Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[PsychoIncarnate]

I severely doubt sheik will be replaced

 

[Llumys]

I don't know.

Sheik has been in one game, and has been in Smash twice.

Impa's been in at least five games, has a similar appearance, could have a potentially identical moveset, and is an important character in the most recent instalment of the series.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't know.

Sheik has been in one game, and has been in Smash twice.

Impa's been in at least five games, has a similar appearance, could have a potentially identical moveset, and is an important character in the most recent instalment of the series.

Impa's been either a fat woman/ and old woman/ or a fat old woman in most of the games she's been in.

Having one game where she's not a fat old woman doesn't make her suddenly an excellent character

 

[Llumys]

Have you not seen her in Ocarina of Time?

... the same game Sheik's from...

Either way, I'll admit to that being a good point, but I just don't see why Sheik should return. I'm not convinced being in one or two instalments of the series merits a character inclusion in the next.

And it's not like the move set would be wasted or anything. It just makes more sense for a Skyward Sword Zelda to be tapping out with Impa. Yeah, yeah, Twilight Princess Zelda transforming into Sheik happened in Brawl, but honestly, **** that.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Have you not seen her in Ocarina of Time?

... the same game Sheik's from...

Either way, I'll admit to that being a good point, but I just don't see why Sheik should return. I'm not convinced being in one or two instalments of the series merits a character inclusion in the next.

And it's not like the move set would be wasted or anything. It just makes more sense for a Skyward Sword Zelda to be tapping out with Impa. Yeah, yeah, Twilight Princess Zelda transforming into Sheik happened in Brawl, but honestly, **** that.

She's got grey hair in ocarina of time. I always assumed she was an old woman

 

[Llumys]

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

She still looks pretty old to me. Maybe 30 in the youngest

She looks a lot older than

to be sure

 

[Opossum]

Sheik's here to stay. She essentially is Zelda. Why get rid of a Smash vet to replace her with someone who does the same things, but is a different person? Only bad things will come from it...


Boy, that was a flashback to the old thread.

 

[yani]

Impa's been in at least five games, has a similar appearance, could have a potentially identical moveset, and is an important character in the most recent instalment of the series.

/facepalm

Sheik is staying. Next topic please.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

So you'd replace a flash-in-the-pan with basically another flash-in-the-pan.

I know Impa has appeared in more games, but she's only really had a major role in one or two.

 

[Deleted member]

Originally Posted by Llumys
Impa's been in at least five games, has a similar appearance, could have a potentially identical , and is an important character in the most recent instalment of the series.

All the more reasons why Impa will not be replacing Sheik in Smash and why she is a terrible addition.

Discuss this instead, Ghirahim, who btw, is a much better choice.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

Cool, love to read it.



No third party character is guaranteed. Sakurai limits them pretty hard and may even be moving away from it. He's at the very least implied they are not going to be going crazy with them the next game. Also, Megaman is no where near Sonic popularity. Sonic didn't get in until the end of production.

you mean 2nd.
and he shoulda gone in and not sonic.

 

[Opossum]

Mega Man is 3rd Party, not second, Ninjafoxx

 

[NinjaFoxX]

pretty sure he started out as 2nd.

just sayian.

 

[FlareHabanero]

No, Megaman was always a 3rd party character.

 

[Opossum]

Capcom is a 3rd Party company.

 

[Deleted member]

Not too bad besides a few things. If it was 50 characters maximum who would u cut? I see Krystal leaving , especially if it is below 50.

Starfy. A protagonist of 5 games, last game released outside of Japan. Brings a unique playstyle. (Krystal could be unique) The Starfy series also brings the underwater element.

I'm gonna repeat what I've said before: Krystal with unique staff playstyle, awesome & Krystal with a recycled moveset, terrible waste of space. StarFox isn't a franchise that has had an impact on Nintendo either; I mean its last game was a remake.

6 games for 4 characters that share a similar playstyle, no thank u.

I'd say third-parties first, but given the positive comment in regards to Sonic and Snake that Sakurai gave a few days ago, I'll be keeping those since I now feel as those are almost guarantee a return. As for who I would remove if we had a 50 maximum character roster, I would axe Krystal, Samurai Goroh, and Saki Amamiya from this list. However, I feel as we'll be seeing a 51-56 character roster next time around and I do feel as those three have a good chance of getting in. Since I want this to be my last prediction roster before we get confirmed information on characters, those will remain.

Star Fox did have an impact on Nintendo; it was one of their first successful 3-D games (SNES version) and one of the first to use the Rumble with Star Fox 64. So it's not like it's a C-list franchise. But I will say this; I doubt Sakurai cares about how big the Star Fox franchise is, just the viable rep it has (which so far, looks only to be Krystal). If he feels that Krystal merits a spot, he will add her in and the size of the franchise won't stop him.

I could actually see no more than 50 characters being in smash 4. And there's a lack of Starfy on your list mister.

Barring the possibility that Sakurai has picked up a Starfy game, Starfy isn't getting in.

 

[DMurr]

I think it'd be awesome if they decided to put a Skyward Sword theme on the Zelda character selections, switching all the characters to that art style, with the characters being Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Impa and Ghirahim. Ganondorf could be designed based on Demise's appearance. I know all the opposition to removing Sheik, and she's pretty freaking awesome, but I think it'd be pretty cool to have a spiritual successor in Impa with a similar moveset. I guess it's not entirely logical to keep Ganondorf while removing Sheik, so I suppose Sheik could be updated to match Skyward Sword's design as well. Or Ganondorf could be replaced with Demise, but I think he has much more importance to the series than Demise.

That or they could create a new art style for them altogether.

 

[Deleted member]

I think it'd be awesome if they decided to put a Skyward Sword theme on the Zelda character selections, switching all the characters to that art style, with the characters being Link, Zelda, Ganondorf, Impa and Ghirahim. Ganondorf could be designed based on Demise's appearance. I know all the opposition to removing Sheik, and she's pretty freaking awesome, but I think it'd be pretty cool to have a spiritual successor in Impa with a similar moveset. I guess it's not entirely logical to keep Ganondorf while removing Sheik, so I suppose Sheik could be updated to match Skyward Sword's design as well. Or Ganondorf could be replaced with Demise, but I think he has much more importance to the series than Demise.

That or they could create a new art style for them altogether.

I think if they want to represent Skyward Sword (thought the best method is by some great music and a fantastic stage) through character, the best way to do it is by adding Ghirahim. Would MUCH prefer if they didn't touch anyone else on the roster.

 

[victinivcreate1]

This is my final prediction for this game and all slots are locked down. The only one that was difficult to leave behind was Saki, which if I were to add another slot, I would add him. Everyone else I have my reasons for adding or not adding them to the roster.

Also went through the prediction thread. Literally the only one that I felt who's roster didn't have any scenario that was almost guarantee to not happen was ---'s roster, which is something I can't even say for N3ON and Starphoenix's roster (though they came very close but each had one thing that really keep me from adding them to the list). Not saying that all other prediction rosters are bad as there were some seriously good prediction rosters, but I think the final roster could very well end up being similar to ---'s roster (I'd say mine as well, but I'm biased and have changed my prediction roster a ton over the past year and two months).

...then again, no one is going to guess this roster correctly, though if I'm wrong and someone in the roster display thread does get it 100% right, then I think they deserve to be honored for such accuracy for the rest of Smash speculation history.

where's victini, and i really think ghirahim has a good chance, it was in the ssb universe leak krystal makes sense but is dead and i never liked her. its been 7 years since she was on a video game.

 

[Deleted member]

where's victini, and i really think ghirahim has a good chance, it was in the ssb universe leak krystal makes sense but is dead and i never liked her. its been 7 years since she was on a video game.

Ghirahim could go either way. Given his importance to the series (basically being the reason why we have Ocarina of Time and all those Zelda game in the first place), I think he'll be under consideration for a playable spot. However, he is one-shot, which keeps me from adding him. But we'll see. BTW, the SSB Universe leak is false, erase it out of your memories.

Relevance... really doesn't matter. Sakurai hasn't spoken about it, so it's best not to use it when discussing characters. Star Fox also isn't "dead", it just got a remake.

As for Victini, it fails all four Sakurai criteria, so I am willing to bet against it's inclusion. Also that a Pokemon newcomer isn't exactly the guarantee people make it out to be.

Edit: That roster is old. Check my roster in the prediction display for my current one. It drops Toad and Mii and adds Sonic, Snake, and Saki Amamiya.

 

[N3ON]

where's victini, and i really think ghirahim has a good chance, it was in the ssb universe leak krystal makes sense but is dead and i never liked her. its been 7 years since she was on a video game.

Goroh's on that roster too, and he hasn't appeared in a game for 8 years, as opposed to Krystal's 6. The character having popularity and a relatively large role in the series outweigh recent appearances as far as Smash inclusion goes.

Plus Victini's not getting in, you might as well not get your hopes up and stop using that as a negative point against rosters that don't have him.

 

[JPW]

also knowing how many Pokemon games they make there could be a new one out before Smash Bros. and who knows they might end up giving us a character from there.

also years got nothing to do with it....

Before Melee when was the last time we saw Mr.Game and Watch.

Before Brawl when was the last time we saw R.O.B.?
When was the last time we saw Pit?

What about Ness and Lucas? I thought earthbound was discontinued yet they still have them there.

Ice Climbers haven't had a game in 2 decades.

 

[Johnknight1]

Zant 2.0 (now without a mask and with a feminine personality)... I mean, Ghirahim... I wouldn't book it. I'd actually be willing to bet against said character being playable. If we were to get any new playable Zelda character, it would probably be either Toon Zelda (with Toon Tetra?) or a Zelda character who will appear in the next WiiU or 3DS Zelda game. Skyward Sword will be 3-5 years old by the time Smash WiiU and 3DS come out in my estimation. That's noticeably older than Twilight Princess was when Brawl came out.

Sakurai likes them big stages, New Pork, Temple, Mario Bros. Arcade, 75m. These stages never got picked whenever i played... never, along with Flatzone 2.

I will say that Temple is a rather fun stage to play on. It's got all kinds of epic parts to play on. Fourside is nice, too. Poké Floats is an underrated stage. Mute City is LEGENDARY!!! Mario Circuit is pretty fun. Norfair is also fairly awesome. Port Town Aero Dive is sweet (when you nerf the damage of the vehicles). Skyworld is fun (especially if you play the Project M version, where the platforms don't break!) The rest of the large stages in Melee and Brawl sucked though IMO! However, nearly all of the Smash 64 stages were rather large. Most of them were rather good (Yoshi's Island 64 was terrible though IMO).

Not to mention Sakurai picked out the most casual and banned stages from SSBM for returning Melee stages.

The past stages in Melee Sakurai and co. picked out pretty well, minus Yoshi's Island 64. Peach's Castle 64 or Hyrule Castle would have been better picks (over Yoshi's Island 64).[COLLAPSE="In Brawl, about half the past stages were good picks, while the other half or so of the other past stage picks were bad picks..."]-Rainbow Cruise was the best Mario stage, easily. Princess Peach's Castle was too big. Mushroom Kingdom was terribly designed. Mushroom Kingdom II was fairly awkward to play on.
-Jungle Japes as the Donkey Kong stage... eh. I would have preferred Kongo Jungle, but it's hard to find fault in this choice. Both stages are about equally as good (not great) in terms of design, fun, and appeal. There was simply no wrong choice of Donkey Kong franchise Melee stage IMO in this decision.
-Hyrule Temple was probably the best Zelda stage in Melee. This is mostly because of Termania: Great Bay's lame edges. It also is a fan favorite (for huge fights).
-Brinstar was easily the right Metroid stage because of how God awful Brinstar Depths is (and I'm glad Brinstar Depth's AMAZING SONG stayed!!!)
-Yoshi's Island (Melee) should not have been the Melee Yoshi stage in Brawl over Yoshi's Story. Someone with serious brain damage must have chosen it over Yoshi's Story.
-Green Greens is an underrated stage. However, there is no way it should have been playable over Fountain of Dreams, which is one of the best smash stages ever!
-Corneria was easily the right Melee Star Fox franchise stage. Venom is just dreadful to play on.
-Pokémon Stadium (1) was the right past Pokémon stage for Melee. Poké Floats is a fun stage, but Pokémon Stadium is just simply a superior stage (design).
-Onett getting over Fourside... eh. It could go either way. I like Onett more, but if Fourside was chosen, I don't think anyone would be terribly upset. Both stages are good (not great), so I don't think anyone can really fault whoever chose this stage.
-Big Blue was without a doubt the worst choice of stages. Not just do you fight the stage more than the opponent on this stage, but possibly the most bad a** stage EVER in smash bros could have been chosen instead. Big Blue just simply is a terrible idea, boring to play on, and no fun. Mute City is the exact opposite choice. Whoever made this decision should never decide returning stages for any franchise for anything ever again. That is unless this person had their head beaten with a mallet a few thousand times before this dreadful decision that quite frankly 99% of smashers could agree was THE WRONG DECISION!!![/COLLAPSE]

I hope that whoever is in charge of making the roster focuses on adding reps to series that are currently under represented or have no reps at all.

That's all fine and dandy, as long as those characters are THE ABSOLUTE BEST CHARACTERS TO ADD! Also, we play as characters, not franchises. As great as Metroid is, nobody wants another character if that character is crap (like a freaking Metroid).

 

[Deleted member]

also knowing how many Pokemon games they make there could be a new one out before Smash Bros. and who knows they might end up giving us a character from there.

also years got nothing to do with it....

Before Melee when was the last time we saw Mr.Game and Watch.

Before Brawl when was the last time we saw R.O.B.?
When was the last time we saw Pit?

What about Ness and Lucas? I thought earthbound was discontinued yet they still have them there.

Ice Climbers haven't had a game in 2 decades.

If the Pokemon Company is interested in advertising the latest gen (which we can't say for sure, given that there is no proof that they've done so before), they'll go with Gen 6. If we get a Gen 5 (which right now seems more likely and it would be either Zoroark or Genesect), it will be because of their popularity within the Pokemon and Smash community, similar to how I think Lucario got in.

 

[SmashChu]

you mean 2nd.
and he shoulda gone in and not sonic.

Should of, could of, would of. Fact is Sonic's popularity put him in but even he was met with barriers. The hurdle is high and all of the third party suggestions do not have a lot to met said hurdle. Expecting one is bad news. Especially when Sonic dominated polls. Megaman usually does just as well as everyone else.
And No, I mean third.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah, SmashChu is right. Sonic is amongst the most popular 3rd party video game characters ever, and was easily the most demanded 3rd party character amongst smash fans. However, that doesn't diminish the demand for other 3rd party characters this time around. Mega Man still is fairly popular among smash fans. He is easily among the top ten most wanted newcomers for Smash WiiU and 3DS among smash fans (in my estimation). Mega Man would also easily work in smash. In fact, it would require minimal effort (and a lot of potential different moves). You could go a lot of "different" ways with Mega Man, and each option could be great. This unlike characters that require more time effort (itbrawl:, :icsbrawl.

Let's just hope if Mega Man is playable, minimal amounts of his moveset is inspired by his Marvel vs. Capcom 2 appearance!

@ SSBF
By the time the roster is selected, Generation VI won't even be fully finished. Actually, by the way things look, we'll get Smash 6 (and 7) (because one of these 2 forthcoming games is Smash 4, while another is Smash 5) when Generation VII is as fresh as Generation IV was when Brawl was released.

 

[Deleted member]

@Johnknight1: The Pokemon Company plans very well ahead of time. Gen 2 Pokemon started to appear early on in the first gen. I would say that they came up with the mascot for the 6th gen early on this gen and as such, would be able to suggest it to Sakurai if they wanted to develop it.

 

[SmashChu]

@Johnknight1: The Pokemon Company plans very well ahead of time. Gen 2 Pokemon started to appear early on in the first gen. I would say that they came up with the mascot for the 6th gen early on this gen and as such, would be able to suggest it to Sakurai if they wanted to develop it.

This is all conjecture and we are talking about a character that may not even exist at this point. Seeing as Sakurai picks the roster very early on, it would be doubtful at best we'll get the 6th gen rep.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I feel like for pokemon, it may be a more clever idea to change the current pokemon trainer to a trainer with 3 new pokemon in order to represent the newest generation. And then have either Mewtwo or Lucario (preferably Mewtwo) as the other rep. However i feel like it would be nice to have a rep from the 4th rep instead of 3 from the first gen, so Lucario would be a better pick. I don't know...

I'm still pulling for DLC. That way characters could be added every few weeks or something, and there would be more possibilities for characters. So that way, Mewtwo could be dlc if he isnt in the game as part of a pck or something. I can dream, right guys?

 

[N3ON]

The Pokemon Trainer isn't there to represent the newest gen, or else he would've had gen IV starters in Brawl. The Pokemon Trainer is there to represent the most popular, well-known, original starters.

The Pokemon Trainer in SSB4 will either have the same Pokemon or not be there at all. You can quote me on it.

The only way I can see DLC being implemented is on already existing characters in previous Smash games or partially programmed characters, if it's implemented at all.

 

[Deleted member]

This is all conjecture and we are talking about a character that may not even exist at this point. Seeing as Sakurai picks the roster very early on, it would be doubtful at best we'll get the 6th gen rep.

To be fair, you are right about the chances of a 6th gen being low, that I won't deny (though I think it has more to do with a 5th gen Pokemon (most likely Zoroark) having more merits for inclusion than a 6th gen mascot not existing). All I'm saying is that if they were to include a promotional Pokemon, it would be from the 6th gen.

And no, I do not consider Lucario a "promotional" Pokemon, given that we don't know the details behind his inclusion. I also would not consider Zoroark, Genesect, etc. to be a "promotional" character if they got in.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The Pokemon Trainer isn't there to represent the newest gen, or else he would've had gen IV starters in Brawl. The Pokemon Trainer is there to represent the most popular, well-known, original starters.

The Pokemon Trainer in SSB4 will either have the same Pokemon or not be there at all. You can quote me on it.

The only way I can see DLC being implemented is on already existing characters in previous Smash games or partially programmed characters, if it's implemented at all.

I'm not saying that they should do that, but rather that it could be a possible idea. Believe me, i like the 3 pokemon the trainer has now. With that said, i dont necessarily think its out of the question that he COULD be changed. And btw N3ON, i really like your roster in the display thread, besides 1 or 2 characters. Very nicely made!

 

[N3ON]

I'm not saying that they should do that, but rather that it could be a possible idea. Believe me, i like the 3 pokemon the trainer has now. With that said, i dont necessarily think its out of the question that he COULD be changed. And btw N3ON, i really like your roster in the display thread, besides 1 or 2 characters. Very nicely made!

I suppose technically it would be a good way to represent a gen, as there would be three Pokemon plus the main trainer from it, but honestly I can't see it happening, even in DLC. I can't really speak for what they might do with the 6th gen, but I also don't think we're going to get much if any 6th gen content in SSB4. For 5th gen, I think anything other than Zoroark is unlikely. But you're right, as long as it isn't impossible (which it isn't) it still could happen, though I wouldn't count on it.

And thanks for the roster praise! ^_^
I've got it to a point where I think I'm finally going to stick with it and not make any changes and see how close it gets to the actual roster.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I have a feeling that the Pokemon Trainer will come back, but be altered with a new appearance and Pokemon. Hypothetically, ether a Gen 2 or Gen 3 variation.

 

[smashmanx7]

The Pokemon Trainer isn't there to represent the newest gen, or else he would've had gen IV starters in Brawl. The Pokemon Trainer is there to represent the most popular, well-known, original starters.

The Pokemon Trainer in SSB4 will either have the same Pokemon or not be there at all. You can quote me on it.

As a matter of fact I will. Also I'm a bit confused I honestly thought the Pokemon trainer was there to represent every generation not just the most popular. Ie: generation1 is brawl, generation2 is (whatever the game will be called)

These guys are pretty popular I don't know what Pokemon trainer training to become a Pokemon master would keep the same Pokemon forever. I think they'll keep the trainer add different clothes plus those Pokemon no need for removal.

Now for other generation Pokemon that are popular they'll probably be the lucario or mewtwo in the series only appearing once or twice here or there

...... I'm not sure if I'm agreeing or disagreeing with you now that I think of it oh well.

 

[DMurr]

They could add another Pokemon Trainer-type character dubbed "Pokemon Rival" and make it look like one of the female trainers.. or I guess one of the other male trainers as well. Then it could have any of the pokemon starters. I think either the Generation 2 or Generation 3 starters are still better choices than the other two. Gen 2 could have Chikorita, Quilava and Feraligatr, and Gen 3 could have Mudkip, Grovyle and Blaziken. The Generation 3 starters, I think, are the better option, although it really doesn't matter. I read somewhere that Sakurai really likes Charizard and wanted to put him in the game since 64, but it didn't make sense until he put in the trainer in Brawl (which is also something he'd apparently wanted to do for a while also). I read it in one of the links in the resources thread.

Honestly, I think that the best option for a new Pokemon trainer would be to pick an actual opponent character such as N or Cynthia. Cynthia's pokemon could be up in the air, but N's pokemon would be obvious. I have this idea in my head of him being with both of the legendaries (Reshiram/Zekrom) like Pokemon Trainer, but you can't switch between the Pokemon.. since in the games he only has one of them, but how would you choose which you got? They could be semi-clones of each other.

 

[Johnknight1]

The only changes we'll get to the Pokémon Trainer (at least hopefully) will be different Trainers (as in appearances; like having May as the trainer, but the same Pokémon) and actual color changes for the skins of the Pokémon (and skin color changes for Sonic). The Mewtwo/PT/Sonic "color change" effects mostly look cheap, tacky, and stupid.

@Johnknight1: The Pokemon Company plans very well ahead of time. Gen 2 Pokemon started to appear early on in the first gen. I would say that they came up with the mascot for the 6th gen early on this gen and as such, would be able to suggest it to Sakurai if they wanted to develop it.

Generation I originally was going to have 190 Pokémon; not 151. Many of the "left over" Pokémon were carried over to Generation II. 1:20-1:52 of this video explains this.

You must remember that the idea of "Capsule Monsters" (as it was one time referred to as) dates back to the late 80's, and most of the early Pokémon were done. Now, literally 100-150 or so must be made in 4 years. So, putting them "in advanced" before they are finalized like you suggest... is a bit much. The Pokémon Company likes to work ahead, but not THAT ahead. You need to finalize the designs, make sure everything matches up, and makes sure you get their bios, types, and attacks down first my smash brothah!

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I suppose technically it would be a good way to represent a gen, as there would be three Pokemon plus the main trainer from it, but honestly I can't see it happening, even in DLC. I can't really speak for what they might do with the 6th gen, but I also don't think we're going to get much if any 6th gen content in SSB4. For 5th gen, I think anything other than Zoroark is unlikely. But you're right, as long as it isn't impossible (which it isn't) it still could happen, though I wouldn't count on it.

And thanks for the roster praise! ^_^
I've got it to a point where I think I'm finally going to stick with it and not make any changes and see how close it gets to the actual roster.

Either way the Pokemon Trainer will be a great character. If Sakurai wants Charizard to stay, then let that trainer stay. I like the idea of another trainer with different pokemon. Maybe even split it up so every generation is represented by having a pokemon from gens 3,4, and 5. Wishful thinking probably.

I wish i knew how to make those roster pictures, because i would love to make one. After seeing some of the rosters in the thread, i've become rather impressed. However yours is probably closest to what i was thinking

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Guys, you hear? Megaman is 2nd party! That explain why he's never appeared on a Sony system!