Roster Discussion Thread (Closed)

[SmashChu]

My problem with the term "shoo-in" is that, it's thrown out there too liberally. Even if a character seems to have everything going for it (like people assumed with Ridley pre-Brawl), it still boils down to one thing, if Sakurai thinks the character is worthy of an inclusion. That is something that we won't know until a character is confirmed/deconfirmed for the game. Granted, I can understand why people consider K. Rool, Mewtwo, and even Palutena to be a shoo-in since they have so much going for them and their problems are miniscule in comparison, but I have a hard time seeing anyone else under the same position. It's more of my problem, but that's how I feel.

As for whom I'm willing to bet on, I consider anyone I feel is 95% certain to be in the next game to be of a relatively safe bet, even though I feel there are no shoo-ins. Right now, I would say those two are K .Rool and Mewtwo (and I am seriously willing to bet on their inclusions, $20 for both).

That's a good way to think. There will be a lot of characters we expect that wont get in and a lot of people will set themselves up for disappointment. This will be especially true towards the end.

I have a problem with the word "shoo-in" because it looks like it should be "shoe-in." Y'know, like a shoe in the door. I mean, since when do you shoo things in. You always shoo things AWAY, not in.

So dumb.

You have a way with words Oasis.

 

[Deleted member]

That's a good way to think. There will be a lot of characters we expect that wont get in and a lot of people will set themselves up for disappointment. This will be especially true towards the end.

I have to agree. Personally, I don't care if people expect as many characters as they want in Smash as disappointment is likely inevitable in some areas of he game. As for me, I'd be lying if I said I didn't have high expectations for the roster (especially given that my desires for other parts of the games are mostly unrealistic and will probably not happen), but I'm not going to throw a hissy fit if Mega Man were to not show up.

 

[Phaazoid]

I just refer to characters I really want in the game as shoe-in's to piss everyone else off

 

[BKupa666]

I think the disappointment over Brawl stemmed more from the size of the roster, rather than the actual characters. Remember back when every Brawl roster was at -least- 45 characters large? Yeah, we're not falling for such mindless optimism this time, and I still have no clue how speculators at the time bought into that mentality.

Some popular characters have to become playable, or the game won't sell well. Some of the characters we call shoo-ins are very popular. Thus, while the term ought to be used in extreme moderation, I do not feel it is unreasonable to do so.

 

[Phaazoid]

I just hope no time is wasted on a long single player mode this time around >.>
Imagine how much extra multiplayer stuff we coulda had without it...

I hope that the online is worth something this time as well.

The only reason I refer to Zoroark as a shoe in is because the pokemon reps in smash have always revolved around poplularity (pika, jiggly, mewtwo, lucario) and I don't see that changing. When I use shoe in, I more mean that I would be legitimately surprised to see them not appear playable, not that I think they have 100% chance. *shrug*

 

[Jaedrik]

So, "Anti_ssbb" in the WHOBO stream chat had a dream last night that Mankey was in SSB and he was a Mankey main. Bratwurst (my official replacement for bro), Mankey thread right now, go, 1000 more responses than the Ridely thread, he's gonna get in. MANKEY FOR SSB4!

 

[Reika Kitami]

Mankey? I just can't picture him as a playable character.

 

[BKupa666]

Manky...Kong! He's a shoo-in if Sakurai ever decides to clone Lanky, his orangutan cousin.

 

[Deleted member]

This is my final prediction for this game and all slots are locked down. The only one that was difficult to leave behind was Saki, which if I were to add another slot, I would add him. Everyone else I have my reasons for adding or not adding them to the roster.

Also went through the prediction thread. Literally the only one that I felt who's roster didn't have any scenario that was almost guarantee to not happen was ---'s roster, which is something I can't even say for N3ON and Starphoenix's roster (though they came very close but each had one thing that really keep me from adding them to the list). Not saying that all other prediction rosters are bad as there were some seriously good prediction rosters, but I think the final roster could very well end up being similar to ---'s roster (I'd say mine as well, but I'm biased and have changed my prediction roster a ton over the past year and two months).

...then again, no one is going to guess this roster correctly, though if I'm wrong and someone in the roster display thread does get it 100% right, then I think they deserve to be honored for such accuracy for the rest of Smash speculation history.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Manky...Kong! He's a shoo-in if Sakurai ever decides to clone Lanky, his orangutan cousin.

Manky should have his own set instead of copying Lanky Kong. Cloning in general is very lazy from a developers standpoint.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Manky...Kong! He's a shoo-in if Sakurai ever decides to clone Lanky, his orangutan cousin.

I don't know why I never implemented them into my Adventure Mode plot as basic enemies. I guess the thought heavily slipped my mind.

 

[BKupa666]

Something I'd like to see in Adventure Mode are fights against reskinned characters. Basically, they're the same character vs. character fights we slogged through completed in the SSE, but with the enemy character having the costume of a nonplayable character, like Manky. So, in essence, we'd be having a DK vs. DK battle, with the enemy having a Manky costume (that could be unlocked after the fight to boot).

 

[Deleted member]

Apparently, the director of the Tales series wants a character in Smash

Doesn't mean much, but someone has to bring this here.

I hope this doesn't happen. The Tales franchise does not warrant a character.

 

[Phaazoid]

This is my final prediction for this game and all slots are locked down. The only one that was difficult to leave behind was Saki, which if I were to add another slot, I would add him. Everyone else I have my reasons for adding or not adding them to the roster.

Also went through the prediction thread. Literally the only one that I felt who's roster didn't have any scenario that was almost guarantee to not happen was ---'s roster, which is something I can't even say for N3ON and Starphoenix's roster (though they came very close but each had one thing that really keep me from adding them to the list). Not saying that all other prediction rosters are bad as there were some seriously good prediction rosters, but I think the final roster could very well end up being similar to ---'s roster (I'd say mine as well, but I'm biased and have changed my prediction roster a ton over the past year and two months).

...then again, no one is going to guess this roster correctly, though if I'm wrong and someone in the roster display thread does get it 100% right, then I think they deserve to be honored for such accuracy for the rest of Smash speculation history.

You also have to remember wtf appearences. Nobody predicted PKMN trainer in brawl. I mean, I was in support of Charizard of a character, but I didn't think there was half a chance for another first gen pkmn, let alone 3. Through my own personal bias, I can't see your roster at all. In my opinion, a second kid icarus rep instead of a new pokemon rep is ludicrous (mewtwo is an OLD rep, not a new one) Megaman is a bit of a leap, and two new DK reps may be pushing it.

I mean, I agree with a lot of your inclusions being likely (ridley, krystal, gorah, mach rider, isaac)

but in the end it's not how likely characters are that is going to get us wrong. It's how we interpret and mis interpret Sakurai's bias of how much of andwhat should be in. There's also third party and legal brokerage that can mess with us too, sonic may very well make an appearance again, as well as snake even. (snake was in the last game because not only was sakurai friends with the guy, but the guy wanted snake in smash)

So at best even the most educated guesses we have I can only realistically see as 50% accurate. Sure, some lucky guy may get most of it right, but between WTF inclusions and things stated above I doubt anyone will guess 100%

 

[BKupa666]

I doubt there is a game developer out there that -doesn't- want one of their characters in a series as successful as Smash Bros. Just add these clowns to the list of no-hopers, alongside the guys from Suda 51.

 

[Jaedrik]

Apparently, the director of the Tales series wants a character in Smash

Doesn't mean much, but someone has to bring this here.

I hope this doesn't happen. The Tales franchise does not warrant a character.

Why didn't you make a thread, bratwurst? That's some exciting news.

I meant Mankey the Pokemon, but eh, yeah, sure.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Why didn't you make a thread, bratwurst? That's some exciting news.

I meant Mankey the Pokemon, but eh, yeah, sure.

No, it doesn't warrant it's own thread. It would most likely be locked; regardless if it's exciting or not. As well, there is a News thread in the Smash 4 Discussion forum.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I tried to access that link, but it's considered to be dangerous, based on my SiteAdvisor software.

 

[N3ON]

Also went through the prediction thread. Literally the only one that I felt who's roster didn't have any scenario that was almost guarantee to not happen was ---'s roster, which is something I can't even say for N3ON and Starphoenix's roster (though they came very close but each had one thing that really keep me from adding them to the list). Not saying that all other prediction rosters are bad as there were some seriously good prediction rosters, but I think the final roster could very well end up being similar to ---'s roster (I'd say mine as well, but I'm biased and have changed my prediction roster a ton over the past year and two months)..

Wow, I'm surprised you only found one thing unlikely on my roster. Just for me to make it as realistic as possible, what was it? If it was the inclusion of Pac-Man, don't worry, I've got another version of my roster that I haven't put up yet and he's not on it. If it was something else, I'd be very eager to hear.

As for your roster, it's (of course) very good, and the only thing I find unlikely to happen is the inclusion of both Takamaru and Mach Rider. Unless, I suppose, you count Takamaru as a revived retro.

 

[Deleted member]

I tried to access that link, but it's considered to be dangerous, based on my SiteAdvisor software.

Huh? Then again, I posted that from my iPhone, so I wasn't aware of such things.

 

[Starphoenix]

My roster's perfect, don't know what you're talking about. The only thing it was lacking is Krystal, but I finally decided to swap out DS for Krystal like my heart was telling me to do.

 

[FlareHabanero]

You're only making it worse by going with Krystal...

 

[Deleted member]

My roster's perfect, don't know what you're talking about. The only thing it was lacking is Krystal, but I finally decided to swap out DS for Krystal like my heart was telling me to do.

Adds your roster to my very short list of "rosters with no almost impossible scenarios" with that swap. Trust me when I say that I will very rarely find such a roster.

I was mainly talking about how impressed I was at ---'s prediction roster. There are some disagreements I have there, but nothing unrealistic I see. As for your roster being perfect, we're all entitled to believe that a roster that a person creates is perfect to his/herself. It's just that other users are allowed to critique a roster (goes for everyone, myself included).

I'm going to post this roster on GameFAQs in a hour or so (after preparing Day Sixteen of Rate and Discuss Their Chances). Should be interesting to see how they feel about my "final roster".

@N3ON: Yeah, Pac-Man was my main problem. Curious to see how your next roster turns out.

 

[Starphoenix]

The problem I have with most everyone's roster is that they are too large. My roster, as condensed as it is, is a total of forty-eight characters, and even then it might be too much.

My perspective has changed on a lot of things, primarily Assist Trophies. I'm also beginning to reconsider the idea of cuts from the roster.

 

[BKupa666]

My roster is a rather controversial one, hence me refraining from posting it thus far (that and laziness with the images). It involves cutting not only Ike and Lucario, but Wolf as well, a character who I would like to stay and who has every reason to stay, but that may find himself on the chopping block due to circumstance.

Depending on whether or not Sakurai looks at Krystal's Brawl popularity, which existed despite decreasing sharply since 2007-8, along with any complains about Wolf's "clone" nature from those who don't know better, there is a slight, yet existing chance that he gets the chop. He was one of the last added to Brawl, so I am preparing myself for the possibility that he will be one of the first to go.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm not worried about Wolf going anywhere, because there is no reason for him too. However, I do see Toon Link, Solid Snake and Sonic the Hedgehog possibly receiving the boot (Sonic the Hedgehog less so).

 

[Deleted member]

Regarding cut possibilities, is there any chance such a thread could be allowed to be created? Could serve us well to have a community, however much cuts suck, especially now.

If we do receive cuts, the only ones I could see as having any realistic chances of going are Snake, Sonic, Toon Link, and to a lesser extend Lucario. Toon Link I could see being replaced by Young Link if Sakurai wants to put extra focus on returning Melee vets (which is doubtful outside of Mewtwo and Roy), but I only see Lucario going if he is a victim of time constraints, which I find even less likely due to a theory I have.

However, I really do think that Snake and Sonic have a very serious chance of being axed. They are third-parties, which already lowers their chances and very rarely do they ever come back. I have a feeling that it will be the case again for this game. Now them being highly popular within the Smash community does give them a fighting shot, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[---]

Well I am flattered, I have been thinking about making some trims here and there. Mostly is the size I have it because of most of the other Toise betting rosters are the same size. I literally added Zoroark just for the heck of it (either was it or Krystal).

As for the chop block (IMO): Snake, Sonic, Child Link, and some Non-Main character Pokemon, all in no particular order nor for silly things like relevancy.

 

[BKupa666]

Mewtwo's cut removed most of the security I have felt characters added late into Brawl, like Wolf, would have otherwise had, because all of the "why would he NOT return" arguments could have been applied to him as well. Granted, he hails from a much more competitive series, but still...

 

[JPW]

I'm actually on the verge of seeing Krystal as an assist now. The Staff does give possibilities but i've looked back at her history and in retrospect she's probably a starfox rep..... sorry clone we can do without.

also starphoenix i a agree. 48 is a good number, and it's basically how far i've been going as of late. 48 i usually i can come up with.

 

[Jaedrik]

Okay, how about we have an Ice-climbers like custom slot, and we choose from anyone in the roster? The only thinks they'd have to change in the characters is their recoveries for the dual recovery, I would love to have M.K. and G-dorf as an IC pair :D

 

[JPW]

for some reason i do see Namco taking a page out of Tekken and creating some single player tag team action.

ie you know in their Tekken games they have tag team combos and such. I could see that playing a part in Smash. Where we meet be able to switch our characters in and out.

 

[Deleted member]

@JPW: I think by 48 characters, he is including transformations with it.

 

[JPW]

I always see them as 1 main character rather than 2 or 3 characters then.

Lately i've been breaking it down to a 47 character roster though. It's actually 52 if you count the extra PT pokemon, ZSS and Sheik.

I might still remove Lucario though i'm not sure. I believe he is a cut, but i think popularity and the fact the pokemon fanbase is very vocal apparently when you cut certain pokemon characters out.

 

[Starphoenix]

In case no one else has seen the latest news, take a look.

Masahiro Sakurai, the man behind the Super Smash Bros. franchise, has teased what fans can expect from the next entry in the series.

Up until now very little has been revealed about the as-yet-untitled Smash Bros. game planned for Nintendo's Wii U and 3DS, aside from the fact it's being developed by Namco.

We've already seen how a number of games plan to integrate the Wii U's GamePad, but we've yet to hear how the fourth instalment of the all-star brawl 'em up will do the same. While Sakurai wasn't ready to reveal everything, he explained to IGN that the company was looking into ways that worked specifically with Wii U's new hardware, explaining "The GameCube controller is not the only way to control Smash Bros., so we will look into ways that fits the Wii U."

Previous entries in the series have offered a fairly robust selection of control schemes, so it makes sense the next game will do the same. But while Sakurai admits the company needs to adapt to incorporate new controller options, he's adamant the rest of the game doesn't need to change to remain fresh. Having had three very successful entries in the franchise, the Project Sora boss feels the series has found its target audience, meaning introducing gimmicks would hinder rather than help the brand.

"The game system itself is complete, so we don’t want to make it 3D or introduce complicated controls just for the sake of it," he said. "However, I am thinking of ways we can introduce a slightly different, fun experience all the while keeping the usual frantic game play."

Quite what this different experience may be is unclear, though we've previously reported rumblings about Tekken cameos, which would certainly shake things up. The chances of this actually coming to pass, though, seem quite remote, especially with Sakurai being unconvinced by the idea.

"I think Snake and Sonic joining were fantastic. It made many fans happy, and it broadened the Smash Bros arena," he said. "However, introducing more non-Nintendo characters willy-nilly will lose the focus of the game, so I also recognise the need to narrow it down."

Super Smash Bros. 4 is in development for Wii U and 3DS, with a release expected sometime in 2013.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/07/masahiro-sakurai-talks-super-smash-bros-4

Sakurai finally discussed Solid Snake and Sonic the Hedgehog a little bit. I'm getting the impression there is a good chance they might be returning.

 

[BKupa666]

Okay, here's my roster in text format:

MARIO FRANCHISE: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Bowser Jr.
Jr. has a sizable fanbase (that actually wants him playable, unlike the Japanese Toad fanbase) and can be given either a unique or cloned moveset...a flexible character in every sense of the word.

DK FRANCHISE: Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool
Moving right along...

LEGEND OF ZELDA FRANCHISE: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf, Child/Toon/Young/Potato Link
I don't believe an unpopular or one-shot will be shoe-horned in for the sake of filling slots. Although Ganondorf and Toon Link might receive some moveset changes, this series remains rather stagnant.

METROID FRANCHISE: Samus/ZSS, Ridley
Obvious selection is obvious.

YOSHI FRANCHISE: Yoshi
. . .

KIRBY FRANCHISE: Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede
Bandana Dee is tossed around for the same reasons as Waluigi: "He'd complete the RtD four!!" He has an outside shot, but I'll believe his likelihood when I see him confirmed.

STAR FOX FRANCHISE: Fox, Falco, (Wolf OR Krystal)
I want to believe that Wolf is going to stay, but I really doubt the series will receive four characters. Of course people will say a character they don't want to see leave has no chance of leaving, but when you consider that Wolf was such a last-minute addition to Brawl and thus might not be that high on the priority list of veterans to carry over, the chance of him getting clipped (possibly for a moderately "popular" female) still exists.

POKEMON FRANCHISE: Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Pokemon Trainer, Mewtwo, Zoroark
I've concluded that Mewtwo will be brought back over Lucario, since he has more importance to the series as a whole than the newcomer who was selected to represent its latest generation at Brawl's time. It's unrealistic to think that Pokemon will not receive a newcomer when Pokemon Company is as involved as it is, having the opportunity to promote a new Pocket Monster. Though Mewtwo, Lucario and Zoroark can coexist, I definitely don't expect Pokemon to receive EIGHT characters in a game that "has reached its limit" balance-wise.

MOTHER FRANCHISE: Ness, Lucas
Lucas -could- get cut, but there aren't any Mother characters of his caliber to fill his shoes (Porky would be awesome, but an impossibility due to it being "probably impossible" for Sakurai to animate when matters like "fleshing out" the SSE are far more important).

F-ZERO FRANCHISE: C. Falcon, S. Goroh
I'll flip a coin here and say Goroh gets in, hopefully to help promote the first F-Zero game in almost a decade.

FIRE EMBLEM FRANCHISE: Marth, (Ike OR Roy), Krom
Likewise, a new Fire Emblem representative has a strong chance, while Roy is apparently popular worldwide because of how superb his character is...pah. I would hate to see him edge Ike out, but I don't think the series' number of slots will double overnight either, and Ike is the most expendable character out of him, Marth and Krom.

RETRO CHARACTERS: Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, R.O.B., (new character, Takamaru as placeholder)
Only including popular characters "doesn't excite" Sakurai, and he's "the luckiest man in the world" because he gets to revive retro characters. Takamaru seems most likely to get the nod at this point, though any reasonably old one-shot, like Mach Rider or Balloon Fighter, could do.

WARIO FRANCHISE: Wario
. . .

KID ICARUS FRANCHISE: Pit, Palutena
Though I despise her being labeled a massively popular shoo-in mere months after she even became a viable choice (taking over for Medusa, if you will), she's the go-to character if Sakurai doesn't become modest, which he won't, because like with Kirby for Brawl, he'll consider this the last chance he has to work with the character he helped design.

NEW SERIES CHARACTERS: Little Mac, Saki
Little Mac is a very, very obvious choice. Saki is a somewhat less obvious, but rather viable selection as well. Additional slots may go to any of Isaac, Shulk, Muddy Mole, Starfy, etc., but I think these two have the most priority, and space is tight.

THIRD PARTY CHARACTERS: Snake, Sonic, Megaman
After how popular Snake and Sonic became, I think Sakurai will at least attempt to negotiate with Konami and Sega for their returns. The companies would never say "No, maybe they shouldn't appear this time," so them getting clipped would be Sakurai's decision alone, and considering he added Sonic so late in Brawl because of the predicted backlash his absence would cause, I think he's smart enough to keep them in to avoid even more of an uproar. Megaman is pretty much universally agreed upon as the third third-party character, even by the Capcom execs that seemingly ignore him, and Sakurai has mentioned the possibility of Capcom characters. Pacman could become playable as well, but I want to wait and see how much influence Namco has on the project before making that call.

This brings my total to 50 characters, counting transformations. If Wolf/Ike are kept playable, that leaves in 40 veterans and 10 newcomers, while if one or both are not, the make-up changes to 38/39 veterans and 11/12 newcomers.

EDIT: Yes, the interview supports my confidence in Snake/Sonic, and confirms my doubt in less important, filler third party characters (Slime, Layton, Travis Touchdown, Tales characters).

 

[---]

Saw that interview yesterday, haven't had time to take a good look at a it yet. Nice to see there's some relation to Iwata Asks as well as some of the 3rd party talk we've had going on in the Discussion Groups.

the Project Sora boss feels the series has found its target audience, meaning introducing gimmicks would hinder rather than help the brand.

I myself find this part also pretty interesting as well. lol

 

[N3ON]

I'm glad he's said something positive about the third parties, because honestly the amount of people here who thought they would be cut perplexed me. Granted, this doesn't confirm their return, but this is a huge point in their favor and I'd say the chances are greater they return than not.

It also seems to confirm that Sakurai has no interest in adding multiple Namco characters (which I am relieved about), so if we even get a Namco rep, it will probably be limited to just one. I still think Megaman has a better shot though.

And I think they're being overly optimistic with a 2013 release date, but with a large portion of Namco working on it, who knows.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I still say that the game will be released during the holiday season in 2014. That is at least 2 3/4 years of development to handle, which sounds reasonable in my eyes for a typical development cycle.

 

[Starphoenix]

I spent the night going over, and laughing, at the old NeoGAF Super Smash Bros. Brawl DOJO thread. There were a lot of people convinced Saki and Grey Fox were going to be playable or play some important role in the SSE because of their DOJO descriptions. Found that interesting. Sonic reveal was absolutely hilarious to relive. lol

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