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Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

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FlareHabanero

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Brawl didn't have any Super Mario RPG content in it, right? Besides Peach's side smash?
In terms of songs, trophies, or stickers, no. There was a scrapped song that was planned called MORINOKINOKO (Mushroom Forest), but it's unknown if it's referring to the song "Beware The Forest's Mushrooms" from Super Mario RPG or "In The Mushroom Forest" from Mario Party.
 

peeup

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I'm gonna go to sleep. But by all means go ahead. I'll reply to you tomorrow, just make sure you quote a post of mine so I can see it.
Eh nevermind actually. I was feeling antsy and ready to debate when I wrote that, but I'm pretty zen right now so I'll just let it go.

Geno looks cool. I have no knowledge of him or Super Mario RPG, but he looks cool.
 

Croph

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In terms of songs, trophies, or stickers, no. There was a scrapped song that was planned called MORINOKINOKO (Mushroom Forest), but it's unknown if it's referring to the song "Beware The Forest's Mushrooms" from Super Mario RPG or "In The Mushroom Forest" from Mario Party.
Ah ok, thanks. I couldn't quite remember. I've heard about that scrapped song before...It's sure interesting that it could be either song, though I would have loved some Super Mario RPG content. Even if it's just a song, or a sticker or two, Super Mario RPG is one of my fave Mario games..ah well, what can ya do...

I did like Geno...though, honestly, Mario and Bowser stole the show for me. Not just their attacks, but personalities too. :laugh: I mean, Super Mario RPG is like the only game that I actually like Mario in. I can actually connect to him. I just loved his character and everything.
 

Croph

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Yeah, to me, Mario in Melee feels more "comfy" (if that makes any sense) than in brawl...plus he seems more happier and less grumpy than how he is in Brawl...I guess Brawl is srs bsns.
 

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The change in physics and mechanics from Melee to Brawl made it appear like some characters got nerfed when in reality they're about the same. Mario, Falcon and other characters remained about the same overall or even saw minor improvements here and there.
 

FlareHabanero

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To me, it felt like a lot of the veterans felt worse due to the change of mechanics. Some did get better like Mr. Game & Watch, and some remained around the same like Marth, but it kind of shows in general with the most blunt offender being Captain Falcon.
 

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Melee Mario had more spunk to him than Brawl Mario
Brawl Mario had a poker face the entire game. >_>


But anyway between the games I prefer these versions the best:

64: Ness, Kirby,
Melee: Mario, Link, Samus, Jigglypuff, Peach, DK,
Brawl: Pikachu, Mr. G&W, Fox, Marth, Bowser, and pretty much all the Semi-Clones,
 

Neanderthal

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Someone posted recently about Sakurai saying something along the lines of wanting to keep the roster relatively small in SSB4.
Does anyone have a source? or a translation of what he said?
Cheers.
 

FlareHabanero

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Someone posted recently about Sakurai saying something along the lines of wanting to keep the roster relatively small in SSB4.
Does anyone have a source? or a translation of what he said?
Cheers.
That was a mistranslation. In reality it's more along the lines that he COULD add more characters and stages, but he wants to do more then that.
 
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I think he's referring to this: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/...ntity-change-direction-maybe-be-whats-needed/

Sakurai said:
“It isn’t a matter of ‘if the next game has 50 characters, that’ll be enough.’ There is a certain charm to games that have huge casts of playable characters, but they tend to have issues with game balance and it becomes very difficult to fine-tune each character and have them all feel distinctive…. In terms of quantity, we’ve probably already reached the limit of what’s feasible. I think a change of direction may be what’s needed.”
Many interpret this as Brawl being the limit, but I seriously doubt that we'll only be getting around forty characters (transformation included). More likely Sakurai is referring to SSB4's roster.
 

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I think he's referring to this: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/...ntity-change-direction-maybe-be-whats-needed/

Many interpret this as Brawl being the limit, but I seriously doubt that we'll only be getting around forty characters (transformation included). More likely Sakurai is referring to SSB4's roster.
If I remember correctly, he did come out and say that there will be new characters.

So essentially the roster will not see as big as an expansion as the previous games of the series.
 

FlareHabanero

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Well a smaller expansion is a blessing in disguise. Less focus on the quantity and more focus on the quality, which hopefully leads to a more polished game.
 

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If I rememver correctly, he did come out and say that there will be new characters.

So essentially the roster will not see as big as an expansion as the previous games of the series.
Yeah, my analysis is pretty much that they're going to try and make ~50 characters work as best as they possibly can, and call it there. They've got a pretty big team working on balancing, and Namco-Bandai in on it (which was not the case when that quote was originally made) so I think we'll still see a decent number of additions, but not any more than 10-11. My roster I recently posted came to exactly 49 characters, minus transformations, and that seems reasonable to me.

Edit: I also expect, in future installments, that we'll see even less and less expansion in the roster, depending on who's working on the game. (Maybe 3-4 additions?)



It's pretty much the standard fare (exceptions being Dixie, Goroh and Jr, really), but what this told me is that standard fare is pretty acceptable, as it's even below 50. Yay!

Now can we just hurry up and get to E3 already?
 

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Well a smaller expansion is a blessing in disguise. Less focus on the quantity and more focus on the quality, which hopefully leads to a more polished game.
You have a total polish boner.

But then again Kuma always goes on about "the gameplay" and I always say "for variety." I guess we all have our own ideas on what is most important.
 

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But then again Kuma always goes on about "the gameplay" and I always say "for variety." I guess we all have our own ideas on what is most important.
Well, we're pretty much looking at the same thing at slightly different angles. I want the gameplay and mechanics to support a wide variety of playstyles - something that is a particular problem now.
 

Neanderthal

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I think he's referring to this: http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2012/...ntity-change-direction-maybe-be-whats-needed/

Many interpret this as Brawl being the limit, but I seriously doubt that we'll only be getting around forty characters (transformation included). More likely Sakurai is referring to SSB4's roster.
Thanks alot. Very interesting.

It probably does not mean that 35 is the limit, but it certainly does not bode well for those expecting 45+ characters.


I expect alot of hearts on this board will be smashed when SSB4 is released.
This board was like a funeral when Brawl came out despite including a staggering 16 newcomers!! So I hate to imagine what this one will be like.

I'd project half that for SSB4 unless theres more cuts than expected.
The most I'm going to hope for is 43ish. Mainly just obvious additions like Shulk, Ridley, Palutena, Little mac, a Namco rep etc.... and maybe even a few cuts.


Each new Tekken game is lucky to get 2 newcomers. We need to face the fact that adding 15 odd characters each game is not sustainable for very long and may have reached it's end according to this quote.
 

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Didn't he say that before namco- bandai got involved? Things could have changed. But, we won't know for sure until E3.
 
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Didn't he say that before namco- bandai got involved? Things could have changed. But, we won't know for sure until E3.
This was said after Namco joined the team (The announcement was on June, 2012 and this came slightly later).

Having said that, it hasn't really made a significant impact on my roster. Still feel as we'll get 48-56 characters, transformation included. My guess would be 51-53.
 

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This was said after Namco joined the team (The announcement was on June, 2012 and this came slightly later).

Having said that, it hasn't really made a significant impact on my roster. Still feel as we'll get 51-56 characters, transformation included.
I remember him saying something similar after E2 2011.
 
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I remember him saying something similar after E2 2011.
I don't think he said anything in regards to the roster reaching the limit before July, 2012, although shortly after Smash 4's confirmation at June, 2011, Sakurai did mention that he wanted to do more than just increase the roster count to 50 and double the amount of stage.
 

Oasis_S

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My philosophy is quality over quantity. Sugar coating all the flaws with rainbows is not the way to go.
What flaws in particular. Ignoring that Brawl wasn't designed the way you wanted it to, are there really that many glaring problems for you take a such a stance.

Like, of course it's a nice rule of thumb, but you seem to take it to a more XXXTREME level when, in my experience, there hasn't been anything that would make me go chanting that everywhere.
 

bobadz

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I don't think he said anything in regards to the roster reaching the limit before July, 2012, although shortly after Smash 4's confirmation at June, 2011, Sakurai did mention that he wanted to do more than just increase the roster count to 50 and double the amount of stage.
That's what I was thinking of.

By the way do we know if someone at namco drew the drawing Sakurai tweeted. I think the lead artist is from namco.
 

FlareHabanero

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Ignoring that Brawl wasn't designed the way you wanted it to, are there really that many glaring problems for you take a such a stance.
Well for starters, a lot of the content felt half assed and the gameplay took a lot of unnecessary liberties that ether does nothing or created more problems.
 

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I don't think he said anything in regards to the roster reaching the limit before July, 2012, although shortly after Smash 4's confirmation at June, 2011, Sakurai did mention that he wanted to do more than just increase the roster count to 50 and double the amount of stage.
Yet to most people, the jump from Melee to Brawl was this. Chances are that most people will be finding the transition from Brawl to Sm4sh to be the biggest jump since Melee.

What flaws in particular. Ignoring that Brawl wasn't designed the way you wanted it to, are there really that many glaring problems for you take a such a stance.

Like, of course it's a nice rule of thumb, but you seem to take it to a more XXXTREME level when, in my experience, there hasn't been anything that would make me go chanting that everywhere.
Random tripping, shields being too powerful, chain grabs, stale moves, no knockback scaling, no damage scaling (though it's not really needed in Brawl), way too far blast zones, OP items, and too many stage gimmicks.
 

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Random tripping, shields being too powerful, chain grabs, stale moves, no knockback scaling, no damage scaling (though it's not really needed in Brawl), way too far blast zones, OP items, and too many stage gimmicks.
To be fair you must admit that the stages and the items are completely optional.
 

Oasis_S

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@Habanero more than Kuma but Kuma helped too:

I think.

I definitely see where you are coming from now.

But I'm just going to be greedy and ask for both quantity and quality. Eh? What's that? You don't think I can? DON'T YOU KNOW? I'M THE STRONGEST IN THE WHOLE WORLD!
 

peeup

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I value quantity more than quality.

Reasons:

I like having a lot of characters to cycle through when I get bored.

If Smash 4 is a let down competitively due to its large cast, Melee will always exist as an extremely viable fallback.
 

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To be fair you must admit that the stages and the items are completely optional.
While you are right, I would like it if I wasn't limited to certain stages because all the other ones were too lazy for more diverse stage layouts and instead went for stupid gimmicks. Seriously, a number of them are really lazy stage designs. You had ones like Skyworld, New Pork City, and arguably Norfair were just generic stages painted with appropriately colors. The thing I liked about stages like Hyrule Castle, Isle Delfino, Castle Siege, and Onett are that you really feel like they were extracted from their respective games, like you're actually fighting in that location. A lot more stages need to be like that.
@Habanero more than Kuma but Kuma helped too:

I think.

I definitely see where you are coming from now.

But I'm just going to be greedy and ask for both quantity and quality. Eh? What's that? You don't think I can? DON'T YOU KNOW? I'M THE STRONGEST IN THE WHOLE WORLD!
No, I think it's natural to want both, but sometimes you can't or that quantity can come in other forms. Take example with BlazBlue me and Manly always go on about. The cast is currently consisting of 23 characters, a little under half of the expected roster for Sm4sh. Despite having a much smaller roster, the playstyles of these characters along with the general mechanics make them very deep and provide both a tall skill ladder to climb, but much more replay value in general.
 

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The latest version, Continuum Shift Extend is out on PS360. There's Continuum Shift II on the 3DS, but that's out of date. Then there's BlazBlue Chrono Phantasma that's out in arcades with an eventual console release, but we don't know when. To clear some things up, Continuum Shift II came out in 9/2010 in arcades and 5/2011 on consoles. Extend came out in arcades in 9/2011 and 2/2012 on consoles. So, you can see that updates only come out about once a year which is progressively becoming the norm for fighting games. Chrono Phantasma came out in arcades in 11/2012 and is essentially BlazBlue 3 (CS was 2) as opposed to an update like the CS series were.
 

peeup

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So nothing for Wii or PS2? And the only arcade near me is a real ****hole with like 2 good games, neither of them being BlazBlue.
 

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I guess for me Brawl is still a quality product, and I would be pleased to receive more of the same quality but with more quantity. Though, I'd like to think that Brawl provided a foundation (made of stepping stones? how does this metaphor work) to be improved upon this next time around. Y'know, better story mode, better stage builder, etc.


Anyway, since I hope Sm4sh won't suffer from long loading times like Brawl did, I really hope for a new "quick play" feature. Just press it and a match begins. Don't have to bother with results or select screens. You could adjust the rules elsewhere. I know you can already set up the rules to get essentially the same thing, but I DUNNO I DON'T WANNA GO THROUGH HOOPS GEEZ. Incidentally, I don't know where there hasn't been a "save rules" feature yet. C'mon, do I really have to change it to stock each time I turn on the game.
 

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Oasis is too Strong, so all I have to left to say is that I trust Sakurai, and I guess Namco Bandai too.
 
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