Roll Cancel Grabs

[Signia]

Wait so you just roll and then press A? I'm super tired and don't get what the OP is saying haha, forgive my idiocy.

Edit: Fun Fact
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[B0NK]

I just saw it done out of a back roll on vgbc.

You saw wrong, you can do a turnaround forward roll. You cannot do this with a back roll. The input of Back > R > A from standing will never give you a back roll.

 

[Thinkaman]

I just saw it done out of a back roll on vgbc.

Are you sure? I'm sitting here doing the inputs frame-by-frame in training mode, and it doesn't work. Grab-cancelled forward roll works consistently, and is easy to identify.

 

[B0NK]

Except that you can do this out of block, not just dash.

No you cannot, unless you mean dropping your shield first then inputing this? You cannot do this OoS.

 

[Thinkaman]

Oh, you can do it out of back roll! But you can't do it OoS or dashing.

 

[Signia]

Oh, you can do it out of back roll! But you can't do it OoS or dashing.

Lol I don't get this game. Not being able to do it after getting a full shield I understand, but there should be no reason you can't do it out of dashing. oh and someone on reddit said you could do it out of skid. How about Walking?

 

[YourOpinionIs]

Has anyone tried this technique with Samus? Normal samus, not zero suit samus

 

[B0NK]

Oh, you can do it out of back roll! But you can't do it OoS or dashing.

Are you sure that the back roll wasn't a turnaround forward roll?

Also you can't do it out of dashing, but you can during the dash let the circle pad return neutral then immediately input it to get a similar effect.

 

[Thinkaman]

Lol I don't get this game. Not being able to do it after getting a full shield I understand, but there should be no reason you can't do it out of dashing. oh and someone on reddit said you could do it out of skid. How about Walking?

You can do it while walking (naturally, same state as standing for all purposes).

You can't do it while dashing, because you cannot roll while dashing. You can shield, and then roll, but you cannot directly roll. (And this cannot be done OoS)

You cannot do it while skidding or pivoting. In the early parts of these states, you cannot block or grab (except pivot grab).

 

[Philycheesesgt]

lets fight

 

[Thinkaman]

You can also do it out of dash dance, in case that wasn't assumed/confirmed.

 

[Signia]

You can do it while walking (naturally, same state as standing for all purposes).

You can't do it while dashing, because you cannot roll while dashing. You can shield, and then roll, but you cannot directly roll. (And this cannot be done OoS)

You cannot do it while skidding or pivoting. In the early parts of these states, you cannot block or grab (except pivot grab).

Didn't know most of this. It'd be nice if we had a state diagram we could refer to...

 

[Thinkaman]

BTW, if anyone missed it, DACUS is indeed in the game. Good luck doing it on a 3DS in 1x speed though!

I can't do it with Sheik for some reason, even frame perfect. But I can do it with Little Mac, Jigglypuff, Falco, and others.

This distance isn't much, less than the good ones in Brawl, but nontrivial.

 

[icraq]

just messed with it a tiny bit, rosalina can do a pivot grab standing still with this out of a fox trot or anything, in the direciton she's facing

just do a backroll and a quick turn around grab, it gains considerable range (the standard pivot grab range) from a standstill position, i'd guess other characters share this property

edit: nvm just messed with it a bit more and realized im just doing a fast pivot grab, apparently if you do it quick enough you can do it standing still. has nothing to do wtih roll canceling i dont think.

 

[kataridragon]

This is good tech nice find.

Zss, Sonic, Mac, and a Wario just got better.

Sheik seemed unchanged. Mario and Ganondorf were slightly better.

Lite testing.

 

[Eji1700]

Greninja seems to benefit nicely, as his forward throw leaves them at almost the perfect range for a followup, and gives him a better mixup after it now.

I hate that this is another silly tech, but it's at least easy to pull off and enhances the offensive game.

 

[CookingMama]

It doesn't seem to add very much range to falcon, if any. That being said, since it's so easy to do it, it probably wouldn't hurt to add it to autopilot just in case.

 

[TL?]

Tried a few characters out. These character seems to travel about the same distance as their dash grab:
Marth
Lucina
Shulk
Ike
jiggs
lucario
pikachu
toon link
metaknight

ZSS goes farther but it's really only a little farther than her dash grab. It seems like people are forgetting how far that reaches normally. Little mac's is by far the most noticeable of all the one's I've tried. Wario definitely gets a solid boost. Robin seems to get a small but significant boost as well!

I think using this with samus is actually shorter than her dash grab. My guess at this point would be characters that move the fastest during their roll will make the most of this.

 

[otter]

this should be funny for rosalina since her roll is a teleport.

 

[B0NK]

It unfortunately is not any different looking lol. All teleport rolls get canceled before the teleport animation.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

It unfortunately is not any different looking lol. All teleport rolls get canceled before the teleport animation.

Thank god

 

[Savez]

My guess at this point would be characters that move the fastest during their roll will make the most of this.

Yeah I've tried a few char myself and it seems this might be the case. I don't know how useful this will be but it's nice to know it exists

 

[dddragon]

After testing, I found that you can actually slightly stagger pressing R (whatever your shield is) after a dash to get even more range for the roll cancel grab, just like you can dodge immediately after starting a dash animation. For example, if you roll cancel grab with Greninja, your roll cancel grab will be shorter than dash cancel grab. Instead, you can dash, cancel the dash into roll cancel grab, and gain more range than Greninja's dash cancel grab.

You can also change when you cancel the dash into a roll cancel grab -- there are definitely multiple frames to cancel dash into roll cancel grab, so the roll cancel grab range is actually variable depending on your timing.

Dunno if people already knew this, just a note that it's possible to dash (cancel) roll cancel grab.

 

[AvariceX]

I was having some trouble getting the timing for this at first, but then I found that (I think) you can use both grab buttons (one slightly delayed after the other) to make the timing a little more lenient (like plinking in Street Fighter). Not sure if this is a placebo or if it actually works.

You can also do it out of dash dance, in case that wasn't assumed/confirmed.

This is shaping up to be a pretty technically demanding game already. I love it.

 

[dddragon]

I was having some trouble getting the timing for this at first, but then I found that (I think) you can use both grab buttons (one slightly delayed after the other) to make the timing a little more lenient (like plinking in Street Fighter). Not sure if this is a placebo or if it actually works.

I don't think you end up with two inputs (like with plinking where you're aiming for the same input happening twice in two frames), but it's similar in that you have to quickly press one button after another. You can use both grab buttons if it's easier for you -- I use R -> A.

 

[HdTyvek]

does this only work with little mac? or will it be available for all characters?

 

[AvariceX]

does this only work with little mac? or will it be available for all characters?

All characters. Little Mac just gets one of the most noticeable boosts from it. WFT's roll cancel grab is really good as well.

 

[assosiaan2014]

Does it work the same for characters with a tether? Sorry if this has already been asked, but like with ZSS?

 

[Remzi]

So glad this doesn't work OoS. The nerfed grab ranges in this game make shield pressure a lot safer. This is a purely offensive option, awesome find!

 

[dddragon]

Does it work the same for characters with a tether? Sorry if this has already been asked, but like with ZSS?

Yes.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Works well on wft.
Shield Monado Shulk is better with it.

 

[Ganreizu]

So glad this doesn't work OoS. The nerfed grab ranges in this game make shield pressure a lot safer. This is a purely offensive option, awesome find!

It not working directly OoS doesn't mean it can't be used OoS. Did you forget that dropping shield is insanely fast in this game?

 

[Remzi]

Thats still adding anywhere between 10-12 frames to the process (7 for shield drop, 3-5 for initial dash before roll). If you could do it directly OoS, some characters would be able to effectively shield grab pretty much any landing aerial.

 

[B0NK]

In a game with 1 frame jabs, every frame from shield drop makes the difference lol

 

[dddragon]

Pivot roll cancel grab has a much higher grab range than a normal pivot grab (and a normal grab), which is odd. You're even moving away from the opponent when doing a pivot roll cancel grab, so it doesn't make sense to me that the range is increased.

edit: At least, this is definitely true for Bowser. I'm not really seeing a difference with Captain Falcon. I guess the game thinks roll cancel grabs are effectively dashing grabs, and dashing grabs have a higher range?

 

[Blueman12]

This helps Robin sooooooo much. Unbelievably so. It helps Greninja too but i think he doesnt really need it. He's crazy fast enough as is :/

 

[TastyCarcass]

On some characters you're better off just running at them and grabbing. Diddy is like this.

It is definitely awesome on Mac

 

[TastyCarcass]

Ok, it seems that whenever you press R then grab immediately after a dash, you do this move.

The range seems to depend on the length of the characters side roll.

On some characters, Diddy, DK and Luigi, it seems like just going for a running grab is a better idea.

I think it's the same with Robin, sorry Blueman.

I'm trying to find characters that it actually helps with. Will update if I find any.

It seems to help on Zero Suit Samus, since it cancels the dash into a grab, when usually the grab only commences once the dash has finished.


Edit: I can't get it to work on Samus and Yoshi, it may be because of the pivot style grab, or maybe their rolling

Edit Edit: I've tried this on many characters and this tech doesn't seem to be worth doing over just running in and grabbing them. There might be some frame differences and you can do it to get the star to appear for swag reasons, but I don't think this is a useful strat

 

[Chex-Mex]

Haha, found this in the demo and actually took a vid of it, but never posted. Glad someone else did...
Liking the quick evolution of the techs on smash 4! Can't wait for wiiu.

 

[B0NK]

k