Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[N3ON]

As a matter of fact I will. Also I'm a bit confused I honestly thought the Pokemon trainer was there to represent every generation not just the most popular. Ie: generation1 is brawl, generation2 is (whatever the game will be called)

These guys are pretty popular I don't know what Pokemon trainer training to become a Pokemon master would keep the same Pokemon forever. I think they'll keep the trainer add different clothes plus those Pokemon no need for removal.

Well, I suppose I worded it poorly. I meant that the trainer himself aesthetically could represent any number of generations (depending on how many alt costumes they give him), but the Pokemon will always be the first starters, which will always be the most popular and iconic, and would have on average the most requests for the game (of starter Pokemon). But I see what you're talking about with different trainers (gen 1 starters in Brawl, gen 2 starters in SSB4, gen 3 in SSB5, etc.) it certainly is an interesting idea, but I doubt it will come to fruition. Not only will Sakurai have to implement 3+ new Pokemon characters in each game, but I doubt he wants to cut any unique semi-popular character, including past Pokemon Trainers. And I very much doubt he will have two trainers, equaling six Pokemon even without Pikachu and the rest.

Either way the Pokemon Trainer will be a great character. If Sakurai wants Charizard to stay, then let that trainer stay. I like the idea of another trainer with different pokemon. Maybe even split it up so every generation is represented by having a pokemon from gens 3,4, and 5. Wishful thinking probably.

I doubt Sakurai will be adding another Pokemon Trainer with 3 new Pokemon (from whatever gen) no matter how well it would represent one or multiple gens when he is probably making the priority keeping the four from Brawl, re-adding Mewtwo, and probably adding a new Pokemon. Even that might result in one of those not making it. Plus adding a new Trainer would be triple the effort of another newcomer, especially when Sakurai already has a perfectly good Trainer that he can just import and tweak.

I wish i knew how to make those roster pictures, because i would love to make one. After seeing some of the rosters in the thread, i've become rather impressed. However yours is probably closest to what i was thinking

Thanks. ^_^
Mine took some time with my (minimal) knowledge of photoshop, so I wouldn't recommend making one that way, but if you haven't already, I would definitely check out Jakor's roster maker. It's quite easy to use, and has a whole bunch of characters you can add.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=14277009#post14277009

 

[Inawordyes]

Guys, you hear? Megaman is 2nd party! That explain why he's never appeared on a Sony system!

How can he be 2nd party when he's owned by Capcom and has appeared on the PS2 and Xbox in Marvel vs. Capcom 2?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Cause he hasn't

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

A fat ugly Megaman was playable in the new Street Fighter x Tekken game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FwecG0-e0Y

In other news, thank you N3ON for the recommendation. This program is awesome!

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

ok, because I don't care anymore. Look at NinjaFoxx's comment

 

[JPW]

I have so much fun with that roster maker it's almost a daily habit of mine.

I remember having a laugh when they showed off Megaman for Streetfighter X Tekken. I wouldn't mind a Megaman like that in Brawl. But i believe we need a more traditional style Megaman kind of similar to the one we grew up with from the good old NES and SNES days.

 

[smashmanx7]

When I saw that Mega man I said oh I understand Capcom you want me to stop buying your games cause that was big **** you to the fans of megaman first they cancel two games now this.

 

[Deleted member]

....Even though Mega Man's creator was the one who wanted that Mega Man in the game, which was decided upon prior to the cancellations.

 

[N3ON]

If the other Megaman games hadn't been cancelled, BBAMM would've just been seen as a joke character (as he was meant to be) instead of a slap-in-the-face to Megaman fans. It was mostly just bad timing.

 

[Deleted member]

If the other Megaman games hadn't been cancelled, BBAMM would've just been seen as a joke character (as he was meant to be) instead of a slap-in-the-face to Megaman fans. It was mostly just bad timing.

It was definitely bad timing. In no way would this ever be a malicious attack on Mega Man fans, especially since this is Inafune's idea, you know, the one that the fanboys worship.

Speaking of which, the fanboys (basically anyone who considers Mega Man to be the greatest thing since slice bread) need to move on from all of this drama. I understand being upset at Legend 3's cancellation and Mega Man not being in Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 (I know I was disappointed at both circumstances), but I think these fanboys have taken it way too far. It almost makes me wonder "why do I associate myself with these people?" if they're going to complain about anything that isn't Capcom praising Mega Man as god. Briefly, these same fanboys even tried to get Capcom to sell the franchise to Nintendo or Inafune, which made me facepalm because not only will it never happen, it's also doesn't guarantee Mega Man gets a better future.

Hopefully, the 25th anniversary of Mega Man (which is suppose to start this year in December) will make the fans less rabid as well as a potential Smash Bros. appearance/new game.

 

[JPW]

I'm a fan of Megaman and i wasn't offended by Megaman in Street Fighter X Tekken. He's actually got a good moveset. And he's quite fun.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ SSBF
I think Mega Man fans would complain less if Bara Man was available on all consoles, wasn't on disc DLC, Capcom wasn't w***ing out all their IPs, and wasn't having all of their games dip in quality (save for maybe all Street Fighter-related games). Also, Capcom has lost quite a few good employees over the past few years.

If the other Megaman games hadn't been cancelled, BBAMM would've just been seen as a joke character (as he was meant to be) instead of a slap-in-the-face to Megaman fans. It was mostly just bad timing.

Yeah, it was terrible, terrible, terrible timing. If that was done say around the time of Mega Man 10's release (and the Mega Man Legends 3 announcement), people would be laughing, yet also excited for the future of Mega Man. But as it is, Capcom is dragging 2 of their 3 biggest IPs (Mega Man and Resident Evil) to the dump. Mega Man since after Mega Man 10's release, Resident Evil... since Resident Evil 5 dared to exist. I will never get over how over hyped that game was, and how the A.I. literally was brain dead. Also, Wes Welker (as I call him) should not have been in that game. That was the tackiest villain add-on of all-time, and made little sense.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

http://www.shacknews.com/article/74615/smash-bros-roster-may-have-reached-the-limit-of-whats#

this article worries me. i dont want an outrageously large roster, but i think at least 45 would be solid. kind of hoping he isnt insinutating what i think he is, as in that they are going to make the roster smaller, or keep it at 35. my ideal roster has about 44 characters in it. i hope that isnt impossible =(

 

[Deleted member]

No way are we getting a smaller than Brawl roster. That would drive consumers away. I bet on at least 44 characters in the next game (transformation included) and am expecting at least 48.

The limit he was referring to was this game anyway, not Brawl. There are still worthy additions to be made without having to cut anyone.

 

[BKupa666]

Indeed. People are entirely too pessimistic, just because gaming sites report on the quote, titling their articles "Sakurai Says No New Characters Will Be Added" in disgusting displays of sensationalism. And they call themselves journalists...

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

No way are we getting a smaller than Brawl roster. That would drive consumers away. I bet on at least 44 characters in the next game (transformation included) and am expecting at least 48.

The limit he was referring to was this game anyway, not Brawl. There are still worthy additions to be made without having to cut anyone.

This is pretty much what i thought. I didn't think that it would make much sense to make the game smaller. It's just that when i see an article, it gets me thinking. I would think that they would add at least 10 characters, giving us around 45 for the next game

 

[Supermario12]

That would be silly if there were no new charaters. I was maybe over thinking this haha bit when the Wii U comes out and this game, I was hoping there would be DLC's where we could get more charaters and stages, but maybe not haha

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

i would think that DLC would be ideal for a game like Smash, but i don't think Nintendo likes the idea of not having a complete game at release. For example, if Shulk doesn't get into the game, they could release a pack of Shulk, Zael (The Last Story), and Aeron (Pandora's Tower), and then a stage or two to go with them. I personally think it would be a good idea, but we'll how that turns out. Something is telling me that it wont happen. But we will have to wait and see =D

 

[N3ON]

The people who believe those articles are going to forget entirely about them anyway once we get a trailer with new characters.

As for DLC, I've said it before (maybe even in this thread), but if it's going to be used at all (which I think is a toss up ATM, and definitely isn't a priority for Sakurai right now) it will be reserved for popular veterans from previous games who didn't make it (if applicable), and partially programmed characters. I doubt the team making it (especially considering it's a third party developer making a first-party game, who will most likely move on soon after it) will create any characters afterwards for DLC.

 

[Johnknight1]

There is no reason for the roster to shrink, since literally Sakurai and co. can just copy all of the data from all the characters from Melee and Brawl, fix some frames, maybe given them a few new moves and animations, test them in new engines for these 2 games, and give them updated models (and new outfits?), and you are done.

With newcomers, you have to come up with the moveset, build it, test it much more diligently, design their model from scratch, design their new colors from scratch, and there is a much higher chance of things going wrong. Oh, and it is about 5 times as time consuming (based on my estimates) and 10 times as expensive (based on various business models).

So, what ultimately that means (in regard to what Sakurai is saying) is that the limit to newcomers added in a smash bros game has been reached. 17 newcomers were in Brawl (14 in Melee). Also, this probably means that the roster size increase has been reached. Melee had 14 more playable characters than Smash 64, and Brawl had 13 more playable characters than Melee. So, chances are, the most playable characters/newcomers we'll get will be 14 more playable characters and/or 17 newcomers. Sakurai, however, based on what he said, does not expect to reach either of those numbers. He expects less newcomers, and instead is focusing on fresh gameplay changes and fixes.

Really, if you thought about this beforehand and had a basic grasp on business financing, this wouldn't be "mind-blowing" news to you, but obvious information.

 

[MisterDrBob]

i would think that DLC would be ideal for a game like Smash, but i don't think Nintendo likes the idea of not having a complete game at release. For example, if Shulk doesn't get into the game, they could release a pack of Shulk, Zael (The Last Story), and Aeron (Pandora's Tower), and then a stage or two to go with them. I personally think it would be a good idea, but we'll how that turns out. Something is telling me that it wont happen. But we will have to wait and see =D

Yeah, Nintendo seems fairly reluctant to adopt DLC, but on the other hand, they're sticking their feet deeper in the whole online thing. New Super Mario Bros. 2 is a perfect example of that. And the reason it'll work for them is because it's Mario. I think if there were any game for them to try DLC on it would be Smash.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I think we will be getting new characters. There are plenty of characters still available and fit all of Sakurai's criteria.

However, when I read that article a while back, I didn't necessarily read it as "no newcomers". I got the idea that instead of just adding newcomers upon the pre-existing roster, they were going to overhaul the roster, remove characters, and replace them with newcomers. For example, replace the Ice Climbers with a retro newcomer, remove Ness or Lucas and add a new EB rep, etc.

I hope that never happens though.

 

[Deleted member]

I think we will be getting new characters. There are plenty of characters still available and fit all of Sakurai's criteria.

However, when I read that article a while back, I didn't necessarily read it as "no newcomers". I got the idea that instead of just adding newcomers upon the pre-existing roster, they were going to overhaul the roster, remove characters, and replace them with newcomers. For example, replace the Ice Climbers with a retro newcomer, remove Ness or Lucas and add a new EB rep, etc.

I hope that never happens though.

I'm really hoping that there are no cuts, ESPECIALLY not an overhaul. If the roster receives an unneeded overhaul, I am not buying the game. This isn't a Marvel Vs. Capcom 2 to 3 situation where the balance was so bad that one was needed.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I didn't really think it was "mind blowing". i've seen worse happen in video games before, which is why i brought it into this discussion. Obviously this would not be a good idea business wise. I am not a fool when it comes to this, believe me.

i wasn't concerned that they wouldnt add anyone, if they did that, there would be no point in a new game. What i was concerned about, if this were to actually happen, is that they would remove some of the good characters for no reason, and then add new ones to replace them, all while staying under 35 on the roster. This doesnt make sense to me, which is why i wanted to make sure i wasnt crazy and i posted this to see what you guys thought

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Yeah, the roster is fine as it is. I think character balance should be the buzz word for shaping the roster. Each character should play into strengths and weaknesses Of the other characters. While a 80+ roster would be both awesome and ridiculous, the character balance would be ****. I'd prefer a couple unique newcomers to provide for a interesting playstyle as opposed to a cluster**** of mediocre characters. I'd be content with 40-50 characters total.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, the roster is fine as it is. I think character balance should be the buzz word for shaping the roster. Each character should play into strengths and weaknesses Of the other characters. While a 80+ roster would be both awesome and ridiculous, the character balance would be ****. I'd prefer a couple unique newcomers to provide for a interesting playstyle as opposed to a cluster**** of mediocre characters. I'd be content with 40-50 characters total.

This. A satisfying roster of around 50 characters (transformation included) can easily be done and that's with no cuts.

- Brawl Roster
- Mewtwo
- Roy
- Toad
- King K. Rool
- Ridley
- Takamaru
- Little Mac
- Isaac
- Mega Man

48 characters. Would make for a great "condensed" roster.

 

[Supermario12]

The people who believe those articles are going to forget entirely about them anyway once we get a trailer with new characters.

As for DLC, I've said it before (maybe even in this thread), but if it's going to be used at all (which I think is a toss up ATM, and definitely isn't a priority for Sakurai right now) it will be reserved for popular veterans from previous games who didn't make it (if applicable), and partially programmed characters. I doubt the team making it (especially considering it's a third party developer making a first-party game, who will most likely move on soon after it) will create any characters afterwards for DLC.

Yeaaah i was thinking along the lines that in the DLC we would get some remasted stages from the N64 games, maybe a charater like Roy Mewtwo or pichu

 

[N3ON]

@SSBF
I'd honestly be very content with that roster. I know you're going for a "minimalist realistic" approach, but the only realistic addition I would make would be to add Palutena. It would still be under 50 characters though.

Yeaaah i was thinking along the lines that in the DLC we would get some remasted stages from the N64 games, maybe a charater like Roy Mewtwo or pichu

Yeah, I could see maybe one or two old stages being brought back as DLC, though I still think it's not a guarantee. They take alot less programming and data than characters, plus the old ones would probably be easier to make, as they have very few "gimmicks" on average compared to new ones. They'd probably sell well too (if they were popular old stages, like Hyrule Castle, Saffron City, Fountain of Dreams, etc.).

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

@SSBF
I'd honestly be very content with that roster. I know you're going for a "minimalist realistic" approach, but the only realistic addition I would make would be to add Palutena. It would still be under 50 characters though.

Yeah I agree. Palutena could easily make that list. As well, I would think that Isaac, Saki, or Shulk of being in Smash 4 has the Misc. franchise. All three have a fairly strong fanbase, uniqueness, and relevancy. I feel pretty sure that we will see at least one of them in the game.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Those are 3 I don't expect

I don't believe Palutena is going to get in either, but I can't say I wouldn't expect it

 

[N3ON]

Yeah I agree. Palutena could easily make that list. As well, I would think that Isaac, Saki, or Shulk of being in Smash 4 has the Misc. franchise. All three have a fairly strong fanbase, uniqueness, and relevancy. I feel pretty sure that we will see at least one of them in the game.

Well Isaac was on SSBF's condensed roster, but I agree that getting one of those three is very likely, even though I think Little Mac is the most likely "misc" character. I would be very happy getting either Isaac or Shulk (Saki would be cool too, and he definitely has a decent shot as well, I just personally prefer the other two).

Unfortunately I think getting more than one of those three will be unlikely (even though I have two of them on my prediction roster ), and getting all three (as awesome as that would be) won't be happening. Honestly I like all three more than Little Mac, but I won't begrudge him when he inevitably gets in over (probably) two of them.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

Well Isaac was on SSBF's condensed roster, but I agree that getting one of those three is very likely, even though I think Little Mac is the most likely "misc" character. I would be very happy getting either Isaac or Shulk (Saki would be cool too, and he definitely has a decent shot as well, I just personally prefer the other two).

Unfortunately I think getting more than one of those three will be unlikely (even though I have two of them on my prediction roster ), and getting all three (as awesome as that would be) won't be happening. Honestly I like all three more than Little Mac, but I won't begrudge him when he inevitably gets in over (probably) two of them.

Little Mac is a very strong contender in the next one, but I don't think he'll be regarded as a "Misc." character. (:

and honestly, I think Shulk has a really decent shot without hurting Saki/Isaac. With "Monolith Soft" becoming First Party, Shulk is basically at the same level as Mario and Link in terms of "Nintendo ownership", if I'm not mistaken. It wouldn't be a pain in the butt to "get permission" or anything. Nintendo just needs to say yes.

So I wouldn't say he takes away the spot from those two.

I think Saki and Isaac can battle it out for the spot as they stand. haha

 

[N3ON]

Little Mac is a very strong contender in the next one, I don't think he'll be regarded as a "Misc." character. (:

and honestly, I think Shulk has a really decent shot without hurting Saki/Isaac. With "Monolith Soft" becoming First Party, Shulk is basically at the same level as Mario and Link in terms of "Nintendo ownership", if I'm not mistaken. It wouldn't be a pain in the butt to "get permission" or anything. Nintendo just needs to say yes.

So I wouldn't say he takes away the spot from those two.

I think those Saki and Isaac can battle it out for the spot as they stand. haha

I just mean misc. to mean currently unrepresented, non-retro, non-3rd party series, like Olimar in Brawl. I didn't mean it to be a reflection of his chances. Sorry.

And I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought Sakurai will think something along the lines of, "Well I included Isaac/Saki/Shulk, so now I can't include the other two." I just think that Sakurai will give priority of inclusion to other characters, and in the end only use one (or maaaybe two) of them. They will all probably be considered in some stage of pre-planning, though this is just a guess.

You're right in that Shulk would probably be the easiest to use legally, but just because he's first party doesn't necessarily mean that Sakurai will choose him over a second party. Plus I doubt Sakurai divides his roster into allotted spots for first-parties and allotted spots for second-parties, but who knows.

 

[Onyx Oblivian]

[COLLAPSE="Expand"]I just mean misc. to mean currently unrepresented, non-retro, non-3rd party series, like Olimar in Brawl. I didn't mean it to be a reflection of his chances. Sorry.

And I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought Sakurai will think something along the lines of, "Well I included Isaac/Saki/Shulk, so now I can't include the other two." I just think that Sakurai will give priority of inclusion to other characters, and in the end only use one (or maaaybe two) of them. They will all probably be considered in some stage of pre-planning, though this is just a guess.

You're right in that Shulk would probably be the easiest to use legally, but just because he's first party doesn't necessarily mean that Sakurai will choose him over a second party. Plus I doubt Sakurai divides his roster into allotted spots for first-parties and allotted spots for second-parties, but who knows.[/COLLAPSE]

I get what you mean about unrepresented series (:

I guess his chances would depend on:

1. If Sakurai is interested of course.
2. If he feels that Shulk would be a viable "newest series" rep.
3. If he thoroughly enjoyed Xenoblade Chronicles

Less plausible but 4: Monolith Soft is asked to work on graphics/miscellaneous assets and they try to convince Sakurai themselves (:

I'm almost certain there will be trophies. Its all dependent on whether Sakurai feels that series deserves a character slot rep.

I think that's where he'll look at Xenoblade in a different thought process than say, Golden Sun or S&P.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Dillion would make an awesome new series rep and has more of the cartoony character feel I prefer to anime human characters

 

[N3ON]

@Onyx
Those are pretty good points, I def agree with them. I also have yet to meet someone that played through Xenoblade and didn't thoroughly enjoy it.

And yeah, even if Shulk doesn't end up playable, and even if we don't see a Xenoblade AT, I'm sure we'll at least get some trophies and music. Music is a must, no matter what.

And I think the first two points could also apply to Golden Sun or S&P, if Sakurai is interested in them and sense others' interest in them, and if he feels they would be good reps for new series. I wonder how much Sakurai's own personal opinions about games (other than ones he's made) effect the roster...

@Psycho
I agree, Dillon would be a cool character, I love his design and really hope The Last Ranger is a sequel to his game, but I'm not going to support him until his inclusion is at least a little warranted. If/when he gets a few more games, I'll definitely be jumping on the Dillon bandwagon.

Love to see him as an AT though.

 

[Johnknight1]

Shulk is 100% going to appear. His game is too popular, well-received, and Sakurai-ish to not have him appear in Smash Brothers. The question is will he be playable or not.

As for Paletuna. I've always felt the only Kid Icarus character we will get is Pit, dating back to the days of when most felt we would get 2 or 3 Kid Icarus playable characters Needless to say, I haven't changed my position. However, I do recognize Paletuna has decent odds. She will definitely, to some degree, be "considered" as a potential newcomer.

However, when I read that article a while back, I didn't necessarily read it as "no newcomers". I got the idea that instead of just adding newcomers upon the pre-existing roster, they were going to overhaul the roster, remove characters, and replace them with newcomers. For example, replace the Ice Climbers with a retro newcomer, remove Ness or Lucas and add a new EB rep, etc.

I've said it before, so I'll say it again: it is easier, less time consuming, and about 10 times cheaper to simply re-use something than to go out and create something from scratch. That is why the Brawl roster was smaller than the Melee roster: if it just kept all the Melee character data and improved upon the previous built characters. Add a few new frames, animations, and new attacks altogether here and there (and moreso with returning clones, obviously).

If this was done in Brawl, the budget would be lower, the roster would be larger, and the game would be more balanced. Fortunately, Namco Bandai and Sakurai have already imported the Brawl data into their early Smash WiiU and 3DS builds; it seems this mistake made in Brawl won't be made again. Quite frankly, there is no reason to remake Mario's neutral B again if it already looks as good as it will look, and the move isn't going to change. Instead, the focus will be on making new attacks, mostly for new characters.

 

[Deleted member]

@N3ON: Completely forgot about adding Palutena. She's one of the very few characters I would be surprised not to see.

 

[Supermario12]

Super Mario Series: Mario Luigi Peach Bowser
Newcomer(s): Paper Mario Toad Bowser Jr or King Boo

Paper Mario- I think hes the most logical choice to take the Mario slot. He wold help represent the series as a whole. His games are awsome to. Hes very popular as well, so i think he has the best shot

Toad- The only reason why I put Toad before Bowser Jr is for the pure fact that Toad has been around alot longer. Toad had been in pretty much every mario game. He was playable in Super Mario bros 2 and hes been playable as the 3rd and 4th chararter slots in the "New Super Mario Bros" games. So i could actually see him getting the spot

Bowser Jr/Shadow Mario- After his debut in Super Mario Sunshine, Bowser Jr has pretty much been in every single mario game has the secondary villian behide Bowser. So it would make alot of sense if he got the spot. Not only that, but if they give him his brush (which they should) then hes golden. NO CLONES. B and down he cold change to Shadow Mario, blah blah blah, what im saying is that he has potential

King Boo- You guys are probable reading this like "whaaaaaa? King Boooo?" but hear me out. Mario has his main villian Bowser has a rep, So why can't Luigi get his? its still part of the Mario series. Hes a major villian, was the main villian in Luigi's Mansion, and a new Luigi's Mansion is coming to the 3ds and who do you think the villian will be hmmm? King Boo would be a good way to not only rep mario, but the Mini Luigi's manison series, within the series!

 

[Johnknight1]

*waits to be right on the Palutena not being playable; also hopes Pit is changed a lot because he was boring in Brawl (and if not changed, cut)*

@ Supermario
The reason we're not going to get King Boo as a playable character anytime in the near future is because he doesn't seem like he has to offer as a playable character.

Characters are added (this is somewhat paraphrasing what Sakurai said) because they help "balanced out the roster" (which can be interpreted many ways), they are important to their franchises (ie: no minor characters, and for small series and 3rd party series, only the main character is playable), they have a lot to offer in terms of moveset and originality, they are either new, old, and/or popular, and they make you want to play the game.

Also, Shadow Mario has disappeared from Bowser Jr., so we're probably not going to get Shadow Mario. Plus, virtually no one likes the idea of them being a transformation duo. We've already played as Mario, Luigi, and Dr. Mario; we don't need another Mario clone (unless it's a semi-clone, and its' name is Paper Mario).

Bowser Jr. and Toad have decent odds, although part of that depends on who you ask.