Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Vintage Creep]

Well it all depends, maybe Namco/Bandai will make the game more smooth. I don't really think so (or care), but who knows.

 

[Moon Monkey]

I think the duo would be interesting, but it's best left for characters who NEED each other. I mean, Plusle & Minun for example. But a Dixie/Kiddy team up would be cool. What about and Eirika Ephraim duo? She uses a sword (looks like a fencing sword) and he uses a lance. Would be a cool duo IMO. I think the idea of a duo is just really hard to make work in Smash effectively though. Which is why Dixie/Diddy was scrapped.

I think time and resources played a major role in Diddy/Dixie canning. But yeah, their main mechanic wouldn't solely be based off of IC's it will also take from Zelda/Shiek. I made up this Lead Kong system where only the lead Kong will carry out the players input. The following kong would just simply follow the lead kong as best as any AI could.

I think the duo thing should be left to the Ice Climbers. We only have enough room for so many broken characters thank you very much.

Couldn't they make it so that only the lead player only grabs? Wouldn't that solve the grabbing shenanigans??

 

[Shorts]

Well it all depends, maybe Namco/Bandai will make the game more smooth. I don't really think so (or care), but who knows.

They will. It's Namco. I mean, Tekken, Soul Calibur? Sure they aren't Capcom, but they're the next best thing. Maybe besides the team behind Blazblue

Oh, you mean like PT but with 2 chars?

Why is this concept so hard to get? Like Dixie and Diddy played in DKC2? You know, both on the feild at the same time? You can switch at any point between the two.

 

[~automatic]

They won't be nearly as broken thanks to Namco. Also, I was thinking more of a tag team. That's a new mechanic, kind of. Shelda meets ICs

Oh, you mean like PT but with 2 chars?

 

[FlareHabanero]

They won't be nearly as broken thanks to Namco.

As long as they can be desynced and manipulated, they will always be broken. Chain grabs from them are a *****.

 

[Shorts]

Well I don't know HOW Namco will fix them, but it's kinda the reason they're there right? Really, Smash should be pretty easy to balance compared to most fighting games.

 

[Deleted member]

They will. It's Namco. I mean, Tekken, Soul Calibur? Sure they aren't Capcom, but they're the next best thing. Maybe besides the team behind Blazblue

imo

Aksys/Arc System Works (BlazBlue Guilty Gear)>SNK (King of Fighters)> Capcom>Namco

Namco is responsible for Tekken and Soul Calibur, but they are also responsible for those very mediocre anime fighters (DBZ BT series and Ultimate Ninja afaik).


Also, I would say Smash is much harder to balance than most other fighters since the fighting style is weight based an unconventional and death can come from many more factors than in HP based fighters.

There are more things to keep in mind than in regular Arcade fighteres.

 

[Shorts]

IMo

Aksys/Arc System Works (BlazBlue Guilty Gear)>SNK (King of Fighters)> Capcom>Namco

Namco is responsible for Tekken and Soul Calibur, but they are also responsible for those very mediocre anime fighters (DBZ BT series and Ultimate Ninja afaik).

Oh god, that's true. Still, Smash is probably a higher priority than Naruto Fighter number 44. But I agree with your list.

 

[Moon Monkey]

They can just make it so that only one of the duo carries out the the players grab inputs...

 

[Big-Cat]

Mind you, they don't go for competitive play on the anime fighters. It's their own properties that should be looked at.

Ice Climbers should have limited desyncing (and actually part of the moveset) while Zelda becomes Zelda/Impa for a TTT2 esque design.

 

[BKupa666]

You know, the Famitsu source confirming Dixie as part of a duo with Diddy only said that it was scrapped because of "complications," but I sincerely hope Sakurai preferring both characters as individuals contributed to this as well. It would be unfortunate to shortchange both characters for the sake of a gimmick that just begs to be unbalanced, and only represents a single game (two, counting DKL2). Hopefully, the option to have a DK-Diddy team match remains untarnished, and we can have a DK-Diddy-Dixie vs. K. Rool 3 vs. 1 match as well.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I don't understand why the hell Sheik should be replaced by Impa.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I don't understand why the hell Sheik should be replaced by Impa.

Because people are dumb.

 

[~automatic]

Why is this concept so hard to get? Like Dixie and Diddy played in DKC2? You know, both on the feild at the same time? You can switch at any point between the two.

It's not hard to get. One char is in the background (think where PT runs along the stage) while the other one is in the actual 2D combat plane. They would switch out like PT's Pokemon

EDIT: Without the pokeballs obviously.

 

[Moon Monkey]

It's not hard to get. One char is in the background (think where PT runs along the stage) while the other one is in the actual 2D combat plane. They would switch out like PT's Pokemon.

I was thinking more so like IC climbers, the following kong wouldn't be in the background plane but on the same plane as the lead kong only the following kong wouldn't do anything unless they were tagged in.

 

[Frostwraith]

It's not hard to get. One char is in the background (think where PT runs along the stage) while the other one is in the actual 2D combat plane. They would switch out like PT's Pokemon

EDIT: Without the pokeballs obviously.

Not a bad idea at all.

Spoiler

*expects SWF user Diddy Kong to suggest this for Zelda and Impa...*

 

[Deleted member]

I don't understand why the hell Sheik should be replaced by Impa.

Because the current Zelda concept is broken, as in, there's no flow between the two. It's either Zelda or Sheik and there's no point to the transformation really.

I used to be against the idea of Impa, but if Zelda can play like Eddie in Guilty Gear with Impa acting as the "Shadow" I can definitely dig that. Eddie was an awesome ****ing character.

On the avatar... guess not, stupid site won't let me upload... Too big it says, even though I've downscaled it, guess it can't handle the awesome manlyness the emanates from my avatar choices.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I haven't seen Diddy Kong for a while actually. I wonder if he's in a closet building a statue of Impa made out of bananas and having wet dreams over his waifu.

 

[Shorts]

Because people are dumb.

Shiek could end up looking something like this. (But better, of course) To match SSZelda, I mean

 

[lobotheduck21]

Spoiler

*expects SWF user Diddy Kong to suggest this for Zelda and Impa...*

He already has

 

[FlareHabanero]

Because the current Zelda concept is broken, as in, there's no flow between the two. It's either Zelda or Sheik and there's no point to the transformation really.

Or you could simply fix the characters to actually be competent. Simply removing Shiek is not going to solve the problems with Zelda.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Because the current Zelda concept is broken, as in, there's no flow between the two. It's either Zelda or Sheik and there's no point to the transformation really.

I used to be against the idea of Impa, but if Zelda can play like Eddie in Guilty Gear with Impa acting as the "Shadow" I can definitely dig that. Eddie was an awesome ****ing character.

On the avatar... guess not, stupid site won't let me upload... Too big it says, even though I've downscaled it, guess it can't handle the awesome manlyness the emanates from my avatar choices.

I understand and actually agree, but it's nothing that can't be fixed. The only reasonable transformation for Zelda is still Sheik, since they're the same person. Impa could be a different character if really someone want her in, but not as a transformation for Zelda. Doesn't make sense at all. I'd rather have Zelda alone without Sheik than that.

 

[Big-Cat]

Or you could simply fix the characters to actually be competent. Simply removing Shiek is not going to solve the problems with Zelda.

The lack of flow is still an issue. If you're going to have a duo character, there needs to be the ability to switch each other out in the middle of combos. Transformation has historically been too slow for this to work. The same applies to the Pokemon Trainer as well. Look at every stance character in every fighting game that isn't Smash. They have ways to transition in and out of their stances. Switching characters in Smash does not have this.

Another problem with Shelda is that their playstyles are not complementary, but polarizing. There's also the issue of how the current Smash design heavily favors Sheik.

I understand and actually agree, but it's nothing that can't be fixed. The only reasonable transformation for Zelda is still Sheik, since they're the same person. Impa could be a different character if really someone want her in, but not as a transformation for Zelda. Doesn't make sense at all. I'd rather have Zelda alone without Sheik than that.

You know Zelda doesn't have to transform, right?

 

[Deleted member]

@ Pepper and Creeper

Yeah, but Zelda's problem is fundamental. It built into the roots of her character in order to make the gimmick work, they need to rework both characters and break and blend them so they flow together giving them a new strategy rather than what we already have which is two characters with some gimmick tossed in.

What I mean is, both Zelda and Sheik need to be integrated into one character, meaning multiple ways to transform, transforming mid-combos, and a REASON for it, which means both need to have weaknesses that must be covered by the other. The concept for the character is good, but it was never given the necessary thought by Sakurai. Thus we have two separate characters that are only linked by one move.

EDIT: Goddammit!! **** the new servers. They won't let me upload squat for a new avatar! What gives, what the hell is the new image limit? How is 50kb too much?

 

[~automatic]

I was thinking more so like IC climbers, the following kong wouldn't be in the background plane but on the same plane as the lead kong only the following kong wouldn't do anything unless they were tagged in.

If both Kongs are on the combat plane of the stage (Like ICs) then they can both get hit which would mean having two separate damage counters. Now, if you could switch Kongs while keeping the two damage counters (like ICs) then you would be able to postpone getting KOd if the secondary Kong has taken less damage than the Kong which tagged out (IE Kong 1: 129% Kong 2: 74%)

Of course anyone who has some 1v1 sense would split these two up and **** up the secondary Kong leaving you with 1 Kong so you can't switch out and have less damage.

Not a bad idea at all.

Hit that Like button yo!

 

[Vintage Creep]

Transformation can easily be quicker I don't really see a problem for that.

I used the term "transformation" because I thought here was used for every character, even the Trainer. I guess I was wrong. Anyway, the idea of having Impa jumping randomly in the battle while Zelda jumps out makes me laugh. It's simply ugly and kinda stupid. Again, if you really want Impa, I'm all for it as a stand alone character. I kinda like her, after Ghirahim she's absolutely the one I like the most in Skyward Sword. But alone.

Seems to me you want Sheik out because he/she's not a regular anymore. That's understandable actually, but we can close an eye can we? He/she's still awesome.

 

[BKupa666]

Yes, when I say Diddy and Dixie as a duo would be unbalanced, I do not mean they would obviously have chaingrabs (though this is still possible). Instead, in all likelihood, keeping one of Diddy or Dixie as the 'lead' character would be the obvious better option, much like with Zelda and Sheik. Because of this, the concept of switching freely between the two, as in DKC2, would be rendered a disadvantage, rather than something cool or unique.

Aside from Zelda and Sheik being the same person, I think people are generally accepting of their transformation status because, unlike Diddy or Dixie, Zelda was never a fighter prior to Smash, and thus, liberties with her moveset are more justified.

EDIT: ~automatic brings up a very good balance-related point above as well. Diddy and Dixie would both have to be absurdly light to balance out switching between damage counters.

 

[Big-Cat]

Transformation can easily be quicker I don't really see a problem for that.

I used the term "transformation" because I thought here was used for every character, even the Trainer. I guess I was wrong. Anyway, the idea of having Impa jumping randomly in the battle while Zelda jumps out makes me laugh. It's simply ugly and kinda stupid. Again, if you really want Impa, I'm all for it as a stand alone character. I kinda like her, after Ghirahim she's absolutely the one I like the most in Skyward Sword. But alone.

Seems to me you want Sheik out because he/she's not a regular anymore. That's understandable actually, but we can close an eye can we? He/she's still awesome.

Every tag based fighter says hi.

 

[Deleted member]

Transformation can easily be quicker I don't really see a problem for that.

I used the term "transformation" because I thought here was used for every character, even the Trainer. I guess I was wrong. Anyway, the idea of having Impa jumping randomly in the battle while Zelda jumps out makes me laugh. It's simply ugly and kinda stupid. Again, if you really want Impa, I'm all for it as a stand alone character. I kinda like her, after Ghirahim she's absolutely the one I like the most in Skyward Sword. But alone.

Seems to me you want Sheik out because he/she's not a regular anymore. That's understandable actually, but we can close an eye can we? He/she's still awesome.

Well, I don't think anyone sees them as "jumping in and out." Watch the video I posted. I see it more as Impa coming from the shadows. Impa wouldn't be a fully playable character, but rather an extension of Zelda herself that stems from the shadows.

As for Sheik, I'm indifferent either way, I like the idea of Sheik being s Smash unique character much like C.Falcon, but when you really think about it, it's Sheik alone that is a good character really, and even if you buff Zelda, they remain two separate characters that don't put much use to the Transform idea, and thus wasted potential.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Every tag based fighter says hi.

Then Bowser Jr. can be a tag with Bowser, right? I mean they are allies.
C'mon...

 

[Moon Monkey]

If both Kongs are on the combat plane of the stage (Like ICs) then they can both get hit which would mean having two separate damage counters. Now, if you could switch Kongs while keeping the two damage counters (like ICs) then you would be able to postpone getting KOd if the secondary Kong has taken less damage than the Kong which tagged out (IE Kong 1: 129% Kong 2: 74%)

Of course anyone who has some 1v1 sense would split these two up and **** up the secondary Kong leaving you with 1 Kong so you can't switch out and have less damage.

Hit that Like button yo!

That's one mechanic... And depending on the person, they might say that is a tad bit broken. If you can manage each Kong's percentage like that it would be fighting 2 stocks for the price of 1 stock. I was thinking more the PT/ Zelda&Shiek approach, where they would share the same damage percent. If the following Kong is hit the damage wouldn't be added, instead the Kong will only take the knock back effect of the hit but the percent would stay locked. only when the lead Kong is hit then the damage will be tallied into the percent.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Whenever I hear of Impa, all I think about is the fat Impa form the Oracle games.

 

[BKupa666]

Well, we need at least one heavyweight from LoZ that isn't doomed to eternal suckage

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well, we need at least one heavyweight from LoZ that isn't doomed to eternal suckage

Ganondorf was actually pretty competent in Melee, so eternal suckage has failed to materialized for one character at least.

 

[Deleted member]

Whenever I hear of Impa, all I think about is the fat Impa form the Oracle games.

You know... Why are there no fat chicks in Fighters. I'm not a BBW, but I think it'd be funny as hell.

Mingella and Blobbelda for Smash 4 as a Duo character. Problem solved.

 

[BKupa666]

Ganondorf was actually pretty competent in Melee, so eternal suckage has failed to materialized for one character at least.

He was mid-tier, if I'm remembering correctly, when his moveset more closely resembled that of Capt. Falcon. Now that he's only going to become further decloned from Falcon, and Sakurai seems to enjoy this idea of Ganondorf as a "stiff, middle-aged fighter," according to the DOJO, I'm remaining a bit pessimistic. I sincerely hope Namco proves me wrong in that regard.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Ganondorf as it is now should be scrapped and Toon Ganondorf should be in as a double-sword wielder.
If a second F-Zero rep shows up it should be a Falcon clone, and so old Ganondorf's spiritual successor. I vote for Deathborn.

 

[Shorts]

I wanna see you all get creative, pick characters to fill these requirements:

Largest character in Smash history:
Lightest character in Smash history:
Futuristic fighter:
Long Ranged Weapon Weilder:
A character riding something:
Small-heavy character:
New transformation character:
Magic weilding character:
A close ranged combat specialist:
Sheild/Wall specialist:
M gone E rated character:
Trap character:
A PT without starters:
Aerial combat specialist:
A Dark/Evil character:
A Pure character:
A really young character:
A really old character:
A summoner:

 

[Deleted member]

I wanna see you all get creative, pick characters to fill these requirements:

Largest character in Smash history:
Lightest character in Smash history:
Futuristic fighter:
Long Ranged Weapon Weilder:
A character riding something:
Small-heavy character:
New transformation character:
Magic weilding character:
A close ranged combat specialist:
Sheild/Wall specialist:
Trap character:
A PT without starters:
Aerial combat specialist:
A Dark/Evil character:
A Pure character:
A really young character:
A really old character:
A summoner:

What do you mean, like come up with new characters, or think of ones that already fill the role? If the former, gimme a couple days.

You want (partial) movesets and strategies too right?

 

[Shorts]

What do you mean, like come up with new characters, or think of ones that already fill the role? If the former, gimme a couple days.

New ones, like, newcomers to Smash that fill these requirements

@Manly, sure! If you'd like.