Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[ChronoBound]

Nah, we hate you because you're an idiotic prick.

Stay classy.

 

[Deleted member]

I think the first chick is Lyn. Row 2, Column 4 looks like KOS-MOS to me. One of the guys in the fourth row down looks like Vaati, and the thing in the row below him looks an awful lot like Mewtwo.

Man I wish I could draw. :/

Yeah, Lyn's rather obvious, altough that character's gone through two redesigns already.

Nice call on the KOS-MOS, she's essentially a KOS-MOSxSamus hybrid. The idea is a transforming character that starts off as a heavy and looses weapons but becomes lighter by running out of ammo and dropping parts of the armor.

Nice call on Vaati as well.

And yeah, last guy is Mewtwo.


Did you catch the Link, the Ganondorf, the Peach, the Palutena, the Zelda and the DK?

Oh, is this the OC roster challenge? Let's see if I can spot the influences:

1. Lyn - The most obvious one and I best this was the first one.
2.Big Hippo?
3. Chrome or Ike with a blatant Guts influence.
4. Miku, Presea, and Tron Bonne
5. Living Lord Raptor with possibly some Rorona Zoro.
6. Kamina
7. I want to say Amaterasu, but I'm probably wrong.
8. KOS-MOS
9. Unholy Pikachu-Mewoth hyrbrid.
10. Magus and/or Future Trunks
11. Not sure, but I imagine them being a duo character.
12. Desert Punk and Son Wukong
13. Silent Mage with Yu-Gi-Oh's Egyptian theme.
14. Sophitia
15. Not sure.
16. It's on the tip of the tongue, but I can't say for certain.
17. Giegue
18. The main girl from El Cazador de La Bruja
19. Not sure, but possible Eureka 7 influence.
20. Jack Skellington
21. Ippo
22. I smell Native American Dark Magician Girl
23. ???
24. Peach with Anji
25. Any Rambo movie.

I want to get back to drawing, but damn my procrastination and schoolwork.

1. Yeah, pretty obvious one. The first one I drew was the Mewtwo actually.
2. Nope, based off a Marvel character actually
3. Yep Ike + Guts with Bardock inspired armor. This is mostly because that Ike moveset I really wanna have, just like the Battousai Girl.
4. Not quite, though there is a Smash influence there...
5. Nope, this one is based of a real person.
6. Not quite, ever heard of Big Bang Age? There is a bit of C. Falcon in him though, but most of the idea came from Rouga.
7. Nope, the name gives away a lot of the inspiration for her though. This folk character has been represented in a number of a games including Sengoku Rance and Fate/Extra.
8. Pretty obvious too I think. I gotta back and rework her a bit as I like the concept. Also there's a hint of Samus Aran in her. Though she's more of a Blank Dandere character. Brutal Killing machine.
9. Hahahaha, Spot on. Though then I decided a Tanooki would make a cute mascot, so that's still a WIP waiting redesign.
10. The Future Trunks is evident, do you see the Smash influence though?
11. Hmmm... Not FABULOUS enough? Also the Vampire girl doesn't ring a bell? She's awaiting a redesign for being too similar to a Bakemono character.
12. There's a One Piece reference there.
13. There's an Egyptian theme alright. Nice catch on the YuGiOh. Winged Dragon of Ra and all. But as Shinpichu said, there's a lot of Vaati in there. The fit was too perfect. This one's moveset is derived from Diddy Kong's Evolution idea for a Transforming character.
14. Nope, this is a most likely newcomer for Smash 4, with some Fate Apocripha influence.
15. Really? This is a big Nintendo reference here. Though the pose might make it hard. Hint this one's meant to be a Heavy character.
16. There's a Smash influence here, as well as other things.
17. Who?
18. Puff no idea what that is. But it's actually more of a Moe Clint Eastwood. I wanted a Gunslinger character and I originally intended to have a Burly badass more similar to Clint with a Moe and aloof sidekick who looked more like Lala from To-Love Ru, but cut the man and redid the girl to make it one character. Now there's a slight SMT influence.
19. Nope, but there's a definite Smash reference there as well as a Disney influence.
20. Close, there's also a Digimon influence. This character's combat style is one of the ones I have a ton of ideas for, you'll see what I mean if you catch the Digimon influence.
21. Yep, some Ippo as well as the Little Mac movepool I wrote here a while back. There's some Jojo there too though.
22. Nope this one is based of someone else's art I found lying around the web about this incredibly Moe Native American girl. The concept for her is also interesting. She's basically the Masked Link, where she can get possessed by the Animal Spirits become a 4-way stance character.
23. Completely OC here, just a Caporea user that likes HipHop and such.
24. Yep, there's the Peach, didn't draw from Anji, but I see what you mean. Actually the idea came from SMRPG and Peach's War Fan, I though it'd be cool to have a character who fought with such an unconventional weapon.
25. Nope, this one is also based of a real person. Not Rambo though. Someone BIGGER. Also, there's a Smash influence in him too. Two of them actually. He's a hybrid of two Smash characters in combat abilities.

 

[Deleted member]

I can draw a little actually, but nothing on par with something like Leonardo. Mainly it's just random doodles out of boredom. I can draw more then simple stick figures and got the concept of expressions down, but prospective is not my strong suit.

Drawing? The best I can do is drawing simple characters like Kirby or some Pokémon (like Diglett, Magnemite or Wobbuffet).

The fact that I have a physical disability due to birth complications doesn't help at all, even though it has become milder over the years (thankfully).

Whoa, those are some awesome drawings. Nine-Tailed Fox girl reminds me of Ahri from LoL, nice. It's a shame I don't know anything about video games or how to draw. But coming up with character designs/concepts sounds like fun. Who knows, maybe I'll try to come up with some original characters someday (though they're probably gonna look awful).

Well, the idea is just to write out concepts more than anything. I drew them because I like to draw and I like to visualize things. Plus it gives me a lot to work with and it's rather fun. But a simple description will do, like so:

>An undead, self-dismembering Goth girl who uses a Jojo-inspired spectre with her appearance being a female, Goth girl Jotaro

>A blind Hawkeye/Green Arrow-esque Archer

>A shark-themed speedster with the ability to "swim" underground

>A loudmouth Japanese otaku turned Tokusatsu cyborg hero based on a fire ant with flame-based abilities

>A grim Batman-esque vigilante with bits of Zero and Hakumen thrown in, who unlike the comic character he's influenced by, is willing to kill certain criminals with a wrist gun

>A female Spider-Man esque cricket-themed superheroine wearing a Symphogear-esque battle suit with sound abilities

>A Tengu-themed ninja with wind-based powers and the ability to turn his body into complete air

Then you just think of a moveset and stuff. But it really shows you just how much thought goes into each character. How saying that a roster could get away with 50 characters is a huge stretch, especially if you wanna make it clone free. Because as I said, you can come up with concepts, but then giving them movesets, strategies, and making them diverse takes a lot more work than people think. Then you gotta program and balance them, and that's 90% if the work.

Anyway, at Corph, nice job on catching the Ahri influence, I actually did use that character as a bit of influence. Not so much in the design, but rather in the concept. When I saw a picture of Ahri, I KNEW I wanted a Kyuubi inspired Zoner. For anyone wondering, that's the Zelda. The design though comes more from Skegoku Rance and Fate, as well as the original Folk-lore.

 

[~automatic]

Those are some sweet drawings, manly.

 

[Big-Cat]

Stay classy.

As always, my lord.

hints

I'm notorious for making bizarre conclusions, so I'll try again.
2. MODOK
4. Jill Dozer
5. IDK then.
7. I was thinking of more of a videogame influence, so the use of the Kyuubi threw me off.
10. I believe I found the Link.
11. I got it. It's Marth with some girl.
12. Ussop
14. Palutena
15. Wind Waker Ganondorf
16. Wario
17. Giegue was the main villain of the first MOTHER game. In turn, he was the inspiration for Mewtwo's design. You may know him as Giygas.
19. Saki (ponytail) and Treasure Planet
20. I swear I have seen a Digimon that looks like that one. I can only think of Puppetmon and Wizardmon.
25. The Terminator with Fox and Wolf minus the fur.

 

[Arcadenik]

March... only 3 more months... please hurry... quench my thrist... the drought... too much...

 

[FlareHabanero]

March... only 3 more months... please hurry... quench my thrist... the drought... too much...

Please be patient.

 

[Big-Cat]

March... only 3 more months... please hurry... quench my thrist... the drought... too much...

Laura said she waited for 16 years and what was three days then for her.

 

[Deleted member]

As always, my lord.


I'm notorious for making bizarre conclusions, so I'll try again.
2. MODOK
4. Jill Dozer
5. IDK then.
7. I was thinking of more of a videogame influence, so the use of the Kyuubi threw me off.
10. I believe I found the Link.
11. I got it. It's Marth with some girl.
12. Ussop
14. Palutena
15. Wind Waker Ganondorf
16. Wario
17. Giegue was the main villain of the first MOTHER game. In turn, he was the inspiration for Mewtwo's design. You may know him as Giygas.
19. Saki (ponytail) and Treasure Planet
20. I swear I have seen a Digimon that looks like that one. I can only think of Puppetmon and Wizardmon.
25. The Terminator with Fox and Wolf minus the fur.

Spoiler

2.

4. The Loli's kinda hard to explain as I pulled a little from everywhere since I've never drawn a loli before, so I had to hunt for ideas. The Robot should be easier though. There's an obvious Smash influence there.
5. From Muse

10. Bingo
11. Not quite, think of a FABULOUS anime character, though you are right, he would be the "Marth." Though, more akin to Jin Kisaragi, minus the Yandere deal.
12. Yep, a bit of that, also Sabo.
14. Yep, as well as Joann D'Arc
15. Not exactly WW Ganondorf, but Ganondorf in general, though I see why you thought of WW with the swords and all. There's a bit of Zaraki Kenpachi in there as well.
16. Plus a little from somewhere else, see if you can pull it.
17. Ahh, I see, yeah I get the reference, that's a reference withing a reference... Holy crap.
19. Spot on
20.

25. Not The Terminator, but the same Actor, different movie, his other biggest movie. As for the Smash characters... More Human. Both of them. Both Heavies.

Please be patient.

He said with a broken wrist and work pending to be done...

 

[Big-Cat]

Ah, Diaboromon.

 

[FlareHabanero]

He said with a broken wrist and work pending to be done...

If he can convert our tears and anger into youth, then I'm pretty sure the guy can heal a broken wrist easily.

 

[Frostwraith]

Eventually, we find out that the injury is a lie conveniently said to justify endless delays.
Should I remind you that this is the fourth game in the series? There was this other game series, whose fourth game took forever to release. I already bolded part of that game's title, so figure out the rest by yourself.

Also, four is a number associated with death in Asian countries, leading to superstitions not unlike those related to the unlucky 13.

As you can see, this is no coincidence. This is a conspiracy.

 

[Deleted member]

This is an OLD post, but I think this is kind of importaint.

The idea that there are no patterns is just as ludicrous as thinking they are everyone. It's like everything. You have to have balance. There are patterns in each game. It's silly to think there aren't any at all. If there was no consistency, then most of what we've been doing, trying to understand the roster selection, is pointless.

Regarding patterns, I won't say that there aren't any but it's difficult to say one is a definitive pattern. Of course we can say that Sakurai's rules for including characters (must be of video game origin and must have been in a Nintendo platform) is a safe pattern, but most patterns can be broken if Sakurai deems the pattern to be unnecessary. Most people though third-parties would never get in a Smash game yet Brawl gave us two third-parties.

 

[---]

This is an OLD post, but I think this is kind of importaint.

The idea that there are no patterns is just as ludicrous as thinking they are everyone. It's like everything. You have to have balance. There are patterns in each game. It's silly to think there aren't any at all. If there was no consistency, then most of what we've been doing, trying to understand the roster selection, is pointless.

Not sure if I completely agree, it's really really hard to explain no matter what side I take. But for the 13 characters being added stuff, it maybe could be called a pattern, but it's obvious the intent was purely reasonable thinking/common sense.

Most people hate me because what I say they don't like to hear. I have to be wrong on everything it seems. Thanks for pointing this out. It's good to know I have a friend like you Oasis.

I honestly agree with you on most of your posts (Karate Joe and Sheriff?), but I don't know very much about the competitive scene to try and help you out/carry on the conversation (so I'm more of a neutral party), not to mention those threads make me sick to my stomach.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well knowing about the competitive scene isn't that hard. All you have to do is pay attention instead of covering your ears like a pansy.

 

[~automatic]

I honestly agree with you on most of your posts (Karate Joe and Sheriff?), but I don't know very much about the competitive scene to try and help you out/carry on the conversation (so I'm more of a neutral party), not to mention those threads make me sick to my stomach.

What does the competitive scene have to do Knuckle Joe and Sheriff?

 

[FlareHabanero]

What does the competitive scene have to do Knuckle Joe and Sheriff?

Absolutely nothing, --- was just wondering about the logic behind Karate Joe and Sheriff that SmashChu spews out.

 

[---]

Well knowing about the competitive scene isn't that hard.

I'd probably pay attention to scene if I had the time/money/location to start trying to become a tad more competitive myself. It also feels weird to me to start joining into a scene that's been around for a while, I'd rather be a wimp and wait for a fresh start with Smash 4.

As for Smash 4 competitive wise, I'd like to see it stay as easy to get into as Brawl was, but I would like to see some more depth like Melee, all while not being 64/Melee/Brawl 2.0. Perfect for me would be: Brawl's Gravity, a midway point between Melee/Brawl's speed and hitstun, and a few more ATs, also no MKs/Mewtwos.

So yeah, I'm mostly neutral on the casual/competitive stuff. I just usually end up agreeing with SmashChu (besides already being a poster that I respect) a lot more because I either have too many misunderstandings to really comment on anything, dislike seeing games that I like (usually Brawl) being viciously ripped apart so much, and just general disagreements (like making Smash 4 Melee 2.0). Plus I do like and agree with Sakurai's approach to gaming in general.

What does the competitive scene have to do Knuckle Joe and Sheriff?

Mostly a tease because SmashChu supports those characters.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'd probably pay attention to scene if I had the time/money/location to start trying to become a tad more competitive myself. It also feels weird to me to start joining into a scene that's been around for a while, I'd rather be a wimp and wait for a fresh start with Smash 4.

It's not so bad. Just don't be a SmashChu with the players in your scene and be polite. They should be more than willing to help.

 

[Oasis_S]

Most people hate me because what I say they don't like to hear. I have to be wrong on everything it seems. Thanks for pointing this out. It's good to know I have a friend like you Oasis.

Everything will be okay, Chu. I wouldn't let anyone hurt you.

It's weird though. I used to like a lot of what Kuma said, but as I listened more to you, I began to understand what was really important in life.

 

[Big-Cat]

It's weird though. I used to like a lot of what Kuma said, but as I listened more to you, I began to understand what was really important in life.

Giant pieces of poo and bugs?

 

[Oasis_S]

One day, when you are Stronger, maybe you'll understand.

 

[FalKoopa]

Your bolded S have become harder to spot.

 

[Oasis_S]

...h-hey now ...don't you know i'm very...

Sensitive about that...

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

You could increase the font size of the s

 

[S P O N G E]

big the cat in ssb4 anyone?

 

[ChronoBound]

Since Shortie has not posted the results to his poll in a while, I am going to post the latest results, which are now around 450-ish.

Mewtwo (242)
Mega Man (242)
K. Rool (203)
Ridley (202)
Little Mac (181)
Isaac (155)
Palutena (147)
Shulk (13o)
Roy (122)
Waluigi (115)
Takamaru (114)
Ghirahim (106)
Bowser Jr. (102)
Pac-Man (91)
Zoroark (89)
Chrom (89)
Toad (87)
Geno (82)
Dixie Kong (81)
Saki (81)
Krystal (80)
Samurai Goroh (73)
Black Shadow (48)
Waddle Dee (47)
Mona (45)

Not much has really changed. The last time I made commentary though, Goroh was one of the ones leading the pack in the green category, now he is clearly falling behind the rest of that category.

Anyway, here is some commentary on each character and their position in the poll:

Mewtwo:
Its no surprise he is at the top. A lot of people were genuinely surprised at his removal in Smash Bros. He is probably the most popular legendary Pokemon. Being an iconic character for Nintendo's biggest franchise next to Mario as well as already having been a playable character in Smash Bros. makes him one of the top choices for Smash 4 especially for the diminished pool we have now. I would go on to say that Mewtwo is definitely unveil trailer material, though, I don't think it is likely to happen (though he is definitely a candidate). He is probably the most wanted character in Japan as well, so for him to put on a repeat performance in the West, is no surprise.

Mega Man:
As with Mewtwo, its not surprise he is topping this poll. He is probably the third-party character most synonymous with Nintendo, and unlike most other characters for this poll, he is the star to a major series. Being incredibly popular among Nintendo fans, as well as being amongst Capcom's most famous properties, Mega Man probably has the most starpower of any potential newcomer to Smash 4. Mega Man is one of the top candidates to be shown off at the E3 2013 unveil due to how much starpower he has relative to other potential Smash 4 newcomers. Mega Man too is also amongst the most highly wanted newcomers for Smash 4 for the Japanese fanbase (probably the most wanted character after the two cut Melee veterans).

K. Rool:
K. Rool is lower than Mewtwo and Mega Man, but still much higher than any other character (except Ridley). Being considered the main villain for the DK series, one of Nintendo's more popular properties, is a large reason behind this. Although he has not made a game appearance in half a decade, his popularity maintains due to the staying power and popularity of Rare's DK games (all three of the games to the DKC trilogy were among the Top 10 best selling games for the Super Nintendo, while Donkey Kong 64 was within the Top 10 best selling games for the Nintendo 64). K. Rool is probably one of the two most wanted "true newcomer" (since Mewtwo and Roy were already in Smash) by the Japanese fanbase, so this is not a Western phenomenon (which is no surprise considering how well Rare's DK games sold in Japan). K. Rool is a candidate for a potential E3 2013 unveil due to his popularity and starpower relative to most other Smash 4 newcomers.

Ridley:
Ridley, like K. Rool, is lower than Mewtwo and Mega Man, but still much higher than any other character. As too with K. Rool, Ridley being considered the main villain for the Metroid series, one of Nintendo's more popular properties, is the major push behind this. Unlike K. Rool, Ridley made at least two major appearances since Brawl's release (maybe three, considering Prime 3 was released after Brawl in Japan, and Prime 3 received no content in Brawl). Ridley is one of the few iconic Nintendo characters not already playable in Smash Bros., making a prominent appearance in the Metroid attraction in Nintendo Land (where even there he is described as being Samus's arch-nemesis). Metroid nowadays has most of its popularity based in the West, and at this point half the games in the series have been developed by Western teams. Although there is not much interest for Ridley amongst the Japanese fanbase, there is acknowledgement about his overseas popularity. Ridley like with the previously mentioned characters so far, is a top contender for an unveil newcomer at E3 2013, especially considering the show is a Western venue as well as him being far more menacing and "cool" as far as potential villainous newcomers go.

Little Mac:
Little Mac is below the Big 4, but he is still amongst the most wanted characters by the Western fanbase. He is the most popular and iconic character for one of Nintendo's lesser known series, Punch-Out, which has a strong fan following in the West. The release and success of a new installment in this series since Brawl's release has contributed a lot to the interest in seeing Little Mac added. In regards to adding characters for series not already represented with a playable character, Little Mac is amongst the most attractive candidates for Sakurai to look at (especially considering how long-running Punch-Out has been). As with Ridley before, Little Mac does not have much interest in Japan, though like Ridley, there too is an acknowledgement about his overseas popularity. Punch-Out, like Metroid, is mostly a Western series nowadays (though since the very beginning Punch-Out has had most of interest from Westerners as well as probably being geared at towards Westerners). As with all the characters mentioned so far, Little Mac is a candidate for being an "unveil newcomer" at E3 2013 due to his starpower in the West.

Isaac:
Isaac is basically another Little Mac, but with slightly less popularity. He is basically the Marth of Golden Sun (the protagonist of the first game of the series, yet by far the most popular main protagonist overall). Like Punch-Out, Golden Sun received a new installment after Brawl's release, although it was not received as well as its GBA predecessors. I am really surprised about how much Isaac's popularity has held considering the GBA games were released a decade ago. As with Little Mac, amongst series that do not already have a playable character in Smash Bros., Isaac is one of the best choices. Camelot may have to make a new Golden Sun as their next project once they get done releasing Mario Golf for the 3DS, considering they may not have the resources to make a game for the Wii U. However, Isaac being amongst the West's most wanted characters after all these years really shows the staying power and cult following that the Golden Sun series has. One might say he is possibly competing with Shulk (another blonde-haired RPG protagonist that has a cult following), however, although Xenoblade has much accolades, it never enjoyed the sales success that the GBA Golden Sun games enjoyed. The re-release of the GBA Golden Sun games for the Virtual Console could spark even more interest in Isaac (and possibly the series overall), or at the very least help Isaac maintain the interest he already has.

Palutena:
Palutena is not as big as the series heroes Little Mac and Isaac, but she is definitely in the big leagues as far as requests go. Amongst potential female newcomers, she is definitely by far the best choice (considering unlike nearly every other possible female newcomer, she is actually IMPORTANT to her franchise, to the point the series is even named after her in Japan). No other female character comes close to Palutena for requests (with Dixie Kong and Krystal being distant seconds). Her personality and banter with Pit in Uprising endeared many people to her. The only real obstacle standing in her way is Sakurai feeling too humble to use her (since Uprising was his baby) or feeling that a series as small as Kid Icarus does not warrant two playable characters. Regardless, she is definitely among the top candidates to be shown as a newcomer at E3 2013, especially if a possible female newcomer is shown. She may be the only good choice as far as attractive female newcomer characters go.

Shulk:
Shulk is pretty much riding the waves of the cult following and accolades that Xenoblade has. Unlike Isaac though, much less people have played Xenoblade though (a used copy at this point is $60+), which is probably the primary reason why there is less interest for him. He is also a character from a stand alone game (though "X" may change that). However, considering that he is one of the few noteworthy "new" characters to show up since Brawl's release, Sakurai may be more lenient on him. If Shulk turns out to be a protagonist in "X" I expect his popularity to increase further, its also possible that "X"'s main protagonist (whoever that is) eats Shulk's lunch and basically causes the interest in Shulk to depreciate.

Roy:
Roy being among the West's Top 10 most wanted characters for Smash 4 should not come as a surprise. He was amongst the most popular newcomers in Melee, and still to this day is considered amongst the most iconic and well-known faces to that Fire Emblem franchise even in the West (just see how he is being promoted for FE13's DLC by NOA). As with Mewtwo, he almost made it into Brawl. Hailing from the much smaller Fire Emblem franchise (especially in the West), there is less interest for Roy than Mewtwo though. As with Isaac, his popularity maintaining after all these years shows his staying power. In Japan, Roy is probably the most wanted "newcomer" for Smash 4 outside of Mewtwo (who is probably the most wanted character overall). The high amount of interest for Roy internationally is the prime reason why I think Sakurai may opt to give Fire Emblem four slots this time around (especially if he does decide to bring in Chrom).

Waluigi:
Perhaps the most surprising character to be as high as he is. Waluigi is definitely not as important to the main series as Bowser Jr. and Toad are, but yet seems to have more fans. I think this primarily comes from Waluigi having much more of a personality than Bowser Jr. and Toad, and his overall "meme" status (see Brawl in the Family). I think overall he is probably the least likely of the four major candidates for a Mario newcomer (the other three being Toad, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario), since his only advantage is "popularity" of which even that its only a slight leap compared to the other characters. I think if Waluigi were to have a role outside of being merely just another face on the roster to the Mario spinoffs, he would become a strong candidate for inclusion for Smash 5.

Takamaru:
Again, for some, it might be surprising to see him as high as he is, however, amongst possible retro characters he is easily the most attractive choice. There has been a lot of interest for katana using character (or at least a character with an Eastern swordplay style) and Takamaru is easily the best choice for one (since he could probably bring other Japanese weapons to the table as well such as shurikens). Takamaru and (his game) have had references in a slew of a games going back to Pikmin 2. Since Brawl's release he has showed up in several releases (Captain Rainbow, Samurai Warriors 3, Nintendo Land). With the attraction he had in Nintendo Land (Takamaru's Ninja Castle), he finally has the launch pad needed to get placed into Smash Bros. despite his source game (Nazo no Murasame) being Japan-only. Takamaru's chances of being amongst the first newcomers unveiled for E3 2013 is amongst the highest, especially if Sakurai decided show off a "retro revival" character like he did with Melee and Brawl.

Ghirahim:
Ghirahim, like Midna during pre-Brawl, has a lot of requests for Smash 4 as a result of being a major character in the most recently released home console Zelda. Skyward Sword being perhaps the most weakly received home console 3D Zelda, is probably the main reason why interest in him is not higher. There is definitely far more interest in him than any other potential Zelda newcomer, however, considering how the character (like Midna), is probably just another one-shot, Sakurai will probably skip over him, even if he does end up using Skyward Sword as the basis for the designs for Link and Zelda. However, if Zelda does end up getting a newcomer, he is amongst the top candidates to be selected. However, I think like with Midna, interest in him will depreciate once we see the next home console Zelda.

Bowser Jr.:
Bowser Jr. has been a mainstay in the main Mario series since Super Mario Sunshine, so its no surprise he is higher than most other characters. All the important Mario characters have been in since Melee (maybe Brawl if you count Wario), so its not really peculiar why Mario characters are not higher than they are even amongst the depreciated possible newcomer pool that Smash 4 has.

Pac-Man
Pac-Man is at the top of the list for the drop after Bowser Jr. Pac-Man being at the top is primarily due to him hailing from possibly the most iconic arcade game next to Donkey Kong, as well as Namco developing Smash 4. That Pac-Man is as low as he is shows how little interest there is to add another third-party newcomer outside of Mega Man. I do think though there is a good chance we will get a Namco character in Smash 4 (possibly even more than one) and Pac-Man is one of the top candidates for that. I think some sort of Namco character (of which the top candidates would be Pac-Man or a Tales character) is amongst the top candidates for a newcomer at the E3 2013 Smash 4 unveil.

Zoroark:
Zoroark is probably the most iconic Pokemon from the Black/White generation, however, he never caught on like Lucario did (probably due to being seen as too much of a retread of him), this even though Black/White was received better than Diamond/Pearl. However, Zoroark being this high in the poll, is impressive considering the announcement of Pokemon X/Y and announcement of Mewtwo's return in the latest Pokemon movie. However, I think while he is still plausible for Smash 4, he may have missed his chance.

Chrom:
Chrom is basically the Zoroark of the Fire Emblem series. He even has the same amount of votes as him. Like with Zoroark, his popularity is probably hurt by being seen as too much of a retread of a character already in Smash Bros. (in Chrom's case its Ike). Chrom's chances though are much better than Zoroark's though due to being much more "current". I expect Chrom's popularity to hold (while Zoroark's will gradually depreciate) since there may not be new FE game released in a while.

Toad:
I am really surprised that Toad is not higher than he is. He is a very iconic Mario character and has been with the Super Mario franchise since the very beginning. He is the only character left at this point that has been playable in the Mario platformers not yet playable in Smash Bros. I think the primary reason for why Toad is not the most wanted Mario newcomer despite his iconic status and Mario series seniority is due to being seen as "bland" and already being involved for one of Peach's special moves for two games going on now. I think though interest in Toad has been massively helped by the New Super Mario Bros. games as now I have seen far more interest in him as a playable character than I have ever seen for any other Smash Bros. game.

Geno:
This character had quite the cult following, and he still does to some extent. However, there is definitely less interest in him this time than the other four major Mario newcomer candidates (Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Waluigi). For a one-shot side character though, his performance in the poll is quite strong, though there is far better (more worthy) choices than him (I would say even Dr. Mario and Waluigi have better merits than Geno).

Dixie Kong:
Dixie Kong is basically where K. Rool was for much of pre-Brawl, in the shadow of a much more prominent DK character (in K. Rool's case it was Diddy Kong). I think like K. Rool, there will definitely be more interest in her once K. Rool is confirmed for Smash 4, though how much of an increase she will enjoy remains to be determined.

Saki:
There initially seemed to be a lot of interest in Saki after Brawl's release, but now it seems to have died down. The Sin & Punishment series never had the following that Punch-Out and Golden Sun had, and it never received the accolades that Xenoblade received. It will probably end up that Isa gets in as an Assist Trophy, and that we get a music track or two from Sin & Punishment 2 for one of Smash 4's stages.

Krystal:
Krystal (along with Dixie Kong) are definitely the second-most wanted female newcomers for Smash 4. However, her popularity (like with Geno's) has crashed big time compared to the pre-Brawl days. I think the primary reasons for this are Star Fox not having received a proper new installment since 2006 (thus making many people think the SF series does not warrant four slots), Palutena eating her lunch (a lot of the people that backed Krystal wanted another "sexy" female for Smash Bros. and saw Krystal as the most likely candidate for that, however, with the advent of Palutena and her actually being a proper human instead of merely anthropomorphic, I think a lot of the Krystal backers may have flocked over to her), and that the negative connotation of the games that she has been in has survived longer than the positive experiences with them (or rather outnumbers it).

Samurai Goroh:
Samurai Goroh is definitely by far the preferred choice for a second F-Zerro character, however, there is definitely less interest for him than any other character in this poll outside of the three bottom tier characters. Like with Krystal, I think one of primary culprits is his last game appearance having been released so long ago (in Goroh's case being late 2004). I think Goroh could be doing a lot better even in this environment (especially when looking at characters like Isaac), considering how depreciated the pool of potential newcomers are this time around.

Black Shadow:
Black Shadow is amongst the three characters far lower than every other character in this poll. This is not a surprise considering like Goroh, his last game appearance was in late 2004, and that much of his appeal lies with him gaining Ganondorf's Melee/Brawl moveset while Ganondorf gets a new one (thus the people who loved a slower, more powerful version of Falcon's moveset would still have a character that has it).

Waddle Dee:
I think while Bandana Dee is definitely next in line for a Kirby newcomer, and that while he would make an interesting character choice, there frankly is not much interest in him (or a Kirby newcomer in general). I think if more people had played Return to Dream Land (or rather if Return to Dream Land was released earlier in the Wii's life) there would have been far more interest in him than there is now. I think he will eventually get into Smash Bros. if he continues to have roles like he did in Return to Dream Land.

Mona:
While I think Mona is probably the most wanted possible Wario newcomer, I think its basically akin to being the tallest ******. There is just little interest in there being a Wario newcomer despite the Wario series being bigger than many of the series in Smash Bros. I think if Sakurai for some reason skips on Palutena, Mona would be one of his top picks for a female newcomer.

I think overall in the West the Top 10 most wanted characters is basically:
1.Mewtwo
2. Mega Man
3. Ridley
4. K. Rool
5. Little Mac
6. Isaac
7. Palutena
8. Shulk
9. Roy
10. Takamaru

Honorable mention: Waluigi (I think he is on par with Takamaru, though he has far more detractors than any other character in the Top 10).

 

[Vintage Creep]

I'll never understand people who want Waluigi in Sm4sh. Never. He's such a cheap character. Paper Mario, Bowser Jr. and Toad are by far a better choice for a new Mario Bros. rep. Not seeing Paper Mario in this list hurts me but I think Nintendo will are about the selling, and since Sticker Star was the most successful installment in the series I can still hope. It surprises me that Roy is that wanted. I've never been a Fire Emblem player so I don't really know, is his fanbase that big because of his importance in the franchise, or just because he's a "lost melee" character?

 

[ChronoBound]

It surprises me that Roy is that wanted. I've never been a Fire Emblem player so I don't really know, is his fanbase that big because of his importance in the franchise, or just because he's a "lost melee" character?

In the context to the FE franchise, Roy's importance is pretty much to the Elibe arc (FE6 and FE7) much like Ike's importance is to the Tellius arc (FE9 and FE10).

His popularity derives from as I said under his entry due to being amongst the most popular characters introduced in Melee and introducing the West to Fire Emblem (along with Marth).

Considering, there is little interest in the return of Dr. Mario and Pichu, his popularity is not from being cut.

You should read all the entries in the post I made for the context about why they are where they are on the poll.

 

[FalKoopa]

Waluigi is famous for his notoreity.

 

[JPW]

Roy isn't even a unit in FE7. He's basically just a child in the ending story.

7 and 6 are supposed to be around the other way. I don't understand Roy's popularity either, i was more of a Marth fan in Melee. My brother was the Roy fan.

 

[FalKoopa]

My brother liked him solely for that 1-hit KO. (And the multi-hitting up B as well)

 

[SmashChu]

Everything will be okay, Chu. I wouldn't let anyone hurt you.

ahhh

It's weird though. I used to like a lot of what Kuma said, but as I listened more to you, I began to understand what was really important in life.

Being successful and financial free! Funny you say that. I'm going to a seminar on real estate investing. My goal is to have a party for SSB4 in a swanky hotel suite. There is a reason I talk about sales so much.

Regarding patterns, I won't say that there aren't any but it's difficult to say one is a definitive pattern. Of course we can say that Sakurai's rules for including characters (must be of video game origin and must have been in a Nintendo platform) is a safe pattern, but most patterns can be broken if Sakurai deems the pattern to be unnecessary. Most people though third-parties would never get in a Smash game yet Brawl gave us two third-parties.

I can see that. Like you said, Sakurai tends to surprise everyone, but, and I think you'll agree with me on this, that there are some set ideas he uses in selecting characters. I think people are so against the patterns because there are some people who try to find them where they don't exist. I say walk the middle ground.

Also, props Chrono for you big post. I'll respond to you but I agree with your analysis. One thing that would have been nice was to have Dillon on the poll to see how well he does.

 

[SmashShadow]

I want all of the top 10 in but I don't support Shulk...yet. If he turns out to be a character in that "X" game then I'll support him but until then he just feels like another 1-shot to me.

 

[peeup]

Some patterns pattern to be patterned patternately, but to pattern paternally could patent a patient patient patiently.

 

[Oasis_S]

Being successful and financial free! Funny you say that. I'm going to a seminar on real estate investing. My goal is to have a party for SSB4 in a swanky hotel suite. There is a reason I talk about sales so much.

I am neither of those things. Though I am successful of freeing myself of having any finances whatsoever.

 

[Deleted member]

Don't you hate it when you read a post in the morning, and have something to say, but don't get a chance to type it till much later, and by the time you are able to sit down and do it, you've forgotten what it was?

I HATE that...

It was something important too...

Ah, **** it.

Anyway, I sometimes agree with Chu, though I find myself disagreeing with him more often than not. Still, I think the problem most people have is not that they disagree with him, but rather that he's really stubborn about some things. I've said it before "it takes a bigger man to know when to quit," not just in the sense of coming to the realization your actions are futile, but also of knowing when you're defeated and taking in your loss with pride and learning from someone else.

Part of the reason we have discussions is to learn from one another. I get the impression that a lot of users here, not just Chu, simply wanna flaunt their e-penis and prove how much they know. That attitude doesn't make you look smart and it doesn't earn you anyone's respect. Quite the opposite really. If you don't learn from your debates then what's the point of even coming here in the first place?

Take this for example,
http://smashboards.com/threads/326618/page-3
I get completely dis-proven in a topic I thought I knew a lot about, and I swallowed my pride and humbly conceded to the other person. Admitting you're wrong takes a lot of guts, but it goes a long way in showing that you are willing and able to learn from others.

Anyway, this isn't intended to be an attack on anyone particularly. I'm not pointing fingers at anyone, not even Chu. I'm simply giving my opinion and some sound advice so that discussion around here becomes more productive rather than the usual debates that go round and round in circles because people keep trying to prove a point.

All I'm saying is take heed to what others say, whether you agree or not with what they say. Believe it or not, you may learn something every once in a while.

One day, when you are Stronger, maybe you'll understand.

Oh yeah? How tough are you?

 

[FlareHabanero]

Mewtwo:
Its no surprise he is at the top. A lot of people were genuinely surprised at his removal in Smash Bros. He is probably the most popular legendary Pokemon. Being an iconic character for Nintendo's biggest franchise next to Mario as well as already having been a playable character in Smash Bros. makes him one of the top choices for Smash 4 especially for the diminished pool we have now. I would go on to say that Mewtwo is definitely unveil trailer material, though, I don't think it is likely to happen (though he is definitely a candidate). He is probably the most wanted character in Japan as well, so for him to put on a repeat performance in the West, is no surprise.

The irony of this is that people hated Mewtwo in Melee and wanted him cut. Of course when Mewtwo was cut, people then made a 180 degree turn and start to love him again and want him back. To me that simply sounds ******** and I question the mentality of people.

Mega Man:
As with Mewtwo, its not surprise he is topping this poll. He is probably the third-party character most synonymous with Nintendo, and unlike most other characters for this poll, he is the star to a major series. Being incredibly popular among Nintendo fans, as well as being amongst Capcom's most famous properties, Mega Man probably has the most starpower of any potential newcomer to Smash 4. Mega Man is one of the top candidates to be shown off at the E3 2013 unveil due to how much starpower he has relative to other potential Smash 4 newcomers. Mega Man too is also amongst the most highly wanted newcomers for Smash 4 for the Japanese fanbase (probably the most wanted character after the two cut Melee veterans).

Mega Man is probably one of the bigger names out there, especially in Japan. It's kind of an inverted case with Sonic in a sense when you think about it. But I will say that Mega Man could be the thing that starts that Nintendo vs. Capcom idea thrown around, which would be awesome.

K. Rool:
K. Rool is lower than Mewtwo and Mega Man, but still much higher than any other character (except Ridley). Being considered the main villain for the DK series, one of Nintendo's more popular properties, is a large reason behind this. Although he has not made a game appearance in half a decade, his popularity maintains due to the staying power and popularity of Rare's DK games (all three of the games to the DKC trilogy were among the Top 10 best selling games for the Super Nintendo, while Donkey Kong 64 was within the Top 10 best selling games for the Nintendo 64). K. Rool is probably one of the two most wanted "true newcomer" (since Mewtwo and Roy were already in Smash) by the Japanese fanbase, so this is not a Western phenomenon (which is no surprise considering how well Rare's DK games sold in Japan). K. Rool is a candidate for a potential E3 2013 unveil due to his popularity and starpower relative to most other Smash 4 newcomers.

K. Rool getting a lot of support in Japan caught me off guard, mainly becuase the character doesn't seem that appealing to a Japanese audience. But then I did research on why and it's because Donkey Kong Country is surprisingly more popular then I expected in Japan. In particular, Donkey Kong Country 2 and Donkey Kong Country 3 actually sold better in Japan, and the cartoon show received exclusive merchandise.

Isaac:
Isaac is basically another Little Mac, but with slightly less popularity. He is basically the Marth of Golden Sun (the protagonist of the first game of the series, yet by far the most popular main protagonist overall). Like Punch-Out, Golden Sun received a new installment after Brawl's release, although it was not received as well as its GBA predecessors. I am really surprised about how much Isaac's popularity has held considering the GBA games were released a decade ago. As with Little Mac, amongst series that do not already have a playable character in Smash Bros., Isaac is one of the best choices. Camelot may have to make a new Golden Sun as their next project once they get done releasing Mario Golf for the 3DS, considering they may not have the resources to make a game for the Wii U. However, Isaac being amongst the West's most wanted characters after all these years really shows the staying power and cult following that the Golden Sun series has. One might say he is possibly competing with Shulk (another blonde-haired RPG protagonist that has a cult following), however, although Xenoblade has much accolades, it never enjoyed the sales success that the GBA Golden Sun games enjoyed. The re-release of the GBA Golden Sun games for the Virtual Console could spark even more interest in Isaac (and possibly the series overall), or at the very least help Isaac maintain the interest he already has.

You can't exactly compare Golden Sun to Xenoblade for a few reasons.

1. Xenoblade was released late into the life of the Wii, while Golden Sun was released early into the life of the GBA.
2. Golden Sun got consistent localization, Xenoblade had release dates separated by years.
3. The Wii was region locked, in other words no porting.
4. We practically had to beg for localization.
5. Xenoblade is expensive as hell (a new copy can go for over $200).

As for why Issac is still holding water to this day, I think it's from the prospective of nostalgia and move set potential. I'm not into the former though and find Golden Sun to be kind of bland.

Palutena:
Palutena is not as big as the series heroes Little Mac and Isaac, but she is definitely in the big leagues as far as requests go. Amongst potential female newcomers, she is definitely by far the best choice (considering unlike nearly every other possible female newcomer, she is actually IMPORTANT to her franchise, to the point the series is even named after her in Japan). No other female character comes close to Palutena for requests (with Dixie Kong and Krystal being distant seconds). Her personality and banter with Pit in Uprising endeared many people to her. The only real obstacle standing in her way is Sakurai feeling too humble to use her (since Uprising was his baby) or feeling that a series as small as Kid Icarus does not warrant two playable characters. Regardless, she is definitely among the top candidates to be shown as a newcomer at E3 2013, especially if a possible female newcomer is shown. She may be the only good choice as far as attractive female newcomer characters go.

Palutena is the only female worth bothering with. Even then, it's simply not for the sake of simply having breasts.
Like you mentioned, the character is important enough to be mentioned in the title (at least in Japan) in a vein to how Zelda is mentioned in the title despite being regulated to the sidelines. This is even reflected in Brawl where she makes an abnormal amount of cameos in the game.

Also yes, I did enjoy the character more then expected. It's unusual because she's a bit of a ditz and is a bit of a jerk at times, but I suppose it works in context. I mean, the general tone is goofy and gods in Greek mythology are kind of pricks.

Shulk:
Shulk is pretty much riding the waves of the cult following and accolades that Xenoblade has. Unlike Isaac though, much less people have played Xenoblade though (a used copy at this point is $60+), which is probably the primary reason why there is less interest for him. He is also a character from a stand alone game (though "X" may change that). However, considering that he is one of the few noteworthy "new" characters to show up since Brawl's release, Sakurai may be more lenient on him. If Shulk turns out to be a protagonist in "X" I expect his popularity to increase further, its also possible that "X"'s main protagonist (whoever that is) eats Shulk's lunch and basically causes the interest in Shulk to depreciate.

I will say that Xenoblade as a whole is probably one of the biggest sleeper hits ever in the video game industry; it was the game the defied all odds that were thrown out at it and it crawled to the top. It seems like the people at Monolith Soft are even aware of this since their next project is heavily influenced by Xenoblade with heavy hints of it being a sequel. Honestly at this point, I'd be disappointed if a huge game like Xenoblade was completely ignored.

Also Shulk is not going to simply disappear. A blond haired guy around the end of the X trailer looks extremely similar to Shulk, and the fact that protagonists don't simply vanish (Saki, Isaac) because something comes along.

Roy:
Roy being among the West's Top 10 most wanted characters for Smash 4 should not come as a surprise. He was amongst the most popular newcomers in Melee, and still to this day is considered amongst the most iconic and well-known faces to that Fire Emblem franchise even in the West (just see how he is being promoted for FE13's DLC by NOA). As with Mewtwo, he almost made it into Brawl. Hailing from the much smaller Fire Emblem franchise (especially in the West), there is less interest for Roy than Mewtwo though. As with Isaac, his popularity maintaining after all these years shows his staying power. In Japan, Roy is probably the most wanted "newcomer" for Smash 4 outside of Mewtwo (who is probably the most wanted character overall). The high amount of interest for Roy internationally is the prime reason why I think Sakurai may opt to give Fire Emblem four slots this time around (especially if he does decide to bring in Chrom).

It's odd because people back in the days of speculation were anticipating Roy to be cut. Seeing Roy getting support to be brought back is very odd to me.

Waluigi:
Perhaps the most surprising character to be as high as he is. Waluigi is definitely not as important to the main series as Bowser Jr. and Toad are, but yet seems to have more fans. I think this primarily comes from Waluigi having much more of a personality than Bowser Jr. and Toad, and his overall "meme" status (see Brawl in the Family). I think overall he is probably the least likely of the four major candidates for a Mario newcomer (the other three being Toad, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario), since his only advantage is "popularity" of which even that its only a slight leap compared to the other characters. I think if Waluigi were to have a role outside of being merely just another face on the roster to the Mario spinoffs, he would become a strong candidate for inclusion for Smash 5.

Don't see how being part of spin-off should be that big of a deal considering the Mario games have no concrete continuity. Also technically speaking, Dr. Mario comes from a spin off series set in an alternate universe. So one could argue that is a moot point.

As for wondering about why Waluigi's popular? TOO BAD, WALUIGI TIME!

Takamaru:
Again, for some, it might be surprising to see him as high as he is, however, amongst possible retro characters he is easily the most attractive choice. There has been a lot of interest for katana using character (or at least a character with an Eastern swordplay style) and Takamaru is easily the best choice for one (since he could probably bring other Japanese weapons to the table as well such as shurikens). Takamaru and (his game) have had references in a slew of a games going back to Pikmin 2. Since Brawl's release he has showed up in several releases (Captain Rainbow, Samurai Warriors 3, Nintendo Land). With the attraction he had in Nintendo Land (Takamaru's Ninja Castle), he finally has the launch pad needed to get placed into Smash Bros. despite his source game (Nazo no Murasame) being Japan-only. Takamaru's chances of being amongst the first newcomers unveiled for E3 2013 is amongst the highest, especially if Sakurai decided show off a "retro revival" character like he did with Melee and Brawl.

The odd thing is all the appearances in question came after 2000; Mysterious Murasame Castle literally wasn't referenced between 1987 to 2003. I mean Mysterious Murasame Castle bombed in the market place, but why is the game being referenced now in more recent years? Hell, even Kamiya expressed interested at taking a shot at Mysterious Murasame Castle. Sounds kind of suspicious to me, but it's probably a coincidence.

A launch pad is always a good thing, but simply making appearances isn't enough. Takamaru is still a character that is really obscure from a game that bombed with no localization. The character should be picked for something a little different from the norm or to introduce a new fighting style not yet explored. As an vivid supporter, I try my best to get peoples attention.

Still ironic how people in the west care about the character more.

Ghirahim:
Ghirahim, like Midna during pre-Brawl, has a lot of requests for Smash 4 as a result of being a major character in the most recently released home console Zelda. Skyward Sword being perhaps the most weakly received home console 3D Zelda, is probably the main reason why interest in him is not higher. There is definitely far more interest in him than any other potential Zelda newcomer, however, considering how the character (like Midna), is probably just another one-shot, Sakurai will probably skip over him, even if he does end up using Skyward Sword as the basis for the designs for Link and Zelda. However, if Zelda does end up getting a newcomer, he is amongst the top candidates to be selected. However, I think like with Midna, interest in him will depreciate once we see the next home console Zelda.

I think Ghrirahim is going to be overlooked, but the character does hold some more water then Minda. Ghirahim is the reason why Ganon haunts Link and Zelda even exists. If he didn't summon his master Demise, we wouldn't have the timeline and the conflicts between Ganon and Link.

Toad:
I am really surprised that Toad is not higher than he is. He is a very iconic Mario character and has been with the Super Mario franchise since the very beginning. He is the only character left at this point that has been playable in the Mario platformers not yet playable in Smash Bros. I think the primary reason for why Toad is not the most wanted Mario newcomer despite his iconic status and Mario series seniority is due to being seen as "bland" and already being involved for one of Peach's special moves for two games going on now. I think though interest in Toad has been massively helped by the New Super Mario Bros. games as now I have seen far more interest in him as a playable character than I have ever seen for any other Smash Bros. game.

Being bland should not be a deterioration of support. If that's the case, let's remove Donkey Kong and Marth. There is nothing special about them and they won't be missed whatsoever. Besides, what is and isn't bland is a very subjective topic.

Geno:
This character had quite the cult following, and he still does to some extent. However, there is definitely less interest in him this time than the other four major Mario newcomer candidates (Toad, Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, Waluigi). For a one-shot side character though, his performance in the poll is quite strong, though there is far better (more worthy) choices than him (I would say even Dr. Mario and Waluigi have better merits than Geno).

Geno is still really odd considering how very unimportant the character is. I guess people really liked Super Mario RPG that much, but generally speaking the spiritual successors Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi were better.

Dixie Kong:
Dixie Kong is basically where K. Rool was for much of pre-Brawl, in the shadow of a much more prominent DK character (in K. Rool's case it was Diddy Kong). I think like K. Rool, there will definitely be more interest in her once K. Rool is confirmed for Smash 4, though how much of an increase she will enjoy remains to be determined.

It's still slightly ironic how Dixie Kong was considered, but K. Rool has more popularity. I guess being a big ball of ham does wonders.

Saki:
There initially seemed to be a lot of interest in Saki after Brawl's release, but now it seems to have died down. The Sin & Punishment series never had the following that Punch-Out and Golden Sun had, and it never received the accolades that Xenoblade received. It will probably end up that Isa gets in as an Assist Trophy, and that we get a music track or two from Sin & Punishment 2 for one of Smash 4's stages.

Saki was mostly fallacy hogwash anyway. But apparently Sakurai liked Saki enough, so whatever I suppose.

Krystal:
Krystal (along with Dixie Kong) are definitely the second-most wanted female newcomers for Smash 4. However, her popularity (like with Geno's) has crashed big time compared to the pre-Brawl days. I think the primary reasons for this are Star Fox not having received a proper new installment since 2006 (thus making many people think the SF series does not warrant four slots), Palutena eating her lunch (a lot of the people that backed Krystal wanted another "sexy" female for Smash Bros. and saw Krystal as the most likely candidate for that, however, with the advent of Palutena and her actually being a proper human instead of merely anthropomorphic, I think a lot of the Krystal backers may have flocked over to her), and that the negative connotation of the games that she has been in has survived longer than the positive experiences with them (or rather outnumbers it).

The only reason why Krystal was so highly revered was because of her staff and general spite towards clones. Even back in the days people were skeptical of her, and for good reason too. It's not like she was even that attractive to begin with.

Also, PALUTENA IS NOT HUMAN! ****.

Samurai Goroh:
Samurai Goroh is definitely by far the preferred choice for a second F-Zerro character, however, there is definitely less interest for him than any other character in this poll outside of the three bottom tier characters. Like with Krystal, I think one of primary culprits is his last game appearance having been released so long ago (in Goroh's case being late 2004). I think Goroh could be doing a lot better even in this environment (especially when looking at characters like Isaac), considering how depreciated the pool of potential newcomers are this time around.

Goroh is definitely the definitive choice if we're going for an F-Zero character if we're going for the context of the rivalry Goroh has for Captain Falcon. But sadly, the only way that Goroh is coming in if he was a clone of Takamaru.

Black Shadow:
Black Shadow is amongst the three characters far lower than every other character in this poll. This is not a surprise considering like Goroh, his last game appearance was in late 2004, and that much of his appeal lies with him gaining Ganondorf's Melee/Brawl moveset while Ganondorf gets a new one (thus the people who loved a slower, more powerful version of Falcon's moveset would still have a character that has it).

To me that sounds simply shallow, but regardless the character doesn't hold water for me.

Waddle Dee:
I think while Bandana Dee is definitely next in line for a Kirby newcomer, and that while he would make an interesting character choice, there frankly is not much interest in him (or a Kirby newcomer in general). I think if more people had played Return to Dream Land (or rather if Return to Dream Land was released earlier in the Wii's life) there would have been far more interest in him than there is now. I think he will eventually get into Smash Bros. if he continues to have roles like he did in Return to Dream Land.

I think it's mainly from the prospective of being simply a minion with a slight change of paint. For some people, that rubs them the wrong way, especially when King Dedede uses Waddle Dees as a form of offense. Still, it's the "only" choice for a lance user so... yay?

Mona:
While I think Mona is probably the most wanted possible Wario newcomer, I think its basically akin to being the tallest ******. There is just little interest in there being a Wario newcomer despite the Wario series being bigger than many of the series in Smash Bros. I think if Sakurai for some reason skips on Palutena, Mona would be one of his top picks for a female newcomer.

Well Wario Land nor WarioWare really have any characters that stick out; it's the same problem Yoshi has. Trust me, if Waluigi was classified as a Wario character, we'd be all over him immediately without question.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Manly for godtier.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Moon Monkey]

March... only 3 more months... please hurry... quench my thrist... the drought... too much...