ROB's Bag of Tricks (New Discovery? 8-13-11 Post 61)

[8Bitman]

True.

I always try to Dash Dance when I kill my opponent, because if I trip during it that means there's less of a chance for me to trip when we are fighting that stock.

 

[-LzR-]

That is faulty logic but it works :D

 

[8Bitman]

Yesirydoodah it does work. =P

 

[Zwarm]

So through learning more about Lucario, I learned about this technique that all characters with charge attacks can use. It's called Charge Canceling, and it basically skips the shield process out of a charge, and can lead into any attack. It's performed by tapping shield out of a charge, and perform the action you want, almost at the same time.

Here's the video of Lucario performing the technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20h488IePbA

And here's a video of Ninjalink performing it with ROB during an actual match. He's apparently been doing this since 08/09. XD: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=A40ZTaX6RNA#t=83s

 

[CT Chia]

Wow, I'm mad salty I didn't know that lol, really useful

time to start utilizing it

 

[Zwarm]

I feel the same way, haha. I'm gonna practice it up now.

 

[ccst]

How do you do it? Because it's awesome!

 

[stingers]

just lightly hit shield instead of holding it basically. this is really old lol

 

[phi1ny3]

just lightly hit shield instead of holding it basically. this is really old lol

No kidding, this is like at least a year old.

All the cool kids are doing buffered shield special canceling (snake and Lucario are studs).

 

[Mister Eric]

regardless of whether it's 1000 yrs old or not, im glad it was contributed. thx zwarm<3
don't let meanies like these beepos keep you guys from posting anything and everything useful for rob.

 

[stingers]

i am conspiring to keep ROBs metagame from advancing from behind the scenes

mwahahaha

 

[sneakytako]

You *** stingers lol.

 

[stingers]

no but really how did y'all not know this lol...w/e at least you know now =]

 

[ccst]

I think I've found a new technique with R.O.B. which is very simple to do. I know it may not be that useful but everything is good to know for further development, and sorry if this's old.

1). Have the gyro in hand.
2). Do the Arm Rotor in the air (if you do it in the ground nothing happens except it being gone and comming back).
3). You see that your gyro now is gone for a very short period of time - and you do an aerial instead of throwing it if you attack with either the C-stick or A-button (before you get it back). I haven't tested mix-ups but I just wanted everyone to know about it. You can probably do it with other items as well.

Another thing; you can glide longer with the Arm Rotor easier is you short hop and immediately do a Fair and buffer the AR.

 

[-LzR-]

I havent heard of it before but unfortunately it is too telegraphable to be useful

 

[ccst]

I think so too. =/

 

[Mister Eric]

Hmm, idk if you guys have noticed, but if you full hop and side b at the same exact time, it seems that rob gets some mad hops.

So mayhaps you could throw this in to space out from the opponent first but looking vulnerable and then do your trick next as they are prob approaching to "punish" you

Edit: btw, I will have time to update this thread after next Tuesday. I'm super behind in school lolz

 

[-LzR-]

I think it's old information that sideB increases your jump a little. Or did you mean something else?

 

[Mister Eric]

No, I meant that. And I'm pretty sure it is old news. But this is the place for old news and new news so I figured I'd throw it in xD
but yeah, if it helps out ccst's find, then go for it ^_^

 

[Mister Eric]

Working on some "new" spike setups will post vids when I polish it and have time

 

[Mister Eric]

I know this is a triple post, but I'm not sure where else to post this because even though it's universal, I'm super happy at what it does for ROB.

For some odd reason, like how I stumble across most things, I was mucking around in training mode when I made this "discovery."
And this is probably known already (I don't see how it wouldn't be), but, in case you weren't aware, you are able to cancel your initial dash animation with a dodge roll. And at first I'm like "that's kind of cool...I guess..."
I just couldn't seem to think of anything practical for it. But after a few minutes of pondering, something came across my mind...

For a while I have been practicing doing a weak gyro glide toss and recatching the top. And as much of a technical ROB player that I am, the input just always felt awkward to me and I never felt comfortable doing it. Here's a video demonstrating that first (it's the first I had ever seen):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2DwjTTTvQA&feature=channel_video_title

In the video's description, Luckylime maps out how this is performed:
"1. Hold the shield button
2. Tap the control stick right/left
3. Release both the shield and stick to return them to the neutral position
4. Press A or Z (to do a standing throw which goes a shorter distance, but still achieve a slide)
5. ????
6. PROFIT. "

Here's t0mmy's version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87JXA4ftMrw&feature=channel_video_title

The trick was not holding over when you input A or Z to toss the gyro because if you didn't know already you can throw items at two different speeds or w/e (which you can see for yourself by standing still and tossing with both C-stick and neutral A and comparing the difference).

Anywho, that was very hard for me to do. t0mmy wasn't too fond of it either I remember because it hurt his wrists or something when trying to be consistent about it (might not bother him now, idk). Now this is where my initial stumble across the dash cancelled dodge roll (DCDR) "discovery" comes into play.

If you begin the DCDR into a weak glidetoss, this allows you much more time to let your control stick go back to neutral before you need to input the weak toss. Making this technique much easier.

So this time the order of the sequence is as follows:
1.) Dash, but release the control stick.
2.) Press shield to initiate a dodge roll.
3.) Press A to toss the gyro.
-You should be performing a weak glidetoss at this point-
4.) Have fun.

Thoughts?
Already knew about the DCDR or w/e the real name, if there is one, might be?
Let me know.
Hope this is helpful and/or interesting to anyone.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

This is what I did a while back regarding weak glide tosses and recatches

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=292704

Maybe you can expound on this or we can collab or something? Anything to keep the Gyro spinning.

 

[Mister Eric]

I didn't really think this involved buffering tho...
Just an easier series of inputs which results from interrupting the initial dash animation.
Please correct me if I'm wrong as I probably am.
And thank you for showing me this thread again. I rly like your posts.

EDIT:
I feel dumb and misread the context of "This is what I did."
Sorry bro.

Will definitely see what I can get out of your always awesome posts =]

 

[8Bitman]

New discovery, new mix-ups, I likey. =3

I never bothered to learn the Weak or Soft Glide Toss as you call it. It looked too hard, and while it can help immensely in a match I don't want to have to rely on me doing it 100% of the time.

But I will definitely practice this, because if you do it right every time you are 101% GUARANTEED the grab every time. Because your opponent will always shield the Gyro, giving you time to grab. And as soon as they shield you're already in their face. Hell you can even try to read a Side-Step and combo them out of it. =3

 

[Mister Eric]

Also, has anyone ever considered charging the gyro up to the point right before it's finished? That way you can still b-rev (when you gyro cancel, it adds no additional charge) and you can also gyro cancel on the ground in a sense. I've been doing this lately and seeing success from it.

 

[T0MMY]

I like the post about dashing prior to Glide-tossing, maybe that will help out my poor wrists (which is why I rarely do a soft GT).

The partial-charged Gyro does help. Sometimes it's easy to forget when it is not fully charged and try to shoot it and end up charging it for a moment, so remember to keep in mind how much it is charged.

 

[8Bitman]

Also it really isn't anything but try dashing to the left and then Glide Tossing to the right. Or vice versa. Or dashing forward and then Glide Tossing backward but throwing the Gyro forward. It is like an extremely fast fake-out. LOL

 

[ccst]

Also, has anyone ever considered charging the gyro up to the point right before it's finished? That way you can still b-rev (when you gyro cancel, it adds no additional charge) and you can also gyro cancel on the ground in a sense. I've been doing this lately and seeing success from it.

Does it get stronger just like Donkey Kong's 9-wind? I've tried that but I think a fully charged gyro is much stronger.

 

[Mister Eric]

Does it get stronger just like Donkey Kong's 9-wind? I've tried that but I think a fully charged gyro is much stronger.

It does not work like a 9-wind, but that wasn't the point. The point was, charge it to the point where it's almost charged. What this does for you is allow you the option to mindgame a gyro cancel on the ground because when you press down-b again, it will then fully charge the gyro and you will go back to your normal, standing state. From there, you can do whatever.

 

[8Bitman]

I guess that is a mind game but I have received just as much of success by running away reversing it on the ground, and then just simply shielding to cancel it whenever I want.

Remember you do not air dodge if you do it after a certain period of time. You will just simply stop charging and then you can instantly dash like you would if you guys do like you are talking about. Plus I guess in a sense you would have to time it and you might be a frame off which speed is everything in this game. If you do what I am saying you have more control over it and you can charge/grab/attack/etc. your opponent more freely, and quickly. =3

Just saying I feel the charging of the Gyro until almost full is a wasted effort when you can phuck with your opponent even more by standing in front of them for an extended amount of time charging a Gyro making them think they are going to have to time a power shield when in reality you are just going to charge them with a grab whenever you like. =D

Again sorry if it sounded rude just speaking meh preference and what I felt works better. ^_^



EDIT:!!!! Also just to clarify on the "Weak-Glide Toss", Is it basically just you Glide Tossing with "A" instead of "Z"??? Because I have done it multiple time in a match and it was fairly easy like I never even went to training mode to practice timing, although that would help it. The move is pretty basic and it is awesome! =3

 

[Mister Eric]

I guess that is a mind game but I have received just as much of success by running away reversing it on the ground, and then just simply shielding to cancel it whenever I want.

Remember you do not air dodge if you do it after a certain period of time. You will just simply stop charging and then you can instantly dash like you would if you guys do like you are talking about. Plus I guess in a sense you would have to time it and you might be a frame off which speed is everything in this game. If you do what I am saying you have more control over it and you can charge/grab/attack/etc. your opponent more freely, and quickly. =3

Just saying I feel the charging of the Gyro until almost full is a wasted effort when you can phuck with your opponent even more by standing in front of them for an extended amount of time charging a Gyro making them think they are going to have to time a power shield when in reality you are just going to charge them with a grab whenever you like. =D

Again sorry if it sounded rude just speaking meh preference and what I felt works better. ^_^



EDIT:!!!! Also just to clarify on the "Weak-Glide Toss", Is it basically just you Glide Tossing with "A" instead of "Z"??? Because I have done it multiple time in a match and it was fairly easy like I never even went to training mode to practice timing, although that would help it. The move is pretty basic and it is awesome! =3

^
It's a mindgame to make them approach you.
It gives you the option to grab out of it and forward smash, and jab, and tilt, and fair, and bair, and nair, and ultilt, and final smash even final smash (lol) at a quick rate unlike when you simply cancel with your shield and only have a quick shield > grab or some dodge option.
The other option is fine too. This is just another option. Neither is better rly. Simply a mindgame.
Why gyro cancel mindgame in the air if you're not going to do it on the ground too?
;P

and to clarify on weak glide tossing, you need to make sure that when you glide toss, with the gyro, that you're able to recatch it. I mean if you're doing what t0mmy and whoever was in luckylime's vids were doing, then I suppose you're doing it fine. But it's thought of to be a pretty hard tech to master so I'm somewhat skeptical if you're saying you can do it easily unless you practiced it down to muscle memory hardcore. and both Z and A toss at the same rate when you dont have the control stick held over. the point is to input Z or A (not A instead of Z because either works fine) when the control stick is either neutral or when the stick is barely tilted (just enough to initiate a roll). and that can be hecka hard because when you begin a glide toss, your stick is probably held over when you decide to toss the gyro which results in a strong toss instead of a weak one.

 

[stingers]

alright so I just practiced Weak glide tossing for awhile. heres what I got out of it:

- the name "weak" glide toss is a misnomer...the thing that is "weak" about it is the throw animation itself, not the length of the glide toss (cuz I like totally thought that it was the latter until I tried it...lol).
basically when you glide toss normally you do the smash throw because you always have to smash your stick out of shield to roll to cancel it. you can only do the weak glide toss when your stick is at neutral.
the easiest way to do this is to just flick the stick lightly enough to start the dash but not too hard. like you want to flick so it doesnt go past the halfway point of the distance from the neutral point to the edge of the other side.

go like that far. maybe a little less.

then instantly press shield and a to get a full glide toss length, but a weak throw.
this will move you halfway across FD (roughly) and you can instantly press a at the end to regrab the gyro.

pros:
great shield pressure, since you dont have to regrab the gyro, its just useful as a movement tool.
this means you can grab them, or bait a spotdodge and punish with fsmash or dsmash or something.
also this gives good momentum for up-b!
so you can go flying all the way across the stage with it.
its really cool.

hmm...
i have some other things im working on but im not sure if they're legit yet so I'll wait about those.

but weak glide toss is actually pretty useful since it moves you so far across the stage WITH a projectile out in front of you, but unlike normal glide toss with the laggy smash throw animation, this lets you act pretty much right away. the only thing to worry about is them insta throwing the gyro back at you, but it should take a bit for people to get used to this anyway lol.

 

[Mister Eric]

the easiest way to do this is to just flick the stick lightly enough to start the dash but not too hard. like you want to flick so it doesnt go past the halfway point of the distance from the neutral point to the edge of the other side.

I still found this to be more tedious than just cancelling the initial dash animation with a roll and turn that into a glidetoss like I mentioned in post #61

The reason I find it easier to cancel the dash animation is because it lets me stay in my glidetossing comfort zone. I'll elaborate.
By inputting a dash first, you can already have the stick in it's neutral position by the time you even hit shield to cancel the initial dash animation into a roll. From there, you just do the weak glide toss input, which for me is simply A. This keeps me in my comfort zone because I don't have to keep transitioning from tediously (feels that way to me) trying to tilt the stick to do a weak glide toss, and slamming the stick over to do a normal glidetoss. To me, it's a headache.
This way, by cancelling the dash animation into a roll, you have a larger time window to allow the control stick to return to its neutral position before you input a toss.

Thoughts?
Make sense? (It does in my head, but I usually have a hard time getting what's up there out with words.)

 

[Zwarm]

I can't test this because I'm in class right now, but can't you roll by shielding and using C-stick? Wouldn't that just make it easier to weak glide toss? Set your unused shield button to attack, and it would function as A, and you don't have to worry about the control stick not being in the neutral position.

Ignore this if this sounds dumb, I just seem to remember C-stick making you roll while in shield.

EDIT: Nevermind, I forgot when you have an item in your hand, it makes you throw it out of shield, instead of rolling.

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

Hey ROB boards

I still found this to be more tedious than just cancelling the initial dash animation with a roll and turn that into a glidetoss

I'm fairly certain stingers is doing the same thing, he's just elaborating on the exact timing of everything.

I'm trying to learn this AT right now, and I gotta say, I think this gives ROB a lot more potential when he has the gyro in his hand. Traveling immediately next to the gyro severely limits your opponent's options, as unlike with the standard glide toss, the lag from the throw gives your opponent time to shield and react to whatever you do as a followup to the toss. With this, if your opponent decides to shield, you can punish with a grab. If they spot dodge, punish with a smash. If they jump, punish with an upsmash or u-tilt. Heck, even regrab and string into an upward glidetoss. Once I get the timing down, I'm going to work on stringing multiple weak glide tosses together. If this works as I imagine, a gyro in hand could give rob a ridiculous amount of mobility.

Something I've noticed when trying this: I feel like you have to hit 'A' slightly after shield to get this to work just right. I mean reeeally shortly after, to the point where it's almost simultaneous. Maybe it's in my head, or maybe it just has to do with the fact that you have to push the 'R' button down a little more than other buttons before it actually registers a button-press signal. Just a thought I figured Id put out there to anyone having the same problems I do.

Quick question: If you try this in the direction opposite the one you're facing, are there extra frames in the dash startup to account for the turnaround? I can't tell, but it feels like the timing is different for a turnaround WGT

 

[Mister Eric]

Hey ROB boards



I'm fairly certain stingers is doing the same thing, he's just elaborating on the exact timing of everything.

I'm trying to learn this AT right now, and I gotta say, I think this gives ROB a lot more potential when he has the gyro in his hand. Traveling immediately next to the gyro severely limits your opponent's options, as unlike with the standard glide toss, the lag from the throw gives your opponent time to shield and react to whatever you do as a followup to the toss. With this, if your opponent decides to shield, you can punish with a grab. If they spot dodge, punish with a smash. If they jump, punish with an upsmash or u-tilt. Heck, even regrab and string into an upward glidetoss. Once I get the timing down, I'm going to work on stringing multiple weak glide tosses together. If this works as I imagine, a gyro in hand could give rob a ridiculous amount of mobility.

Something I've noticed when trying this: I feel like you have to hit 'A' slightly after shield to get this to work just right. I mean reeeally shortly after, to the point where it's almost simultaneous. Maybe it's in my head, or maybe it just has to do with the fact that you have to push the 'R' button down a little more than other buttons before it actually registers a button-press signal. Just a thought I figured Id put out there to anyone having the same problems I do.

Quick question: If you try this in the direction opposite the one you're facing, are there extra frames in the dash startup to account for the turnaround? I can't tell, but it feels like the timing is different for a turnaround WGT

To comment on Stingers approach to doing it...Nah he's doing it differently than my proposed method which I feel is either being completely ignored, misunderstood or both lol. Basically, Stingers approach is to do the same Glidetoss input that everyone knows and loves but with one slight modification:
Not slamming the control stick over, but eversocarefully tilt the stick to do the glidetoss which results in a soft/weak toss instead of a hard/strong one. Because if you notice, when you do a regular glide toss, you are strong tossing because you are holding your control stick all the way over instead of tilting it like in the diagram Stingers displayed.

My method, which apparently isn't well known aside from a few particular characters make use of it, bypasses what I consider the tediousness of weak glidetossing and allows you a larger time window to input everything.
It allows you to bypass tilting and lets your put the stick over (which initiates the dash, which requires you to NOT TILT which rules out that Stingers is doing it my proposed way).
It allows you to pretty much make the same glidetossing inputs, just in a different order.
I'm not saying my method is definitely better, though I feel it is.
I just want people to try it out, consider it, and go from there. I will do anything I can to help people avoid confusion. Even make a video if I must.

Also, with your question...I'm uncertain. I'll have to try it out.

 

[stingers]

your method can only be done out of a foxtrot cant it? or am I misunderstanding it

 

[Mister Eric]

Not rly I don't think.

Just go to training.
Set to 1/4 speed.
Input a dash.
And a few frames later input the shield button which cancels the initial dash animation into a roll.

Then you can prob see what I'm talking about.

What this allows is, you to input the side control stick input early, so that you have a less margin of error to weak glide toss.
So here's the sequence:
Control stick left or right (to dash), but just flick it instead of holding it over so the stick can go back to neutral.
Immediately shield (to roll)
then press A to weak toss
and you should be doing the weak glide toss!

Trying to do it the traditional method makes it super duper hard if you don't tilt the stick like you're trying.
But I even find tilting the stick painful to do b/c it's out of my comfort zone.
Instead, if you cancel your initial dance animation with a roll, your control stick can get back to neutral much quicker and as long as it's back to neutral before you input A to toss, you will weak toss the item.

 

[CJTHeroofTime]

Oh, I thought stingers was trying to describe the method you describe (which is the best, without a doubt) because never mentioned being in a shield before tilting it, so I assumed that when he said "dash" he meant...dash, and not dodge roll

 

[stingers]

i think we're using the same method lol...u just flick it rly fast, and I just tilt it rly fast.