Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[DarkSouls]

Adam's too big (of a douchebag) for Smash.

He'd obviously be a clone of Samus (because the only moveset he could have is ordering her around).

 

[Oasis_S]

Oh, he could be in the background for Samus like Pokemon Trainer then.

 

[DarkSouls]

Oh, he could be in the background for Samus like Pokemon Trainer then.

Yeah, but his version of Samus would obviously have a 1:9 matchup against Ridley.

 

[jigglover]

So Treeko, Cumbusken, and Swampert? I mean, let's face it, a Blaziken will most likely be a Pokémon version of Captain Falcon, unless they get rather creative with it. I can see its Up B being Sky Uppercut or something.

Torchic, Marshtomp and Sceptile for me. Just saying, the original line-up kind of screwed things up, a bulbasaur, charmeleon and blastoise would've been better in the first place...

For the critics out here, Torchic could use its hand/claw moves by jumping to it's side and using his claw-like feet much like rob and his blaster.

Ridley thats all I am going to say

For god sake. Being logical here, RIDLEY CAN NOT GET IN. A few reasons:
1) He's too big, the may have made olimar bigger to make it fair, but a shrunk down Ridley would just be weird.
2) WHAT THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO DO! Shoot fireballs for nuetral B, Charizard-like recovery... maybe a warlock kick with its tail. NO! Nintendo isn't that creative, you'd know that if you played brawl.

 

[Deleted member]

Going to bring up Genesect as a possible candidate since he was revealed early this month.

Do you think that he could end up being the 5th gen rep (assuming we get one) over Zoroark (or Meloetta/Victini if you think they have much of a shot)? I think the possibility is there since he does have the potential to be a highly requested character and beat Zoroark in that, but I think we'll have to see.

^Pichu disagrees. also Pichu was gthe poke I believe got in by request, but not to promote GSC it was because it was masuda's favorite Poke at the time.

No it got in because Sakurai wanted a joke character in Smash and Pichu fit the bill. It had nothing to do with Junichi Masuda wanting one at the time.

 

[jigglover]

Going to bring up Genesect as a possible candidate since he was revealed early this month.

Do you think that he could end up being the 5th gen rep (assuming we get one) over Zoroark (or Meloetta/Victini if you think they have much of a shot)? I think the possibility is there since he does have the potential to be a highly requested character and beat Zoroark in that, but I think we'll have to see.

Do you think that there'll be a rep for each generation so far (not including GSC, it's basically Gen 1 with a few improvements) So Pikachu, gen 3 (hoenn pokemon trainer maybe,) lucario and, finally, zoroark/genesect. If it wants to include GSC, then bring back jigglypuff in place of it, since it was in the original game. Also for gen 3, I think it should be the plusle and minun duo we've been waiting for since we discovered it in brawl's programming. If you're unfamiliar, it would be ice-climber like, not two seperate characters.

I'd also like to point out the use of luigify here, luigify is where a character is a (semi)clone in one game, and not a clone in the next. So we can't have a luigified Blaziken in SSB4 since he was not in the game before.

Can someone tell me why people are putting more than 4 pokemon in their "realistic" rosters. We all know that each game only has 4 representatives. The only way you will get mewtwo is if he is partnered with a pokemon conquest character. Ex. Yoshi is considered to be part of the yoshi story brand not mario

They put Yoshi in the yoshi brand because they want/need more than 4 mario reps (not dissing yoshi or anything, he's my main after-all) dk and dk are meant to be in the dk series, but really they're both mario too, and wario, FOR GOD SAKE! WARIO-WARE IS A SPIN OFF OF MARIO!!! There you go, more pokemon please? Pokemon's as big, if just minorly smaller, than mario anyway, it's got more characters too (even though that's implied for its genre.)

 

[FlareHabanero]

Genesect is more like a flavor of the month type character in a similar vein to previous legendary Pokemon. Don't expect Genesect unless you love to be dissapointed.

But I will say that Genesect is a great Pokemon in the games. It's a really great user of Choice Scarf in particular thanks to STAB U-turn and Download.

 

[Opossum]

For god sake. Being logical here, RIDLEY CAN NOT GET IN. A few reasons:
1) He's too big, the may have made olimar bigger to make it fair, but a shrunk down Ridley would just be weird.
2) WHAT THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT HIM TO DO! Shoot fireballs for nuetral B, Charizard-like recovery... maybe a warlock kick with its tail. NO! Nintendo isn't that creative, you'd know that if you played brawl.

It was only a matter of time before these people came here...


You know what? I'm too tired to argue. Someone else show this guy how wrong he is. Do us all a favor. Head to the Ridley thread. Read it. Be enlightened.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Here's a massive character size comparison image that I did up. Most Brawl models are set at a 1x scale, but some have been rescaled to be more suited for being playable.

[collapse=Size Comparison]Models Used
*Donkey Kong (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Bowser (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Ridley (Brawl) - 0.4x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Mewtwo (model hack) - 1.5x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Palutena (model hack) - 1.35x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Ganondorf (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Emboar (PokePark 2) - 2x scale; Translation Y: 0.4
*Rosalina (Peach vertex hack) - 1.2x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Captain Falcon (Brawl) - 1.05x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Samus (Brawl) - 1.015x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Charizard (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Samurai Goroh (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Ike (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Wolf (Brawl) - 1.28x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Zero Suit Samus (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Zelda (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Pit (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Peach (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Zoroark (PokePark 2) - 1.2x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Lucario (Brawl) - 1.05x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Saki (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Fox (Brawl) - 1.08x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Isaac (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Yoshi (Mario Party 9) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Sonic (Brawl) - 0.97x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Little Mac (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Bowser Jr. (Mario Party 9) - 1.2x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Mario (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Diddy Kong (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Classic Wario (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Ness (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Oshawott (PokePark 2) - 0.8x scale; Translation Y: 0.05
*Squirtle (Brawl) - 1.03x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Kirby (Brawl) - 0.96x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Bandanna Waddle Dee (Kirby's Return to Dream Land) - 8.8x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Starfy (Brawl) - 1.5x scale; Translation Y: 0

Note: The image is very wide, so you'll have to click on it for a larger revision.

[/collapse]

 

[Deleted member]

Do you think that there'll be a rep for each generation so far (not including GSC, it's basically Gen 1 with a few improvements) So Pikachu, gen 3 (hoenn pokemon trainer maybe,) lucario and, finally, zoroark/genesect. If it wants to include GSC, then bring back jigglypuff in place of it, since it was in the original game. Also for gen 3, I think it should be the plusle and minun duo we've been waiting for since we discovered it in brawl's programming. If you're unfamiliar, it would be ice-climber like, not two seperate characters.

As far as I'm concern, having all 5 (or 6) gens it out of the realm of possibility. Sakurai has given no indication that he cares about generational representation (that being all generation gets repped with playable characters), especially giving what happened with Gen 3. Heck, if there were only one Pokemon additions in Melee and Brawl, Mewtwo and Pokemon Trainer would have gotten priority over Pichu and Lucario (See this).

The only generations that has a significant chance of getting a rep this game are 1 (shoe-in), 4 (likely, due to Lucario), and either 5 (Zoroark and maybe Genesect) or 6.

 

[Oasis_S]

Here's a massive character size comparison image that I did up. Most Brawl models are set at a 1x scale, but some have been rescaled to be more suited for being playable.

[collapse=Size Comparison]Models Used
*Donkey Kong (Brawl)
*Bowser (Brawl)
*Ridley (Brawl)
*Mewtwo (model hack)
*Palutena (model hack)
*Ganondorf (Brawl)
*Emboar (PokePark 2)
*Rosalina (Peach vertex hack)
*Charizard (Brawl)
*Samus (Brawl)
*Captain Falcon (Brawl)
*Samurai Goroh (Brawl)
*Ike (Brawl)
*Zero Suit Samus (Brawl)
*Zelda (Brawl)
*Pit (Brawl)
*Peach (Brawl)
*Zoroark (PokePark 2)
*Saki (Brawl)
*Lucario (Brawl)
*Isaac (Brawl)
*Sonic (Brawl)
*Yoshi (Mario Party 9)
*Little Mac (Brawl)
*Bowser Jr. (Mario Party 9)
*Fox (Brawl)
*Wolf (Brawl)
*Mario (Brawl)
*Diddy Kong (Brawl)
*Classic Wario (Brawl)
*Ness (Brawl)
*Oshawott (PokePark 2)
*Squirtle (Brawl)
*Starfy (Brawl)
*Kirby (Brawl)
*Bandanna Waddle Dee (Kirby's Return to Dream Land)

Note: The image is very wide, so you'll have to click on it for a larger revision.

[/collapse]

I came.

You shrunk Wolf?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I came.

You shrunk Wolf?

Nope, that's what Wolf's Brawl model looks like when it's scaled down to 1x, which I've found to be quite odd.

 

[Oasis_S]

So Sakurai lied about Wolf having a larger frame than Fox, only feeling smaller because of his stance?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So Sakurai lied about Wolf having a larger frame than Fox, only feeling smaller because of his stance?

Beats me. The moveset files may play a factor in resizing the characters though.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Here's a massive character size comparison image that I did up. Most Brawl models are set at a 1x scale, but some have been rescaled to be more suited for being playable.

[collapse=Size Comparison]Models Used
*Donkey Kong (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Bowser (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Ridley (Brawl) - 0.4x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Mewtwo (model hack) - 1.5x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Palutena (model hack) - 1.35x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Ganondorf (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Emboar (PokePark 2) - 2x scale; Translation Y: 0.4
*Rosalina (Peach vertex hack) - 1.2x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Charizard (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Samus (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Captain Falcon (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Samurai Goroh (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Ike (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Zero Suit Samus (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Zelda (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Pit (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Peach (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Zoroark (PokePark 2) - 1.2x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Saki (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Lucario (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Isaac (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Sonic (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Yoshi (Mario Party 9) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Little Mac (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Bowser Jr. (Mario Party 9) - 1.2x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Fox (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Wolf (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Mario (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Diddy Kong (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Classic Wario (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Ness (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Oshawott (PokePark 2) - 0.8x scale; Translation Y: 0.05
*Squirtle (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Starfy (Brawl) - 2x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Kirby (Brawl) - 1x scale; Translation Y: 0
*Bandanna Waddle Dee (Kirby's Return to Dream Land) - 9.25x scale; Translation Y: 0

Note: The image is very wide, so you'll have to click on it for a larger revision.

[/collapse]

Why is Wario so small ? I thought he was taller than Mario, and to a lesser extent, Luigi.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Wario has always been on the short side, but his girth and muscles still makes him relatively big regardless.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Why is Wario so small ? I thought he was taller than Mario, and to a lesser extent, Luigi.

You must keep note that the Brawl models can be quite unorthodox in the way that they're handled. I was just as surprised as you were when I saw how short some of those characters really were; I for one never expected Wolf to be shorter than Peach.

Anyway, I have a feeling that the moveset files seem to adjust the size of the characters, as Wolf doesn't look so short when you see him in-game.

Edit: I've made a major update to my size comparison image. After looking at the moveset files, I've resized the Brawl models, making the image look more accurate.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

Alright, thanks, looks a bit more accurate now.

Also, if you'd be interested, here's an image that shows compares the size of some recurring Mario characters :

Spoiler

They're not on their "T-Positions" but it's something I guess.

 

[Ginamudkipz]

I made something :

Mario series :
Mario
Peach
Bowser
Waluigi
Dr. Mario(returns as costume for Mario)
CONSIDERED : Toad, Paper Mario

Donkey Kong :
DK
Diddy
K. Rool
CONSIDERED: Dixie

Yoshi

Wario :
Wario
CONSIDERED: Mona, Captain Syrup

Luigi(separated from the Mario characters due to having his own series now(Luigi's Mansion))

Legend of Zelda :
Link
Zelda
Sheik
Ganondorf

F-Zero :
C. Falcon
S. Goroh
CONSIDERED: B. Shadow

Star Fox :
Fox
Falco
Wolf
CONSIDERED : Krystal

Metroid :
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Ridley
CONSIDERED: Dark Samus

Fire Emblem :
Marth
Roy
Ike
CONSIDERED : Krom, Eliwood, Lyn, Micaiah

Pokémon :
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Zoroark
CONSIDERED : PKMN Trainer

Kirby :
Kirby
DDD
Meta Knight

Pikmin & Olimar

Kid Icarus:
Pit
CONSIDERED: Palutena, Medusa, Dark Pit

Lloyd(Golden Sun)

MOTHER :
Ness
Lucas
CONSIDERED: Masked Man, Porky

Retro Series :
Ice Climber
ROB
Mr. Game & Watch
CONSIDERED : Little Mac, Takamaru, Balloon Fighter

Third-Party :
Sonic
Snake
Mega Man
Pac-Man
CONSIDERED: Rayman, Bomberman

OTHER CONSIDERED:
Saki
Prof. Layton
Ray 01

There's no Lloyd in golden sun, Isaac is one, but If you mean Lloyd Irving, it's Tales of symphonia

 

[Dayzle]

Paper Mario, thats all I want if they at least give me him, I will be happy no matter what!
I don't know what the odds of that happing are though.
Where are people getting facts from when it comes to the most wanted characters to the Smash bros games?

 

[Ridley_Prime]

@ The Mario branch: What about Rosalina?

@ The Metroid branch: Based on?

Your take on the Pokemon branch is predictable, though how do you know Mewtwo's not coming back?

The Star Fox character is spelled Krystal by the way, and I kind of agree with you on Tekken, though it'd be cool if we had something like Ogre as a boss. That alone might top most (or all) the bosses the Subspace Emissary had in execution.

 

[Oasis_S]

The Star Fox character is spelled Krystal by the way, and I kind of agree with you on Tekken, though it'd be cool if we had something like Ogre as a boss.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Namco obviously based that off of the Tekken boss.

 

[SoulPech]

There needs to be more females in the next Smash game. With that said, Rosalina, Cooking Mama, and Krystal in the next game.

 

[Oasis_S]

You could at least pick better females.

 

[Johnknight1]

G4TV's Feed has made a list of characters they want for SSB4. The list is short - only four Nintendo characters and then four third-parties.

1st/2nd Party: Little Mac and Shulk are obvious choices. That idea of Sylux like 5 years out of style, and fairly boring. Also, their comments on Ridley prove how stupid G4 is again. Clearly, a character who was one of 5 new generic enemies is more important than the most frequently recurring antagonist who leads the evil organization the protagonist fights, is the protagonist's rival, and killed the protagonist's parents. Also, there was a serious fail when they decided to mention that stupid Duck Hunt Dog. Their choice of Advance Wars characters were terrible. It's Andy or GTFO.

Pac-Man and Mega Man are obvious choices. Simon Belmont is unlikely, but still a good choice (as a playable character). Rygar... was a stupid 3rd party choice. Like really stupid.

Overall, this is a piss poor list. 2/10. No Mewtwo, Zoroark, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Isaac, Miis, etc. mentions. /failure.

 

[_KA_]

This is what I would like to see:

One character representing each series, so for example:

Mario, Link, Samus, Kirby, Pikachu, Captain Falcon, Fox, Olimar, Marth, Ness, Pit, Snake, Sonic, Megaman, Donkey Kong.

No more and no less. They don't need more and more players, only balance.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

@Jhonnykiller45: I've seen that Mario franchise size comparison image before, but the Super Smash Bros. series doesn't exactly follow it.

While it's true that Bowser is typically taller than Donkey Kong, that isn't the case in Brawl. Likewise, Mario appears taller than Wario in Brawl, when it's often the other way around in the Mario spin-offs.

As for Bowser Jr., he is getting older, and has actually rivaled Peach's height in Super Mario Galaxy. But for the spin-offs, being more around Mario's height seems acceptable enough.

 

[Deleted member]

1st/2nd Party: Little Mac and Shulk are obvious choices. That idea of Sylux like 5 years out of style, and fairly boring. Also, their comments on Ridley prove how stupid G4 is again. Clearly, a character who was one of 5 new generic enemies is more important than the most frequently recurring antagonist who leads the evil organization the protagonist fights, is the protagonist's rival, and killed the protagonist's parents. Also, there was a serious fail when they decided to mention that stupid Duck Hunt Dog. Their choice of Advance Wars characters were terrible. It's Andy or GTFO.

Pac-Man and Mega Man are obvious choices. Simon Belmont is unlikely, but still a good choice (as a playable character). Rygar... was a stupid 3rd party choice. Like really stupid.

Overall, this is a piss poor list. 2/10. No Mewtwo, ZoroarkRidley, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Isaac, Miis, etc. mentions. /failure.

Fixed, but yeah I mostly agree.

 

[Spire]

@spire: i love the hexagon tiles, did you make them yourself or is there somewhere i can get my hands on them?

I made them.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

@Jhonnykiller45: I've seen that Mario franchise size comparison image before, but the Super Smash Bros. series doesn't exactly follow it.

While it's true that Bowser is typically taller than Donkey Kong, that isn't the case in Brawl. Likewise, Mario appears taller than Wario in Brawl, when it's often the other way around in the Mario spin-offs.

As for Bowser Jr., he is getting older, and has actually rivaled Peach's height in Super Mario Galaxy. But for the spin-offs, being more around Mario's height seems acceptable enough.

Huh.
I wonder why.
Because, for example, Ganondorf in Twilight Princess was alot taller than Link and Zelda, so I can understand why he was scaled down for Brawl, but, scaling down characters such as Wario and Bowser ? I don't get it. (except for Bowser, because his size is always being changed throughout the Mario series)

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

There's no Lloyd in golden sun, Isaac is one, but If you mean Lloyd Irving, it's Tales of symphonia

Wait, how did you find that here... ?
Did I post it here or something ?
And, yeah, I meant Isaac, not Lloyd... oops...

 

[Ridley_Prime]

This is what I would like to see:

One character representing each series, so for example:

Mario, Link, Samus, Kirby, Pikachu, Captain Falcon, Fox, Olimar, Marth, Ness, Pit, Snake, Sonic, Megaman, Donkey Kong.

No more and no less. They don't need more and more players, only balance.

That would be the biggest cluster**** to ever hit the series if it happened, minus the balance part. Good thing it won't.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree. While the balance will probably get better thanks to Namco Bandai getting involved with the game and having a much larger team, it's pretty much impossible to completely balance the game.

I'd rather have a sixty character roster with the same balancing issues as in Brawl than a balance fifteen man game. The characters are what is going to sell me the game as that is the main reason why I even play Smash.

 

[Coffeeblack]

K. Rool would be ****in awesome

 

[Claire Diviner]

I agree. While the balance will probably get better thanks to Namco Bandai getting involved with the game and having a much larger team, it's pretty much impossible to completely balance the game.

I'd rather have a sixty character roster with the same balancing issues as in Brawl than a balance fifteen man game. The characters are what is going to sell me the game as that is the main reason why I even play Smash.

I agree with this. However, even though it's very impossible to balance a roster of 50 or so characters, there should never be a point where a single character dies (easily) to all other characters. Each character should have at least one good MU. In the chance that we still have a similar problem in Smash 4 where we have a character equivalent to Brawl's Ganondorf, we can only hope that necessary patches will be made to balance out those issues. I mean, aren't there fighting games that do this already?

 

[Starphoenix]

1st/2nd Party: Little Mac and Shulk are obvious choices. That idea of Sylux like 5 years out of style, and fairly boring. Also, their comments on Ridley prove how stupid G4 is again. Clearly, a character who was one of 5 new generic enemies is more important than the most frequently recurring antagonist who leads the evil organization the protagonist fights, is the protagonist's rival, and killed the protagonist's parents. Also, there was a serious fail when they decided to mention that stupid Duck Hunt Dog. Their choice of Advance Wars characters were terrible. It's Andy or GTFO.

Pac-Man and Mega Man are obvious choices. Simon Belmont is unlikely, but still a good choice (as a playable character). Rygar... was a stupid 3rd party choice. Like really stupid.

Overall, this is a piss poor list. 2/10. No Mewtwo, Zoroark, K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Isaac, Miis, etc. mentions. /failure.

Ugh, that list only continues to perpetuate my belief that video game bloggers are some of the biggest fanboys out there on the net.

And if you are going to crap over Ridley, at least pick a Metroid character that makes a little bit of sense.

 

[DarkSouls]

That idea of Sylux like 5 years out of style, and fairly boring. Also, their comments on Ridley prove how stupid G4 is again. Clearly, a character who was one of 5 new generic enemies is more important than the most frequently recurring antagonist who leads the evil organization the protagonist fights, is the protagonist's rival, and killed the protagonist's parents.

Ridley's not really a rival. He's not in competition with Samus. I think the word you were looking for was "nemesis".

But yes, Sylux is just a bizarre choice. The only reason why he's even notable is that the ending of Prime 3 teased the Delano, and we have no idea if that will ever even be followed up on.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Sakurai will try to make sure that balancing is done better right from the start and making a noticeable difference. He seems to be a man who wants to give people a finished product instead of releasing a half-baked one and force fans to either buy the content or do a ton of updates in order to make it a "finished" game. So we won't be seeing many updates, barring unseen glitches that interfere with the game play.

 

[Lukingordex]

This is what I would like to see:

One character representing each series, so for example:

Mario, Link, Samus, Kirby, Pikachu, Captain Falcon, Fox, Olimar, Marth, Ness, Pit, Snake, Sonic, Megaman, Donkey Kong.

No more and no less. They don't need more and more players, only balance.

Get out of this thread and never comeback,please.