Roster Prediction Discussion Thread

[Arcanir]

It has not been disproven.

Sakurai said there would be cuts in Brawl. He made a priority list knowing there would be cuts. Mewtwo was near the bottom.

One of the new pokemon with a much higher probability than Mewtwo was chosen to be on the roster. He was popular, he had a movie coming out, and his iconic B move was the same as Mewtwo. As a fighting/steel pokemon he could have had any B move. But that one was chosen. Now follow this.

Ike had a projectile for his B move. But Sakurai deemed it unbalanced for Ike's playstyle. So Ike took Roy's B move. But why would he do that when Roy was on the possible list? It could be that because Sakurai knew there were cuts, knew there was a time limit, and knew Roy did not have enough time to balance/flesh out.

Therefore, I believe Lucario was the replacement for Mewtwo wiiiiiith the possibility in the back of Sakurai's mind, that if he did indeed have time he would include Mewtwo. That still counts as replaced.

Replace: to put someone or something new in the place or position of (someone or something)

So while I see where you are coming from, I think you have to simply realize that people are going to feel that Lucario replaced Mewtwo whether you think that is true or not.

He said there would be cuts, but Mewtwo was not intentional. From what we've gathered, we know that he was the furthest along of the cut characters and even had his victory theme done before Toon Link and Wolf (who had none). Really, if Sonic wasn't brought in, he probably would've made it.

Lucario's Aura Sphere is one of his most iconic moves just like Mewtwo's Shadow Ball and Samus' Charge Shot. Ignoring that move would be like Jigglypuff without Sing, it's completely out of character for them to not have the move. Any similarity between that move and Mewtwo's (and Samus' for that matter) is completely coincidental.

Now you're reaching, just because he has a fire move doesn't mean he was intended to take it from Roy. Both characters have been associated with Fire in their games and the moves have mostly different properties outside of just being a chargable 'OMG, teh ph1r3!'

So all in all, no, I don't see where you're coming from. You seem to be trying to stretch the facts to fit what you want to be the situation. There's no good reason to assume that Lucario replaced Mewtwo because there's no backing to such logic.

With little to no search, I couldn't find a source, so I shouldn't say it as fact. That's been the common understanding for years, though. I'm sure the source is somewhere. Either way, my main point stands strong:

Mewtwo was always planned for Brawl, but was cut LATE in development (thus, proving he had priority) for reasons uncertain, and Lucario came to take his place as a Pkmn rep. IMO, Lucario could easily have started programming much sooner, but something stopped Mewtwo from getting in, which gave Lucario his chance. That's the way I see it.

I have to disagree, aside from what's already been said. It's pretty apparent that both had resources and planning put into each beforehand and on top of that, there's nothing to really lend to the idea that Mewtwo was cut for anything other then time constraints.

 

[BluePikmin11]

What would be your reaction if Pit had a ZSS-like transformation to Dark Pit.

 

[Autumn ♫]

What would be your reaction if Pit had a ZSS-like transformation to Dark Pit.

 

[Espio264]

What does Dark Pit offer that regular Pit doesn't give us?

Honest question, I've never played Uprising.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I'm crossing my fingers for Dark Pit, he would be a good third KI rep. And pretty good for a neat last semi-clone.

No.

 

[BluePikmin11]

What does Dark Pit offer that regular Pit doesn't give us?

Honest question, I've never played Uprising.

There's a bunch of weapons in Uprising that could make Dark easily differentiate from Pit.
He could use the Dark Pit Staff, Black Club, and the Darkness Bow for his normal attacks, but he's not a defensive character, more of a offensive character.

No.

Dark Pit could be alot funner than Medusa, the way I see it.

 

[Seraphim.]

What does Dark Pit offer that regular Pit doesn't give us?

Honest question, I've never played Uprising.

He uses different weapons than Pit, and he is able to fly without help (But iirc that was taken away from him.)

 

[LoneKonWolf]

What would be your reaction if Pit had a ZSS-like transformation to Dark Pit.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

At least Ninten would be more deserving and be much more unique.

 

[Arcadenik]

Asking for Dark Pit as a separate playable character from Pit is like asking for Fire Mario as a separate playable character from Mario. I just don't understand why palette swaps should be their own characters.

 

[N3ON]

Technically Dark Pit doesn't offer that much that Pit can't do, but both have so much potential it's not they'd be limited to similar moves anyway. That said, Dark Pit is fine as an alt. costume of Pit, there are better KI characters to be had.

Asking for Dark Pit as a separate playable character from Pit is like asking for Fire Mario as a separate playable character from Mario. I just don't understand why palette swaps should be their own characters.

Well Dark Pit is his own character, Fire Mario is just another version of Mario. It'd be closer to Dark Link or Samus. But I agree Dark Pit really doesn't need to be his own character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

At least Ninten would be more deserving and be much more unique.

What would Ninten do different?

Uprising has a big catalogue of weapons that could make Dark Pit easily different.
I could easily come up with an ideal moveset thanks to the catalogue.

Asking for Dark Pit as a separate playable character from Pit is like asking for Fire Mario as a separate playable character from Mario. I just don't understand why palette swaps should be their own characters.

Have you played Uprising?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

What would Ninten do different?

Uprising has a big catalogue of weapons that could make Dark Pit easily different.
I could easily come up with an ideal moveset thanks to the catalogue.



Have you played Uprising?

MOTHER has a huge catalog of PSI abilities including PK Beam which is unique to Ninten's game.

 

[Espio264]

Asking for Dark Pit as a separate playable character from Pit is like asking for Fire Mario as a separate playable character from Mario. I just don't understand why palette swaps should be their own characters.

Technically Dark Pit doesn't offer that much that Pit can't do, but both have so much potential it's not they'd be limited to similar moves anyway. That said, Dark Pit is fine as an alt. costume of Pit, there are better KI characters to be had.



Well Dark Pit is his own character, Fire Mario is just another version of Mario. It'd be closer to Dark Link or Samus. But I agree Dark Pit really doesn't need to be his own character.

^ This is how I've always felt on what I've known about the situation. And it applies to those who say Dr. Mario is still a viable option. Alternate costumes are the way to go.

That being said, is it the majority opinion that we're getting Wario in his classic outfit as opposed to the Warioware costume as the main Wario?

 

[Arcadenik]

Have you played Uprising?

Yes, I did and I beat the game last year.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Have you played Uprising?

I'm getting pretty damn tired of you constantly questioning what games I've played because I don't give in to your god awful roster decisions.

. And it applies to those who say Dr. Mario is still a viable option.

Dr. Mario has different clothing and a more unique persona. Dark Pit is just black Pit who gets in Pit's way.

 

[OcarinaOfDoom]

**** it. If Dark Pit support is a thing I'm supporting Dark Link.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Oi Vey, Good late afternoon all, hope you're all doing well as I sit here sleep deprived, taking care of my Grandparents is a pain in my ass. Anyways, what's new with everyone? The topic is KI and Dark Pit? Dark Pit's great...as an alternate color.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Dark Pit having different weapons means nothing. Sakurai didn't give a different move set to Wolf, Lucas, or Ganondorf. Why would he give a pallet swap a different move set?

 

[Arcadenik]

I see Dr. Mario as just Mario in his doctor's outfit and not a separate entity... it is like that troll on GameFAQs who insisted that Daisy in her sports outfit is a separate entity from from Daisy in her princess dress.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm getting pretty damn tired of you constantly questioning what games I've played because I don't give in to your god awful roster decisions.

I wasn't asking you.

 

[Espio264]

Dr. Mario has different clothing and a more unique persona. Dark Pit is just black Pit who gets in Pit's way.

You can make the case that the Warioware Wario has a more unique persona. It's still the same character in a different costume.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

I wasn't asking you.

IT WAS A DIRECT REPLY TO ME!!!!!!! Who the hell did you think you were asking???

 

[Arcadenik]

You can make the case that the Warioware Wario has a more unique persona. It's still the same character in a different costume.

I wish the Wario from Wario Land would replace the Wario from WarioWare in SSB4 but I doubt it would happen. I really don't like his moveset in Brawl.

IT WAS A DIRECT REPLY TO ME!!!!!!! Who the hell did you think you were asking???

Me.

 

[BluePikmin11]

IT WAS A DIRECT REPLY TO ME!!!!!!! Who the hell did you think you were asking???

Look:

 

[TheLastJinjo]

So, stop asking him if he's played uprising. Stop asking people what games they've played because they explain how illogical you're stupid choice is.

I'm pretty sure he has played uprising and that is why he knows why Dark Pit does NOT work.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So, stop asking him if he's played uprising. Stop asking people what games they've played because they explain how illogical you're stupid choice is.

I'm pretty sure he has played uprising and that is why he knows why Dark Pit does NOT work.

Any character can work actually. But just because he's a Dark iteration of Pit doesn't mean you immediately deny him. There's enough things in the game to make Dark Pit different.

 

[Gune]

Dark pit is boring Chariot master is waaaaaaaaay better, also anybody think dark pit sounded like Zuco from avatar?

 

[Espio264]

Any character can work actually. But just because he's a Dark iteration of Pit doesn't mean you immediately deny him. There's enough things in the game to make Dark Pit different.

You're always so optimistic and friendly, even when people are jumping up and down on you. Thank you for this. I'm gonna research some Dark Pit now.

 

[Arcadenik]

Any character can work actually. But just because he's a Dark iteration of Pit doesn't mean you immediately deny him. There's enough things in the game to make Dark Pit different.

So? Should we also make Fire Mario a separate character? There's so much you could do with fire flowers in Paper Mario games and Mario & Luigi games.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Ok guys, assuming Ridley is confirmed, how would you react if Dark Samus was confirmed?

 

[Rezzorect]

Mewtwo was planned to be in alongside Lucario in Brawl, it has unfinished data in the game. Lucario did not replace Mewtwo.

My apologies for the late reply.

I know that now. My bad

 

[Gune]

So, stop asking him if he's played uprising. Stop asking people what games they've played because they explain how illogical you're stupid choice is.

I'm pretty sure he has played uprising and that is why he knows why Dark Pit does NOT work.

Hey bro don't call blue's choices stupid that's mean, even if you disagree with her choices.

 

[Bowserlick]

He said there would be cuts, but Mewtwo was not intentional. From what we've gathered, we know that he was the furthest along of the cut characters and even had his victory theme done before Toon Link and Wolf (who had none). Really, if Sonic wasn't brought in, he probably would've made it.

If he had the most data, but was not included in the game then that was an intentional decision. Time restraints means a decision has to be made and that decision was intentional.

Lucario's Aura Sphere is one of his most iconic moves just like Mewtwo's Shadow Ball and Samus' Charge Shot. Ignoring that move would be like Jigglypuff without Sing, it's completely out of character for them to not have the move. Any similarity between that move and Mewtwo's (and Samus' for that matter) is completely coincidental.

I do not think it is coincidental, but only Sakurai really knows for sure. Perhaps, Mewtwo's Shadow Ball would have different stats.

Now you're reaching, just because he has a fire move doesn't mean he was intended to take it from Roy. Both characters have been associated with Fire in their games and the moves have mostly different properties outside of just being a chargable 'OMG, teh ph1r3!'

Both moves act the same with the instant death charge. But saying the move was taken from Roy is speculative. Ike did have his B move replaced. This we know. And if Roy's data file was around there is definitely motivation to take his move.
So all in all, no, I don't see where you're coming from. You seem to be trying to stretch the facts to fit what you want to be the situation. There's no good reason to assume that Lucario replaced Mewtwo because there's no backing to such logic.

I have to disagree, aside from what's already been said. It's pretty apparent that both had resources and planning put into each beforehand and on top of that, there's nothing to really lend to the idea that Mewtwo was cut for anything other then time constraints.

Priority was given to Lucario. So you can argue that Lucario was not cut for Mewtwo. I still disagree. But what is a fact is that Lucario had priority over Mewtwo (a veteran, non-clone character) to be added in the roster.

 

[BluePikmin11]

So? Should we also make Fire Mario a separate character? There's so much you could do with fire flowers in Paper Mario games and Mario & Luigi games.

He doesn't have much of a difference (Like different voice and personality), besides the fire concept is easily taken from Bowser and Charizard.

 

[Arcadenik]

He doesn't have much of a difference (Like different voice and personality), besides the fire concept is easily taken from Bowser and Charizard.

Sakurai doesn't care about voices and personalities.

Fire Mario doesn't breathe fire... so the concept is different.

 

[Hotfeet444]

Ok guys, assuming Ridley is confirmed, how would you react if Dark Samus was confirmed?

Death Match for the title of ultimate Metroid villain in the Pyrosphere. If Ridley loses, he has to patch the holes he made.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Any character can work actually. But just because he's a Dark iteration of Pit doesn't mean you immediately deny him. There's enough things in the game to make Dark Pit different.

And Sakurai will use none of them. There are plenty of things to make Ganondorf and Toon Link different and guess what: They didn't get them!

Move set isn't even the problem with this character, it's the fact that you have 2 characters that are just different colors! It doesn't matter what moves he has, HE'S A PALLETE SWAP! You really think that's the big character people want and would be hyped for? I mean just being the character is what's important to getting in, you can have the most potential move set ever, but if you aren't a unique and important character you aren't getting in. Sakurai would have to have eaten 5 bowls of cocaine and *********** pills to realize: "Hey! This is a really unique Nintendo character! He's bring a lot of diversity! He has teh muves so it doesn't matter that he's (already) a pallete swap. I should prioritize him first in a roster experiencing time constraints. Clearly bigger priority than Dr. Mario or Mewtwo!"

If fans REALLY want Dark Pit THAT badly they will be 100% fine with him being a pallete swap. It would make LITERALLY no difference at all.

 

[Bowserlick]

People do tend to like Dark-versions of characters. Sakurai should just have a Dark Character DLC package for $200 with black palette swaps of all the characters. He would make a fortune.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Hey bro don't call blue's choices stupid that's mean, even if you disagree with her choices.

It's not the fact that they are bad choices. It's the fact that she keeps acting like we lack knowledge of these characters and games because we don't agree with her. And after we all prove why these characters can't work, she still adds them and uses the same invalid defense before once again proceeding to ask us "Pffft! HAVE YOU EVEN PLAYED NINTENDOGS!?"

I'm only one of the many people to call a choice stupid, and one of the few to direct it to a choice that actually deserves it.