Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[Johnknight1]

^^^ Yes to more beards, no to a Toon Link beard... unless we get an adult Toon Link. Maybe Skyward Sword Link could use a beard...

I really don't think them being excited about each others games means anything like that

This seems like an "Until now" situation here

Agreed. This is just needless PR that we're gonna blow up because we don't know what is going on behind the scenes!

I know everyone here thinks we got the pool of characters that could appear in the unveil trailer down pat, however, I never saw Zero Suit Samus and Snake coming before Brawl's unveil.

I think if Sakurai has a really "out there" newcomer, there is a good chance he/she/it will be in the Smash 4 trailer.

I think characters like Shulk, Paper Mario, Dixie (despite some hype), Saki, perhaps a freshly unveiled Gen 6 Pokémon, and a plethora of retro characters would fit that mantra.

 

[Big-Cat]

Nah, Lyn was the most recent (aside from Miciaiah and the Sacred Stones twins), easily the most popular character, and the 1st "real" Western Fire Emblem character introduced.

That's like saying 3rd place is the winner if you put 2nd and 1st aside.

 

[FlareHabanero]

That's like saying 3rd place is the winner if you put 2nd and 1st aside.

Still, 3rd place is a lot better then dead last.

 

[N3ON]

Agreed. This is just needless PR that we're gonna blow up because we don't know what is going on behind the scenes!

This. I'm really not looking forward to how much this will be taken out of context.

I think characters like Shulk, Paper Mario, Dixie (despite some hype), Saki, perhaps a freshly unveiled Gen 6 Pokémon, and a plethora of retro characters would fit that mantra.

I don't think characters brought up as often as Shulk, Paper Mario, Dixie, Saki, or a 6th gen could really count as an "out there", unexpected newcomer in the same vein as ZSS or Snake (or Pokemon Trainer or ROB - though they weren't in the trailer). A totally out there newcomer would have to be a character that gets brought up very rarely and isn't expected, and those ones, even if not at the top of the list, are fairly common choices. Sure, they might not all be trailer material, but them showing up wouldn't be too unbelievable. Real "out there" newcomers are almost impossible to correctly speculate on IMO. However, a retro other than Takamaru, Balloon Fighter, or Mach Rider could make for a good unexpected choice.

 

[Croph]

^^^ Yes to more beards, no to a Toon Link beard... unless we get an adult Toon Link. Maybe Skyward Sword Link could use a beard...

I made these in 10 minutes.

[collapse=Beardz]

[/collapse]
Yes, uh, something like that, but better. My pipe dreams.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Pit with a beard look weird. You know, since he's supposed to look like a 13 year old, despite being like over 25+ years old due to being an angel.

 

[TheCreator]

MUDDY MOLE

 

[Oasis_S]

Beards are meant to be Shaved.

 

[FlareHabanero]

MUDDY MOLE

Well, we do need more cabbage users on the roster.

 

[Johnknight1]

That Link beard is LEGENDARY!!! But still, why don't you have a beard in that photo=??? Beards/goatees make everything better!

That's like saying 3rd place is the winner if you put 2nd and 1st aside.

It means at least Lyn is getting medal'd in the Olympics, or at least may get considered in Smash.

This. I'm really not looking forward to how much this will be taken out of context.

It already has. Expect it to get not just taken out of context, but BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION! "OMG! POKAMAN DEDUMBFIRMED FROM SMERSH BRAHSSSS!!!"

I don't think characters brought up as often as Shulk, Paper Mario, Dixie, Saki, or a 6th gen could really count as an "out there", unexpected newcomer in the same vein as ZSS or Snake (or Pokemon Trainer or ROB - though they weren't in the trailer).

I didn't think Zero Suit Samus was that out there. Heck, I thought Pit was just as "out there," and Snake easily topped them both. I felt ZSS on top of being a surprise character, ZSS was also a "totally unique and unconventional" style of character. I consider Shulk, Paper Mario, Saki, and Dixie to be exactly that (I'm not sure about a Gen 6 Pokémon). Think about it: nobody would really play quite like any of those characters I just mentioned if they live up to their potential.

Also, you have to consider not everyone is expecting those characters, and very few people actually actively speculate about who will get in (about the same amount of smash fans who attend tournaments, actually). All of the non-Big 4 of Mario have fallen off the radar, Saki's series seems dead, Dixie is overshadowed by K. Rool, and Shulk still isn't well-known outside of hardcore fans.

As for a new 6th Generation Pokémon, what if they had been first shown for Pokémon a few months before=??? That'd be NUTS to think they'd go from just being shown to the world to being in smash, and few would see it coming, especially that early.

A totally out there newcomer would have to be a character that gets brought up very rarely and isn't expected, and those ones, even if not at the top of the list, are fairly common choices. Sure, they might not all be trailer material, but them showing up wouldn't be too unbelievable. Real "out there" newcomers are almost impossible to correctly speculate on IMO. However, a retro other than Takamaru, Balloon Fighter, or Mach Rider could make for a good unexpected choice.

Takamaru is in the same category as the characters I just mentioned. Balloon Fighter and Mach Rider were already considered, so they wouldn't be "totally out there." Actually, I think the new Pokémon idea is totally out there, considering nobody mentioned the idea of a new Pokémon being confirmed after being publicly shown for the 1st time. That'd be a Pokémon Trainer-esk move nobody would see coming!

 

[Arcadenik]

I think Duck Hunt Dog is a pretty cool guy. Eh, trolls NRA and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[~automatic]

To me Dixie seems too irrelevant at this point.

 

[Arcadenik]

To me Dixie seems too irrelevant at this point.

The hell she is. Dixie Kong is very relevant to the Donkey Kong series. Just because she wasn't in the latest Donkey Kong game doesn't make her irrelevant to the whole series.

 

[Johnknight1]

To me Dixie seems too irrelevant at this point.

That's what was said of Diddy Kong back in the day...

It's not like Dixie didn't almost make it in a previous Smash Bros. game...

 

[Diddy Kong]

That's what was said of Diddy Kong back in the day...

It's not like Dixie didn't almost make it in a previous Smash Bros. game...

Hurrr durr he wasn't in Jungle Beat. Hurrr durrr he would be a Donkey Kong clone. Hurrr durr durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... Stupid monkey can't fight. Hurrr durrrrrrrr



Those where some times.

 

[N3ON]

It already has. Expect it to get not just taken out of context, but BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION! "OMG! POKAMAN DEDUMBFIRMED FROM SMERSH BRAHSSSS!!!"

I can see why Sakurai gets pissed off every time he tweets something that we turn into this.

I didn't think Zero Suit Samus was that out there. Heck, I thought Pit was just as "out there," and Snake easily topped them both. I felt ZSS on top of being a surprise character, ZSS was also a "totally unique and unconventional" style of character. I consider Shulk, Paper Mario, Saki, and Dixie to be exactly that (I'm not sure about a Gen 6 Pokémon). Think about it: nobody would really play quite like any of those characters I just mentioned if they live up to their potential.

Also, you have to consider not everyone is expecting those characters, and very few people actually actively speculate about who will get in (about the same amount of smash fans who attend tournaments, actually). All of the non-Big 4 of Mario have fallen off the radar, Saki's series seems dead, Dixie is overshadowed by K. Rool, and Shulk still isn't well-known outside of hardcore fans.

I think Chrono was (and at least I was) referring to the "out there" characters as ones not largely expected by anyone, not unique and unconventional characters, because I agree, many Brawl characters do fit into the latter while only four (IMO) fit into the former, and only two from the trailer. I agree Shulk, PM, Dixie, and Saki all could be unique and unconventional, but I don't really see how they'd be any more unique and unconventional than other newcomers (sure they'd be less expected than some newcomers, but many more characters are even less-expected than these. Honestly these four are relatively towards the top of the likelihood list, they wouldn't really be surprising). Also, I think we measure "out there" characters by speculator standards, not really casual standards, as then only like Wario wouldn't have been totally "out there", maybe Meta-Knight.

And by casual standards, pretty much every potential character other than like Bowser Jr, Waluigi, Ghirahim (they still think he's gonna get in), Zoroark, Little Mac, and maybe Ridley and Mega Man would be "out there".

As for a new 6th Generation Pokémon, what if they had been first shown for Pokémon a few months before=??? That'd be NUTS to think they'd go from just being shown to the world to being in smash, and few would see it coming, especially that early.

Actually, I think the new Pokémon idea is totally out there, considering nobody mentioned the idea of a new Pokémon being confirmed after being publicly shown for the 1st time. That'd be a Pokémon Trainer-esk move nobody would see coming!

As soon as a feasible Pokemon (it wouldn't really even need to be that similar to Lucario/Zoroark body-wise, just feasible and clearly promoted by Game Freak/Pokemon Company) people will jump on that character's bandwagon as quickly as they did for the fifth gen, and even if it's only a few months before the trailer, by that time the character would have a sizable fanbase, and its unveiling wouldn't be too "out there".

Takamaru is in the same category as the characters I just mentioned. Balloon Fighter and Mach Rider were already considered, so they wouldn't be "totally out there."

I know, that's why I said a retro other than those three.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Mach Rider is pretty cool and stuff. But wouldn't count on too many retro characters this time either. They MIGHT add enough with just Takamaru. And if you wanna count Little Mac -which you shouldn't- he'll most likely be in to.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Pac-man...

 

[FlareHabanero]

As much as people take it for granted, I still feel as though Takamaru would be a perfectly fine addition to the roster. It would be like adding a new flavor to an old twist, so to speak.

 

[Moon Monkey]

That's how I view Lil Mac. He'll be the Balrog of SSB4

(After seeing WindwakerHD i can't wait to see how characters will look)

 

[BKupa666]

Hurrr durr he wasn't in Jungle Beat. Hurrr durrr he would be a Donkey Kong clone. Hurrr durr durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... Stupid monkey can't fight. Hurrr durrrrrrrr



Those where some times.

Hurr durrrrr, the franchise is fine with just DK. Hurr durrrrr, Diddy missed his chance in Melee. Hurr durrrrr, Nintendo Tokyo said he wasn't fresh.

I think those are all of the anti-Rare anti-Diddy (and, by extension, K. Rool/Dixie) arguments, yes?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hurr durrrrr, the franchise is fine with just DK. Hurr durrrrr, Diddy missed his chance in Melee. Hurr durrrrr, Nintendo Tokyo said he wasn't fresh.

Hurrrr durrrrrrrr DK's just Mario series anyways...... Duuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.....


I'm surprised we're not getting as much of that stuff for K.Rool.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Tiki > King K. Rool

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I didn't say it was guaranteed all those characters you listed wouldn't be excluded. I just said the other three were much more likely.

If you're arbitrarily going to exclude the categories that make up over half the amount of new series added in Melee and Brawl, then the new series percentage would be even less (1/3 and 2/6 -- 2/14 and 2/18 respectively) and it would be even more unrealistic to expect more than this ratio for SSB4. Why would the ratio change now? It's not like the unrepresented series are now in general more "deserving" than the remaining character from existing series.

But basing your entire viewpoint and every argument you make on a small chance like this is misguided.

Yeah, including unrepresented retro series and unrepresented 3rd-parties.

Saying it's unrealistic and saying it's impossible are two different things. If I said the roster was going to have 70 characters that'd be unrealistic, right? Even before the trailer came out, that'd be an unrealistic thing to say.

And 8 series is likely going to be over half the amount of newcomers, so relegating the existing series to less than half of the newcomers is without precedent and unrealistic.

Obviously you missed the great Mario character arguments of the old days. They were as heated as Pokemon/FE discussions are now.

1. Yes, I see that. Maybe we could get all of them though.

2. It is not that they deserve it, it is that Smash Bros still needs more franchises repped.

3. I can agree on this. But I want to say one thing, we can't considered anything Sakurai says as final unless he is showing the game while he does or is presenting it in a Nintendo Direct/E3 Conference (where he has to say what is actually happening).

4. 70 is too much, sure. But it is not like a lot of people are realistically thinking that. I still believe 45-48 is the right number.

5. It is not necessarily me ignoring the already repped franchises, it is me giving a couple of newer ones a chance to get in.

6. That would have been interesting to see. How exactly did it go down?

 

[TheCreator]

I'm not even sure what the current discussion is about lol

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

I believe this is reasonable and realistic:

Balloon Fighter (Balloon Fight)
Little Mac (Punch-Out!!)
Mii (Wii Sports)
Shulk (Xenoblade Chronicles)
Takamaru (The Mysterious Murasame Castle)
Villager (Animal Crossing)

Animal Crossing, a game that is NOT about fighting, over Golden Sun and Sin & Punishment, games that are?

 

[3Bismyname]

Animal Crossing is a far more notable series. i personally dont see the appeal but it is very popular

 

[Croph]

I'm not even sure what the current discussion is about lol

Who knows. As long as we, the Smash players, are united in this awesome social thread, our bonds will never break. Discussions will keep on flowing as long as the Earth keeps on spinning. Spinning and breathing new life...

An Animal Crossing rep would be funny to see...Chopping people with axes...Pulling out furniture from pockets to throw at people, eating fruit...

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Animal Crossing is a far more notable series

Yes, but it is not needed for a FIGHTING GAME.

An AT of Tom Nook, or anyone, would be better.

 

[3Bismyname]

Yes, but it is not needed for a FIGHTING GAME.

An AT of Tom Nook, or anyone, would be better.

Sup

 

[TheCreator]

I'm pretty sure Sakurai feels the way DragonSniper does about animal crossing, with all the representation it had in brawl it surely would have had a character if that were considered plausible.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

Sup

Both Fox and Captain Falcon are trained for fighting though. One is a bounty hunter and the other is the captain of a space force (who fight on the ground as well).

Dr. Mario is just another version of Mario, who fights the likes of Goombas and Koopas. A costume change doesn't change who he truly is. Plus, if it did, he still fights viruses.

The only one of those that fits is ROB.

The villagers from Animal Crossing are just that, villagers. They fish and buy stuff. They DO NOT fight.

On the other hand, Isa, Saki, Adult Isaac, and Matthew have have weapons/magic and can do physical fighting as well.

 

[3Bismyname]

Both Fox and Captain Falcon are trained for fighting though. One is a bounty hunter and the other is the captain of a space force (who fight on the ground as well).

Dr. Mario is just another version of Mario, who fights the likes of Goombas and Koopas. A costume change doesn't change who he truly is. Plus, if he did, he still fights viruses.

The only one of those that fits is ROB.

show me the proof in the game that shows Fox and Falcon can fight. simply stating that a character can fight isnt proof that they can fight. hell they didnt even say they can fight. u just assume that because of their professions may can fighting

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

show me the proof in the game that shows Fox and Falcon can fight. simply stating that a character can fight isnt proof that they can fight

Fox from Adventures and Assault.

Captain Falcon from the comics for the SNES game, the anime, and cutscenes in GX.

It all goes into their professions, a bounty hunter and a space pilot.

A village is just a villager.


While the likes of Isa, Matthew, Isaac, and Saki can be inlcuded with the likes of Fox and Captain Falcon. Some know magic (Psyenergy) and others use gun-swords. They CAN fight.

 

[3Bismyname]

before their introduction in Smash Capt Falcon was the only one who maybe had any proof of fighting cause of thecomic. but realize that nothing in that comic was used for his moveset. literally nothing from that was used.

 

[Johnknight1]

I can see why Sakurai gets pissed off every time he tweets something that we turn into this.

I think he's secretly (not secretly to us) a great troll, and enjoys his job as a troll. It's like he's leading the idiots astray so us intellergent people can debate in peace here.

I agree Shulk, PM, Dixie, and Saki all could be unique and unconventional, but I don't really see how they'd be any more unique and unconventional than other newcomers (sure they'd be less expected than some newcomers, but many more characters are even less-expected than these. Honestly these four are relatively towards the top of the likelihood list, they wouldn't really be surprising).

They wouldn't necessarily be surprising, but they would be nice additions. At this point in time with all of the "big names" previously playable (except for Dixie, K. Rool, and a few 3rd party characters), there are few surprises left that speculators like us haven't mentioned as a potential possibility.

Also, I think we measure "out there" characters by speculator standards, not really casual standards, as then only like Wario wouldn't have been totally "out there", maybe Meta-Knight.

If Meta Knight is "out there," then comparatively the long-forgotten Dixie Kong and the (Brawl aside) irrelevant Saki are "out there." Now if we want to get further "out there," the characters you list here fit that label IMO.

And by casual standards, pretty much every potential character other than like Bowser Jr, Waluigi, Ghirahim (they still think he's gonna get in), Zoroark, Little Mac, and maybe Ridley and Mega Man would be "out there".

I don't think most non-internet speculating folks expect Ridley or even Little Mac, though.

As soon as a feasible Pokemon (it wouldn't really even need to be that similar to Lucario/Zoroark body-wise, just feasible and clearly promoted by Game Freak/Pokemon Company) people will jump on that character's bandwagon as quickly as they did for the fifth gen, and even if it's only a few months before the trailer, by that time the character would have a sizable fanbase, and its unveiling wouldn't be too "out there".

I still think people would be surprised to see said Pokémon confirmed so fast.

I know, that's why I said a retro other than those three.

I missed that part I guess. Sorry, my mind is kinda "wooooh" feeling as I still have the flu, so my mind is working kinda funny, lol.

Back on topic, how about Bubbles from Clu-Clu Land=??? Not just is that out of the blue, it makes no sense!

 

[3Bismyname]

i like the idea of Bubbles. i was a huge fan of Clu Clu Land

 

[Croph]

Back on topic, how about Bubbles from Clu-Clu Land=??? Not just is that out of the blue, it makes no sense!

Aww, I love Clu Clu Land as well. Bubbles is adorable. It would be nice if she makes an appearance somehow.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Bubbles for AT?

 

[Johnknight1]

2. It is not that they deserve it, it is that Smash Bros still needs more franchises repped.

We play as characters, not franchises. The question is not "which franchise should get playable characters" but "which characters DESERVES to be playable in smash bros?"

We judge that question with how important said characters are (to their respective franchises [such as being the main character], and possibly Nintendo or gaming history), whether said characters bring something new to the table, what new things said character possibly brings to the table, how said characters balance out the roster, and above all else, how much said character makes people want to play the forthcoming game when they are announced, and how much they keep wanting people to play them years and years to come.

Aww, I love Clu Clu Land as well. Bubbles is adorable. It would be nice if she makes an appearance somehow.

I loved the game, and I would personally love to see Bubbles, in true Clu-Clu Land form, be an Assist Trophy character, bouncing off things and grabbing edges.