguish that kind of thing. Also in the case of Lucas and Ness, they have the benefit of having entirely different smashes, aerials and so on. I've always been able to see the argument that they're clones but I don't agree with it that much. A clone should imply that they have the same playstyle and even casual players are more likely to choose one or the other than play both because "Lucas' up smash is really powerful" or "Ness' backward throw is awesome", you know?

When it comes down to it, I think casuals are more likely to see Lucas and Ness as clones - but I have met plenty that think they're not and would defend that to the death. If that's the case, then I think the argument that the term of 'clones' for some characters being fallacious is a rather valid one.

But to each their own. I only really disputed the notion in the first place because it was being used on a site where the players know the degree of differences between every character and any counterparts they may or may not have. ^_^

I call them filthy because I've seen other SMB posters call them that (note Xenoblaze a few posts up.)

Tbh, Casuals know how to play a game with the best possible outcome. Us more competitive smashers have a nitpicking/perfectionist/overly-competitive problem.

Yeah, some more dedicated casuals might do that, or mother-archtype loving casuals (even casuals who don't know of the characters but think they're super cool.) But casuals who play yoshi because they love yoshi games, they'll look at Ness & Lucas and say, "wow, they're the same thing. Why isn't... Koopa Troopa there instead? (random example.)" At least, this is what most of the ones I've met have said.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Depends which Falcondorf we're talking about. Melee Falcondorf is a nice start, but Brawl Rick Wheelerdorf is a joke.

Heck, Rick Wheeler in Brawl is a joke. BRING BACK THE REAL CAPTAIN JAY FALCON!!!

#FreeFalcon #Smash64Falcon #MeleeFalcon #BrawlFalconCanBurnInHell #SoCanBrawl

I meant form the prospective of diversity. Ganondorf in general kind of feels like a missed opportunity when he's so heavily based on an unrelated character, but at the same time I wouldn't want him to be entirely focused on sword like others haves suggested because he's barely associated with swords anyway, and something tells me it wouldn't be as versatile considering we've already got Ike as the heavy swordsman. I would at least like some more changes to his normal attacks, with some more emphasis on evil magic.

 

[EddyBearr]

I meant form the prospective of diversity. Ganondorf in general kind of feels like a missed opportunity when he's so heavily based on an unrelated character, but at the same time I wouldn't want him to be entirely focused on sword like others haves suggested because he's barely associated with swords anyway, and something tells me it wouldn't be as versatile considering we've already got Ike as the heavy swordsman. I would at least like some more changes to his normal attacks, with some more emphasis on evil magic.

My idea of Ganondorf would be "Captain Zelda." Jab is fine, keep the wizard foot because smash. Other specials could be his attacks from 64.

Replace his up air, neutral air, and some tilts/smash with more magic minded stuff.

Hasn't he lit up like an electric eel in 64, making Mewtwo's nair from melee a good ganondorf nair?

 

[Johnknight1]

I hate Microsoft right now, and I'm never buying an Xbox One or Microsoft home console ever again. Apparently you have to pay for Xbox Live Gold to play games online now, whereas a few years ago you didn't need that. Because of that, I need to pay $5 a month to even play GTA V's online... like at all. On the PC or PS3, you get it for free.

Screw that, I'll save my $30-$60 a year and buy a Nintendo and/or Sony home console instead. I hope that this loses Microsoft a giant stash of money and loses the people who did this their jobs and wreck their resumes to where they can't land a decent job again.

Heck, I'm gonna dodge the PS4 because Sony is charging for their online too. I say that and I'm disappointed in the Wii U, although at least Nintendo is cheap as balls with me, and they show customer loyalty. As much as I throw mud at them for their stupid decisions, at least they don't screw over their fans like Microsoft (or even Sony sometimes).

Internet is already overpriced as hell in America, so why the hell would I want to pay for more=??? That's stupid.

I swear, Google Fiber-esk technology needs to nerf Internet prices already, and kill the need for things like XBL or PSN having fees. Crap is ridiculous. I get paying for the cloud or services like free cloud gaming, but it's gotten insanely expensive in a time where the world economy is tilting towards destruction, and the primary market (the USA) has a national debt that almost is equal to its' yearly GDP.

*reads thread*

Yeah...

I'm going back to Pokemon X.

Sorry I can't save this thread when the crazies are taking over and I'm not here. And the crazies are running rampant.

BTW, the Bowser Sibling team idea... not that bad of an idea. I don't think it'd work on Smash 3DS, but it definitely could work on the Wii U.

 

[Luco]

I call them filthy because I've seen other SMB posters call them that (note Xenoblaze a few posts up.)

Tbh, Casuals know how to play a game with the best possible outcome. Us more competitive smashers have a nitpicking/perfectionist/overly-competitive problem.

Yeah, some more dedicated casuals might do that, or mother-archtype loving casuals (even casuals who don't know of the characters but think they're super cool.) But casuals who play yoshi because they love yoshi games, they'll look at Ness & Lucas and say, "wow, they're the same thing. Why isn't... Koopa Troopa there instead? (random example.)" At least, this is what most of the ones I've met have said.

Hehe, the whole 'filthy casuals' thing is an old joke iirc. It originally came from those old threads where the OP would put out casuals and make them to be stupid and knowing nothing while thinking the competitive players should get everything.

Anyway, i've had quite an exposure to the casual community and noticed that it's not just the mother fans who do that. I actually ran a smash tournament at my school recently and most agreed when I put out that Ness and Lucas aren't that samey-samey. Then again, they might have just taken my word as a competitive player for it but meah. I've talked to a lot of people and it's not just a vocal few that seem to think it. Even when there are people that do think it, I usually point out differences in smashes and aerials and they say something along the lines of "Well yeah I guess so."

Ah well. As I said before, the main reason I put it out there in the first place is because it was being used on a board that generally accepts that they're not a cloney as people might think.

EDIT: Oh right I forgot to mention - it might be a difference in areas. I'm Aussie lol.

 

[SchAlternate]

I meant form the prospective of diversity. Ganondorf in general kind of feels like a missed opportunity when he's so heavily based on an unrelated character, but at the same time I wouldn't want him to be entirely focused on sword like others haves suggested because he's barely associated with swords anyway, and something tells me it wouldn't be as versatile considering we've already got Ike as the heavy swordsman. I would at least like some more changes to his normal attacks, with some more emphasis on evil magic.

Or give him a trident.

Both makes him more unique and pleases everyone who wanted a spear/lance/whatever user.

 

[Johnknight1]

I meant form the prospective of diversity. Ganondorf in general kind of feels like a missed opportunity when he's so heavily based on an unrelated character, but at the same time I wouldn't want him to be entirely focused on sword like others haves suggested because he's barely associated with swords anyway, and something tells me it wouldn't be as versatile considering we've already got Ike as the heavy swordsman. I would at least like some more changes to his normal attacks, with some more emphasis on evil magic.

Well Ganondorf is lackluster because unlike other clones, he didn't evolve in Brawl. Falco got a ton of cool new tools. Young Link became Toon Link, and got a very new style and a few new tricks. Luigi's physics became even more different from Mario, as well as having more differences between himself and Mario.

Ganondorf... got a new-ish side B. That's it.

Really, the fact that Ganondorf still doesn't use much dark magic (sans effects) or a sword (or swords) is just a terrible idea. I mean, he can still be a clone or "clone", but c'mon! Give him something unique. Give him a personal flare with some of his own moves.

MAKE HIM GANONDORF!!!!