Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[BKupa666]

That Meditation concept is also pretty sweet in that it gives Mewtwo an additional option when he's far away from an opponent. He can either behave offensively and camp with Shadow Balls or defensively Meditate to prepare a future assault.

 

[Deleted member]

I had this idea for the longest time! Good to see someone else with this same thing.

That Meditation concept is also pretty sweet in that it gives Mewtwo an additional option when he's far away from an opponent. He can either behave offensively and camp with Shadow Balls or defensively Meditate to prepare a future assault.

I'm glad to see we're all on the same page with this. This is the sort of thing I mean when I say the words "Synergy" and "Combat Strategy" just by looking at the moves, you can tell how a character is meant to flow, what their strengths and weaknesses are, what their approaches are, and how their meant to be played.

This is the sort of thing I clamor for when I talk about characters I don't particularly want, such as Pac-Man and stuff. It's much more than saying "well these are his specials." There's a unique flow to how Mewtwo is meant to be played that separates him from other characters such as Ness, Zelda and Lucario, and it's very evident.

Shame all these ideas for him fall in the same pile as Lyn, Mach Rider, Masked Link, etc... The "would be awesome, but likely won't happen." At this rate, we should just make our own game, hehehe.

Oh, btw Diddy, thinking back to your idea of Transformations based on Evolution (for Pikachu), I though of a character who's perfect for it... Vaati.

Can start out as a Simple Mage, and build up some sort of meter to get to his stronger forms. Each one being progressively stronger. Making Vaati a character who starts off as very evasive, but gets progressively more offensive. A full on Zoner all the time. The Meter can be a sort of Magic meter that is build by attacking foes (collecting souls?), but can be spent on some of his more powerful magic attacks, thus forcing Vaati players to think carefully of how they use their moves, and if a KO is worth as much as transforming to a better form. He stays transformed the whole match, and can't transform downward.

What do you think?


EDIT: I don't normally do this, but when I do....

CHECK 'EM, triple 7's baby!

Sorry, I just had to, it's my lucky number after all. Besides, it'll be 7000 posts before I can do this again.

 

[Big-Cat]

This Mewtwo sounds like a mix of Nu-13 and Tsubaki.

 

[IAm2Sarcastic4U]

With all this Eevee promotion going on lately, would you be surprised if Eevee or any of it's evolutions become a playable character in SSB4?

 

[Deleted member]

This Mewtwo sounds like a mix of Nu-13 and Tsubaki.

The charge thing is based on Tsubaki, kinda like how I did for Ganondorf. But with Mewtwo it's also a way of balancing his Telekinesis move so it's not OP. For Shadow Ball, and Teleport it just means a slight upgrade in regard to Charge Speed and Distance respectively. Aside from that, it simply gives his Command Throws and regular Grab better Psychic range.

Not sure where you get the Nu-13 thing from, though I've never played as Nu (only Lambda) and the only thing I can think of that could go for Mewtwo would be that Gravity move... Which actually wouldn't be so bad...

 

[Big-Cat]

The circular room thing reminded me of the levitation chamber thing both Nu and lamb chops have. Except Mewtwo's version is somehow scarier.

 

[Deleted member]

The circular room thing reminded me of the levitation chamber thing both Nu and lamb chops have. Except Mewtwo's version is somehow scarier.

Well, it's a long range grab, that can span quite a distance, and throw you aside. The further inside you are in the bubble the further he can throw you, so it SHOULD be Scary as, in worst case scenario, it WILL kill you.

Also, the fact that it can pick up items (Bananas, Grenades, C4's, Mines, Bikes, Armor, etc...) and projectiles (Charge Beams, Boomerangs, Fire balls), and toss them at you, SHOULD make you tremble and make you think twice before firing at him from far away enough for him to react (assuming he has full charge). Of course grabbing things from the edge of the Bubble gives him much less tossing power, so he DOES have to put himself in harms way to get best results.

Also, this is sort of a balance issue, but to avoid making this too strong, we could make it so that Meditation (PsyCharge?) Charge diminishes by itself over time (to half way, meaning you can only stay at full charge for a bit). This way a Mewtwo user can't just charge and camp, but is forced into offense when at full charge.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Red and Lucario are not going anywhere.

Well at least one of them is going, the Pokemon roster is up for some newcomers.

And we can't have Red AND Mewtwo......that is too much Gen 1 related stuff (knowing the Pikachu and Jigglypuff are not going anywhere).

With the the fact Mewtwo is coming back, it is likely for him to return. By that fact we can replace Red with Ethan (giving 4th Gen a whole new rep in someone from Heart Gold and Soul Silver). We can then have a 5th Gen in Zoroark and 6th Gen in Mewtwo, while Pikachu and Jigglypuff are Universal Gens).

 

[TheCreator]

With all this Eevee promotion going on lately, would you be surprised if Eevee or any of it's evolutions become a playable character in SSB4?

I would be a bit suprised. And I'd probably cry of happiness.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Well at least one of them is going, the Pokemon roster is up for some newcomers.

And we can't have Red AND Mewtwo......that is too much Gen 1 related stuff (knowing the Pikachu and Jigglypuff are not going anywhere).

With the the fact Mewtwo is coming back, it is likely for him to return. By that fact we can replace Red with Ethan (giving 4th Gen a whole new rep in someone from Heart Gold and Soul Silver). We can then have a 5th Gen in Zoroark and 6th Gen in Mewtwo, while Pikachu and Jigglypuff are Universal Gens).

I'm not sure you realize who the generations work.

 

[TheCreator]

Well at least one of them is going, the Pokemon roster is up for some newcomers.

And we can't have Red AND Mewtwo......that is too much Gen 1 related stuff (knowing the Pikachu and Jigglypuff are not going anywhere).

With the the fact Mewtwo is coming back, it is likely for him to return. By that fact we can replace Red with Ethan (giving 4th Gen a whole new rep in someone from Heart Gold and Soul Silver). We can then have a 5th Gen in Zoroark and 6th Gen in Mewtwo, while Pikachu and Jigglypuff are Universal Gens).

Jigglypuff is not a universal gen. There are very few of those.
Red isn't going anywhere on account of charizard.
And once again, gen representation doesn't matter.
Also you seem to be a bit confused. Because heartgd an soul silver got remakes, they aren't damn gen 4. They're still gen 2.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I'm not sure you realize who the generations work.

Well as far as I have heard, the remakes count in the gen that came before them. Fire Red and Leaf Green for 3rd Gen and Heart Gold and Soul Silver for 4th Gen.

And Mewtwo coming back could easily mean he is a Pokemon in X and Y, theoretically making him Gen 6 as well.

Either way, there is no chance of having him AND Red. With Heart Gold and Soul Silver out, give Johto another shot at a character. Make it Ethan with Chikorita, Quilava, and Feraligatr and you solve two things:

1. Giving us a new team to play as (something different)
2. Make up for the stupid rep we got two games ago for Johto, Pichu

Jigglypuff is not a universal gen. There are very few of those.
Red isn't going anywhere on account of charizard.
And once again, gen representation doesn't matter.
Also you seem to be a bit confused. Because heartgd an soul silver got remakes, they aren't damn gen 4. They're still gen 2.

1. She is close enough to it
2. Doesn't mean Ethan can't be in either, and Red isn't guaranteed either
3. Well it should because not doing so screws over good character choices (ex. Staying with only the Gen 1s)
4. Supposedly the remakes count in those gens as far as I have heard

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

So, your saying if the pokemon is in a new game, it counts as a pokemon from that gen?

I hate to tell you this, but that makes every pokemon a 5th gen pokemon

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

So, your saying if the pokemon is in a new game, it counts as a pokemon from that gen?

I hate to tell you this, but that makes every pokemon a 5th gen pokemon

I really don't know, all this stuff I hear about what is and what is not in Pokemon games confuses me to no end.

Namely the whole a remake counts as a part of that current gen, it still makes no sense to me. I count them as just the remake of the gen they are of.

 

[Deleted member]

Jigglypuff is not a universal gen. There are very few of those.
Red isn't going anywhere on account of charizard.
And once again, gen representation doesn't matter.
Also you seem to be a bit confused. Because heartgd an soul silver got remakes, they aren't damn gen 4. They're still gen 2.

At this rate, it'll likely be:
Pika
Jiggs
Red
Lucario
Mewtwo

Though I'd rather have White over Red, Charizard is overrated.

Spoiler

I had an image lying around that showed all of the supposed canon Pokemon for all the protags, but I can't find it.

 

[TheCreator]

It 'should'. Ok. Well. That's an opinion, and doesn't really change the fact that gen representation doesn't matter.
Jigglypuff is nowhere close, Eevee is a universal gen.
And I'm guessing you really want Ethan in the game?

 

[Big-Cat]

The only other Pokemon I would want is Meowth. Then, I'd feel the Poemon cast would be complete.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

It 'should'. Ok. Well. That's an opinion, and doesn't really change the fact that gen representation doesn't matter.
Jigglypuff is nowhere close, Eevee is a universal gen.
And I'm guessing you really want Ethan in the game?

I just feel Heart Gold and Soul Silver should have a character

 

[TheCreator]

It's just. The most iconic ones are from gen 1, then the newer ones are from the rest of the gens. So it's hard to represent evenly.

 

[Deleted member]

It's just. The most iconic ones are from gen 1

That's entirely subjective. Imo, Lucario is plenty iconic and he's Gen 4.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

It's just. The most iconic ones are from gen 1, then the newer ones are from the rest of the gens. So it's hard to represent evenly.

The roster will not just hardly change though, regardless of gens.

Adding one character and keeping the rest, namely for the Pokemon roster, is not really setting up much for a sequel in the series. Especially with how much change we have seen in it in the last 3 games.

 

[---]

Didn't know Generations were characters, I always thought I was playing as Pikachu and Lucario.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Didn't know Generations were characters, I always thought I was playing as Pikachu and Lucario.

You are, but they still rep a certain gen

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

And apparently both are from 4th gen

 

[TheCreator]

That's entirely subjective. Imo, Lucario is plenty iconic and he's Gen 4.

It is subjective. But to a person who doesn't know Pokemon, every one is Pikachu, squirtle, or charizard.

 

[---]

You are, but they still rep a certain gen

But which part matters? The character or the Generation they're from?

 

[peeup]

Can people stop saying "we play as characters not generations" please? It doesn't mean anything.

 

[---]

Can people stop saying "we play as characters not generations" please? It doesn't mean anything.

Second dumbest thing I've heard all day. Hyperfalcon beat you for first place.

 

[peeup]

Second dumbest thing I've heard all day. Hyperfalcon beat you for first place.

Alright then can you please explain it to me cause I honestly don't get what you mean when you say that. Not trying to be a **** here, I just don't get it.

 

[---]

Alright then can you please explain it to me cause I honestly don't get what you mean when you say that. Not trying to be a **** here, I just don't get it.

Sure no problem, it's actually quite simple, as there is no balance between generations.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

But which part matters? The character or the Generation they're from?

The character but they rep the gen

With three new games (2nd Gen Remakes, 5th Gen, and an upcoming 6th Gen) I think they would like to highlight some of those. Namely the Johto and Unova games.

 

[Deleted member]

Alright then can you please explain it to me cause I honestly don't get what you mean when you say that. Not trying to be a **** here, I just don't get it.

He means that the characters are all that matter, not generation representation. The most iconic Pokemon are from Gen 1 and are already in the game, thus are the most deserving to be playables, other gens can be represented through stages, pokeballs, etc... It's a "we have everything we need in Smash, and we shouldn't get newer reps" type mentality.

I kinda disagree with this viewpoint as it has a lot of fanwanking from Gen 1. People need to take off the nostalgia goggles for that, Gens 2, 3, 4, and 5 are all actually much better than Gen 1, and some of the designs in later Gens far outshine some of the earlier designs, even if they weren't Sugimori designs. It's just most people here grew up with Pokemon Red and Blue and Gold and Silver, and thus have a preference for those games. I think Gen 5 is plenty deserving of a rep considering it's the reboot of the series, and this is coming from the guy whose favorite Pokemon is Arcanine, a Gen 1 classic, so it's not like I have favoritism toward the new Gens.

 

[---]

With three new games (2nd Gen Remakes, 5th Gen, and an upcoming 6th Gen) I think they would like to highlight some of those. Namely the Johto and Unova games.

This sounds like another one of your Micaiah arguments, but anyway (not trying to solely direct this at you):

Previous Gen Pokemon: No indication of interest from Sakurai or TPC, and who would they pick anyway? Your personal favorite, right?

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

This sounds like another one of your Micaiah arguments, but anyway (not trying to solely direct this at you):

Well the whole previous gen thing, with certain things from the current, seems to have had an effect on the previous three Smash Bros. That is just where I get the idea from.

Thus the likes of Ethan, Micaiah, Isa, Shulk, and Ghirahim I support (on top of the fact that I actually like a good amount of the characters I have on my wishlist, they are cool characters).

 

[---]

Well the whole previous gen thing, with certain things from the current, seems to have had an effect on the previous three Smash Bros. That is just where I get the idea from.

Thus the likes of Ethan, Micaiah, Isa, Shulk, and Ghirahim I support (on top of the fact that I actually like a good amount of the characters I have on my wishlist, they are cool characters).

Sorry, I think I went I little overboard. I don't want to crush any dream rosters/personal favorite characters (except for Impa and Mr. Peepers).


Anyway my main point is that it's all about the characters not the generations.

 

[Arcadenik]

The only other Pokemon I would want is Meowth. Then, I'd feel the Poemon cast would be complete.

This. He gets it.

Even if SSB4 did get Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pokemon Trainer Red, and Mewtwo plus flavors of the month (Pichu, Lucario, Zoroark, etc.), it would still seem like there's something missing... like the puzzle is incomplete without that one piece. For a long time, I've always felt Meowth is that missing piece.

I feel the same way about Toad regarding the Mario cast.

Sorry, I think I went I little overboard. I don't want to crush any dream rosters/personal favorite characters (except for Impa and Mr. Peepers).


Anyway my main point is that it's all about the characters not the generations.

Okay.

 

[peeup]

Sure no problem, it's actually quite simple, as there is no balance between generations.

I only partly agree with that. Considering both Mewtwo and Lucario were proposed characters, I think Lucario made it into Brawl because otherwise only one of four generations would have been properly represented. In other words, putting in Lucario instead of Mewtwo offered more variety to the roster.

Though that said I do agree that it basically comes down to the character, not the generation. But if two choices are nearly equal in terms of character, getting as much variety in terms of generation is the deciding factor. Or so it would seem.

 

[---]

Okay.

Also...

I only partly agree with that. Considering both Mewtwo and Lucario were proposed characters, I think Lucario made it into Brawl because otherwise only one of four generations would have been properly represented. In other words, putting in Lucario instead of Mewtwo offered more variety to the roster.

Though that said I do agree that it basically comes down to the character, not the generation. But if two choices are nearly equal in terms of character, getting as much variety in terms of generation is the deciding factor. Or so it would seem.

I think you're starting to get it, but the bolded section is what I'm frowning at. Looking at the Brawl's data, Jigglypuff was the last Pokemon to be programmed in, technically it was her who beat Mewtwo for a spot, not Lucario or Generations (probably has to do with Jiggs being in 64 and her gameplay style).

Why is it hard for people to understand that Lucario is a popular and well received Pokemon? >_>

 

[BKupa666]

Even if SSB4 did get Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pokemon Trainer Red, and Mewtwo plus flavors of the month (Pichu, Lucario, Zoroark, etc.), it would still seem like there's something missing... like the puzzle is incomplete without that one piece. For a long time, I've always felt Meowth is that missing piece.

I don't expect Meowth to become playable at all, but, if Sakurai were to include a surprising Pokemon character, as he did with the Trainer, I think it would be him.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think it's just simple to say that Ike and Lucario were higher priority than Roy and Mewtwo because they wanted to place a higher value on newcomers and because it took longer to design a brand new character.