Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Robert of Normandy]

[citation needed]

Funny, I could say the same thing to you. You keep going on about how Impa is definatley one of the old ladies, but you've provided no proof other then "Impa looks kinda like them."

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well frankly that doesn't matter because it wasn't my argument. If Dr. Mario were to get in smah 4. He'd be two things. A retro. And a filler. A retro is something we get a new one of every game, and it certainly won't be Dr. Mario for the next game. Paper Mario is not only a newer character, because you can convince yourself that it doesnt matter who's newer, but also an important one. If Sakurai had a Mario clone in every game so far besides brawl, and one was even planned for that game, who's to say we won't get one in the next game? But the thing is. Paper Mario is like the character that Dr. Mario never was. You know. Getting console releases that get attention and bring in money? And then there's the fact that I've stated multiple times. It'd be horribly easy to incorporate a hammer and other things making him not even a clone anymore. So WHY on earth would Dr. Mario be a better addition with Sakurai looking at the facts, other than his own favoritism towards him?

Why are you presuming anybody said Paper Mario would be a clone? Nobody made that argument. I said Dr. Mario was more likely, which is actually true. And Paper Mario was not actually likely at all.

A character who was already part of the game is already more deserving of a spot objectively than a new character who Sakurai has not shown any caring towards. It's kind of obvious.

For that matter, you're acting like I don't think Paper Mario would be a good addition. I never said that once, now did I? My argument is that he's not likely, no more no less. And yes, all your arguments have been really bad so far. Sakurai does not care if they're a clone or not, as proven earlier by having clones in every Smash so far. He cares about the character themselves and if he thinks they could be a good addition. So far, Paper Mario has not shown that to him at all. Nor has Jr. Or Toad, for that matter. Only ones that aren't playable in Brawl he has shown any liking towards would be the Assist Trophies, since they actually matter in battle(more than Peach's single move), and most can move and attack.(all can attack, but a few are as stationary as Toad is)

So a character that is essentially another Charizard is rather likely as a potential newcomer. A character that has never been in the gameplay before isn't exactly more likely, and there's no way they would automatically be because of some fan's preferences. Only thing that has mattered is Sakura's preferences, and it's pretty easy to tell who he finds good choices right now. Neither happens to be Toad, Bowser Jr., or Paper Mario, unfortunately. But that's the way reality works, sometimes. You just gotta accept that fact.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I see no problem with Toad and Peach sharing a move honestly. Just make sure Toad's turpins do different stuff, like Link and Toon Link's bombs. Make Toad's turpins stronger for example.

Don't say this sort of **** never happens.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Diddy, those moves aren't actually very similar at all. They have different data output, different effects on gameplay, and very different ways of how their damage is done.

I agree that them having nearly the same move(in the case of Peach and Toad) is not an issue at all, but those moves are only similar-looking. They behave differently in just about every way.

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah, no, no she isn't.

According to Zeldawiki, her role ends as soon as the game begins. None of the Old Women in the caves are her.

#HateToBurstYourBubble

Yeah, but without Impa, there wouldn't be any NES game to begin with. No Impa? No one to tell Link to collect the Triforce pieces and save Zelda from Ganon. No one to tell Link to place crystals on statues and wake up Zelda.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Yeah, but without Impa, there wouldn't be any NES game to begin with. No Impa? No one to tell Link to collect the Triforce pieces and save Zelda from Ganon. No one to tell Link to place crystals on statues and wake up Zelda.

I never said she wasn't important at all. Just reminding you all that she never actually appeared in the first two Zelda games, just their manuals.

 

[Diddy Kong]

No, not at all. Shadow Ball and Charge Shot's only difference is the traject the projectile travels. Charge Shot is straight, Shadow Ball goes with a curve. Both are exactly as strong (25%). Same as Bowser and Charizard's flame breaths.

ALSO:

So conclusion:

Toad should use turpins.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Does peach currently pull out a giant turnip, if not...(Or even if so, really)

How about Toad uses turnips, but unlike peach can charge the turnip pull, pulling out different things depending on how long you charge it

 

[Arcadenik]

Fair enough... how about Toad picking up giant vegetables from Super Mario Advance (superhuman strength, remember) instead of normal-sized vegetables like Peach's?

 

[TheCreator]

Why are you presuming anybody said Paper Mario would be a clone? Nobody made that argument. I said Dr. Mario was more likely, which is actually true. And Paper Mario was not actually likely at all.

A character who was already part of the game is already more deserving of a spot objectively than a new character who Sakurai has not shown any caring towards. It's kind of obvious.

For that matter, you're acting like I don't think Paper Mario would be a good addition. I never said that once, now did I? My argument is that he's not likely, no more no less. And yes, all your arguments have been really bad so far. Sakurai does not care if they're a clone or not, as proven earlier by having clones in every Smash so far. He cares about the character themselves and if he thinks they could be a good addition. So far, Paper Mario has not shown that to him at all. Nor has Jr. Or Toad, for that matter. Only ones that aren't playable in Brawl he has shown any liking towards would be the Assist Trophies, since they actually matter in battle(more than Peach's single move), and most can move and attack.(all can attack, but a few are as stationary as Toad is)

So a character that is essentially another Charizard is rather likely as a potential newcomer. A character that has never been in the gameplay before isn't exactly more likely, and there's no way they would automatically be because of some fan's preferences. Only thing that has mattered is Sakura's preferences, and it's pretty easy to tell who he finds good choices right now. Neither happens to be Toad, Bowser Jr., or Paper Mario, unfortunately. But that's the way reality works, sometimes. You just gotta accept that fact.

I didn't care about most of what you said so I'm just going to respond to part of it.
You seem to think that you are correct, which, isn't a good thing to think in a thread for speculation. To prove one more thing, its quite obvious sakurai doesnt mind having clones. But he doesnt prefer having clones, and avoids it as much as he can. See: luigi from 64 to brawl, wolf in brawl, falco from melee to brawl. Regardless, somebody who believes that waluigi is the most likely isn't worth arguing with.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

This is one of the coolest ways people have shown Toads role in the games

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LWG05S30Ig

 

[Arcadenik]

I never said she wasn't important at all. Just reminding you all that she never actually appeared in the first two Zelda games, just their manuals.

Okay, I understand now... but still, you have to admit all those Old Women are copying off THE Old Woman (Impa).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@Diddy: Sorry, but I saw Lucario there, which means Shadow Ball was not what I was talking about. I was talking about Aura Sphere.

Also, I don't remember Charge Shot actually damaging people while nearby, something only Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere did. I might be wrong on that one, but that's quite a difference.

I didn't care about most of what you said so I'm just going to respond to part of it.
You seem to think that you are correct, which, isn't a good thing to think in a thread for speculation. To prove one more thing, its quite obvious sakurai doesnt mind having clones. But he doesnt prefer having clones, and avoids it as much as he can. See: luigi from 64 to brawl, wolf in brawl, falco from melee to brawl. Regardless, somebody who believes that waluigi is the most likely isn't worth arguing with.

No, he does like having clones. He still refused to actually declone the characters, just slightly making them different. Falco is still largely a clone in Brawl. Not much different from Melee at all.

And I said Dr. Mario is the most likely(which is currently true), then Waluigi, then Toad. Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. have no current likeliness factor and you haven't actually proven how they stand a chance against characters who actually do something in Smash. Either a playable role, or affecting gameplay as is.

You're confusing characters you like with any chance of likeliness. I do prefer Dr. Mario back, but that's not my basis of the argument at all. And if you think a character who has zero effect on any gameplay in any current Smash is more likely than a character who was already playable or has an actual effect in the real game, then you actually don't know what you're talking about.

I already disproved your argument, which was terrible from the start. Also, ignoring parts of people's arguments is just lame and trolling. I am correct because I base it off of reality. You're basing it off of preferences, not what actually would happen in any likely scenario.

For that matter, I'd say characters Sakurai clearly likes would be far more likely than characters who he currently has not shown any caring to whatsoever. If that's not obvious, then seriously, pay more attention to reality, not fiction.

 

[Arcadenik]

This is one of the coolest ways people have shown Toads role in the games

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LWG05S30Ig

Awesome!! This is how Nintendo should have portrayed Toad whenever Toad isn't playable in a main Mario game.

Love the bazooka, too... reminds me of Super Mario RPG.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This is one of the coolest ways people have shown Toads role in the games

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LWG05S30Ig

LOVE IT!

Spoiler

Due to obvious stoner references of coarse

Also shinpichu, I don't need a citation. I have posted pictures. It's clear to me that the Old Lady is made after Impa's artwork. Thus, most likely, she's at least one of those Old Ladies.

Zelda 1 has no story at all in the game anyway till the end. How can you proof it's NOT her?

Ok Hyper, Shadow Ball and Charge Shot are slightly more different from each other. But you cannot deny that Bowser and Charizard's Bs are the same move, and Water Gun and F.L.U.D.D are also the same thing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Diddy, those pictures don't mean a thing. Can you legitimately confirm it's her with actual proof, like say, Word of God? "Similar looks" is actually void of any real proof.

Also, Impa still only officially appeared in the Booklet. Yours is a theory, not an actual fact right now.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What does the Word of God has to do with this?

I don't know for sure, but I'll go ask Miyamoto if I happen to see him on the streets.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What does the Word of God has to do with this?

It's called proof.

I don't know for sure, but I'll go ask Miyamoto if I happen to see him on the streets.

Or you could do actual research. It's an interesting theory, but that's all you have.

Oh, and btw? The Old Woman from the first Zelda game has Yellow Hair, not White Hair. And there's tons of Old Women in Zelda II, so while it's possible maybe one of them was Impa, they even wear different colored robes, being Orange. I really don't see the similarities or proof when the artwork shows otherwise. Interesting theory, but seriously, that's all it is.

Ok Hyper, Shadow Ball and Charge Shot are slightly more different from each other. But you cannot deny that Bowser and Charizard's Bs are the same move, and Water Gun and F.L.U.D.D are also the same thing.

I was talking about Aura Sphere and Charge Shot. I never was talking about Shadow Ball, which is actually more similar to Charge Shot than Aura Sphere is.

I never talked about those other four moves, but there is a slight difference between Water Gun and F.L.U.D.D. Mario has a limited time to use it compared to Squirtle and I believe takes a bit longer to charge. I might be wrong on the charge time. I don't see a difference between Bowser and Charizard's, however. There may be, though.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

What about Zelda Historia?

It's basically the Zelda bible

 

[Watashi]

I'm gone for a day and people are arguing over Impa, Toad, Paper Mario, and clones.


I just want to say I don't care if those characters are in the game or not.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

What does the Word of God has to do with this?

I don't know for sure, but I'll go ask Miyamoto if I happen to see him on the streets.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WordOfGod

You say Impa looks like one of the Old Ladies, therefore she must be one of the Old Ladies. All you're doing is speculating; you have no proof(i.e. something from one of the manuals, or a statement from someone behind the game) we have no confirmation what you're speculating is true. It's like that thing with Carock and the wizard from Zelda 2's manual.

@Psycho

I have Hyrule Histora, and reading the sections on the original Zelda it has nothing to say on the matter.

 

[TheCreator]

@Diddy: Sorry, but I saw Lucario there, which means Shadow Ball was not what I was talking about. I was talking about Aura Sphere.

Also, I don't remember Charge Shot actually damaging people while nearby, something only Shadow Ball and Aura Sphere did. I might be wrong on that one, but that's quite a difference.



No, he does like having clones. He still refused to actually declone the characters, just slightly making them different. Falco is still largely a clone in Brawl. Not much different from Melee at all.

And I said Dr. Mario is the most likely(which is currently true), then Waluigi, then Toad. Paper Mario and Bowser Jr. have no current likeliness factor and you haven't actually proven how they stand a chance against characters who actually do something in Smash. Either a playable role, or affecting gameplay as is.

You're confusing characters you like with any chance of likeliness. I do prefer Dr. Mario back, but that's not my basis of the argument at all. And if you think a character who has zero effect on any gameplay in any current Smash is more likely than a character who was already playable or has an actual effect in the real game, then you actually don't know what you're talking about.

I already disproved your argument, which was terrible from the start. Also, ignoring parts of people's arguments is just lame and trolling. I am correct because I base it off of reality. You're basing it off of preferences, not what actually would happen in any likely scenario.

For that matter, I'd say characters Sakurai clearly likes would be far more likely than characters who he currently has not shown any caring to whatsoever. If that's not obvious, then seriously, pay more attention to reality, not fiction.

Source that says Sakurai likes having clones?
And no sir, I want paper mario. But I know that bowser jr. is more likely.
And the fact of the matter is actual since you seem to think I'm relating my reasons to fiction, Sakurai hasnt said anything about liking Dr. Mario. For the final time, he is only there as a Mario clone. That's all he's ever been in a smash game for, is to have an extra character. It has nothing to do with Sakurai 'liking' him. You've got to understand that Paper Mario, would get in before Dr. Mario. Because of there was going to be a halfhearted clone of Mario. It'd be much more appealing to be a character who gets new games and has a fan base, and can hone the title: Newcomer.
I'm done arguing with you about this, you state the same dull reasons over and over and deny anything I say is 'reality' lol

 

[FlareHabanero]

I don't see a difference between Bowser and Charizard's, however. There may be, though.

Bowser's flame is shorter but thicker while Charizard's is longer but narrower.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, all I'm saying, she's a classic. Just like Toad.

And Toad could easily share Peach's Down B.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Well, all I'm saying, she's a classic. Just like Toad.

Except Toad has appeared in basically all of the main Mario games.

Even counting the manuals, Impa has only been in 6/16 Zelda games. Not saying she isn't important at all, just that she's not on Toad's level.

 

[TheCreator]

Guys. We've combined a Zelda argument and a Mario argument and created an argument that could sicken someone's stomach.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Guys. We've combined a Zelda argument and a Mario argument and created an argument that could sicken someone's stomach.

Well, we knew that would happen. Both are big Nintendo game(part of the 'big 3' along with Pokemon') with no real clear newcomer. You tend to see a lot of Opinion Myopia within arguments for both series, so mixing them up is just a recipe for nastiness.

Though I don't think this argument was that bad.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Guys. We've combined a Zelda argument and a Mario argument and created an argument that could sicken someone's stomach.

No, we'll need Pokemon and Fire Emblem too in order to make people turn their stomachs. At this point were at the stage of nausea, so we need to go for flat out food poisoning next.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Except Toad has appeared in basically all of the main Mario games.

Even counting the manuals, Impa has only been in 6/16 Zelda games. Not saying she isn't important at all, just that she's not on Toad's level.

Sheik : 1/16

Yet people ***** at me for every time I say she should be replaced for Impa.

Point is?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well, all I'm saying, she's a classic. Just like Toad.

Hardly the same. Her only importance appearance in the actual games started at OOT. Till then, she did not do anything of note besides "give a message". That's not a vastly important role. And then she had two other meh appearances in each Oracle game, and only other truly important one in Skyward Sword.(and that's around OOT's level, not super high)

And Toad could easily share Peach's Down B.

Eh, I think he could get his own moves, honestly. He doesn't need to share it, not that he can't.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If she took that role as serious as you do, there would've been no Zelda at all.

 

[TheCreator]

I sincerely hope Pacman is confirmed in the trailer.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Sheik : 1/16

Yet people ***** at me for every time I say she should be replaced for Impa.

Point is?

You said she was just like Kinopio. I pointed out that she wasn't. I even said that I wasn't saying that Impa wasn't important, just that she's not on Kinopio's level. I said nothing about Sheik, or any other Zelda character.

The reason people give you crap is because you turn every argument involving Impa or Sheik or Zelda into something about how Sheik should be replaced by Impa. You know, like you're doing now.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, let's just say I'm a slightly difficult person.

Not always though. Just sometimes. Hence the slightly part.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This isn't even about Impa in Smash and you know it. It's about her appearances in the Zelda games. She only actually appears in 4 games, and only is in two Manuals instead of the games. She has a lackluster amount of appearances to be compared to Captain Toad.(I'm using this as the English name for Kinopio) And to be frank, doesn't have that much more importance, if more important at all.

It's a bad comparison. Really, she's on the same level as Tingle when it comes to importance. Necessary to complete the game, not favored among a huge amount of people overall. Impa might be more comparable, to say, Kamek in importance, though.

 

[Watashi]

Tingle is at least memorable IMO

 

[TheCreator]

http://m.ign.com/articles/2012/07/18/the-road-to-namco-bandais-super-smash-bros

Also. Tingle has his own series. Pfft

 

[Deleted member]

This is one of the coolest ways people have shown Toads role in the games

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LWG05S30Ig

Something about that flash animation just never sat well with me.

The animation itself is brilliant, and fights are well done. I also caught a glimpse of those subtle One Piece references (The way Mario readies his arm for a punch is identical to Luffy's and his arm even stretches, Luigi also does a Gatling move with the same animation as Luffy's Gatling move). However, the art style just strikes me the wrong way... It feels like it tries too hard to be edgy and cool with the drug references, it's rather unnecessary and takes away from what could have been amazing.

Oh well, it's the artist's preference, the animation is top notch though. I love those key frames and perspective shots.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Tingle is at least memorable IMO

That's true. He has for more appearances and does stuff in more games in general. And you know, has his own games. However, he only had storyline importance in one game, which is why I find it the same level of Impa right now of overall importance.

He was majorly key in Wind Waker. And rather important in Majora's Mask too.

Impa only had two important games. She played a lackluster role in Zelda I/II and the Oracle games. Messenger isn't a real role of importance. It's only for small-bit players.

 

[Watashi]

That's true. He has for more appearances and does stuff in more games in general. And you know, has his own games. However, he only had storyline importance in one game, which is why I find it the same level of Impa right now of overall importance.

He was majorly key in Wind Waker. And rather important in Majora's Mask too.

Impa only had two important games. She played a lackluster role in Zelda I/II and the Oracle games. Messenger isn't a real role of importance. It's only for small-bit players.

I also don't think ether should be playable. I'm just saying Tingle at least left an impression. Impa was pretty generic in every game she appeared in.